SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[buchansleftleg]

So apparently my office has reopened and they are getting some people back, I don't know if it's those who have been furloughed or people who have been wfh. It would make sense to just have the furloughed people in the office and keep the rest wfh but it sounds like some who have been wfh are returning

Hoping I can fly under the radar and stay wfh.

If they try and push you back...ask your employer for the following...

Confirmation of when the office / workspace was deep cleaned with antiseptic / antibacterial spray since the building was re-opened if it has been shut during the lockdown period.

Confirmation that all working surfaces, including phones / keyboards / door handles etc have been disinfected by a professional cleaning company and a copy of their guarantees.

A copy of the most upto date risk assessment for your role, detailing if any further protective equipment such as a clear screen, wearable PPE is required and measures put in place to make sure you do not have to move within 2 metres of anyone in your role.

A written copy of a flexible working / business case review stating why your role can no longer be done as working from home under the present circumstances and why your presence in the office is required even if it may increase your potential exposure to a Notifiable disease

That should push you right down the pile of people they ask to try and come back first.

 

[NYAS]

I'd love to live in a society that allowed people to mostly do what they want but as can be seen in situations like this there are a minority of people who cannot be trusted. If we just say 'use your common sense' you'll have people who either don't have any or you'll have people who do but don't care and decide to do it anyway. Hence you have situations where there are massive queues. If people and places were more sensible i.e online ticketing for gyms or pubs (I know it takes away one of the best things about a pub - spontaneous trip) it can hopefully limit things like this happening.

You (and I, now) will get flamed on here for having that view, however you are right, and I wouldn’t even say it’s a minority.

People in general are extremely dumb and selfish. It’s how you end up with people like Trump voted into presidency. And I say that as someone who leans conservative.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

More that reaching herd immunity was possibly the only way out of being in perpetual lockdown. I brought up the exit strategy of the likes of Singapore and South Korea a few times, but perhaps not in the explicit way you're doing now.

Ok, yeah, fair enough. You probably did. @Regulus Arcturus Black was definitely making very similar points.

Just to repeat myself, I’m not criticising NZ. They’ve done an amazing job. Right now I’d much rather be living there than where I am. I don’t think countries that have been less effective than them at suppressing spread have done so as part of a clever strategy. They’ve just been less good at trying to do what NZ achieved.

In the long term, though, you do wonder if completely eradicating the virus so quickly might not look like the best approach, with hindsight. Time will tell.

 

[United Hobbit]

If they try and push you back...ask your employer for the following...

Confirmation of when the office / workspace was deep cleaned with antiseptic / antibacterial spray since the building was re-opened if it has been shut during the lockdown period.

Confirmation that all working surfaces, including phones / keyboards / door handles etc have been disinfected by a professional cleaning company and a copy of their guarantees.

A copy of the most upto date risk assessment for your role, detailing if any further protective equipment such as a clear screen, wearable PPE is required and measures put in place to make sure you do not have to move within 2 metres of anyone in your role.

A written copy of a flexible working / business case review stating why your role can no longer be done as working from home under the present circumstances and why your presence in the office is required even if it may increase your potential exposure to a Notifiable disease

That should push you right down the pile of people they ask to try and come back first.

Nice one thank you I have an email saved that i sent to them at the start of this asking why they weren't doing more to get people wfh nice screen shotted your post ready for when I need to compose the inevitable email!

 

[stevoc]

I’ve been thinking about this a bit recently. What are the long term prospects for countries like NZ and Aus that stop spread completely? If they effectively banish the virus from their countries that’s great news in the short term but if a vaccine takes several years (which is a definite possibility) then countries that have had a constant trickle of cases will likely be able to get back to a relatively normal way of life while “virus free” countries are completely shut off from the rest of the world, under the constant threat of another lockdown.

If it turns out that a safe/effective vaccine is NEVER going to happen (which is also possible) then they’re absolutely fecked. What would their strategy be then?

They would probably have to adopt 14-21 day quarantine measures for people entering the country permanently, wouldn't they?

In that scenario tourism would obviously take a massive hit but they might become the world's go to virus free haven.

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

https://assets.publishing.service.g..._HMG_C19_Recovery_FINAL_110520_v2_WEB__1_.pdf

The 50 page document

 

[buchansleftleg]

Nice one thank you I have an email saved that i sent to them at the start of this asking why they weren't doing more to get people wfh nice screen shotted your post ready for when I need to compose the inevitable email!

No Problem - Of course you will just be raising these issues as a concerned employee wanting to re-assure that member of your family who may need to continue to be "shielded" that your work have done everything they can to reduce any risk of you bringing home any infection to them.

 

[buchansleftleg]

https://assets.publishing.service.g..._HMG_C19_Recovery_FINAL_110520_v2_WEB__1_.pdf

The 50 page document

I wonder if it should get checked and see if they have copied and pasted it from some other countries plan??

 

[P-Nut]

https://assets.publishing.service.g..._HMG_C19_Recovery_FINAL_110520_v2_WEB__1_.pdf

The 50 page document

Seems the vulnerable advice has got no update and is still end of June, apart from one sentanve that says it is likely to be extended. Hopefully they don't extend it the day before it ending and at least give some guidance in advance, tall order I know.

 

[P-Nut]

It is actually in the document about only meeting up with one member from outside your household. I thought that might be a confused message relaying, but it is actually in the documentation.

Page 27 under public spaces for anyone wanting to find it.

 

[horsechoker]

I wonder if it should get checked and see if they have copied and pasted it from some other countries plan??

I was wondering why a section was written in German

 

[Pogue Mahone]

https://assets.publishing.service.g..._HMG_C19_Recovery_FINAL_110520_v2_WEB__1_.pdf

The 50 page document

That’s amazing. The details on exiting lockdown are just as vague as BoJo’s speech!

We had a similar document in Ireland and - like a lot of people - I jumped straight to the ‘sports’ section to see how soon my kids could start training again. There was very clear guidance on exactly that. A step by step explanation of the phased return to (relative) normality. With detail on numbers of participants, when you can play your first friendly match and which sports take longer than others to get going (golf early, rugby last)

Absolutely nothing useful in the UK guidance on this issue. The whole thing is is long on waffle and prevarication but astonishingly short on detail. It’s almost as though Bojo himself wrote it

 

[Lay]

My wife is pregnant and is shielding for 12 weeks. Do I still go to work? From people I’ve asked, I’ve got mixed responses.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It is actually in the document about only meeting up with one member from outside your household. I thought that might be a confused message relaying, but it is actually in the documentation.

Page 27 under public spaces for anyone wanting to find it.

I saw that and immediately wondered if that detail was added after the Raab-fuelled clusterfeck this morning. God knows the rest of it is seriously lacking in that level of detail!

 

[groovyalbert]

Assuming I'm not alone in being more nervous about going out than I was 24 hours ago. Hardly the effect I think BoJo wanted.

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ng/how-to-wear-and-make-a-cloth-face-covering

guidance on how to make and wear face coverings for those who choose to wear them.

 

[Brownie85]

https://assets.publishing.service.g..._HMG_C19_Recovery_FINAL_110520_v2_WEB__1_.pdf

The 50 page document

After reading that i'm really non the wiser on this whole thing.

I'm wondering if they're making it as vague as possible so when the second wave inevitably arrives, they can blame the public saying we should have used our common sense.

 

[redshaw]

Tweet

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[Arruda]

People in Azores are firmly believing we can get back to normal by isolating ourselves from the virus.

It's absurd. Cutting off all contact from the exterior has huge complications. Forgetting the economic implications, how does a 240k region survives without some highly qualified technicians coming here every once in while? Factories, sophisticated hospital machines, etc, all need specialized maintenance. Plus a lot of sick people who need oncologic surgeries and radiotherapy which is performed by doctors from the outside that travel here... Should our sick people just leave to the continent to be treated and never return?

We, like everyone else, will have to live with the virus. It's great we showed we can contain it, at a time on which we were uncertain if it would overwhelm our hospitals too. But now it has been apparently erradicated, people are just becoming xenophobic to any kind of travel.

And the government, knowing that is impossible to apply (we're still part of Portugal and they won't allow full isolation), pretends it wants it too so it can capitalize on xenophobic sentiment in the next elections.

I'm disgusted with people and politics.

 

[T00lsh3d]

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I understand queuing up at a lot of places when they are reopening. But at the gym in the middle of the night?

People just can’t wait to give their chest a good workout

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

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[freeurmind]

Still only 16 cases here in Namibia, no deaths. Lockdown has been eased though alcohol sales are still banned which is driving people mad.

 

[TheGame]

This is brilliant, Bridgen torn a new one.

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[freeurmind]

My wife is pregnant and is shielding for 12 weeks. Do I still go to work? From people I’ve asked, I’ve got mixed responses.

Do you have the option of staying elsewhere in the meantime?

 

[Infra-red]

Why have France been excluded from the passenger quarantine rules for travel in to the UK? Completely stupid and leaves an obvious loophole - get to France from anywhere in the world and then fly to the UK = no need to quarantine when you arrive in the UK.

 

[Jippy]

https://assets.publishing.service.g..._HMG_C19_Recovery_FINAL_110520_v2_WEB__1_.pdf

The 50 page document

The Sun kept going on about the document's length as if it was War and Peace...or actually included useful, detail guidance.

 

[lynchie]

Our region (Marche) now has the lowest R-number of all regions in Italy, at 0.29. This is a great result, as we were up there with the worst 4 or 5 regions a few weeks ago. We still can't travel freely between regions, and that seems to be working.

I feel incredibly jealous that you have this data available to you. It's the same whenever Germany report that their R-number has gone from 0.8 to 1.1 (or whatever). In the UK we get "it's somewhere between 0.5 (pretty good) and 0.9 (close to disaster)" with no indication of any variation across localities or settings. I realise this is in part due to the UK's failure to test effectively, but it just annoys me that the government don't give us the data to stay informed.

 

[Penna]

Why have France been excluded from the passenger quarantine rules for travel in to the UK? Completely stupid and leaves an obvious loophole - take a train to Paris/Lille and jump on the Eurostar = no need to quarantine when you arrive in the UK.

I'm assuming it's due to the extra risk of air travel, what with the circulating air etc.

 

[Penna]

I feel incredibly jealous that you have this data available to you. It's the same whenever Germany report that their R-number has gone from 0.8 to 1.1 (or whatever). In the UK we get "it's somewhere between 0.5 (pretty good) and 0.9 (close to disaster)" with no indication of any variation across localities or settings. I realise this is in part due to the UK's failure to test effectively, but it just annoys me that the government don't give us the data to stay informed.

There is a lot of detailed info here. People who've died in the province are listed by age, gender and any underlying health conditions, plus by comune of residence.

 

[lynchie]

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I'm pretty dubious of that number of deaths. There were 209 announced just in England today. I know there's a weekend backlog today, but to only pick up on 1 further death in Wales, Scotland and NI?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The Sun kept going on about the document's length as if it was War and Peace...or actually included useful, detail guidance.

It’s incredible. Like a school project by my lazy arse 11 year old son. The chapters get shorter as he gets closer to the end and increasingly distracted by the chance to feck off and get on his PS4.

Look at the way they go through the different section headings for Step One of the “roadmap”, then apparently can’t be arsed keeping up that level of detail for the Steps Two or Three. Too much typing, evidently.

I know we’re all sick to death of Brexit but it’s impossible not to be reminded of the various meetings between eurocrats - weighed down with heavy lever arch folders crammed full of documents - sitting across the table from the Conservative party’s finest, clutching a pen and a few sheets of paper.

When your leaders can’t or won’t do detail that sort of seat of your pants, lazy bollox will end up permeating the whole apparatus. And right now, details REALLY matter.

 

[Pagh Wraith]

My wife is pregnant and is shielding for 12 weeks. Do I still go to work? From people I’ve asked, I’ve got mixed responses.

Different country, but a friend of mine with a pregnant girlfriend has been going to the office every day for the entire duration of the pandemic. She's overdue now and he's just waiting for the phone call.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I'm pretty dubious of that number of deaths. There were 209 announced just in England today. I know there's a weekend backlog today, but to only pick up on 1 further death in Wales, Scotland and NI?

Maybe they have stopped speaking to us.

 

[JPRouve]

Why have France been excluded from the passenger quarantine rules for travel in to the UK? Completely stupid and leaves an obvious loophole - get to France from anywhere in the world and then fly to the UK = no need to quarantine when you arrive in the UK.

Practically it would be difficult since there is next to no flights in France, we are still in lockdown and the reasons to travel are limited in particular in regions that are still stringently locked like Paris. I don't know about trains and ferries though.

 

[hp88]

My wife is pregnant and is shielding for 12 weeks. Do I still go to work? From people I’ve asked, I’ve got mixed responses.

One of the guys on my team is also due to be father so he's off for the time being. Guess it all depends on the employer and whether or not you can work form home.

 

[berbatrick]

There's a really dangerous game being played here

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[Kentonio]

Why have France been excluded from the passenger quarantine rules for travel in to the UK? Completely stupid and leaves an obvious loophole - get to France from anywhere in the world and then fly to the UK = no need to quarantine when you arrive in the UK.

France included Britain along with the Schengen countries on its list of nations it will be allowing movement to resume with. This is probably a reciprocation of that. People can't just fly into France from anywhere in the world, if they do they will be quarantined for 2 weeks before being allowed to continue travel.

 

[Brownie85]

So Boris has basically confirmed that his lock down relaxation plan is largely dependent on the common sense of the British public, then goes on to say were at a delicate point where one wrong move could be disastrous... Yep, definitely looks to me that the government are looking to pin the second wave on the public as to devoid them of responsibility

 

[Deery]

Going by what Boris is saying everything should near enough be back to normal by July, seems a bit quick to me.

 

[groovyalbert]

Going by what Boris is saying everything should near enough be back to normal by July, seems a bit quick to me.

Yup, and don't expect any financial support next time - we told you so!