SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Pogue Mahone

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Ha so true! My wife's parents (live in the Netherlands) were just saying how their cases spike are caused by reckless youths.

Was it pexbo who said you can tell what someone is going to post on this thread as soon as you've read their username? Its so true and also very true when it comes to the inevitable blame game for what we're going through.

I must admit though, I feel incredibly sorry for these kids. 18 years old and end up getting locked in, from a university experience that is already truncated. Really feel for them.
Yeah, it’s bullshit. Horrible for them. From a public health perspective, it makes sense though. If covid is running rife in those halls it will probably save lives to keep it in an area where only young people live, rather than let them scatter to the four corners of the country where they can spread the virus to older, more vulnerable people in their household and neighbourhood. A good example of the damned if you do, damned if you don’t decisions we’re talking about.

Plus your politics will bias your take on this. With lefties furious about the way this move will ensure rental income for student accommodation landlords, while conservatives will focus on the students alleged partying.
 

Coxy

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Yeah, it’s bullshit. Horrible for them. From a public health perspective, it makes sense though. If covid is running rife in those halls it will probably save lives to keep it in an area where only young people live, rather than let them scatter to the four corners of the country where they can spread the virus to older, more vulnerable people in their household and neighbourhood. A good example of the damned if you do, damned if you don’t decisions we’re talking about.

Plus your politics will bias your take on this. With lefties furious about the way this move will ensure rental income for student accommodation landlords, while conservatives will focus on the students alleged partying.
What's happening at Manchester is ridiculous. Manchester Met aren't managing this well.

However I do find it slightly soul destroying when we (I work at a Uni) make it as 'covid secure' as possible and introduce various measures etc - only to then see students completely ignore them.
 

Tibs

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What's happening at Manchester is ridiculous. Manchester Met aren't managing this well.

However I do find it slightly soul destroying when we (I work at a Uni) make it as 'covid secure' as possible and introduce various measures etc - only to then see students completely ignore them.
I've seen countless videos on my instagram this morning of people I know at Uni, having parties and piss ups in their halls.
 

Pogue Mahone

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What's happening at Manchester is ridiculous. Manchester Met aren't managing this well.

However I do find it slightly soul destroying when we (I work at a Uni) make it as 'covid secure' as possible and introduce various measures etc - only to then see students completely ignore them.
It must be so frustrating. Same thing for teachers in primary/secondary schools. So much work and effort trying to adhere to strict social distancing guidelines and the kids just don’t give a shit. They’re all over each other the moment they’re not supervised.

In a way, I think we just have to accept this as a given. For kids and young adults social distancing isn’t going to happen. Which does make me wonder if the best thing for the economy is to allow the reopening of all the businesses in which kids/young adults mingle. You have to question the logic of letting indoor play centres and night-clubs go out of business when we know that their usual customers will be squeezed together in private properties instead.
 

Brwned

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What's happening at Manchester is ridiculous. Manchester Met aren't managing this well.

However I do find it slightly soul destroying when we (I work at a Uni) make it as 'covid secure' as possible and introduce various measures etc - only to then see students completely ignore them.
Do you have plans in place for when outbreaks like this inevitably happen, e.g. a delivery system for essential supplies?
 

Sparky_Hughes

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The most depressing thing for me, after the tragic loss of lives and livelyhoods is how we have a government that is blatantly corrupt, using this as an opportunity to line their pockets and those of their associates and when it comes to anything other than skimming off cash couldnt find their own arses with two hands and a map, yet a large swathe of the population would probably still vote the bastards in tomorrow if there was a snap election.
 

robinamicrowave

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The most depressing thing for me, after the tragic loss of lives and livelyhoods is how we have a government that is blatantly corrupt, using this as an opportunity to line their pockets and those of their associates and when it comes to anything other than skimming off cash couldnt find their own arses with two hands and a map, yet a large swathe of the population would probably still vote the bastards in tomorrow if there was a snap election.
You're right. The Tories have got this wonderful ability to mess the country up, then point at Labour and say "Well it would be more messed up if they were in charge".
 

Bebestation

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For me, they tried to get kids back to schools and colleges so the adults would be free to boost the economy again by getting back to work & a pattern etc. Adults have to spend alot on kids away from them aswell.

When it comes to parliament, the difference between peoples health and money isnt going to be much.

You can see it now, they close off everywhere apart from London. They continue with schools and Universities when its proven to be a place of growth for the disease etc.
 

Coxy

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It must be so frustrating. Same thing for teachers in primary/secondary schools. So much work and effort trying to adhere to strict social distancing guidelines and the kids just don’t give a shit. They’re all over each other the moment they’re not supervised.

In a way, I think we just have to accept this as a given. For kids and young adults social distancing isn’t going to happen. Which does make me wonder if the best thing for the economy is to allow the reopening of all the businesses in which kids/young adults mingle. You have to question the logic of letting indoor play centres and night-clubs go out of business when we know that their usual customers will be squeezed together in private properties instead.
It is. We had staff furloughed who came back and spent a long time preparing our building - to then see all of their work is extremely soul destroying.

Do you have plans in place for when outbreaks like this inevitably happen, e.g. a delivery system for essential supplies?
Nothing to do with me (different department) but I'm sure we will have yes - especially after Manchester!
 

Woodzy

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Our sister hospital has “closed its doors” on any new admissions for the next 2 weeks because of a huge outbreak of COVID there that isn’t manageable. There is 70 confirmed cases of COVID there now.

So they’ve shut their Emergency Department (still open for walks in for those that can be treated for issues that can be dealt with and then discharge home - like an ankle injury) and they will defer all ambulances to the nearby hospitals.

Meaning my hospital’s Emergency’s Department will become extra busy for the foreseeable future as it now covers a wider range of area.
Where you are based? This has happened to my local hospital and my grandfather is waiting for an cancer op appointment frustratingly.
 

DavelinaJolie

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One thing I have noticed the conspiracy theorists, rather oddly, galvanise around is the desire to get the economy up and running and getting back to work.

Yes, please, let us beg you governments of the world; we need to be free to be wage slaves. This virus shouldn't inhibit our ability to make money for corporations and the Uber-wealthy who reward us with a pittance.

And they call us sheep.
 

Pogue Mahone

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One thing I have noticed the conspiracy theorists, rather oddly, galvanise around is the desire to get the economy up and running and getting back to work.

Yes, please, let us beg you governments of the world; we need to be free to be wage slaves. This virus shouldn't inhibit our ability to make money for corporations and the Uber-wealthy who reward us with a pittance.

And they call us sheep.
Heh. Very good. It is interesting that conspiracy theory goons seem to coalesce around right wing views of the world. Although that makes sense if you think of it as a preference for small government. If you’re up to your neck in conspiracy theories then the smaller the influence of the state the better.
 

Abizzz

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One thing I have noticed the conspiracy theorists, rather oddly, galvanise around is the desire to get the economy up and running and getting back to work.

Yes, please, let us beg you governments of the world; we need to be free to be wage slaves. This virus shouldn't inhibit our ability to make money for corporations and the Uber-wealthy who reward us with a pittance.

And they call us sheep.
A lot of people really are struggling though and need that next paycheck from their employer to pay rent, car payment etc. We love to blame big business but loads of us are dependent on it ticking along as well.
(Not that it gives any credence to the theories itself, just think it's plausible that they are really feeling the pressure)
 

DavelinaJolie

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A lot of people really are struggling though and need that next paycheck from their employer to pay rent, car payment etc. We love to blame big business but loads of us are dependent on it ticking along as well.
(Not that it gives any credence to the theories itself, just think it's plausible that they are really feeling the pressure)
It is absolutely understandable why people coalesce around conspiracy theories, and I know this has been hard for many people. It's just a shame we have been conditioned to think that things as they are is the only way, and that we can't make something better. Crises should result in reflection and change, but we always seem to rely on our old ways too much.

Anyway, I can feel a warning heading my way for going off-topic if I don't shut up.
 

Brwned

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For me, they tried to get kids back to schools and colleges so the adults would be free to boost the economy again by getting back to work & a pattern etc. Adults have to spend alot on kids away from them aswell.

When it comes to parliament, the difference between peoples health and money isnt going to be much.

You can see it now, they close off everywhere apart from London. They continue with schools and Universities when its proven to be a place of growth for the disease etc.
To begin with the strategy of getting kids back to school was well aligned with getting parents back into offices, but now they've abandoned that I'm not so sure. How else would it impact the economy?

At the end of the day school is the dominant part of a child's life, playing kick about on the street and long summer holidays are great but school is the focal point for most people's social networks until they're out boozing.

Making kids even more reliant on technology for social connection when a majority already think devices pull people apart more than they bring people together, and mental health issues are clearly exacerbated by them, is a legitimate long term concern. You can lose years of adulthood and get them back, in some form or another. You can't get years of childhood back.

Making education a priority for kids and society is an entirely normal thing, it doesn't need to have some sinister motives underlying. Most modern societies have that principle as an essential pillar of society.
 

Camilo

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I've seen countless videos on my instagram this morning of people I know at Uni, having parties and piss ups in their halls.
The thing is you can't blame them. We all remember being 18, many of us remember going to uni. We were arseholes.

They shouldn't be there right now, it was a stupid decision to open halls. And regarding Christmas and students travelling, every single one of them will travel home. Of course they're going to. The government can say whatever they want, but there will be hundreds of thousands (millions?) moving around the country. And again, you can't really blame them. "Go to university and sit in your dorm for 3 months". Anyone who expects April levels of cooperation is batshit, yet that seems to be thinking.
 

acnumber9

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To begin with the strategy of getting kids back to school was well aligned with getting parents back into offices, but now they've abandoned that I'm not so sure. How else would it impact the economy?

At the end of the day school is the dominant part of a child's life, playing kick about on the street and long summer holidays are great but school is the focal point for most people's social networks until they're out boozing.

Making kids even more reliant on technology for social connection when a majority already think devices pull people apart more than they bring people together, and mental health issues are clearly exacerbated by them, is a legitimate long term concern. You can lose years of adulthood and get them back, in some form or another. You can't get years of childhood back.

Making education a priority for kids and society is an entirely normal thing, it doesn't need to have some sinister motives underlying. Most modern societies have that principle as an essential pillar of society.
I get people want education to be this important. But when those kids become adults the Government has shown they don’t give a feck about them. So what’s the benefit? ‘Have a great education but when it’s over, feck you’.
 

Brwned

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I get people want education to be this important. But when those kids become adults the Government has shown they don’t give a feck about them. So what’s the benefit? ‘Have a great education but when it’s over, feck you’.
Generally speaking a better education provides tools to better deal with the kind of harsh environment you're talking about. If the social safety net is poor, social mobility is poorly supported by the government, the economy is poorly managed etc. then having a better education to fall back on tends to present a wider range of choices to deal with those situations. There's plenty more that could be done in education but it's a pretty much universal finding that it makes later life easier, in easy and harsh environments.

In this case, whether missing out on an entire year of school is particularly consequential is hard to say. Maybe there's an alternative in the meantime that could be very valuable. I can't imagine there's a whole lot of evidence to fall back on. It intuitively makes sense to want to avoid that just in case it has widespread and significant consequences. That's not to say that the way they've implemented things has been right but I would imagine most people agree with the core objective and principles underpinning it.
 

acnumber9

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Generally speaking a better education provides tools to better deal with the kind of harsh environment you're talking about. If the social safety net is poor, social mobility is poorly supported by the government, the economy is poorly managed etc. then having a better education to fall back on tends to present a wider range of choices to deal with those situations. There's plenty more that could be done in education but it's a pretty much universal finding that it makes later life easier, in easy and harsh environments.

In this case, whether missing out on an entire year of school is particularly consequential is hard to say. Maybe there's an alternative in the meantime that could be very valuable. I can't imagine there's a whole lot of evidence to fall back on. It intuitively makes sense to want to avoid that just in case it has widespread and significant consequences. That's not to say that the way they've implemented things has been right but I would imagine most people agree with the core objective and principles underpinning it.
Yeah but a more balanced approach is surely better still. Not just with this virus but in general. I never understood Governments bragging about investing in education when it was clear they didn’t give a shit what happened when that education was complete. We have the smartest unemployed people around, is that the goal?
 

Pexbo

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Tibs

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Interesting Press Conference so far...the idea that the second wave might be more localised to the North of the country is interesting. Potentially much more severe and long term restrictions could be applied here - whilst the South remains more open and keeps the economy going??
 

Brwned

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Yeah but a more balanced approach is surely better still. Not just with this virus but in general. I never understood Governments bragging about investing in education when it was clear they didn’t give a shit what happened when that education was complete. We have the smartest unemployed people around, is that the goal?
Oh yeah I'd love to see better government support for all sorts of things, and I'm sure there'll be a shit load of stuff they cut back on in the aftermath of this that will be enraging and depressing once more. But on this particular policy on this particular moment, I don't have much to argue with. I absolutely think that we as a society should be willing to male sacrifices to protect education in moments of crisis, even if it exacerbates other issues. Within reason anyway, and right now it seems within reason.
 

acnumber9

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It's a complex situation, and you can't call everyone who breaks the rules selfish. However a portion of them are selfish cnuts
And even in that article 75% of police investigations found people being compliant. It’s not a headline though.
 

decorativeed

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Interesting Press Conference so far...the idea that the second wave might be more localised to the North of the country is interesting. Potentially much more severe and long term restrictions could be applied here - whilst the South remains more open and keeps the economy going??
They have no chance of people complying if they start a narrative that somehow London and the South can carry on almost as normal, but the rest of us up north should shut ourselves indoors alone.