Could they void the PL due to the Coronavirus? | No | Resuming June 17th

[Dancfc]

Like a Dipper you're talking about probability rather than mathematical certainty. Trophies of all stripes should not be given out unless one team has unequivocally won it. For instance, give me one example one of a previous PL/Div 1/FA Cup/League Cup being decided by anything rather than a clear cut mathematical certainty?

Now, you can argue about exceptional circumstances and that is true. However, what the Dutch League has done is fairest as sport is so unpredictable.

Another thing, I am really surprised that you, as a Chelsea fan, have been so supportive of the Dippers. All the Chelsea fans I know hate them even more than the Utd fans I know, with one of my Chelsea friends, who has lost about 20% on the stock market because of CV, saying that the loss is worth taking if the Dippers do not get the title. I mean, I could get it if Chelsea were in trouble with a certain method being selected, but in any of these situations;

A) full void and using 2018/19 standings
B ) the dutch model
C) average point system
D) table as is.

Chelsea are in the CL regardless.

Actually if you've read a lot of my posts it's more clubs like Sheffield United I'm "in support off". It wasn't long ago Chelsea were in positions where the league finish decided our medium/long term future (mid 90s/2003) so for that reason I feel they deserve a chance to see through what could be club changing European income, possibly CL.

The Liverpool situation is not so much Liverpool per se, it's because I know there's a possibility Chelsea could be in this position sometime in life and I wouldn't want a void then so it would be quite hypocritical if I called for one now.

 

[Random Task]

It's competely different situations because comebacks in CL's are possible, blowing a 25 point lead with 9 games to go is about as close to footballing impossibility as it's possible to get. They could play the last 9 games a trillion times and they ain't blowing it even once. If Chelsea were 2 up at half time of an abandoned CL final i would agree it shouldn't be awarded to us and if we can't play the second half at a later date then tough, but if we were 6 up with 5 minutes to go when abandoned my stance would be the total opposite.

If you see my post pre pandemic i was dreading them winning the league as much as anyone but i can't justify not awarding it them and if as much as one other league declares a Champion then that makes any argument not to 'void'.

Improbable but not impossible, and that's the underlying point in this entire 'who gets what' discussion. Awarding Liverpool the title based on probability alone will open a can of worms that the football governing bodies will be unable to contend with, not to mention potential legal implications.

United were arguably the most in-form team in the league and the EL before the virus interrupted proceedings. Based on probability alone, there was a very good chance we would have ended the season in the top-four and claimed two cups along the way. Improbable but not possible.

United are just one club with a say, but there are hundreds of clubs scattered across Europe who will feel they deserve something from last season. The FA will be setting a dangerous precedent should they even entertain the notion of giving Liverpool a league title they have not won legitimately. It's the sort of decision that could lead to a breakaway league being formed.

 

[diawl_coch]

I think that kind of misses the point of the argument though - should Arsenal have been awarded the points against Newcastle in Feb 2011 had the game been abandoned after 60 minutes? (4-0 to Arsenal at the time - nobody in the history of the PL had ever or has ever since avoided defeat after going 0-4 down)

Let's say the 2nd leg of the Barcelona-PSG game or the Liverpool-Barcelona game couldn't be played for whatever reason. Would it have been right to just assume PSG and Barcelona would have qualified?

The beauty of football is that it's not over until it's over. You can't arbitrarily award points or wins until the game or season is complete. As other posters have pointed out, where do you draw the line? If Liverpool had been 15pts clear before the suspension, would that have been enough? How about 10? How about 6?

If Liverpool had mathematically won the title that would have opened up a different argument about whether they could be crowned Champions without any relegations. As it stands, the title wasn't mathematically won, a freak event has occurred which NOBODY foresaw and unfortunately for them, the ONLY way this can play out (unless we want to put next season at risk as well) is to finish the season and declare it void

Couldn't agree more.

Mathematically, and this is all about the statistics, Liverpool have won nothing.

If the season cannot be completed, that's the way it stays.

 

[Redcy]

If we are going on probability why are we not using probability to work out who should relegated or promoted ? What’s the percentage limit on probabilities? I reckon it’s highly probable villa win their game in hand or Sheffield United for example.

 

[Member 101269]

Improbable but not impossible, and that's the underlying point in this entire 'who gets what' discussion. Awarding Liverpool the title based on probability alone will open a can of worms that the football governing bodies will be unable to contend with, not to mention potential legal implications.

United are just one club with a say, but there are hundreds of clubs scattered across Europe who will feel they deserve something from last season. The FA will be setting a dangerous precedent should they even entertain the notion of giving Liverpool a league title they have not won legitimately. It's the sort of decision that could lead to a breakaway league being formed.

It's not often i agree with a Chelsea Fan ( reminds self to pop glasses on and it's impossible to agree with a Chelsea fan).

Using the coefficient at national level would undermine using it to determine sporting performance at European level. I do think UEFA will give United a CL place based on historical performance using their coefficient.

If we are going on probability why are we not using probability to work out who should relegated or promoted ? What’s the percentage limit on probabilities? I reckon it’s highly probable villa win their game in hand or Sheffield United for example.

We're not using probability; PL and UEFA wouldn't risk it.

 

[Random Task]

It's not often i agree with a Chelsea Fan.

Using the coefficient at national level would undermine using it to determine sporting performance at European level. I do think UEFA will give United a CL place based on historical performance using their coefficient.




We're not using probability; PL and UEFA wouldn't risk it.

He just called me a Chelsea fan.

SAY WOT?!?

 

[duffer]

He just called me a Chelsea fan.

SAY WOT?!?

It's because you said something reasonable whilst being good looking.

 

[Random Task]

It's because you said something reasonable whilst being good looking.

Thanks again, you've been quite the helpful guy today.

 

[Redcy]

We're not using probability; PL and UEFA wouldn't risk it.

well that’s the suggestion here. Because it’s highly probable Liverpool would win the league they should be given the title.

personally I think the pl will shut down as is, positions count as is for Europe. Then I am guessing that they might ask for a club vote on awarding Liverpool the league.

 

[Isotope]

Chelsea have fans?

 

[stevoc]

well that’s the suggestion here. Because it’s highly probable Liverpool would win the league they should be given the title.

personally I think the pl will shut down as is, positions count as is for Europe. Then I am guessing that they might ask for a club vote on awarding Liverpool the league.

If that happens then i would hope it comes down to 9 votes for and 9 against with the deciding vote to Woodward. And despite club rivalry he would do the honourable and sportsmanlike thing and raise his thumb up.......

.......look around the room with his gaze finishing at Liverpool before slowly pointing his thumb down Gladiator style.

Spoiler: Emperor Woodward

 

[Ludens the Red]

If that happens then i would hope it comes down to 9 votes for and 9 against with the deciding vote to Woodward. And despite club rivalry he would do the honourable and sportsmanlike thing and raise his thumb up.......

.......look around the room with his gaze finishing at Liverpool before slowly pointing his thumb down Gladiator style.

Spoiler: Emperor Woodward

 

[NinjaZombie]

Honestly with the amount of talk by Liverpool fans/pundits/ex-players about how unfair it will be void the season and deny them the title, I am at the point where I'd say feck it just give those bastards the league and cancel next season's football. Let them celebrate while the rest of us concentrate on what matters more, which is dealing with this pandemic that has killed tens of thousands of people all over the world.

My brother is a paramedic and has a 2 year old kid and he is out there risking his well being working. I personally know people who've lost their family member to the disease and I know of several people who are the breadwinners of their families whose incomes have been affected by this whole thing.

Liverpool Football Club, to their credit, have not made any comments about the fact that their title win is in jeopardy. Their ex-players and fans, however have been grating in their insistence on talking about the title when there are clearly bigger issues at hand here.

Just give them the title and cancel football until it's safe.

 

[Sandikan]

Honestly with the amount of talk by Liverpool fans/pundits/ex-players about how unfair it will be void the season and deny them the title, I am at the point where I'd say feck it just give those bastards the league and cancel next season's football. Let them celebrate while the rest of us concentrate on what matters more, which is dealing with this pandemic that has killed tens of thousands of people all over the world.

My brother is a paramedic and has a 2 year old kid and he is out there risking his well being working. I personally know people who've lost their family member to the disease and I know of several people who are the breadwinners of their families whose incomes have been affected by this whole thing.

Liverpool Football Club, to their credit, have not made any comments about the fact that their title win is in jeopardy. Their ex-players and fans, however have been grating in their insistence on talking about the title when there are clearly bigger issues at hand here.

Just give them the title and cancel football until it's safe.

Football HAS been cancelled until it's safe.

What happens with Liverpool should only be considered as part of what happens with the league as a whole. They can't treat any team separately.

 

[InterFan1998]

https://app.football-italia.net/?re...t#article/footballitalia-152590&menu=news-all

Looks like Serie A will commence individual training May 4th, group training May 18th, and looking to continue the season around June 2 - 10 behind closed doors.

 

[FootballHQ]

If we are going on probability why are we not using probability to work out who should relegated or promoted ? What’s the percentage limit on probabilities? I reckon it’s highly probable villa win their game in hand or Sheffield United for example.

We probably wouldn't, Sheffield only lost away at Man. City and Liverpool this season.

It would be fairer to void when all teams have played same amount of games though.

 

[SharpshooterTom]

https://app.football-italia.net/?re...t#article/footballitalia-152590&menu=news-all

Looks like Serie A will commence individual training May 4th, group training May 18th, and looking to continue the season around June 2 - 10 behind closed doors.

Still complete madness IMO, social distancing is likely to be enforced for the rest of the year at least.

How do they have group training under those circumstances? Somebody is going to test positive eventually and what are they going to do then?

 

[Klopper76]

He just called me a Chelsea fan.

SAY WOT?!?

I knew it! You’ve been exposed RT!

 

[Garry Buck]

It’s looking likely the season will be finished and I am very happy about that. Sure Liverpool winning the title sucks big time but we ourselves can still finish strongly and have a very good season overall. Top 4 very much still in play, we are still in a very strong position to go to the later stages of the Europa League and we can still have a chance in the Fa Cup. Not all bad.

 

[Sad Chris]

Honestly with the amount of talk by Liverpool fans/pundits/ex-players about how unfair it will be void the season and deny them the title, I am at the point where I'd say feck it just give those bastards the league and cancel next season's football.

All the more reason not to give it to them. Giving in to kids throwing their toys out of the pram is the first step to creating an arsehole. This is exactly the time to let them whine and scream. It‘s definitely not going to get better if they get what they want.

 

[ValenciasDrilledCrosses]

All the more reason not to give it to them. Giving in to kids throwing their toys out of the pram is the first step to creating an arsehole. This is exactly the time to let them whine and scream. It‘s definitely not going to get better if they get what they want.

They're already arseholes though

 

[Member 101269]

It’s looking likely the season will be finished and I am very happy about that. Sure Liverpool winning the title sucks big time but we ourselves can still finish strongly and have a very good season overall. Top 4 very much still in play, we are still in a very strong position to go to the later stages of the Europa League and we can still have a chance in the Fa Cup. Not all bad.

Where did this information come from?

At a personal level there is not a chance i'm going to watch a match live unless 1) NHS/Care workers etc etc sufficient has PPE 2) it's effectively over

China hasn't started matches yet.. the last of the school children are going back today.. they have the testing system working well.

 

[Rooney24]

It’s looking likely the season will be finished and I am very happy about that. Sure Liverpool winning the title sucks big time but we ourselves can still finish strongly and have a very good season overall. Top 4 very much still in play, we are still in a very strong position to go to the later stages of the Europa League and we can still have a chance in the Fa Cup. Not all bad.

Based on what?

 

[reddevil80]

How the dutch have handled their leagues is a shining example to the footballing world from what I can tell. I cannot see any way that distancing can be upheld for the safety of any person involved with the game. What happens when a player gets injured?, rely on the St John's Ambulance or even our own very overworked NHS heroes? No-one else could attend the injured player. As it has been reported and re-booted on several occasions, what if one of the players or their family has been a carrier and they have not yet had symptoms; then pass it into the footballing stadium? The risk is far too high and nobody knows how long this virus will exist and nobody knows how long it will take to dissipate, if it does disappear. IMO, the season has to be called off. I do not want the dippers to get the league by default, or in any other way either to be honest but the footballing professional bodies have to look at what could be acceptable for future generations. We were finishing on an exceptional run and looked like a corner had been turned so I think we should now concentrate on ending this current campaign, get the nation back on their feet and out again and plan for next season.

 

[cyberman]

A lot of noise this morning about restarting and 5 subs for this just to be smoke.
We will see football in 3 weeks imo

 

[Sandikan]

A lot of noise this morning about restarting and 5 subs for this just to be smoke.
We will see football in 3 weeks imo

They'll need at least three weeks of training before any games of any nature take place.

The most optimistic time scale was back to training mid May as per some Fa spiel recently.

 

[Dancfc]

Based on what?

German league quite possibly returning next weekend. Italian priminister Conte has given the go ahead for individual training to resume on May 4th then team training two weeks later, Arsenal players returning to light training next week.

 

[Tarrou]

I know they desperate to rush it back but it just feels too soon to me

 

[Slysi17]

It will have to be bcd. Obviously, this is still going to cause carnage in the lower leagues but bcd will help the top two leagues.



Personally, I am not convinced this season will resume. I reckon we will not see football until Sept/Oct and the new season will start there as by that point enough people should be tested which is the biggest problem atm.



See the two posts below.







Problem is, this attitude can be applied to everything. Why open up public transport/offices/pubs/cinemas/supermarkets etc?

If you keep everything closed to 2021 then there will be no economy to come back to and,despite the hysteria over Covid, that is a scenario that is significantly worse than the current situation by a significant chalk and will kill far more people. At some point very soon we need to restart the economy as otherwise the curse is going to be worse than the disease.

Obviously, things will probably have to be bcd with football but that should be possible once there is enough testing which should start rolling out in the next few months. So, no football until Sept/Oct and after that bcd until it is possible to have large crowds again.

I know it's sad that people are dying of covid19 but it simply isn't sustainable for the economy to have everything closed likes pubs etc for an extended period of time. Do you want people's livelihoods to be ruined by shutting down things till 2021.

 

[cyberman]

They'll need at least three weeks of training before any games of any nature take place.

The most optimistic time scale was back to training mid May as per some Fa spiel recently.

The 5 subs are set up to compensate for lack of training. I think it'll be announced this week, 2 weeks of training then back at it.
If players started training tomorrow it will be what? 5 weeks since their last training session? It might not be full match fitness but they wouldnt be far off it. Its not like theyre been off on holidays

 

[TheReligion]

The 5 subs are set up to compensate for lack of training. I think it'll be announced this week, 2 weeks of training then back at it.
If players started training tomorrow it will be what? 5 weeks since their last training session? It might not be full match fitness but they wouldnt be far off it. Its not like theyre been off on holidays

They won't be doing any training or match prep until lockdown rules are relaxed and that won't be today or tomorrow but more than likely another few weeks at best

 

[TheReligion]

I know it's sad that people are dying of covid19 but it simply isn't sustainable for the economy to have everything closed likes pubs etc for an extended period of time. Do you want people's livelihoods to be ruined by shutting down things till 2021.

Let's just open them up. They'll have no punters when everyone's dead so they can make the most of it in the meantime.

 

[Rooney24]

German league quite possibly returning next weekend. Italian priminister Conte has given the go ahead for individual training to resume on May 4th then team training two weeks later, Arsenal players returning to light training next week.

Amazes me that people continue to compare the situation in Germany to the UK as a reason to get the PL up and running again.

Germany has approx 6,000 deaths v the UKs 21,000 approx and have tested over 2 Million People compared to the UKs 670,000. Its an apple and oranges comparison.

I read the Italian PM saying that, but how will it work long term unless they relax social distancing measures? It simply cannot and it seems SD in some form is with us throughout Europe probably until the end of the year.

The President of Brescia also said his club is absolutely ready to forfeit their remaining games if the Season resumes. They are bottom of the league right enough and he may have a vested interest but Brescia is the epicentre of the Italian outbreak so its understandable where he is coming from.

 

[Sandikan]

The 5 subs are set up to compensate for lack of training. I think it'll be announced this week, 2 weeks of training then back at it.
If players started training tomorrow it will be what? 5 weeks since their last training session? It might not be full match fitness but they wouldnt be far off it. Its not like theyre been off on holidays

I thought they pretty much had been advised to go on holiday. But obviously not a traditional holiday!
The restrictions last another two weeks for starters and then it's to be seen if there's testing allowed for non vital workers.

Nothing has suddenly changed to suggest football is imminent.

 

[Dave Smith]

Actually if you've read a lot of my posts it's more clubs like Sheffield United I'm "in support off". It wasn't long ago Chelsea were in positions where the league finish decided our medium/long term future (mid 90s/2003) so for that reason I feel they deserve a chance to see through what could be club changing European income, possibly CL.

The Liverpool situation is not so much Liverpool per se, it's because I know there's a possibility Chelsea could be in this position sometime in life and I wouldn't want a void then so it would be quite hypocritical if I called for one now.

The only way Sheffield can get CL is if things are played out. If not then it is EL. Most people agree that if it can be, the league should be played out. If not then you cannot be declaring Champions/relegation/promotion on probability.

I know it's sad that people are dying of covid19 but it simply isn't sustainable for the economy to have everything closed likes pubs etc for an extended period of time. Do you want people's livelihoods to be ruined by shutting down things till 2021.

I was arguing that we need to open up sooner rather than later. The post you quoted was responding to someone that was suggesting that there would be no football at all until 2021.

 

[Dancfc]

Amazes me that people continue to compare the situation in Germany to the UK as a reason to get the PL up and running again.

Germany has approx 6,000 deaths v the UKs 21,000 approx and have tested over 2 Million People compared to the UKs 670,000. Its an apple and oranges comparison.

I read the Italian PM saying that, but how will it work long term unless they relax social distancing measures? It simply cannot and it seems SD in some form is with us throughout Europe probably until the end of the year.

The President of Brescia also said his club is absolutely ready to forfeit their remaining games if the Season resumes. They are bottom of the league right enough and he may have a vested interest but Brescia is the epicentre of the Italian outbreak so its understandable where he is coming from.

Ofcourse we're miles behind Germany and that will show when the season resumes miles later.

And you've kind of answered your question when you say in some form, in controlled environments it won't be as strict but even then they are taking precautions hence the rumours of the subs sitting in the crowd.

 

[JB08]

So glad this is back soon, only a couple days left of April Palace is a tough one to come back to but hopefully we can carry our momentum from before the suspension.

 

[Slysi17]

The only way Sheffield can get CL is if things are played out. If not then it is EL. Most people agree that if it can be, the league should be played out. If not then you cannot be declaring Champions/relegation/promotion on probability.


I was arguing that we need to open up sooner rather than later. The post you quoted was responding to someone that was suggesting that there would be no football at all until 2021.

Sorry meant football too. Have the same viewpoint as what you are saying. Its simply not sustainable for football clubs to survive. Remember it's not just the players or coaches either. It's the support staff too.

 

[TheReligion]

So glad this is back soon, only a couple days left of April Palace is a tough one to come back to but hopefully we can carry our momentum from before the suspension.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

A lot of noise this morning about restarting and 5 subs for this just to be smoke.
We will see football in 3 weeks imo

zero chance of football in three weeks.