Don't get me wrong Pogba deserves criticisms because he was bad himself but Matic was dreadful and Fernandes was the worse probably the worse player on the field.
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Yeah I agree, I said Paul was awful but all of them were, to a man, with the exception of probably Greenwood for scoring the goal and having a bit of energy about him.
He wasn't in a wall.If TFM had time to turn his head then so did Pogba. Seriously, it's a stone wall penalty, and that's before you factor in the current extreme VAR rules where even if a ball is blasted at your hand in the penalty box from 1 yard it's a penalty.
I mean, have people not seen the hand ball penalties given this season?? If so then how the feck could you then say this one from Pogba is not be a pen?? C'mon it's a shocker.
I wouldn't even condone turning your head, if your in a wall then you are (or should be!) prepared to head the feckin ball. Are you seriously suggesting he was stood in a wall and didn't expect that the ball may come in his direction?
Yeah and Pogba is the exception on the bad side since he was the one giving a goal away.
Whaaat
Matic, the one who basically single-handly fended all the defensive duties of our whole midfield.
Bruno, the only one was actually trying to make something happen in our midfield. Run like crazy back and forth despite being totally and visibly knackered.
Pogba, walk here and there. Pass to Matic, or the CB, or the FB, or Bruno. Gave away a penalty, stupid or not.
And you decide Pogba was the best out of those three ? Seriously man, I don't want to criticize Pogba at all but this is just fecking too much tbh.
You may have decided that but I haven't, Matic and Pogba were as bad as the other while Fernandes was probably the worst player on the field.Whaaat
Matic, the one who basically single-handly fended all the defensive duties of our whole midfield.
Bruno, the only one was actually trying to make something happen in our midfield. Run like crazy back and forth despite being totally and visibly knackered.
Pogba, walk here and there. Pass to Matic, or the CB, or the FB, or Bruno. Gave away a penalty, stupid or not.
And you decide Pogba was the best out of those three ? Seriously man, I don't want to criticize Pogba at all but this is just fecking too much tbh.
May you enlighten me why?
Regarding Matic I did in the post that you intially quoted, Fernandes was useless with and without the ball, he failed to play his role of creator, often lost the ball cheaply and was useless defensively. Pogba was often out of position, when on the ball, he did almot feck all outside of his involvement in both of the goals scored. For anyone to claim that one of these players looked much better than the others is far from reality, they were all bad and Fernandes was worse.
Ok I got your logic.
Pogba tried feck all, did feck all, defended feck all, pressed feck all so he's done nothing bad. I guess we'd better play Lingard there next time. Would resulted in the same great feck all and a fine bonus of good pressing and no penalty given away.
This.Whaaat
Matic, the one who basically single-handly fended all the defensive duties of our whole midfield.
Bruno, the only one was actually trying to make something happen in our midfield. Run like crazy back and forth despite being totally and visibly knackered.
Pogba, walk here and there. Pass to Matic, or the CB, or the FB, or Bruno. Gave away a penalty, stupid or not.
And you decide Pogba was the best out of those three ? Seriously man, I don't want to criticize Pogba at all but this is just fecking too much tbh.
Ok, Matic and Bruno played bad, but they still looked miles better than Pogba who is our 90 million game changing MF.
Pogba spent the whole game walking around the MF passing to the CBs. At least Matic had a bit of fight in him.
This just false. Bruno and Matic at least tried. Pogba did nothing but walk around.
Trying doesn't make you good, unless I missed something.
Pogba was an absolute disgrace last night between his performance and the penalty. Pogba is our problem in MF. Bruno and the other MF partner regardless of who it is can be depended upon. Not Pogba.
It has been the same since we bought him. A good game here and there when he turns up. But more often than not, simply not good enough.
We were conned badly.
It has been the same since we bought him. A good game here and there when he turns up. But more often than not, simply not good enough.
We were conned badly.
Why are we talking about Bruno and Matic here ? Them being bad or not isn't going to affect how awful Pogba was yesterday.
The list of excuses on this forum for Pogba are staggering. I do hope he joins Madrid in the summer and we can move on from the circus that he is..
Talented he is but in everything else that matters on the field he is found wanting. If we give him a Sanchez like contract then I give up. Cash in and replace with somebody who is more a team player and who wants to be here.
For the sake of balance it is being argued that he was not the only player to play badly yesterday. It's the typical overreaction to Pogba that annoys some of us. Not because we are even protecting him, he was poor, but so was everybody.
But the narrative that it's all Paul's fault wins the day usually.
Because they are part of the same midfield? How Matic performs is pretty significant on how well we control the midfield, which directly correlates to Pogba's performance. However, if what you really meant was why talk about Bruno and Matic in a good ol fashioned Pogba bashing session, then I wholeheartedly agree, they have absolutely no place here..
That's not even it. Someone tried to make the point that Matic was a lot better than Pogba yesterday which wasn't the case, Matic was bad like pretty much everyone else.
I genuinely don't think Gary Neville helps either. The way he makes such a big meal out of United issues is stupid.
If that was any other co commentator they just say "oh it's a hand ball" but Neville goes on like he's murdered somebody. He clearly dislikes Pogba as we've established before, he feeds the agenda that makes it feel ok to dislike/hate him.
Yes the guy fecked up, just accept it and move on. Last week it was De Gea, next week it'll be Lindelof.
The guys that are saying he did it on purpose to miss out on the CL are headcases.
If that was any other co commentator they just say "oh it's a hand ball" but Neville goes on like he's murdered somebody. He clearly dislikes Pogba as we've established before, he feeds the agenda that makes it feel ok to dislike/hate him.
Yes the guy fecked up, just accept it and move on. Last week it was De Gea, next week it'll be Lindelof.
The guys that are saying he did it on purpose to miss out on the CL are headcases.
But Matic was a lot better than Pogba yesterday, wasn't he?
Pogba was simply atrocious.
This 100%. Matic looked like the more complete midfielder, even though that is supposed to be Pogbas role.
How long more can we make excuses for the guy? Six months ago he did not even wish to be here.
No, he wasn't. Matic made more fouls, he lost the ball more, they had the same amount of aerial duel, interceptions, clearances, blocked shots, Matic attempted more tackles and Pogba attempted more dribbles. For me they had a similar level of performance outside of Pogba's brainfart of a handball, they were both shoddy.
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Yes he was.
I thought you guys wanted him to not show off and keep it simple? Which is it?
It was quite clear that Pogba's general performance (not including the mistake as the mistake turned his performance into a poor one) was related to passing options he had available. There wasn't a time where I felt a pass was on, but Pogba didn't attempt to execute it as if he wasn't bothered. That didn't happen. What clearly happened was that passing options were limited from his position so he would pass it to Matic, and then Matic had a passing angle not cut off so then executed the passing.
It was like this all match. The middle was clogged up as West Ham clogged it up. They were happy to give space to TFM on the right initially.
So this whole point of how he was useless is just meaningless to me. Useless because of the mistake? Sure. Because he wasn't bothered and was just poor? No.
You’re saying this tongue in cheek but it’s already the case.I agree that Pogba shouldn't have risked getting a sore head from blocking the ball. I also want from now on, for him, not to engage in any tackling, esp 50-50's as there is a chance he might get hurt in said collision. I also don't want him sprinting at any point in any games due to risk of pulling a hamstring. I also don't want him jogging either as if pitch is uneven he could go over on his ankle. I don't want him to pass the ball with any power for fear he isn't properly warmed up and could pull a muscle. He's our prized asset we have to protect him
Matic slowed the whole game down. Matic gave away silly free kicks all game.
Pogba handball was bad but he was not worse than Matic.
I'm sorry man, and I'm not picking on you - but let's not dwell on the penalty. I can chalk that off to lack of concentration (not cowardice) which still is inexcusable for a professional football player getting close to $1M a game.
The ball comes at him at some serious speed and without even thinking he puts his hands up to protect himself. It is what it is.
The muppets above saying he did it on purpose are nutcases. How could he even think that fast to even decide that?
They just want to cause shit because its Pogba. Bet if Fernandes did it there wouldn't even be a discussion "natural reaction what else can he do"
The issue I have with Pogba is the entire 90 minutes. I saw nothing, not even a hint of anger to want to make things right. I saw no drive, nothing incisive, no cajoling his teammates, no busting a gut to close a gap / tackle an opponent, no running into space, no speed of thought... just strolling around for the entire game at a leisurely pace. And this not an isolated game, it's been his story for 4 years. One great game followed by several average ones, followed by some dogshit performances marked by losing possession in dangerous positions (see Southampton).
I have nothing against Pogba, I've been a fan ever since he burst on the scene at Juve, was exctatic when we signed him and fully supported him vs. Jose - but at the end of the day, my loyalty is to the club not a single player. His lack of concentration, lack of desire/commitment makes me feel like he's doing the club a favor by playing for us, as if the club is beneath his talent. I can't have that.
Effort does count for something though. Some would say it's the very least you should expect from a footballer.
This. I think it's time we end the Pogba experiment and let him take his marketability and wasted talent elsewhere.
Not when your effort does nothing outside of still being late and making fouls. Effort is only useful when you actually do something, we are talking about Football not the Senior Olympics.
You would have to laugh at the poster who said effort doesnt matter much. The reason Roy Keane is so good is because he was driven to do it 50 games a season for ten years. Ronaldo the same. Just insanely driven.
Pogba does not even have a tenth of keanes drive. We were all conned. I was conned back when we bought fourish years ago. Souness and the Irish pundits have been repeatedly saying he is not up to it.
I guarantee if we keep him, we will still be having this argument in two or three years time.
Pogba does not even have a tenth of keanes drive. We were all conned. I was conned back when we bought fourish years ago. Souness and the Irish pundits have been repeatedly saying he is not up to it.
I guarantee if we keep him, we will still be having this argument in two or three years time.
Not true. You can't just only look at stats. A foul could also result in the breaking of a counter attack. Matic wasn't good last night but he showed a bit of heart and aggression, which is much more than anyone can say about Pogba. He clearly outperformed Pogba in mine, and many others', opinion.
Agreed.
I will put it like this. Matic looked better in what he was supposed to do than Pogba did in what he was supposed to do.
Players were tired, i agree. Rashford looked knackered. But Pogba was just abysmal.
I think that's just his personality tbh. He seems very levelled and rarely gets annoyed or wound up. Even when he gets tackled poorly he just shrugs it off and doesn't react, probably for the worse sometimes as I often think football is better played with some anger.
I don't really think he did much wrong in terms of what he did in the game, first half he played quite well I thought and put a chance on a plate for TFM (who was offside)
2nd half though the whole team just looked dead. He actually made the move into Martial who then setup Greenwood for the goal, but after that we just didn't have anything.
You have to remember Pogba is 6'4 and not very agile, he can't get the ball and dribble through a team and score, he needs movement ahead of him to use his passing and vision, but it just wasn't there for us. No coincidence he's looked best when the team have been fired up and looking fresh.
Bruno was a lot worse for me, but he is just as tired also so i'm not angry at him, I think the staff have done us dirty in running them into the ground.
People are going to dislike Pogba though and the penalty is the perfect excuse to spill their bile.
291 people voted in our player performance survey yesterday.
Pogba had lowest average in entire team: 11th/11 @ 3.9
Matic was mid way in the team: 6th/11 @ 5.0
Anyone claiming Matic was as bad as Pogba clearly has an agenda.
Here is the thing, you said it Matic wasn't good which is what I said. You may be care about feeling heart and aggression but the reality is that it did nothing for our team and our midfield we were still subpar and dominated by West Ham. So stop talking nonsense about effort and mixing it with being good or better, it just makes you feel better, personally when I judge the level of performance of a player I look at what he achieved not how my heart felt while he was running in slow motion and being outplayed by Mark Noble.
And the point of this thread is that Pogba was bad yesterday, I don't need to make up some nonsense about heart to say that Pogba was bad. He was bad because his positioning was often bad, his reading of the game was bad and his decision making was bad and no amount of heart and aggression would have changed that.
I'm not sure you understood his point. It wasn't Pogba's misplaced passes or unsuccessful dribbles or any of that nice stuff that people have a huge issue with, it's the sheer and utter lack of giving a shit. You don't need to be agile to close down your man, show some god damn emotion in one of the season's most crucial games.
He just went through the motions and let the game pass him by. It happens all too often.
Why do you think Manchester United fans dislike Pogba? What is it that you see that the rest are unable to see?
I would say that the handball played a massive role in that and Matic having a 5, or any of our midfielders is a bit of joke.
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