Could they void the PL due to the Coronavirus? | No | Resuming June 17th

[LordNinio]

You must have said about a thousand times in this thread. ‘Cancel the season but give Liverpool the title’ . That is basically saying null and void for 19 clubs but Liverpool can have their title. How are they supposed to fix promotions and relegations when they don’t finish the season? Do you really think clubs will accept relegation and promotion based on factors outside of playing actual matches.

What the heck? What are you not getting here? Why would people who don’t watch football say or think that football would boost theirs or others morale.
I don’t care about cricket. If I was asked “would cricket boost your morale”? I would say “would it feck” because I don’t care about cricket.
I would be a member of the public but the question would be daft because I don’t like or care about cricket.
As ive already stated asking football fans only would that poll then carry any weight because as we’ve seen through this thread. Not every football fan is behind the idea of football returning. In fact a significant amount are not.

I agree with @90 + 5min here. If the government is going to say that bringing back football will be a morale boost to the people of the UK, which is what they've been saying, then a poll should include people from all walks of life. They aren't saying it will be a boost to football fans, they're saying it will be a boost to the people of the UK.

You can't just ask football fans, as they have a biased opinion.

I see what you're saying about only asking football fans, to see if they want it back, that is a relevant separate poll. But in order to gauge the morale boost to the people of the country you need to ask a good cross section of those people.

 

[Pexbo]

Inevitable announcement. Pretty much every other country is either allowing for non essential industries to open (which includes sport) or stating it will happen in a month or so (in England, Spain and Italy’s case)

Now that over the last week several other European nations have announced the return of football, the early anti PL sentiments in this thread have faded. Which I never understood in the first place to be honest.

Rather bizarrely we still have the likes of @90 + 5min @Sky1981 still talking about null and void and how football shouldn’t be restarted. The ship has long sailed lads. It’s happening or at the very least there’s going to be considerable effort to make it happen.

Guess we now just wait and see.......

On a seperate note. Much earlier in this thread i said McDonalds would not be able to protect their staff to the level the PL intended to do and I was ridiculed. I won’t @ anybody but I do hope these people read the following.
Here’s an article

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....ambles-uber-eats-delivery-driver-22026858.amp



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/metr...st-day-reopening-since-lockdown-12697994/amp/

So they can’t stay two metres apart because there are far too many drivers queuing because McDonalds are having so many orders, because obviously what the nation needs right now as we begin our bid to become healthier is to stuff everyone’s faces with McDonalds.

The theory and planning is sound enough and I appreciate why they are ploughing ahead like they are but in practice its not going to happen.


Restrictions relaxed yesterday despite cases and deaths barely reducing and inevitably we are going to see a spike in cases and deaths again and that is likely going to happen around the time this is all due to kick off.

I have absolutely zero doubt whatsoever that we are going to see another Arteta situation, likely at multiple clubs, the whole thing will he put on hold once again with players refusing to risk their own health and the health of their families. If they are following government guidelines on track and trace, a single case will see entire squads and coaching staff forced into self isolation.


It‘s all well and good that they try to get it going again but if they have any respect for players and staff health and any respect for the guidelines the rest of the country must abide by then it’s a logistical impossibility.

 

[stevoc]

Not that the poll matters or should even be used but who exactly were they asking?
Was it football fans or just general members of the public. I suspect it’s the latter which would then make that poll completely irrelevant.

It was a poll to gauge the general public's feelings on the potential return of football.

So obviously they were going to ask the general public and not just football fans.

 

[Sky1981]

@Leroy The Red

Do tell me what do you think will happen in the next few weeks of football being started. Humor me.

You really think they could finish 90 games behind closed door?

And dont you hide behind the government and expert knows best. I just wanted to know what you think will happen. Personally

 

[Finn MacCool]

We should start lobbying to get the FA Cup restarted. I'll be surprised if this completes - are looking at 8 footy packed weekends supposedly.

And the trophy being presented inside an empty Anfield.

Altho neutral grounds remains possible too.

What a farce.

If they get the PL completed (I’m not convinced they will - c19 not under any sort of control in England) the FA cup could be finished in a single week. Quarters on a Saturday, semis on Wednesday and final on Saturday. The final rounds of a domestic cup competition played like this, albeit without fans, would be unique and might start a conversation about how the competition could be improved via a revamp. However the FA cup is steeped in tradition so it might be difficult to gets the suits at the FA to change anything.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

Inevitable announcement. Pretty much every other country is either allowing for non essential industries to open (which includes sport) or stating it will happen in a month or so (in England, Spain and Italy’s case)

Now that over the last week several other European nations have announced the return of football, the early anti PL sentiments in this thread have faded. Which I never understood in the first place to be honest.

Rather bizarrely we still have the likes of @90 + 5min @Sky1981 still talking about null and void and how football shouldn’t be restarted. The ship has long sailed lads. It’s happening or at the very least there’s going to be considerable effort to make it happen.

Guess we now just wait and see.......

On a seperate note. Much earlier in this thread i said McDonalds would not be able to protect their staff to the level the PL intended to do and I was ridiculed. I won’t @ anybody but I do hope these people read the following.
Here’s an article

I could never understand the 'just call the season off' sentiment on on here, in an industry that can put so many more layers of protection in place than the average bod who is now returning to work could ever dream of, why was it ever in doubt that it would get to this point.

People just seem to seem to think football needs to take some sort of moral stand here, but they will look mighty silly if they miss finishing this season over the potential calm of the next 2-3 months, and instead put all their focus on next season just to time it perfectly with a second peak, that by all accounts will be worse than this one. I'm not too sure they'll be too many clubs that can ride that one out with just the 'look to be doing the right thing' tag to hang their hat on.

 

[peridigm]

Inevitable announcement. Pretty much every other country is either allowing for non essential industries to open (which includes sport) or stating it will happen in a month or so (in England, Spain and Italy’s case)

Now that over the last week several other European nations have announced the return of football, the early anti PL sentiments in this thread have faded. Which I never understood in the first place to be honest.

Rather bizarrely we still have the likes of @90 + 5min @Sky1981 still talking about null and void and how football shouldn’t be restarted. The ship has long sailed lads. It’s happening or at the very least there’s going to be considerable effort to make it happen.

Guess we now just wait and see.......

On a seperate note. Much earlier in this thread i said McDonalds would not be able to protect their staff to the level the PL intended to do and I was ridiculed. I won’t @ anybody but I do hope these people read the following.
Here’s an article

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....ambles-uber-eats-delivery-driver-22026858.amp



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/metr...st-day-reopening-since-lockdown-12697994/amp/

So they can’t stay two metres apart because there are far too many drivers queuing because McDonalds are having so many orders, because obviously what the nation needs right now as we begin our bid to become healthier is to stuff everyone’s faces with McDonalds.

I don't get the 3rd party food delivery craze. Beyond the person that preps my food at a restaurant in what I hope is ideal conditions, no way in hell I want some stranger being paid peanuts picking up my food and driving it to me. Feck that.

 

[Ludens the Red]

No, it is not null and void. Tell me how you also include TheFA cup and Europa League/Champions League games (when required 14-day quarantine after every away game?). When should this season end? Tell me what you do with contracts that expire (Just look at EFL with over 1000 players in the last month now) ? Sponsors that changes from a certain date? With next season league? With EFL and other teams? Only fraction of problems.

It is not wrong. This virus is something we are all part of. Why would it be ok for only fans to vote? Why would you ask a small Group of people if football would be moral booster? Let me than ask you, is it okey to open nightlubs, pubs, restaurants and other places that some other people think are moral booster? According to you it would be ok. So let us all start cheering for goverment to open it. Or is it so that you are making difference between people and people?

I don't have the answers to that? My argument has always and only been that football will return once suitable and that they would attempt to finish the season, I have never gotten into the specifics because as you can see by this thread nobody has a clue, it's just guess work. I think constantly speculating about this and that would just drive you mad. You being the perfect example of that.

I agree with @90 + 5min here. If the government is going to say that bringing back football will be a morale boost to the people of the UK, which is what they've been saying, then a poll should include people from all walks of life. They aren't saying it will be a boost to football fans, they're saying it will be a boost to the people of the UK.

You can't just ask football fans, as they have a biased opinion.

I see what you're saying about only asking football fans, to see if they want it back, that is a relevant separate poll. But in order to gauge the morale boost to the people of the country you need to ask a good cross section of those people.

But its completely stupid to even ask the general public, just as stupid as it was for the government to make the statement . It literally makes zero sense to ask random members of the public if football would boost morale, I mean why the hell would it?

You say you cant just ask football fans they have a biased opinion (this is actually not the case with this thread being a perfect example), so what on earth kind of opinion do you think non football fans would have? I just think the whole thing is a nonsense and shouldn't be used for point scoring/proving for or against because its completely nonsensical. And my response was only because a poster tried to use it to make a point.

The theory and planning is sound enough and I appreciate why they are ploughing ahead like they are but in practice its not going to happen.


Restrictions relaxed yesterday despite cases and deaths barely reducing and inevitably we are going to see a spike in cases and deaths again and that is likely going to happen around the time this is all due to kick off.

I have absolutely zero doubt whatsoever that we are going to see another Arteta situation, likely at multiple clubs, the whole thing will he put on hold once again with players refusing to risk their own health and the health of their families. If they are following government guidelines on track and trace, a single case will see entire squads and coaching staff forced into self isolation.


It‘s all well and good that they try to get it going again but if they have any respect for players and staff health and any respect for the guidelines the rest of the country must abide by then it’s a logistical impossibility.

This is all worse case scenario based stuff though, again with the 'single case will see entire squads isolated', it's been said already that isn't going to happen. It's also failing to take into account the fact this is how things are going to be from now on. The virus isnt going anywhere, you cant just keep saying "we cant do this because this person is at risk and this persons family is at risk". The risk is there forever, everywhere, footballers will be doing things other than going to play matches that carry risk.
The rest of the population will be doing the same. Mcd's have opened for five minutes and already they are failing miserably at adhering to safety measures and nobody is batting an eyelid. Football is telling you they're going to do this and this and this and that and still people are coming out with "footballers lives and their families are at risk".
And what's the Arteta situation? You say that as if it was a big thing. One person at Arsenal caught the corona virus, that person had zero symptoms and fully recovered, nobody else at Arsenal tested positive. I would say if we got another 'Arteta Situation' that would be fantastic all round.

 

[montpelier]

If they get the PL completed (I’m not convinced they will - c19 not under any sort of control in England) the FA cup could be finished in a single week. Quarters on a Saturday, semis on Wednesday and final on Saturday. The final rounds of a domestic cup competition played like this, albeit without fans, would be unique and might start a conversation about how the competition could be improved via a revamp. However the FA cup is steeped in tradition so it might be difficult to gets the suits at the FA to change anything.

That's a pretty good idea. It's the 55 meaningless games, let's just restart pretending everything is fine now stance that gets me snarking.

When things get back to normal, that kind of condensed finish to a Cup competition could be a really good idea.

 

[Ludens the Red]

I could never understand the 'just call the season off' sentiment on on here, in an industry that can put so many more layers of protection in place than the average bod who is now returning to work could ever dream of, why was it ever in doubt that it would get to this point.

People just seem to seem to think football needs to take some sort of moral stand here, but they will look mighty silly if they miss finishing this season over the potential calm of the next 2-3 months, and instead put all their focus on next season just to time it perfectly with a second peak, that by all accounts will be worse than this one. I'm not too sure they'll be too many clubs that can ride that one out with just the 'look to be doing the right thing' tag to hang their hat on.

Yep, that's what I think the underlying feelings are. Football at root is still just seen as 'eleven men kicking a ball around'. And as long as the coronavirus is in peoples thoughts they will be against its return. Some may try and throw up other reasons but once argued against it'll come back to the notion of "people are dying football shouldn't be played".

Which takes me to what @peridigm says below, it seems the nations moral outrage is not only misguided and misplaced but they are responsible for and ignoring things that they should be morally outraged by. Case in point Mcdonalds. All this moral outrage from the general public about football returning, meanwhile these same members of public actively order on mass, unhealthy food from a billion pound industry whilst hundreds of delivery drivers (most of whom are foreigners) stand barely a metre apart from each other with inadequate PPE and on piss poor pay, queuing outside these fast food restaurants just so these same members of public can have a fecking cheeseburger and mcflurry. I've been looking on twitter all week for the outrage and I've seen nothing, all I've seen is people bragging about getting Mcd's. It's fecking grotesque. Can you imagine the outrage if the PL had staff members squashed together lined up outside grounds waiting to come into work?

All this faux moral outrage about football returning, it's hilariously hypocritical but not surprising, these sort of attitudes are rank in modern day society. It's all picking and choosing what it is you want to care or being outraged by, mostly based on selfish reasons and how it makes you 'look'. From the same sort of place where people can't do a good deed in modern day society without taking a picture of it and plastering it all over their Instagram account.

I don't get the 3rd party food delivery craze. Beyond the person that preps my food at a restaurant in what I hope is ideal conditions, no way in hell I want some stranger being paid peanuts picking up my food and driving it to me. Feck that.

 

[Santoryo]

Yep, that's what I think the underlying feelings are. Football at root is still just seen as 'eleven men kicking a ball around'. And as long as the coronavirus is in peoples thoughts they will be against its return. Some may try and throw up other reasons but once argued against it'll come back to the notion of "people are dying football shouldn't be played".

Which takes me to what @peridigm says below, it seems the nations moral outrage is not only misguided and misplaced but they are responsible for and ignoring things that they should be morally outraged by. Case in point Mcdonalds. All this moral outrage from the general public about football returning, meanwhile these same members of public actively order on mass, unhealthy food from a billion pound industry whilst hundreds of delivery drivers (most of whom are foreigners) stand barely a metre apart from each other with inadequate PPE and on piss poor pay, queuing outside these fast food restaurants just so these same members of public can have a fecking cheeseburger and mcflurry. I've been looking on twitter all week for the outrage and I've seen nothing, all I've seen is people bragging about getting Mcd's. It's fecking grotesque. Can you imagine the outrage if the PL had staff members squashed together lined up outside grounds waiting to come into work?

All this faux moral outrage about football returning, it's hilariously hypocritical but not surprising, these sort of attitudes are rank in modern day society. It's all picking and choosing what it is you want to care or being outraged by, mostly based on selfish reasons and how it makes you 'look'. From the same sort of place where people can't do a good deed in modern day society without taking a picture of it and plastering it all over their Instagram account.

And this is why you don't see me getting into these long debates with people on this matter. I already know most of all these faux outrages going on in this thread from most posters are just facade and hypocritical nonsense being thrown around. Most of these people you come across pretending to have concerns about the return of football and whatnot are doing so for selfish reasons rather than the supposedly concerns they have for the safety of others.

On these boards specifically, you have selfish reasons ranging from wanting to see the league voided and annulled at all cost to see Liverpool lose it all, to some simply maybe just hating football and reasons such as trying to present themselves as these morally superior fellows and trying to win social points in the eyes of other random internet blokes.

So when I see all these hypocrites picking and choosing what to complain about while pretending to do so as concerns for the safety of others when in truth it's to meet their own selfish impulses, I just roll my eyes and giggle to myself. I can see most of these guys for the hypocrites they are so I don't even bother engaging in long never ending debates.

There might be those who are genuinely concerned and I'm sure they are, and can't see how any football coming back right now is a good thing but I'm sure most are moaning about this whole football restarting for reasons I pointed above.

 

[montpelier]

And this is why you don't see me getting into these long debates with people on this matter. I already know most of all these faux outrages going on in this thread from most posters are just facade and hypocritical nonsense being thrown around. Most of these people you come across pretending to have concerns about the return of football and whatnot are doing so for selfish reasons rather than the supposedly concerns they have for the safety of others.

On these boards specifically, you have selfish reasons ranging from wanting to see the league voided and annulled at all cost to see Liverpool lose it all, to some simply maybe just hating football and reasons such as trying to present themselves as these morally superior fellows and trying to win social points in the eyes of other random internet blokes.

So when I see all these hypocrites picking and choosing what to complain about while pretending to do so as concerns for the safety of others when in truth it's to meet their own selfish impulses, I just roll my eyes and giggle to myself. I can see most of these guys for the hypocrites they are so I don't even bother engaging in long never ending debates.

There might be those who are genuinely concerned and I'm sure they are, and can't see how any football coming back right now is a good thing but I'm sure most are moaning about this whole football restarting for reasons I pointed above.

You seem to be posting mainly so you can speculatively snark against people with a different pov to the one you have.

 

[Redcy]

You seem to be posting mainly so you can speculatively snark against people with a different pov to the one you have.

Dont forget taking a non-existent moral high ground.

 

[redmeister]

So, I've been looking at the data that the NHS released today, regarding pre existing conditions and also the Manchester Uni study done which predicts the amount of infections we've had so far. It seems to to suggest that playing football in the Premier League, is way more dangerous to people in the age group of Premier League footballers, than Covid-19 is.

They think that 29% could have been infected. So if we go with about half that number and say 1/6th of the population has had the virus. Out those that had it, 75,000 were hospitalized and 95% of them had pre existing conditions. 20% of those in hospital were u45's.

So 15,000 U45's in hospital and only 10% (it says 5% but let's double it), were otherwise healthy. So 1500, based on 1/6th of the population. So if every healthy u45 in the country got it (which wont happen, as many already have and it wont spread like that) over the next 4 months, that would mean about 9000 hospitalizations out of 30 million people. So the odds are about 3333/1. There are about 500 Premier League footballers and at least 25 have to end up in hospital each season through bad injuries etc.

I know they are also worried about the potential of spreading to their young families, but in reality, if we were to worry about things that pose the same level of threat as Covid does, to young healthy people, then we'd never leave the house. By the end of April, only 360 people, under the age of 45 had died. Today's NHS data, say's 95% of those had pre existing conditions, the vast majority of which would have been known about. So that means less than 50 people who were either healthy, or unaware they had a pre existing illness, died. That's out of a population of 30,000,000. To put that in perspective, about 1000 people, under the age of 45, die in road accidents each year and we don't close the roads! 10,000 OAP's die of flu each year and we don't lock them down.

Surely the key is to have extremely strict social distancing observed towards vulnerable groups. If that is done, then there doesn't seem to be any reason why football (and society in general) can't resume. We don't need BCD, we can have crowds and they don't need to social distance, as long as it's all younger people, with stadiums policed and staffed by younger people. If your life is such, that you simply can't adhere to strict distancing from vulnerable groups, then you too are part of the vulnerable group.

Personally, having thought about it a lot since last night and the data I've read today, then I think we'd be far, far better off going into next Oct, with a large portion of younger, healthy, people already having had the virus. Football could lead the way. Crowds of 20,000 sitting next to each other, not spaced out. Unless you think a vaccine is around the corner, I can't think of a better strategy than a young person vanguard, in a move towards heard immunity.

 

[Dancfc]

Yep, that's what I think the underlying feelings are. Football at root is still just seen as 'eleven men kicking a ball around'. And as long as the coronavirus is in peoples thoughts they will be against its return. Some may try and throw up other reasons but once argued against it'll come back to the notion of "people are dying football shouldn't be played".

Which takes me to what @peridigm says below, it seems the nations moral outrage is not only misguided and misplaced but they are responsible for and ignoring things that they should be morally outraged by. Case in point Mcdonalds. All this moral outrage from the general public about football returning, meanwhile these same members of public actively order on mass, unhealthy food from a billion pound industry whilst hundreds of delivery drivers (most of whom are foreigners) stand barely a metre apart from each other with inadequate PPE and on piss poor pay, queuing outside these fast food restaurants just so these same members of public can have a fecking cheeseburger and mcflurry. I've been looking on twitter all week for the outrage and I've seen nothing, all I've seen is people bragging about getting Mcd's. It's fecking grotesque. Can you imagine the outrage if the PL had staff members squashed together lined up outside grounds waiting to come into work?

All this faux moral outrage about football returning, it's hilariously hypocritical but not surprising, these sort of attitudes are rank in modern day society. It's all picking and choosing what it is you want to care or being outraged by, mostly based on selfish reasons and how it makes you 'look'. From the same sort of place where people can't do a good deed in modern day society without taking a picture of it and plastering it all over their Instagram account.

To add to your example soaps have been cleared to return to filming in June with dramas like Line of Duty rumoured to be not that far behind, something that most likely carries more 'risk' than BCD football given it films internally and (I guess) won't have the same level of mass testing footballers will have access too.

No outrage either.

 

[Sad Chris]

Ok, so assuming we restart, can we expect to have a full set of rules regarding what happens next before we restart? If the season is stopped again, what will happen?

Each match could be like a final, because it could be the last match of the season and possibly push you into the CL or out of the relegation zone.

Reraising an issue brought up here earlier, could players of a team that has successfully limped out of the relegation zone be tempted to socially interact more with people to increase their chance of catching the virus and causing the season to be stopped and rewarded with the final table standing as it is?

Either way it would leave a lot of room for speculation if teams in 4th or 17th place tested positive and couldn‘t continue.

I think it‘ll get messy if the PL should resume. Even without the health risks I don‘t think it‘s a good idea to restart this season. Especially not without very clear statements about what will happen if and when.

 

[Bullhitter]

Seems like a good lad and speaks well on the topic. His views on relegation are fair - if all games are played then whoever is bottom should be relegated. If the PL is finished and the Championship isn't then it wouldn't be fair to relegate and promote teams - i agree with that too. Also in terms of coming back to play it isn't just about them as players but their respective home situations in terms of playing which is also very fair.

Really? I think his (and Webber the Norwich DOF who shares them) views on relegation are nothing short of laughable. he says it himself multiple times, you play your 38 PL games and if you're in the bottom three you deserve to be relegated. That's where your relevance to the PL other than parachute payments ends, like your done, see ya, bye. How, why or where newcomers to the PL is decided has nothing to do with you and certainly doesn't impact what he himself says multiple times is your fully deserved relegation.

It is just the next in line of pathetic attempts of relegation threatened sides trying to cling on by any means necessary now that their neutral venue angle has seemingly been taken off the table.

 

[Andi Latte]

Yep, that's what I think the underlying feelings are. Football at root is still just seen as 'eleven men kicking a ball around'. And as long as the coronavirus is in peoples thoughts they will be against its return. Some may try and throw up other reasons but once argued against it'll come back to the notion of "people are dying football shouldn't be played".

Which takes me to what @peridigm says below, it seems the nations moral outrage is not only misguided and misplaced but they are responsible for and ignoring things that they should be morally outraged by. Case in point Mcdonalds. All this moral outrage from the general public about football returning, meanwhile these same members of public actively order on mass, unhealthy food from a billion pound industry whilst hundreds of delivery drivers (most of whom are foreigners) stand barely a metre apart from each other with inadequate PPE and on piss poor pay, queuing outside these fast food restaurants just so these same members of public can have a fecking cheeseburger and mcflurry. I've been looking on twitter all week for the outrage and I've seen nothing, all I've seen is people bragging about getting Mcd's. It's fecking grotesque. Can you imagine the outrage if the PL had staff members squashed together lined up outside grounds waiting to come into work?

All this faux moral outrage about football returning, it's hilariously hypocritical but not surprising, these sort of attitudes are rank in modern day society. It's all picking and choosing what it is you want to care or being outraged by, mostly based on selfish reasons and how it makes you 'look'. From the same sort of place where people can't do a good deed in modern day society without taking a picture of it and plastering it all over their Instagram account.

That's a pretty convenient way to see things you've got here. McDonalds = shite, football = good, so people are hypocrites for not seeing it that way. Alright.

Another way of seeing it would be: Mcdonalds = food = essential; football = entertainment = not so much. And yeah, Mcdonalds may be unhealthy and stuff, it's still food, so honestly, I can see why this is a bit more accepted than bringing football back. I also suspect more people like to eat at McDonalds than watching football, but I may be wrong here.

Sure, it is not essential to order in such quantities that the above-mentioned congestions arise, that's just the human aspect of the whole thing. Here in Austria it was pretty much the same, as soon as things got opened, they were instantly crowded as if the people were barely able survive without their little conveniences up to that point. That's what you get, living in a consumer's society.

So yeah, I get that people want football back, so do I, but some of you guys have to understand that it still is just entertainment. And honestly, it's 2020, we have so many means of entertainment, we're drowning in it, we should be able to survive even without football.

What some of you also have to understand, everyone lives in his own little reality, everyone is right in his ways for himself. Just that some people's priorities lie elsewhere than one's own, doesn't make them hypocrites, it makes them pretty much just human. Even if they prefer McDonalds to football

 

[Sky1981]

And this is why you don't see me getting into these long debates with people on this matter. I already know most of all these faux outrages going on in this thread from most posters are just facade and hypocritical nonsense being thrown around. Most of these people you come across pretending to have concerns about the return of football and whatnot are doing so for selfish reasons rather than the supposedly concerns they have for the safety of others.

On these boards specifically, you have selfish reasons ranging from wanting to see the league voided and annulled at all cost to see Liverpool lose it all, to some simply maybe just hating football and reasons such as trying to present themselves as these morally superior fellows and trying to win social points in the eyes of other random internet blokes.

So when I see all these hypocrites picking and choosing what to complain about while pretending to do so as concerns for the safety of others when in truth it's to meet their own selfish impulses, I just roll my eyes and giggle to myself. I can see most of these guys for the hypocrites they are so I don't even bother engaging in long never ending debates.

There might be those who are genuinely concerned and I'm sure they are, and can't see how any football coming back right now is a good thing but I'm sure most are moaning about this whole football restarting for reasons I pointed above.

1st. I have stated many times, it's not about football. It's about saving lives. Give Liverpool the title, use PPG to relegate 3 teams , send 4 teams to CL/EL whatever there is, seal Liverpool title with an asterisk or not, I don't really object. Maybe that'll shut them up.

2nd. Stop thinking people hate football, you're making accusations just because you can't fathom that people has different views, and priority and moral outtake on football. And yes, it is 22 man chasing football for our amusement, let's not pretend it's some kind of society's paragon. I've spend close to 2 months staying at home with no work, and not going out. I'd love a full operational EPL, but not this forced farce attempt at calling this abomination football (no look tackle?)

3rd. Continuation of the league in times of ripe corona in UK that's not even showing any sign of slowing down, is asking for trouble. Even if we all don't know what will happen, to chalk them under "Scaremongering football hating selfish reason" is laughable. The only benefits this whole shenanigans served, is you guess who, Liverpool. Like I said, and have stated long before corona happened, they deserved the title, just give it to them. But give them the title without the hypocrisy of "for the sake of integrity and the well being of millions of people"

4th. The only hypocrites and selfish parties in this chat are Liverpool fans banding together, having the tenacity to call people who disagrees with them "closet football haters" and other names because we can't agree that it's not the time to play football just so that they can play 2 games to seal their title.

5th. If you honestly thinks Liverpool fans really care about "integrity" of the league if it's not happened to be their first title in 28 years then by all means watch this space, see how they changed their tune once they seal the title.

 

[Dancfc]

1st. I have stated many times, it's not about football. It's about saving lives. Give Liverpool the title, use PPG to relegate 3 teams , send 4 teams to CL/EL whatever there is, seal Liverpool title with an asterisk or not, I don't really object. Maybe that'll shut them up.

2nd. Stop thinking people hate football, you're making accusations just because you can't fathom that people has different views, and priority and moral outtake on football. And yes, it is 22 man chasing football for our amusement, let's not pretend it's some kind of society's paragon. I've spend close to 2 months staying at home with no work, and not going out. I'd love a full operational EPL, but not this forced farce attempt at calling this abomination football (no look tackle?)

That in bold is exactly why the theory came about in the first place, "22 men kicking a ball about" has for years been the go to phrase for people who hate football when they want to belittle it.

 

[Sky1981]

That in bold is exactly why the theory came about in the first place, "22 men kicking a ball about" has for years been the go to phrase for people who hate football when they want to belittle it.

This is the sort of logic trump supporter has, accused the other party of "Put qualm here", get a few friend together, shout louder.

They say if you repeat a lies often enough people will believe it. Voila, everyone that disagrees with you is fake news (opss... football hater)

 

[Sad Chris]

The clear fact is people are talking about the game with such distain that I simply don't see in any other sector.

How many forums of other sectors do you frequently visit and discuss on?

 

[Sky1981]

The irony of that statement given how you and the rest of the "don't bring football back" brigade have been acting, especially to the German members in here.

French league cancelled "precedent set". Bundesliga announces return "but, but, but"

The clear fact is people are talking about the game with such distain that I simply don't see in any other sector. It's one thing not wanting the game back for a while but remaining respectful it's another thing using phrases that have been used to belittle it for years.

Oh, even more finger pointing now, playing victim phase now?

Clear Fact? Disdain? Belittle?

All we're saying is that "We don't think it's safe to open football for now"

 

[Dancfc]

Oh, even more finger pointing now, playing victim phase now?

Clear Fact? Disdain? Belittle?

All we're saying is that "We don't think it's safe to open football for now"

The fact you're getting so defensive makes it all the more suspicious.

 

[tenpoless]

"Football haters" yet We're all here discussing football on a football forum.

 

[Cloud7]

That in bold is exactly why the theory came about in the first place, "22 men kicking a ball about" has for years been the go to phrase for people who hate football when they want to belittle it.

What exactly is football then? At it's core, is it not 22 men kicking a ball about? We just happen to enjoy watching it, because as a sport it's fun to watch and to play, but it really isn't more than just men kicking a ball around.

Similarly, the West Indies cricket team represented a lot for our region in the past, getting back at the former masters at their own game, and it still does represent a lot as it's the only team sport where my country really has a presence on the world stage, and I feel an immense sense of national pride watching them play, but if you ask me what cricket is, at the end of the day it's hitting a ball with a piece of wood and other people chasing after the ball.

It's not belittling a sport to state that it is exactly what it is. What it may represent varies from person to person, but what it represents doesn't change what it is.

 

[Righteous Steps]

What exactly is football then? At it's core, is it not 22 men kicking a ball about? We just happen to enjoy watching it, because as a sport it's fun to watch and to play, but it really isn't more than just men kicking a ball around.

Similarly, the West Indies cricket team represented a lot for our region in the past, getting back at the former masters at their own game, and it still does represent a lot as it's the only team sport where my country really has a presence on the world stage, and I feel an immense sense of national pride watching them play, but if you ask me what cricket is, at the end of the day it's hitting a ball with a piece of wood and other people chasing after the ball.

It's not belittling a sport to state that it is exactly what it is. What it may represent varies from person to person, but what it represents doesn't change what it is.

Nearly every facet of life can be described in such simple terms .

 

[Rooney24]

Football haters

who on here could possibly be described as a football hater ? A range of differing opinions and views, yes. That doesn’t make anyone a football hater.

feck me. Someone Ban these dicks.

 

[tenpoless]

Funny how now We are at the state of accusing one another. Let's be honest, by the end of the day, it's all about :

1. People who don't want Liverpool to win the league. They have an agenda against Liverpool. Void
2. People who don't want football back because They're shit scared that it would make the Pandemic worse. They want to make sure the Virus is well contained. They have a genuine concern about people's life and ultimately, also their life and loved ones. Void
3. People who want football back due to simple reason They need it, Their life must be boring right now. They have an agenda to prioritize themselves over others. Who cares if the health workers are struggling? me still can eat, it is boring and me want entertainment now. Resume
4. People who want football back because They want their clubs to be able sign players during transfer window or achieve whatever it is achievable (CL qualification, trophies, TV money). They have an agenda to prioritize their club over others. Resume

You can be 1 and 2, just as you can be 3 and 4. And unless if you are in the group of 2, and 2 ONLY. Shut the feck up and stop acting all mighty on your horse because by the end of the day you also have an agenda. And for people in group 3 especially, no need to call other people Football haters. Go play video games or find some hobbies to keep you busy.

I am 1 & 2 and yes I am biased. Feck Liverpool. I hate them but I don't hate football you numpty.

 

[Sky1981]

The fact you're getting so defensive makes it all the more suspicious.

You're a witch!

"no, we're not" Explains why

You're defensive, suspicious. Guilty

Er?

 

[redman5]

So, I've been looking at the data that the NHS released today, regarding pre existing conditions and also the Manchester Uni study done which predicts the amount of infections we've had so far. It seems to to suggest that playing football in the Premier League, is way more dangerous to people in the age group of Premier League footballers, than Covid-19 is.

They think that 29% could have been infected. So if we go with about half that number and say 1/6th of the population has had the virus. Out those that had it, 75,000 were hospitalized and 95% of them had pre existing conditions. 20% of those in hospital were u45's.

So 15,000 U45's in hospital and only 10% (it says 5% but let's double it), were otherwise healthy. So 1500, based on 1/6th of the population. So if every healthy u45 in the country got it (which wont happen, as many already have and it wont spread like that) over the next 4 months, that would mean about 9000 hospitalizations out of 30 million people. So the odds are about 3333/1. There are about 500 Premier League footballers and at least 25 have to end up in hospital each season through bad injuries etc.

I know they are also worried about the potential of spreading to their young families, but in reality, if we were to worry about things that pose the same level of threat as Covid does, to young healthy people, then we'd never leave the house. By the end of April, only 360 people, under the age of 45 had died. Today's NHS data, say's 95% of those had pre existing conditions, the vast majority of which would have been known about. So that means less than 50 people who were either healthy, or unaware they had a pre existing illness, died. That's out of a population of 30,000,000. To put that in perspective, about 1000 people, under the age of 45, die in road accidents each year and we don't close the roads! 10,000 OAP's die of flu each year and we don't lock them down.

Surely the key is to have extremely strict social distancing observed towards vulnerable groups. If that is done, then there doesn't seem to be any reason why football (and society in general) can't resume. We don't need BCD, we can have crowds and they don't need to social distance, as long as it's all younger people, with stadiums policed and staffed by younger people. If your life is such, that you simply can't adhere to strict distancing from vulnerable groups, then you too are part of the vulnerable group.

Personally, having thought about it a lot since last night and the data I've read today, then I think we'd be far, far better off going into next Oct, with a large portion of younger, healthy, people already having had the virus. Football could lead the way. Crowds of 20,000 sitting next to each other, not spaced out. Unless you think a vaccine is around the corner, I can't think of a better strategy than a young person vanguard, in a move towards heard immunity.

I posted a link a few days ago relating to an interview with Swedish epidemiologist Johan Giesecke in which he says - in quite a cold, manner-of-fact type of way - that there's nothing much we can do about this virus other than to let it pass, when eventually, as a by-product, herd immunity will take place. He, along with Steve Powis, medical director for the NHS, have both described covid-19 as a 'mild' disease. Seems a bit shocking I suppose when we're getting regular updates on deaths & number of new cases etc. But when you think about it, up to 650,000 people a year die from influenza, not forgetting that millions upon millions get the flu jab every year. Yet we don't get the same information overload drilled home to us day after day after day. It's sad, but it's generally accepted that elderly people, especially those with health problems, are at a much greater risk from dying from such a virus, be it normal flu or covid 19. This thing obviously caught everyone unawares & the initial lockdowns were correct insofar that it helped eased the burden on our NHS staff. But it's highly unlikely - even with a vaccine - that we'll ever eradicate this virus out of our lives completely, so there'll always be deaths occurring no matter what precautions we take.

It's interesting to note that Giesecke's country Sweden didn't implement the harsh lockdown we've seen here in the UK & other European countries. As far as I'm aware most schools were kept open along with some restaurants & bars. However, despite having a population of about 1/6th of the UK their death toll currently stands at around 3,500 with about 50% of those deaths happening in care homes. There may be reasons - such as socio-economic differences between the 2 countries - as to why there's a higher rate of deaths in the UK per100,000 people. But the evidence would suggest that maybe lockdowns don't really have that much of an impact. Social distancing probably will I imagine, but as for severely restricting people's movements, nah, I don't buy it. I've posted the follow up piece to the initial interview in which the editor gives a balanced summary to the 2 differing opinions from 2 experts in this field. Me personally I'm firmly in the Giesecke camp, & it's not because I want football back asap. I just want society to come out from behind the sofa & try to live their lives again. Provided they keep to a safe distance of course.

https://unherd.com/2020/04/which-epidemiologist-do-you-believe/

 

[Sky1981]

I posted a link a few days ago relating to an interview with Swedish epidemiologist Johan Giesecke in which he says - in quite a cold, manner-of-fact type of way - that there's nothing much we can do about this virus other than to let it pass, when eventually, as a by-product, herd immunity will take place. He, along with Steve Powis, medical director for the NHS, have both described covid-19 as a 'mild' disease. Seems a bit shocking I suppose when we're getting regular updates on deaths & number of new cases etc. But when you think about it, up to 650,000 people a year die from influenza, not forgetting that millions upon millions get the flu jab every year. Yet we don't get the same information overload drilled home to us day after day after day. It's sad, but it's generally accepted that elderly people, especially those with health problems, are at a much greater risk from dying from such a virus, be it normal flu or covid 19. This thing obviously caught everyone unawares & the initial lockdowns were correct insofar that it helped eased the burden on our NHS staff. But it's highly unlikely - even with a vaccine - that we'll ever eradicate this virus out of our lives completely, so there'll always be deaths occurring no matter what precautions we take.

It's interesting to note that Giesecke's country Sweden didn't implement the harsh lockdown we've seen here in the UK & other European countries. As far as I'm aware most schools were kept open along with some restaurants & bars. However, despite having a population of about 1/6th of the UK their death toll currently stands at around 3,500 with about 50% of those deaths happening in care homes. There may be reasons - such as socio-economic differences between the 2 countries - as to why there's a higher rate of deaths in the UK per100,000 people. But the evidence would suggest that maybe lockdowns don't really have that much of an impact. Social distancing probably will I imagine, but as for severely restricting people's movements, nah, I don't buy it. I've posted the follow up piece to the initial interview in which the editor gives a balanced summary to the 2 differing opinions from 2 experts in this field. Me personally I'm firmly in the Giesecke camp, & it's not because I want football back asap. I just want society to come out from behind the sofa & try to live their lives again. Provided they keep to a safe distance of course.

https://unherd.com/2020/04/which-epidemiologist-do-you-believe/

Evidence suggest lock down don't really have much impact

 

[Judas]

How is the bloke STILL being allowed to come in here and tell a message board of football fans that they secretly hate football and the true reality is they have a Dr Evil like agenda against it and want nothing more than to see its demise? it's as funny as it is truly peculiar.

 

[stevoc]

That in bold is exactly why the theory came about in the first place, "22 men kicking a ball about" has for years been the go to phrase for people who hate football when they want to belittle it.

So you're saying this bizarre this theory that life long football fans secretly hate football is based on one phrase?

 

[Tarrou]

I posted a link a few days ago relating to an interview with Swedish epidemiologist Johan Giesecke in which he says - in quite a cold, manner-of-fact type of way - that there's nothing much we can do about this virus other than to let it pass, when eventually, as a by-product, herd immunity will take place. He, along with Steve Powis, medical director for the NHS, have both described covid-19 as a 'mild' disease. Seems a bit shocking I suppose when we're getting regular updates on deaths & number of new cases etc. But when you think about it, up to 650,000 people a year die from influenza, not forgetting that millions upon millions get the flu jab every year. Yet we don't get the same information overload drilled home to us day after day after day. It's sad, but it's generally accepted that elderly people, especially those with health problems, are at a much greater risk from dying from such a virus, be it normal flu or covid 19. This thing obviously caught everyone unawares & the initial lockdowns were correct insofar that it helped eased the burden on our NHS staff. But it's highly unlikely - even with a vaccine - that we'll ever eradicate this virus out of our lives completely, so there'll always be deaths occurring no matter what precautions we take.

It's interesting to note that Giesecke's country Sweden didn't implement the harsh lockdown we've seen here in the UK & other European countries. As far as I'm aware most schools were kept open along with some restaurants & bars. However, despite having a population of about 1/6th of the UK their death toll currently stands at around 3,500 with about 50% of those deaths happening in care homes. There may be reasons - such as socio-economic differences between the 2 countries - as to why there's a higher rate of deaths in the UK per100,000 people. But the evidence would suggest that maybe lockdowns don't really have that much of an impact. Social distancing probably will I imagine, but as for severely restricting people's movements, nah, I don't buy it. I've posted the follow up piece to the initial interview in which the editor gives a balanced summary to the 2 differing opinions from 2 experts in this field. Me personally I'm firmly in the Giesecke camp, & it's not because I want football back asap. I just want society to come out from behind the sofa & try to live their lives again. Provided they keep to a safe distance of course.

https://unherd.com/2020/04/which-epidemiologist-do-you-believe/

comparing them to their close neighbours doesn't reflect so well on their strategy

Sweden has nearly 10 times the number of COVID-19-related deaths than its Nordic neighbors. Here's where it went wrong.

https://www.businessinsider.com/how...dled-coronavirus-differently-2020-4?r=US&IR=T

 

[Dancfc]

.

How is the bloke STILL being allowed to come in here and tell a message board of football fans that they secretly hate football and the true reality is they have a Dr Evil like agenda against it and want nothing more than to see its demise? it's as funny as it is truly peculiar.

And how are you allowed to sham people who want football back while showing clear desire for the big money transfer of Sancho in the hardest economic times for decades?

Funny how you repeatedly hide away when confronted with your shameless hypocrisy, no doubt the cowardly act is going to be repeated.

 

[Redcy]

comparing them to their close neighbours doesn't reflect so well on their strategy

Facts are not welcome thank you.

It’s almost like comparing to completely different companies with different geography and population density is nonsense.

I’m on the side of opening up, because that was always the plan, slow infection rates so our nhs can cope

 

[hasanejaz88]

Anyone seen the BBC article on how likely your job is to contracting the disease (using UK Office for Statistics)? Pretty interesting.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52637008

Sportsmen are amongst the lowest rank in terms of exposure to disease (243 out of 359 jobs) while being in the middle in terms of closeness to people (165 out of 359). Does point to there being lower risk for footballers compared to other common jobs like clerks (91 and 39), hairdressers (67 and 14), cashiers (83 and 79) and teachers (60 and 134).

 

[Judas]

.
And how are you allowed to sham people who want football back while showing clear desire for the big money transfer of Sancho in the hardest economic times for decades?

Funny how you repeatedly hide away when confronted with your shameless hypocrisy, no doubt the cowardly act is going to be repeated.

I want football back, when it makes sense, like every sane person on here. You are the made-up narrative king. I'm not hiding away, you're just a bizarre individual.

 

[Dancfc]

I want football back, when it makes sense, like every sane person on here. You are the made-up narrative king. I'm not hiding away, you're just a bizarre individual.

What and the "times right" to spend £100m when the countries facing economic hardship not seen in our lifetime? Again something you've bottled addressing.

Like I said, shameless hypocrite.