Harry Maguire involved in incident with police in Greece - conviction nullified by appeal, full retrial pending

[Withnail]

My point was irrelevant because you simply didn't want to hear it it seems. Your claim that Ole is a ruthless coach is something I disagree with. If that's beating him with stick in your mind, you should probably take a break from being on discussion forums.

I'm not sure what your point is at all and we are miles off topic.

I was responding to someone who suggested he was a nice guy who wasn't capable of laying down the law in relation to the Maguire situation.

You're now claiming I said he was ruthless.

One of the examples I used of him not being a nice guy was that he moved people on who he didn't want at the club.

You then started talking about two other players who's contracts were extended being less useful than those he got rid of. This seemed completely irelevant to me and even further from the topic at hand.

I then suggested that if you wanted to complain about the manager that you should go to one of those threads and do it there.

You've yet to actually say anything to prove that he is a nice guy who's unable to deal with the Maguire situation.

And then you suggest I should take a break from forums

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Are you referring to this post? I've struggled to find any other accounts.

Yes. There were some tweets of it as well somewhere I think.

 

[VivaObertan]

Check who wrote the maguire vs hipster defender thread. I love him as a player. But I dont like these personal traits.

I'm not familiar with the thread sorry but why are you so quick to assume his character when all other reports indicate he has been a stand-up guy throughout his career?

 

[Cloud7]

Don't think it is even that we don't think Harry is innocent of everything, more the police have embroidered it to make it look worse than it was, while overlooking what apparently happened to his sister.

I would say we don’t know enough to declare this either. Believe me I’m no fan of the police as my posts in many of the current event threads will confirm, but it’s not like we have any sort of video evidence to say it’s one way or another. We have some people saying one thing, and some people saying another.

At the end of the day, no one was killed, Harry isn’t going to jail and is presumably going to be on his way back home to get some rest before we restart training. There’s no real lasting effects of this, as far as I can see, short of him having a criminal record now. And if he plans to appeal it then that may very well go away as well.

Referring to the point you made I guess I just don’t see how anyone can say with such certainty that it looks like a stitch up job from the police.

 

[NotThatSoph]

There are quotes earlier in the thread from witnesses saying the opposite.

I haven't seen that, but I'm sure that's true. In any case, when a paper reports these witnesses while simultaneously describing their age and nationality, then it's very probably true that they at least exist. It doesn't mean that they're right, but it does mean that we're dealing with more than just taking some cops at their word.

 

[mazhar13]

Suspended sentence = you don´t go to jail at all.

In this case, however, his suspension is only for 3 years and is based on the fact that it's his first offence and is a misdemeanour. After those 3 years, would he be required to go to jail?

 

[bsCallout]

I think you've got to be a prat to believe the police authorities. Their own story doesnt even sit straight.

I can guarantee they asked for some money to let him go and he told them where to go.

Tactic 101 for the cops abroad. They're puppets for the local mobsters anyway

 

[led_scholes]

not telling the defence what the charges are or what the evidence is until just before the trial and the lawyer crying on TV about how it would have gone away with an apology. Honestly, what a shitty little joke of a nation, cnuts.

Oh nice generalisation for the whole nation. What about the foreigners who claimed that Maguire was indeed the aggressor? Perhaps, Maguire is an alcohol addict like all the English? Honestly, what a shitty alcoholic joke of a nation, cnuts. Maguire should perhaps get a trial in UK, like Assange. Is Greece having problems with corruption? Yes. Does this mean that everything and everyone is corrupt? No.

Am i doing it right??

 

[Mercurial]

He and his brother and friend are all charged with misdemeanors. Those don't result in being in prison long term.

Can see the Greek police try to use Maguire as an example because of the public figure he is, which is not uncommon for countries or cities to do so they can have the light shine on them a little bit, or prosecutors. What we haven't heard about are the instigators of this circumstance, not that anybody cares.

And yes, because if they're plain clothes officers, and when you're a visitor and when things get a little bit hairy in terms of an altercation with the group you're with, pushing and shoving and getting physical with others is going to happen.

This has already gotten blown out of proportion. I honestly do not believe this should be used against Harry and him getting the armband taken away. In fact, it could be (but probably won't) used as an us against everybody else (siege mentality) because he's going to get stick from everyone and United will do their best to protect him and just move on. Nobody fecking got hurt or die. There was a clear altercation and context must be given.

Alonso killed a passenger while under the influence and injured 2 more while crashing into a wall with his car, got a big fine and jail sentence that was dropped for more fines and let off the hook and is going about his day like nothing happened, this case has as you say been blown out of proportions very hard on fragmental and anecdotal rumors at best. No doubt he showed poor judgement on a few turns from first choice of a public vacation to some iffy or not choices, specially given he is the front face for a world top club, only he knows at this point what happened truly. No doubt this will die out and be forgotten wish him and us get trough it in a decent way. There is a chance at redemption here in court also lets not forget. Lot of loose ends and a fast firebrand type justice was at play, its hard to not see the arbitrary side of it all from the Greek justice system specially listening to the prosecutors aid blabbering about apologies to make things go away, but perhaps this is normal in that system. Realistically he will and should play for the club in my opinion since its a misdemeanor by decree of their court. Of that there was no doubt at least so thats the top ceiling. The damages to his image and the drama for the club is his&clubs long term problem.

 

[Matriac]

Was it ever established that where did the van come from when it was supposed to take them to the hospital instead of a police station? Reeks of a total set up. Were the people in the van one of the accomplices with the gangsters?

It was said it was Maguire's own van. That the driver was either hired by him or the resort they were staying at.

Could of course still have someone else paying him as well. But that's speculation.

 

[Prodigal7]

A Greek paper reported at least three independent witnesses describing Maguire and co as the aggressors. It's perfectly possible that Maguire is innocent and that this is nothing, but the constant repeating of "just believing the police" is a bit rich while simultaneously throwing around agenda accusations, no?

Oh for god sake the idiocy of our fans gets to me sometimes. Why don’t you link the article, it’s a load of anti foreign propaganda to push an agenda. If the head of the BNP wrote an article would you believe it as gospel?
Learn how the media works before assuming truths from it.

 

[Bocca9978]

Just realised I’m still a newbie and I’ve been posting here on / off for 12 months!

Knowledge is the bomb!

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I haven't seen that, but I'm sure that's true. In any case, when a paper reports these witnesses while simultaneously describing their age and nationality, then it's very probably true that they at least exist. It doesn't mean that they're right, but it does mean that we're dealing with more than just taking some cops at their word.

Also depends when they witnessed something happening. If it was when the plain clothed police got involved then it might have looked bad, while others it appears to be from the original incident. So people can see different things. It is like asking for a description of a criminal and the police get about ten different descriptions.

 

[MTF]

In this case, however, his suspension is only for 3 years and is based on the fact that it's his first offence and is a misdemeanour. After those 3 years, would he be required to go to jail?

No, with a suspended sentence what could happen is that if you were to commit another crime in those 3 years, even if a smaller offense, then the judge can also order you to serve the jail sentence associated with the first crime. It's kinda like probation, without going to jail in the 1st place.

 

[Amarsdd]

A Greek paper reported at least three independent witnesses describing Maguire and co as the aggressors. It's perfectly possible that Maguire is innocent and that this is nothing, but the constant repeating of "just believing the police" is a bit rich while simultaneously throwing around agenda accusations, no?

Which ones? I've only seen witnesses report the opposite.

 

[NotThatSoph]

You don't seem understand my post.

Going off what's happened over the last 4 months, it should work both ways, unless you have a agenda.

Yes, of course, but 1) I don't think the systematic oppression of minorities in the justice system is very comparable with filthy rich white guys boozing on vacation, and 2) they're not just believing the cops, there are other sources of information. A lot of people here are fully believing that some Albanian gangsters publicly injected Maguire's sister with something from a syringe, and while that might turn out to be true that's by far the most unbelievable thing in all this.

I've said several times, it's very possible that this is all nothing, but if anyone should be accused of having an agenda here then surely it should be the ones insisting that this is guaranteed to be a stitch up.

 

[iammemphis]

In this case, however, his suspension is only for 3 years and is based on the fact that it's his first offence and is a misdemeanour. After those 3 years, would he be required to go to jail?

No mate.

 

[ManUArfa]

Give them a massive statue of a horse as an apology.

Is that otherwise known as a packet of Trojans?

 

[elnorte]

In this case, however, his suspension is only for 3 years and is based on the fact that it's his first offence and is a misdemeanour. After those 3 years, would he be required to go to jail?

What?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

No, with a suspended sentence what could happen is that if you were to commit another crime in those 3 years, even if a smaller offense, then the judge can also order you to serve the jail sentence associated with the first crime. It's kinda like probation, without going to jail in the 1st place.

So if he defends badly we could have him arrested?

 

[NotThatSoph]

Also depends when they witnessed something happening. If it was when the plain clothed police got involved then it might have looked bad, while others it appears to be from the original incident. So people can see different things. It is like asking for a description of a criminal and the police get about ten different descriptions.

Yes, that's very possible. It's also possible, for instance, that they were the aggressors initially but that everything from there on is false.

Which ones? I've only seen witnesses report the opposite.

The thread is moving too fast, it's been linked several times but I don't know which pages.

 

[NYAS]

I'm not sure if I follow, he was arrested Thursday, his lawyers have been on the case since at least Friday, they had more than two hours to build their case and find witnesses. Now they may use the fact that the prosecution confirmed the charges and provided their own evidences yesterday but there is nothing special about it and there is nothing fishy about it either, it's fairly normal for that type of basic cases pretty much everywhere. If they want to appeal, they can and that's what they have done but without more elements I don't see where is the fishy part.

They downgraded the charges a couple of hours before trial, and so whatever they could have been preparing for in the previous days were not relevant and they had to battle completely different charges in 2 hours.

 

[mazhar13]

No mate.

Good to know; I just wanted to be 100% sure.

 

[matt10000]

It’s Woody’s fault he should hqve advised all players to take a few minders on holiday with them to do any fighting for them.

 

[mazhar13]

What?

I asked a question. I wasn't making an affirmative statement.

 

[TMDaines]

Be interesting to see what United and the manager do here. Whilst elements of this do look like a sham, I cannot help but think Maguire’s exercised bad judgement along the way. The defence is a really odd one to take if it is not a completely honest reflection of events.

Difficult to see how he can remain club captain with this hanging over him. Gardening leave might be an option pending an appeal, but otherwise he may need to be stripped of the captaincy on principle. That’s not to say that he couldn’t be considered again in the future.

Feels quite similar to the Ben Stokes incident, where the player might be morally in the right on balance, but has still brought the game and his club into disrepute.

One thing a lot in this thread are ignoring is that the job of a professional athlete is not just to play sport. You also need to attract sponsorship and be commercially appealing. Being found guilty of a crime has a massive impact on the latter in the short term.

Edit: spelling

 

[The Cat]

Can't believe nobody has said yet he's got his defence all wrong.

 

[Organic Potatoes]

Can't believe nobody has said yet he's got his defence all wrong.

Wasn’t wrong, just too slow to react.

 

[Dve]

In this case, however, his suspension is only for 3 years and is based on the fact that it's his first offence and is a misdemeanour. After those 3 years, would he be required to go to jail?

In practice, It means that Maguire must behave really nicely when he´s in Greece the next 3 years. If he does just the smallest thing, he will go to jail. After 3 years - and if Maguire during those 3 years has behaved like an angel (while in Greece, that is) - the charges will be dismissed.

 

[Cloud7]

Can't believe nobody has said yet he's got his defence all wrong.

Lindelof left him isolated again

 

[Member 101269]

We’re united; regardless of the outcome we don’t get distracted by an appeal. Let’s hope this doesn’t stop him playing in cl in future years

 

[duffer]

100% certainty that Man United get drawn in the same group as a Greek side.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

In practice, It means that Maguire must behave really nicely when he´s in Greece the next 3 years. If he does just the smallest thing (another misdemeanours charges), he will go to jail. After 3 years the charges will be dismissed.

Think if we do have to go back to Greece, there will be no excuse for Ole not to give Harry a much needed rest.

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

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[#07]

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[sammsky1]

I'm not familiar with the thread sorry but why are you so quick to assume his character when all other reports indicate he has been a stand-up guy throughout his career?

Here is the thread: As I said, I admire and rate him as a player more than many on here.

If he is serious about representing OGS and his values and culture, he's an idiot for choosing this destination, and for being drunk on the town near gangsters who can goad and abuse his fame.

This is no longer ifs and buts. The incidents sound very plausible. He was very angry with the police for whatever reason, and then acted out. I believe the Greece police and the court. He was found guilty.
Only evidence you have is a claim that "Greece is corrupt". If the police were so corrupt, why didn't they accept the bribe? I find such claims quite xenophobic.

 

[Wayne's World]

Ohh things have gotten interesting. His England career in doubt?

 

[Withnail]

Yes, that's very possible. It's also possible, for instance, that they were the aggressors initially but that everything from there on is false.



The thread is moving too fast, it's been linked several times but I don't know which pages.

We could do with a few threadmarks alright.

 

[mazhar13]

In practice, It means that Maguire must behave really nicely when he´s in Greece the next 3 years. If he does just the smallest thing, he will go to jail. After 3 years - and if Maguire during those 3 years has behaved like an angel (while in Greece, that is) - the charges will be dismissed.

There you go. Thanks for the info. I didn't want to misinterpret the statement.

 

[Jibbs]

I don't know what transpired there, but I do know greece is one of the most corrupt nations in Europe. I also know english tourists are famous for their drunken brawls but I doubt a guy like Maguire with so much at stake will get involve into a brawl.or fight until someone directly threatened him or his family.