SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

So I started today on Covid ER. My hospital decided to go for "full protection for our professionals". I'm sitting here on Ebola level protection, sweating like a pig. Can't piss, eat, drink or smoke, pauses which happen every 4 hours and force us to re-equip to do that stuff.

Seems like a waste of equipment to me, given the epidemiologic scenario here. I'm likely to spend 56 hours here this week (and the next) and will see an average of one or two patients per day.

Also can't use phone or any kind of personal equipment. We don't auscultate patients as we can't access our ears in this equipment.
 
In the long term, though, you do wonder if completely eradicating the virus so quickly might not look like the best approach, with hindsight. Time will tell.

It will be the better approach. 100%.

You’re effectively arguing that an out of control random aggressive spread through society, is Possibly better than a controlled one.
 
There's a really dangerous game being played here



The optimist in me thinks that it won't hurt China, they are too big, rich and powerful. Also these articles and leaks are way too obvious, the people making them aren't the smartest so we can imagine where it comes from.
 
So I started today on Covid ER. My hospital decided to go for "full protection for our professionals". I'm sitting here on Ebola level protection, sweating like a pig. Can't piss, eat, drink or smoke, pauses which happen every 4 hours and force us to re-equip to do that stuff.

Seems like a waste of equipment to me, given the epidemiologic scenario here. I'm likely to spend 56 hours here this week (and the next) and will see an average of one or two patients per day.

Also can't use phone or any kind of personal equipment. We don't auscultate patients as we can't access our ears in this equipment.

you should take the time between patients to quit smoking
 
That’s your reaction to someone spending 50+ hours a week in full PPE in a Covid 19 ER ward? Go wash your legs.

It's ok, I thought the same :lol: But I wanted to be sure it actually isn't protective against Covid before my next effort.

Not smoking isn't the worst, you get used to it quickly, but this forced fluid management sucks.
 
Coronavirus vaccine may never be found, Boris Johnson says



It is a possibility, I imagine government's will be making plans for this. It would require changes to our lifestyles in order to live with the virus. If we can build up a herd immunity that would be optimal. Contract tracing will also be necessary and I imagine that apps for this will be required if you have a smartphone. I think shops could also install screens for their cashiers to stand behind or even masks and gloves being compulsory for everyone. Sports would be behind closed doors, perhaps stadiums could open small sections with families allowed to sit next to each other but nobody in the next 2 or 3 seats around them.

When I try to imagine how the world continues without a virus or without immunity then it's hard to see how the economy or life can even get close to how it was last year.
 
Ok, yeah, fair enough. You probably did. @Regulus Arcturus Black was definitely making very similar points.

Just to repeat myself, I’m not criticising NZ. They’ve done an amazing job. Right now I’d much rather be living there than where I am. I don’t think countries that have been less effective than them at suppressing spread have done so as part of a clever strategy. They’ve just been less good at trying to do what NZ achieved.

In the long term, though, you do wonder if completely eradicating the virus so quickly might not look like the best approach, with hindsight. Time will tell.
I've been on the same page as @Regulus Arcturus Black for most of this thread. But I'm not as much of an expert on Swedish half-term holidays.
 
My wife is pregnant and is shielding for 12 weeks. Do I still go to work? From people I’ve asked, I’ve got mixed responses.

My Mrs has been told to take the 12 weeks off of work whilst I'm off due to receiving a letter.

If you do have to work, the living requirements become a joke without even factoring in being pregnant.

Basically have to use separate bathrooms and bedrooms, with the vulnerable person not using communal areas. How on earth that would work with a pregnant woman I've no idea.
 
It is a possibility, I imagine government's will be making plans for this. It would require changes to our lifestyles in order to live with the virus. Contract tracing will also be necessary and I imagine that apps for this will be required if you have a smartphone. I think shops could also install screens for their cashiers to stand behind or even masks and gloves being compulsory for everyone. Sports would be behind closed doors, perhaps stadiums could open small sections with families allowed to sit next to each other but nobody in the next 2 or 3 seats around them.

When I try to imagine how the world continues without a virus or without immunity then it's hard to see how the economy or life can even get close to how it was last year.

I may be wrong but my minimal knowledge tells me that if we can’t develop a vaccine, it’s highly likely that developing herd immunity will also be impossible for the same reason.
 
It will be the better approach. 100%.

You’re effectively arguing that an out of control random aggressive spread through society, is Possibly better than a controlled one.

No. What a weird way to interpret what I wrote. I’m arguing that controlled spread might be better than complete eradication. In the very long term.
 
One of Polish artists said she doesn’t believe that there’s a virus that gets killed by soap but not by any medicine, and found it funny to say ‘maybe people should eat soap’.

Her being an idiot was expected. The fact that I have dozens of people posting this on Facebook saying ‘well said, it’s a scam’ etc. is quite frankly shocking. The state of modern population.
 
It is a possibility, I imagine government's will be making plans for this. It would require changes to our lifestyles in order to live with the virus. If we can build up a herd immunity that would be optimal. Contract tracing will also be necessary and I imagine that apps for this will be required if you have a smartphone. I think shops could also install screens for their cashiers to stand behind or even masks and gloves being compulsory for everyone. Sports would be behind closed doors, perhaps stadiums could open small sections with families allowed to sit next to each other but nobody in the next 2 or 3 seats around them.

When I try to imagine how the world continues without a virus or without immunity then it's hard to see how the economy or life can even get close to how it was last year.

I don’t think it would be sustainable for an extended period. Already a high percentage of population believe the virus is a scam to control population. If you try to force them to live like that for much longer, there would be millions of morons on the streets. You’d have to literally start firing guns at them to get control back. People are just too dumb and access to internet is too common.
 
It's ok, I thought the same :lol: But I wanted to be sure it actually isn't protective against Covid before my next effort.

Not smoking isn't the worst, you get used to it quickly, but this forced fluid management sucks.

The smoking thing is confusing. Arguably not a good time to quit.

I heard an interesting idea about a confounding variable though. HCWs are disproportionately represented among the infected. And they smoke a lot less than non-HCWs (with some honourable exceptions!). Plus they often get a higher viral load. Hence non-smokers might appear to get infected more often/get sicker when the real risk is the job they do.

In the studies I’ve seen they control for age/sex/co-morbidities but not profession.
 
It is a possibility, I imagine government's will be making plans for this. It would require changes to our lifestyles in order to live with the virus. If we can build up a herd immunity that would be optimal. Contract tracing will also be necessary and I imagine that apps for this will be required if you have a smartphone. I think shops could also install screens for their cashiers to stand behind or even masks and gloves being compulsory for everyone. Sports would be behind closed doors, perhaps stadiums could open small sections with families allowed to sit next to each other but nobody in the next 2 or 3 seats around them.

When I try to imagine how the world continues without a virus or without immunity then it's hard to see how the economy or life can even get close to how it was last year.
We started lockdown on 24 March. If you assume that it takes 1 month between infection and death, that would mean the losses of life since 25 April all happened due to people catching C19 during lockdown. That number is ~9000 people.

Assuming a CFR of 0.5%, this means that about 1.8m people caught the disease since the start of lockdown in the space of 16 days.

I know that this is very much a rough and ready estimate, but that means about 100k people caught covid-19 every day on average during lockdown.

If the r0 continues to hover around 1.0 and the rate of spread stays about the same, it'll take around 14 months for the UK to reach herd immunity. Obviously, r0 might drop as people become more knowledgable about the disease and adapt their behaviour. But that could be cancelled out as the overall number of infected increases and/or the populace becomes increasingly complacent about distancing. It's too early to say for certain how things will turn out. But looking at the way Brits have handled lockdown so far, I'd lean towards the latter scenario being the overriding factor.

If we want to save lives, we need to isolate the vulnerable. If we want to end the crisis, we need to reach herd immunity. Luckily, those two solutions aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.
 
My wife is pregnant and is shielding for 12 weeks. Do I still go to work? From people I’ve asked, I’ve got mixed responses.
Presumably she is shielding due to a pre-existing condition, not just the pregnancy?
 
He only ever answers half a question.

Laura k - explain why i can see co workers at work but i cant see my granny.

He didnt once address the family issue part of that question.
 
No. What a weird way to interpret what I wrote. I’m arguing that controlled spread might be better than complete eradication. In the very long term.

Is it easier to control the spread with;

- A knowledgeable public
- 3-9 months of experience
- Large data sets
- Experiences/Case studies from across the globe
- Treatments to stunt severity
- Fully stocked and prepared hospitals

Or easier without those things?

Apologies if I’m addressing the wrong issue and you think Nz’s plan is to shut down borders until Covid is gone. Which it isn’t.
 
Oh man, an absolute dickhead on my Facebook has been arguing about how clear Boris’ message was and how only idiots can’t understand the rules. He’s now just said that he will be going to see his Dad in his garden as he will be socially distancing and Boris has made it clear this is allowed and no longer prohibited.
 
Is it easier to control the spread with;

- A knowledgeable public
- 3-9 months of experience
- Large data sets
- Experiences/Case studies from across the globe
- Treatments to stunt severity
- Fully stocked and prepared hospitals

Or easier without those things?

Apologies if I’m addressing the wrong issue and you think Nz’s plan is to shut down borders until Covid is gone. Which it isn’t.

You’ve such a bizarre way of “debating”. First you completely misrepresent what I said, then you go off on a tangent asking me a load of questions that have feck all to do with anything being discussed. I’ve seen you take a similar approach with loads of people. It comes across as quite childish.

What do you get out of posting on redcafe? Are you only interested in trying to score points? Have you ever considered trying to understand a different point of view? Or think hard about the points being made that you initially disagree with? If you’ve any intention of ever trying to adjust your style this thread would be a good place to start. If not, then you should probably keep your straw men for stupid arguments about football.

EDIT: to address your tangent. Every single one of those bullet points can still happen with ongoing controlled spread in any given country. Not a single one of them requires viral eradication to happen first. You know this, though. Surely?
 
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He only ever answers half a question.

Laura k - explain why i can see co workers at work but i cant see my granny.

He didnt once address the family issue part of that question.



We're missing our first grandaughter who lives in the UK so much that it hurts.

We were hoping that by now we could have got a flight to the UK and had a couple of weeks with her.

On the other hand, Frau FBR made a comment that her POW father didn't return from the USA to the Fatherland until 1947 - by which time, her elser sister was five years old and he'd never even seen her until then, so our three months to date isn't even on the same scale yet....
 
Oh man, an absolute dickhead on my Facebook has been arguing about how clear Boris’ message was and how only idiots can’t understand the rules. He’s now just said that he will be going to see his Dad in his garden as he will be socially distancing and Boris has made it clear this is allowed and no longer prohibited.
He just said thats ok. One on one from other households is fine if social distancing outside is adhered to
 
Good question from the teacher there about mixing with students but not her parents, unfortunately all she got back for an answer was a load of waffle.
Another good question was because ive no childcare and school.isnt starting to june what do i do if my employer wants me back?

He didnt fecking answer it
 
Surprised no one has asked about Furlough my CEO is already hinting if it isnt increased more people are being made redundant
 
you can not visit another household. It has to be in a park.
Did he not just say outside? Like on the street or in the front garden?

Edit i see the guy on after said in the park.

Basically it has to be a neutral venue haha
 
He initially said 3 months i think. March April May.

Cant see him extending it past that at the same 80 percent, 2.5k

I wonder if they will just keep it for those that he has specifically told to stay shut eg cinema people etc but that will leave a lot more questions
 
Another good question was because ive no childcare and school.isnt starting to june what do i do if my employer wants me back?

He didnt fecking answer it
He hasn't got an answer for it and hasn't had one all along as anyone in the manufacturing or construction industry who had to still work but couldn't get childcare pretty much had the choice to take holidays or unpaid leave.