Seems so! Just imagine the reaction if civil liberties were actually really threatened some day.
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
To be clear, what businesses do you think should have been allowed remain open but were forced to close by the government?
Pubs? restaurants? clothes shops?
Be specific.
It is not up to me to devise such a plan.
It is up to the world leaders to decide what should be done.
From my perspective, an investigation should be carried out to conclusively determine the precise cause and whether China was complicit.
In that eventuality, was China also at fault in hiding information from the WHO.
Subject to that, China should be taken to the International Court's and each country would make their case for damages.
It cannot be acceptable for China, subject to being at fault to not have to pay for the damages caused.
In the first instance, they should contribute to the funeral costs of those who died as a result of this virus.
We wouldn't have to worry about him posting about it on an internet forum, that's for sure.
Well said.
Bold is where we all should be. I have outside space so I've been pretty hardcore about not seeing anyone / going out. Only interaction has been food and essentials deliveries. Unfortunately, some people's social lives are literally rammed and they can't cope.
And what did your government do to protect you when everyone seemingly knew this was coming out of China and was apparently rather dangerous?
They did nothing.
Yeah, i dont think you know what i think that quote means..
Surely, a conflict in regards to human rights (such as privacy) and the surveillance machine of big tech companies by default (because of their business model) isnt a new subject is it?
Fears about the erosion of freedoms and civil liberties are generally very legitimate. It's therefore a shame that those who bring up these fears are so often unbearably tiresome.
It's one thing to point out that a lot of the restrictions we are currently experiencing would in normal times be deemed massively excessive and that we should be wary of the potential for them to be extended past the point where they are necessary.
It's another to woefully decry the loss of those liberties in the middle of the pandemic, pointing to the sort of restrictions that anyone with even an ounce of common sense or perspective would expect to be curtailed as a basic public health measure. It's such an unbelievably callow argument to make at a point when there are so many more pressing issues at stake.
It's one thing to point out that a lot of the restrictions we are currently experiencing would in normal times be deemed massively excessive and that we should be wary of the potential for them to be extended past the point where they are necessary.
It's another to woefully decry the loss of those liberties in the middle of the pandemic, pointing to the sort of restrictions that anyone with even an ounce of common sense or perspective would expect to be curtailed as a basic public health measure. It's such an unbelievably callow argument to make at a point when there are so many more pressing issues at stake.
The ones that think that their liberties are taken, could organize a massive demostration protesting to the government. All well packed and together, shoulder against shoulder and very sweaty
Lets see how it ends
Lets see how it ends
Hmm. We should be thanking China....
I wonder if the families of the huge number of dead will be quite as charitable as you.
I wonder if the huge number of people who will loose their jobs, or those who will ultimately pay the financial price for damage to the global economies would want to thank China.
We should use rigorous Risk Management techniques rather than tens of thousands of dead in order to prepare for such a pandemic.
Yes... its a democracy in the EU, so they will only use rubber bullets and tear gas against demonstrations..
And without them sure you will go out with that pandemic...and bring your elderly with you too. All for freedom
What has that got to do with the post.
The UK government says that it was talking action based upon the scientific advice.
How long do you think mass gatherings will be banned for after lockdown is lifted? Personally I feel additional 3 months is minimum but most likely until the end of year for 100+ people events.
CNN's Chris Cuomo talks about advice given to him by a pulmonary expert on how to fight Covid-19.
I love this advice: the key is to FIGHT. Don’t take the illness passively lying down.
Do everything you can to actively fight it: get up, stretch your torso, hold your breath for 10 seconds, breath deeply when it hurts, relentlessly push the fever down. Be desperate to beat this thing.
That’s the road to recovery.
https://edition.cnn.com/videos/medi...uomo-cpt-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/coronavirus/
I love this advice: the key is to FIGHT. Don’t take the illness passively lying down.
Do everything you can to actively fight it: get up, stretch your torso, hold your breath for 10 seconds, breath deeply when it hurts, relentlessly push the fever down. Be desperate to beat this thing.
That’s the road to recovery.
https://edition.cnn.com/videos/medi...uomo-cpt-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/coronavirus/
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Just block them. There are too many ignorant, uneducated and lazy people in this thread. The mods have fixed a lot but some are still being given airtime. They're just not worth it.
Do you realize how many countries could theoretically make claims against the US and other western countries? Our world doesn't work like that. And even if it did, however much at fault China may be for getting this one rolling, you can't blame them for western countries being slow to react, for Trump calling it a hoax or Boris bragging about shaking hands.
Even if that quote was what It seems it's bullshit and Franklin was dumb to say it.
He should have used 'those' as the first word for, erm, starters.
Agreed about events - if you cancel as organization, you're just following the others. If you let your event go ahead and it causes a new outbreak, it's bad PR forever and potentially even lawsuits, insurance issues, you name it. Even if it's allowed again, I can't see anyone taking the risk for the remainder of 2020.
How do you prevent a gathering of +100 people in a pub though? Constant surveillance and only a limited amount of people allowed in at the same time? Gonna need constant monitoring from the police, all around different countries. Hard to enforce imo.
@Sassy Colin, much tighter. We can't travel at all outside of our district of residence, which isn't so bad if you are a resident of Rome, but not so good if you're registered to a village like we are. You can travel outside for work if you're still working, for medical emergencies and for other immediate situations of necessity. Other than that, you have to remain in your area as long as there is a shop selling basic essentials (which isn't much, really). All public outside spaces are closed off, even the benches in the village.
When you leave your house for anything, you have to carry ID and complete a form which gives every bit of your personal info and requires you to declare that you understand the law and the penalties, and the reason you're out of your home. If the police stop you and you don't have it or you're out for no proper reason, you'll get a big fine.
We have been told not to go out at all if possible and to limit our visits to the village shop to one a week. People cannot go out in pairs, only one adult at a time may be out of the house. You are supposed to stay very near your house if you need to take a dog out or have some outside time with your child - a lot of people don't have gardens, so that's very hard for them.
edit - and you have to wear a mask as soon as you step outside your home. I even wear one to take the rubbish to the bins.
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It reads a lot like blame China for this and ignores the convention that it is a country's job to protect its own citizens and no one else's.
No country placed any significant travel restrictions on Chinese nationals until March.
No country implemented screening measures for travellers until March.
No country suggested their citizens had anything to worry about until March.
By then it was too late and here we are. People feel more comfortable blaming outsiders because it avoids criticism of their own.
It's easy to cry root cause and blame wet markets for this but that perspective ignores all of the subsequent failures of governments that should have been better prepared to deal with a potential pandemic orginating from that part of the world. Every single one of them failed.
100%. You also sense that they’ve all got massive lock-down boners over finally experiencing just a hint of what it actually means to have civil liberties curtailed, after spending years moaning about utterly trivial and/or hypothetical examples. They’re living the dream right now.
Another delicious irony is that they’ve completely stopped whining about big government now that so many people that previously didn’t need a safety net have ended up dependent on the state to keep food on the table, or to keep them alive if/when their number comes up.
The best is yet to come. State funded compulsory vaccination program. Watch them queue up like everyone else. Hehe.
Yes, one of the founding fathers of the United states is classified as ‘dumb’ by an unknown individual on a forum. Ok.
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Agree with you on this, especially in western G20 nations. Why do you think that happened?
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Well, May 1st shall be interesting in that regard. Normally, there are rallies and mass demonstrations in all major cities. The unions have cancelled theirs but the autonomous left has been very vocal in opposing the lockdown and not accepting their liberties being taken away. They have called for a "Revolutionary Mayday" in Berlin and for everyone to take to the streets and not letting the state dictate by "authoritarian decree". This usually ends in violence, not helped by the (infamous) Berlin police who have already announced they will be taking strict action. Oh, and add a few Nazi groups to the mix who also want to protest. Should be fun.
Idiots. The lot of them.
You going?
Wauw! The state making sure their citizens are fine during a crisis is such a privilege! Liberties have been compromised way before this pandemic. How about lobbyists who financially support politicans, for ‘favors’ and therefore compromising the essence of a ‘democracy’? How about big tech companies breaking privacy laws and influencing politics? There are many more examples, this lockdown, isnt the best example to give to claim that there are people who are ‘living their dream right now’.
No, no, I really do know what it means and what it's from. He wrote that in a letter in 1755 in support of defense spending and taxation during the French & Indian War. The quote has been taken out of context and butchered by the internet.Yeah, i dont think you know what i think that quote means..
Surely, a conflict in regards to human rights (such as privacy) and the surveillance machine of big tech companies by default (because of their business model) isnt a new subject is it?
https://www.lawfareblog.com/what-ben-franklin-really-said
Thats not the point. The point was about any demonstration, not only during a pandemic.
Yes, one of the founding fathers of the United states is classified as ‘dumb’ by an unknown individual on a forum. Ok.
awwww, status got you all wrapped up! It's a dumb quote but I doubt it's even been highlighted in the right context anyway.
Sure! Not sure on which side yet.
And my point is that even if they would give you the freedom to protest and change the lockdown on the pandemic, you would stay home before risk you and your loved ones because of the pandemic. Because is common sense that you have to stay the feck home for the time being if you can afford it and your government helps you if you can't afford it
You've a tricky decision to make. Mine's easy.
Just joking. I hate Berlin.
Bored. Please don't reply to me again.
Ok. Understood.
It was probably inevitable that mistakes were made by individual governments when faced with an unprecedented pandemic on this scale.
And it has been acknowledged that we have a lot to learn from Germany for example.
But. That is not the cause of the problem is it.
What I am saying is that the cause needs to be determined and, should China be proven to be culpable, then China, should be made to pay for both the human and economic damage.