SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[VeevaVee]

Not to nitpick but labour were in rule when soldiers were sent to Aghanistan and Iraq for the ‘war on terror’.

That part would be politicians in general

 

[Ludens the Red]

We are just going to recreate the worst thread of last year(The UK general election thread). It's pretty clear from Boris past comments and voting record why a certain part of the population won't care about his current health situation.

Haha, yeah let’s not do that.. has been done to death.

That part would be politicians in general

To nitpick again, you did say “his party”. But yeah they were all to blame for that debacle but it was still under Labours reign.

 

[Dante]

We are just going to recreate the worst thread of last year(The UK general election thread). It's pretty clear from Boris past comments and voting record why a certain part of the population won't care about his current health situation.

The only way to prevent that is to threadban you.

 

[Lj82]

Do you or any of your friends have children whose nurseries and schools been closed? The second my son goes to sleep I just sit on my sofa like a potato due to exhaustion.

Totally empathise

 

[Carolina Red]

Holy shit. Over 700 workers in a hospital system in Detroit have tested positive for Covid-19.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-...5gNT9U4wDJed5WQ1ZGCHp4KTEOG3dGQBuwsysJJKEIjsM

 

[MDFC Manager]

Holy shit. Over 700 workers in a hospital system in Detroit have tested positive for Covid-19.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-...5gNT9U4wDJed5WQ1ZGCHp4KTEOG3dGQBuwsysJJKEIjsM

Just gives yet another reminder as to how insanely contagious this is.

 

[sglowrider]

Just gives yet another reminder as to how insanely contagious this is.

More like ill-prepared or lacked institutional memory. SARs was especially detrimental to healthcare workers too

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Just maybe, the bigger problem is that your style is quite annoying, more so than your different views, that are actually shared by many nordic and german posters, largely because we are in different situation than the countries in more imminent crisis. Whereas @Arruda is loved by everyone, obviously.

Yeah I’d agree with that @massi83

Annoying style, can't get around it I'm afraid, but some of my points in sticking up for certain measures are now gathering some serious backing, whether I’m an annoying gimp or not. Plenty of countries want to start slowly opening up and again after Easter and today the following published paper from Imperial: https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...effect-on-slowing-spread-of-covid-19-11969671

I’m most upset that I stuck up for Boris, that’ll never get any backing anywhere and gets me dog’s abuse.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

• In a 1995 column unearthed by Business Insider, UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson called for patients to be charged to use the National Health Service to prevent free care being "abused" by people who can afford to pay.
• The prime minister wrote in the Spectator magazine that free healthcare should be only for "those who are genuinely sick, and for the elderly."
• He added that "if people have to pay" for NHS services, "they will value them more

This is just the irrationality of the NHS debate in the UK. Correct me if I’m wrong but in Holland, which is ranked as the best healthcare system in the world, you have to pay some fees or excesses (like UK dental care) for services. It’s run by private companies but with government oversight for fairness whilst funding is available for those in economic distress. Sadly in the UK the NHS is political football so no rational debate can ever be had because of the ideological plonkers on both sides.

I think those comments are perfectly fine and hint at a system that seems to be in place in Holland. I’d also add that all the signals were that Johnson’s number one priority was funding the NHS and improving it because he saw it as his key to being reelected. I tend to believe those stories because a) the NHS consistently is the most important topic to the British electorate b) the makeup of Johnson’s cross class coalition means that this Tory government has to be different and c) he drove our fiscal conservative Javid so he wouldn’t get in the way of his public spending.

 

[VeevaVee]

To nitpick again, you did say “his party”. But yeah they were all to blame for that debacle but it was still under Labours reign.

Poorly worded. They all send people to their deaths for their own gain. His party wants the NHS dead and buried. Ironic how it’s needed now more than ever.

 

[TwoSheds]

Johnson wasn't PM until a couple of months ago. His cabinet weren't the ones that shat on the NHS. He listened to his own nation's medical advisors, which as per your original point were put into position by the previous administration. His political advisor is a cnut, but that doesn't mean he himself deserves to die for it.

So far HIS administration has;

Listened to government advisors
Change tactic when it turned out the information was false
Put economic policies in place to protect millions of people in the UK

You keep saying "they" as if they = Boris. If Cummings was the one in ICU, or Osborne or Lansley, Hunt or Cameron I would give less of a shit than I do about Boris, which is already very little to begin with. But that's all irrelevant. Proclaiming that you want someone to suffer because they've made other people suffer makes you just as much of a cnut* as they are. Perhaps even moreso because they can at least try and hide behind a sense of ignorance to the situation.

*Not calling you specifically a cnut, I'm making a general statement**

**I like cake

He was the Foreign fecking Secretary and has been PM for 4 months, to try and pretend he's never had any input on Tory policy or didn't agree with any of it is a bit of a stretch. And yes, listening to bad advice is still your fault just because you didn't know it at the time. Him and Cummings got the answer they wanted to hear then rowed back on it when the volume turned up and they realised just how fecked they would be when the body bags started piling up in the streets.

And whilst they have put economic policies in to protect people, they've also let a lot of people fall through the cracks for no good reason. For example I have a mate who started a job after 28th March and she isn't eligible for furlough. 6 week wait for UC for you bitch. And you still have to pay your rent, tough shit.

They've also managed to channel a lot of money to private banks (40% of QE ended up with the richest 5% of the population last time they used it during the financial crisis for example), and completely shaft a lot of small businesses that can't wait til June for help. Meanwhile Rees Mogg and all the other financial vultures are licking their lips over the possibility of being able to buy up any tasty businesses who go under and make a lot of money in the process.

So yeah, I wish him well, and bizarrely he may well be one of the least bad PMs we've had in my lifetime so far, but he's still an incompetent, lazy truth vacuum, and being sick doesn't change that.

 

[Grinner]

This is not the thread for debating Boris Johnson's politics. There is already one set up for that....use it.

 

[TwoSheds]

This is just the irrationality of the NHS debate in the UK. Correct me if I’m wrong but in Holland, which is ranked as the best healthcare system in the world, you have to pay some fees or excesses (like UK dental care) for services. It’s run by private companies but with government oversight for fairness whilst funding is available for those in economic distress. Sadly in the UK the NHS is political football so no rational debate can ever be had because of the ideological plonkers on both sides.

I think those comments are perfectly fine and hint at a system that seems to be in place in Holland. I’d also add that all the signals were that Johnson’s number one priority was funding the NHS and improving it because he saw it as his key to being reelected. I tend to believe those stories because a) the NHS consistently is the most important topic to the British electorate b) the makeup of Johnson’s cross class coalition means that this Tory government has to be different and c) he drove our fiscal conservative Javid so he wouldn’t get in the way of his public spending.

I would say all the signs were that he wanted to be seen to be improving the NHS, not that he wanted to actually improve it. He was in the middle of trying to sell chunks of it to Trump and his mates for one thing.

Evidence for my position could be the 40 new hospitals which were really just 6 new hospitals that were already under construction anyway. Or the 50,000 new nurses which were really just 30,000. And then you add in the fact that the psychopath in the Home Office was trying to put in a points based system that would have made it almost impossible to recruit foreign nurses and difficult even to retain some of the current ones.

One thing I'm hoping from all this is that Boris should actually come out of this with some perspective and understanding of the importance of some of these systems. He'll have to be a special kind of bastard to not actually do something for the NHS now, and hopefully it will be taken off the table in the US trade deal.

 

[Volumiza]

This is not the thread for debating Boris Johnson's politics. There is already one set up for that....use it.

Nice interjection. Quickly becoming another thread not to read.

 

[JPRouve]

Not following conspiracies, this is the second lethal virus originated from the same place!

What will you say about that?

That China represents a fifth of earth population, that these type of viruses are relatively common in the fauna. China will always be one of the main places where viruses hosted by animals find a way to jump on humans because most of China is totally wild and the rest is full of humans, it's a number's game. As I said earlier in this thread we know that there is an ebola-like virus in China called Mengla, as far as we know currently it's not transmittable to humans but don't go into conspiracies when it happens, because it will most likely happen one day whether it is in 10 or 200 years.

 

[Samid]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Pretty damning if true.

 

[Revan]

That China represents a fifth of earth population, that these type of viruses are relatively common in the fauna. China will always be one of the main places where viruses hosted by animals find a way to jump on humans because most of China is totally wild and the rest is full of humans, it's a number's game. As I said earlier in this thread we know that there is an ebola-like virus in China called Mengla, as far as we know currently it's not transmittable to humans but don't go into conspiracies when it happens, because it will most likely happen one day whether it is in 10 or 200 years.

If it is a numbers game, then shouldn’t 4 diseases come out from other places for every disease that comes from China?

Yet, in this decade we have SARS, SARS 2, H5N1, H7N9 originated in China. MERS, Ebola, Zika and swine flu were outside of China (though in case of swine flu was a new strain of a virus originated in 1918 either on China or the US). Anyway, the point is that it is happening more often than it should in China.

 

[Untied]

This is going off topic but just want to correct some misinformation for anyone reading

This is just the irrationality of the NHS debate in the UK. Correct me if I’m wrong but in Holland, which is ranked as the best healthcare system in the world, you have to pay some fees or excesses (like UK dental care) for services. It’s run by private companies but with government oversight for fairness whilst funding is available for those in economic distress.

The only source I can find for this is a report funded by a private health care company and free market lobbyists.

It’s hard to rank healthcare systems and there’s no agreed way to do so. Rankings typically reflect political agendas (e.g giving something a high ranking because of ‘choice’ or ‘efficiency’)

 

[Cpt Negative]

• In a 1995 column unearthed by Business Insider, UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson called for patients to be charged to use the National Health Service to prevent free care being "abused" by people who can afford to pay.
• The prime minister wrote in the Spectator magazine that free healthcare should be only for "those who are genuinely sick, and for the elderly."
• He added that "if people have to pay" for NHS services, "they will value them more.

Also

• Almost always voted against paying higher benefits over longer periods for those unable to work due to illness or disability
• Almost always voted for a reduction in spending on welfare benefits

As someone with a disabled family member and I've also seen the struggles of people with mental illness over the last decade, I think it's only fair I treat Boris in a similar way to how he's treated them. It's what he would have wanted.

I’m not rich, far from it. But isn’t asking those who can afford to pay for treatment protecting those who cannot afford to pay for it?

The second point. Isn’t that exactly what the NHS is for? Those that are genuinely mentally or physically unwell.

third point. It’s true. People abuse things that are free. Whilst not comparable in anyway. Look what happened when there was a 5p charge for a plastic bag. The use of them plummeted because people were asked to make a small contribution to charities and they didn’t want To spend any extra 50p out of principle. If there was a small surcharge to see a doctor (akin to that of the dentist) I can assure you people would follow procedures like going to a pharmacy etc first, therefore freeing up time for more serious concerns

 

[Fluctuation0161]

• In a 1995 column unearthed by Business Insider, UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson called for patients to be charged to use the National Health Service to prevent free care being "abused" by people who can afford to pay.
• The prime minister wrote in the Spectator magazine that free healthcare should be only for "those who are genuinely sick, and for the elderly."
• He added that "if people have to pay" for NHS services, "they will value them more.

Also

• Almost always voted against paying higher benefits over longer periods for those unable to work due to illness or disability
• Almost always voted for a reduction in spending on welfare benefits

As someone with a disabled family member and I've also seen the struggles of people with mental illness over the last decade, I think it's only fair I treat Boris in a similar way to how he's treated them. It's what he would have wanted.

Fair points. I can't argue with you.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

I would say all the signs were that he wanted to be seen to be improving the NHS, not that he wanted to actually improve it. He was in the middle of trying to sell chunks of it to Trump and his mates for one thing.

Evidence for my position could be the 40 new hospitals which were really just 6 new hospitals that were already under construction anyway. Or the 50,000 new nurses which were really just 30,000. And then you add in the fact that the psychopath in the Home Office was trying to put in a points based system that would have made it almost impossible to recruit foreign nurses and difficult even to retain some of the current ones.

One thing I'm hoping from all this is that Boris should actually come out of this with some perspective and understanding of the importance of some of these systems. He'll have to be a special kind of bastard to not actually do something for the NHS now, and hopefully it will be taken off the table in the US trade deal.

He's probably getting private healthcare treatment?

 

[Zlatan 7]

We are just going to recreate the worst thread of last year(The UK general election thread). It's pretty clear from Boris past comments and voting record why a certain part of the population won't care about his current health situation.

And you don’t help. The worst poster in this thread imo

 

[Grinner]

Have there been any stats or reporting on people who have recovered from intensive care having any permanent damage or are they making full recoveries?

Is pneumonia something that goes completely if you survive it?

@Arruda sorry to keep asking you this stuff.

 

[11101]

If it is a numbers game, then shouldn’t 4 diseases come out from other places for every disease that comes from China?

Yet, in this decade we have SARS, SARS 2, H5N1, H7N9 originated in China. MERS, Ebola, Zika and swine flu were outside of China (though in case of swine flu was a new strain of a virus originated in 1918 either on China or the US). Anyway, the point is that it is happening more often than it should in China.

China is the ideal mix of population density and lack of hygiene standards. Hygiene is not exactly a priority in many parts and there are enough people that when something acquires the ability to spread, there are plenty of hosts available for it to infect.

The population density isn't going away so they need to improve their practices. Even though a lot did revert back to the norm after SARS faded away, in the hardest hit parts of Guangdong there is still a lasting memory of it and people are slightly more mindful of hygiene. With this outbreak being far worse than SARS you would hope that memory is multiplied.

 

[Berbasbullet]

And you don’t help. The worst poster in this thread imo

Posts like this don’t help either.

 

[JPRouve]

If it is a numbers game, then shouldn’t 4 diseases come out from other places for every disease that comes from China?

Yet, in this decade we have SARS, SARS 2, H5N1, H7N9 originated in China. MERS, Ebola, Zika and swine flu were outside of China (though in case of swine flu was a new strain of a virus originated in 1918 either on China or the US). Anyway, the point is that it is happening more often than it should in China.

There is a lot more viruses that have appeared in the last two decades Iquitos, Itaya, Chapare, Sabia or Guanarito viruses are examples in South America and not the only ones. H5N1 and H7N9 are interesting examples though, they were both first discovered in Scotland and Minnesota among poultry populations, now human contaminations were first reported in China and in the case of H7N9 it has only been reported in China, the interesting question is whether they were just first reported in China or evolved to human there.

But my point is simple, China and East Asia as a whole have the particularly of having for a large part a good tropical weather that viruses and parasites like, also large amounts of people live in relatively small areas and with human actions like deforestation, wild animals have less places to go that are as far as possible from Humans which means that we will be more and more in contact with new pathogens. The same thing is happening in South America and Africa. Europe alread burnt its forests and got rid of a substantial part of wildlife, so we are kind of safe.

 

[TwoSheds]

He's probably getting private healthcare treatment?

Doubt it. Most private hospitals ship their A&E cases to the NHS because it's too expensive and high risk so they're not really set up for it that well. Usually the NHS has very high standards in A&E, it's the more mundane services that suffer. Also, I think the private hospitals are renting their Covid-19 beds to the NHS anyway aren't they?

 

[ZupZup]

Have there been any stats or reporting on people who have recovered from intensive care having any permanent damage or are they making full recoveries?

Is pneumonia something that goes completely if you survive it?

@Arruda sorry to keep asking you this stuff.

I don't know about the stats... but I had pneumonia a couple of years ago and you do make a full recovery if you get over it. I felt the effects for a good 6-8 weeks after though in terms of fatigue and getting out of breath a lot more easily.

 

[dwd]

Have there been any stats or reporting on people who have recovered from intensive care having any permanent damage or are they making full recoveries?

Is pneumonia something that goes completely if you survive it?

@Arruda sorry to keep asking you this stuff.

I’ve been asking this for weeks now, the UK aren’t reporting recoveries the same way other countries seem to be, at least I hope they aren’t anyway. If not, the stats are terrifying.

 

[Dancfc]

I'm glad the impact on domestic abuse is starting to finally get some coverage, numbers have been up since the lockdown and will only rise further.

I really don't envy the person tasked with finding the happy medium here. We will need to come out of lockdown (atleast this strict version) in the next few weeks, even if we ignore the long term damage, hospital admissions through domestic violence, attempted suicide, heart attacks (through stress) will only continue to rise from here on in which will then go on to overwhelm the NHS, take beds (and nurses) away from potential virus victims and defeat the whole object of lockdown in the first place.

Also am I the only one that is low-key impressed with Sunak through this? If God for bid the worst happens to Boris I really hope he takes the lead instead of Hancock or Rab.

 

[Volumiza]

I don't know about the stats... but I had pneumonia a couple of years ago and you do make a full recovery if you get over it. I felt the effects for a good 6-8 weeks after though in terms of fatigue and getting out of breath a lot more easily.

I do recall seeing someone on tv last week saying that if you get a severe case your lungs may not fully recover. I took this as saying it could leave some permanent damage.

 

[Skills]

Doubt it. Most private hospitals ship their A&E cases to the NHS because it's too expensive and high risk so they're not really set up for it that well. Usually the NHS has very high standards in A&E, it's the more mundane services that suffer. Also, I think the private hospitals are renting their Covid-19 beds to the NHS anyway aren't they?

They are but it's also worth noting a lot of private healthcare in this country is just private wards within NHS hospitals. Where for the most part they're renting equipment from the NHS

 

[11101]

I'm glad the impact on domestic abuse is starting to finally get some coverage, numbers have been up since the lockdown and will only rise further.

I really don't envy the person tasked with finding the happy medium here. We will need to come out of lockdown (atleast this strict version) in the next few weeks, even if we ignore the long term damage, hospital admissions through domestic violence, attempted suicide, heart attacks (through stress) will only continue to rise from here on in which will then go on to overwhelm the NHS, take beds (and nurses) away from potential virus victims and defeat the whole object of lockdown in the first place.

Also am I the only one that is low-key impressed with Sunak through this? If God for bid the worst happens to Boris I really hope he takes the lead instead of Hancock or Rab.

It won't even come close.

With things like this you have to decide on the lesser evil. Whilst there will undoubtedly be issues that arise out of the lockdowns, we just have to take them on the chin and get on with it. They pale in comparison to the disruptive potential the virus has if allowed to get truly out of control.

 

[golden_blunder]

If/when he pulls through then I hope it will open his eyes to protecting the NHS and not selling it off to the american insurance Companies.
I think there should be a national debate once things have settled down about raising more funding for it to pay for more equipment, better equipment, opening more hospitals, renovating others and paying nursing staff better so that they don’t go abroad. Time to look after our NHS staff; they’ve more than proven how key they are.
In the light of this I’d propose a charge for going to a&e for example. People who genuinely need it will pay it, and those who don’t really need it will think twice

 

[TheReligion]

There should be a real trail of China for putting world under serious health and economic crises. This is the second time a lethal virus has originated from the same place. Not only this, but deliberately hiding it from the world, falsifying the facts about the disease and punishing the very doctor who tried to warn the world. When 9-11 happened, the world got United against radicalism and collectively chased the roots. Clamped down hard on the financial and other support for any potential breeding ground. Why it should be any difficult to take action against something that has caused a million times worse damage?

I totally agree and hope when the dust settles China takes some responsibility for it's poor handing of this, not only when it was discovered, but in how the country can prevent it happening yet again.

This guy’s party is responsible for underfunding the NHS and costing lots of lives, not to mention they send thousands of men to their deaths (who also have children) in unjust wars. I don’t wish death on him, but I can’t be the only one not giving a shit?

I get people don't like Boris and his party (I'm no Tory either given how they decimated my professional and put me out of pocket) but I can't agree with this. That's like holding me responsible for everything the police service do that's wrong.

Johnson wasn't PM until a couple of months ago. His cabinet weren't the ones that shat on the NHS. He listened to his own nation's medical advisors, which as per your original point were put into position by the previous administration. His political advisor is a cnut, but that doesn't mean he himself deserves to die for it.

So far HIS administration has;

Listened to government advisors
Change tactic when it turned out the information was false
Put economic policies in place to protect millions of people in the UK

You keep saying "they" as if they = Boris. If Cummings was the one in ICU, or Osborne or Lansley, Hunt or Cameron I would give less of a shit than I do about Boris, which is already very little to begin with. But that's all irrelevant. Proclaiming that you want someone to suffer because they've made other people suffer makes you just as much of a cnut* as they are. Perhaps even moreso because they can at least try and hide behind a sense of ignorance to the situation.

*Not calling you specifically a cnut, I'm making a general statement**

**I like cake

Good post mate.

I agree. Whenever the World comes out of this crisis it will immediately face the next crisis of getting back to whatever our new normal will be and every man, woman and dog will be in some sort of debt, countries will be in massive debt.

This virus started in China, whether in a lab or due to hygiene issues in a wet market serving citizens who spread this virus. Nearly every country in the World, especially Europe services debt held by China. The costs of their failure to prevent the virus and its spread around the World while being deceitful could maybe be offset against those debts.

Another post I agree with. The rest of the world is falling apart now and China has just sloped off into the background. I'm sure they are offering some help but let's be honest it's the least they can do. This is their fault and it keeps happening time and time again. It's totally unacceptable and they need holding to account when this settles. There should be a full inquiry by the UN and WHO regarding how this happened and the initial response with serious repercussions.

 

[ivaldo]

If/when he pulls through then I hope it will open his eyes to protecting the NHS and not selling it off to the american insurance Companies.
I think there should be a national debate once things have settled down about raising more funding for it to pay for more equipment, better equipment, opening more hospitals, renovating others and paying nursing staff better so that they don’t go abroad. Time to look after our NHS staff; they’ve more than proven how key they are.
In the light of this I’d propose a charge for going to a&e for example. People who genuinely need it will pay it, and those who don’t really need it will think twice

And those who do need it but are skint will not go.

 

[Grinner]

If/when he pulls through then I hope it will open his eyes to protecting the NHS and not selling it off to the american insurance Companies.
I think there should be a national debate once things have settled down about raising more funding for it to pay for more equipment, better equipment, opening more hospitals, renovating others and paying nursing staff better so that they don’t go abroad. Time to look after our NHS staff; they’ve more than proven how key they are.
In the light of this I’d propose a charge for going to a&e for example. People who genuinely need it will pay it, and those who don’t really need it will think twice

Definitely. it's great that he is actually needing to rely on the NHS like everybody else. I really hope it is a big learning experience for him when he survives and he becomes a changed man.

 

[Penna]

If/when he pulls through then I hope it will open his eyes to protecting the NHS and not selling it off to the american insurance Companies.
I think there should be a national debate once things have settled down about raising more funding for it to pay for more equipment, better equipment, opening more hospitals, renovating others and paying nursing staff better so that they don’t go abroad. Time to look after our NHS staff; they’ve more than proven how key they are.
In the light of this I’d propose a charge for going to a&e for example. People who genuinely need it will pay it, and those who don’t really need it will think twice

Small co-pays seem to work quite well, we have that type of system in Italy. Some things you pay for (blood tests, for instance), some you don't. Most prescribed drugs seem to have no cost, others do. It's not clear why, but I'm sure it makes sense to people who understand the system here!

You can then save your receipts and off-set what you've spent when you do your taxes - so it's quite fair. I assume people on very low incomes don't pay anything at all.

One thing that seems to work here is a walk-in GP service. Our GP has no staff at all, just him in his surgery and a waiting room, which has to be cheaper than an army of receptionists etc.

 

[Buster15]

I totally agree and hope when the dust settles China takes some responsibility for it's poor handing of this, not only when it was discovered, but in how the country can prevent it happening yet again.



I get people don't like Boris and his party (I'm no Tory either given how they decimated my professional and put me out of pocket) but I can't agree with this. That's like holding me responsible for everything the police service do that's wrong.



Good post mate.



Another post I agree with. The rest of the world is falling apart now and China has just sloped off into the background. I'm sure they are offering some help but let's be honest it's the least they can do. This is their fault and it keeps happening time and time again. It's totally unacceptable and they need holding to account when this settles. There should be a full inquiry by the UN and WHO regarding how this happened and the initial response with serious repercussions.

Bang on correct.
I have previously mentioned that China must be held accountable for all the human and financial damage that they have ultimately caused.

 

[Fiskey]

This is just the irrationality of the NHS debate in the UK. Correct me if I’m wrong but in Holland, which is ranked as the best healthcare system in the world, you have to pay some fees or excesses (like UK dental care) for services. It’s run by private companies but with government oversight for fairness whilst funding is available for those in economic distress. Sadly in the UK the NHS is political football so no rational debate can ever be had because of the ideological plonkers on both sides.

I think those comments are perfectly fine and hint at a system that seems to be in place in Holland. I’d also add that all the signals were that Johnson’s number one priority was funding the NHS and improving it because he saw it as his key to being reelected. I tend to believe those stories because a) the NHS consistently is the most important topic to the British electorate b) the makeup of Johnson’s cross class coalition means that this Tory government has to be different and c) he drove our fiscal conservative Javid so he wouldn’t get in the way of his public spending.

Well said.