So were all those predictions of no second wave mere blind optimism?
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
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but surely you can't just do that forever?
But equally haven't lockdown been shown not to work they just lower the levels for a while then they come back as soon as you open up?
I don't think there is a solution either, but locking down again just seems like it's kicking the problem a few months down the line when the country will have less money to deal with the issue when it does run through us.
Lockdown was designed to ensure hospitals aren't over capacity in ICU. It's a bit of a misconception from the broad public where they think the lockdown is designed to eradicate the virus. In their goal of ensuring hospitals are functioning, they prove effective. There is a trade off against this though. The tier system is far beyond a lockdown, and is merely restrictions on activity. Whether that has proven to be the effective call in the UK will be shown in November.
When you say National, you mean England not UK?
So I was confirmed today.
When it comes to work and wages etc, whats the deal.
Am I to furlough? I assume I don't take it off as sick
When it comes to work and wages etc, whats the deal.
Am I to furlough? I assume I don't take it off as sick
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Latest findings from influential Imperial College London study:
- 96,000 catching the virus every day
- Doubling every 9 days
- 1 in 78 now testing positive
- Estimated R rate in London 2.86
Scary if true. Makes you wonder what the Ro is as that will affect what the HIT is.
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Confirmed as positive? Sick leave obviously, I mean you have a positive diagnosis to show for. If you're feeling well, good on you, you can simply chill.
Half of them look like the overweight diabetics the virus will be licking its lips at, the other half look like Millwall fans who are upset they haven't been able to have a fight for the last 6 months.
Agreed. Also, I would defend an individuals freedom of choice when it comes to healthcare.
It's not a household budget, you can keep 'borrowing' or printing until it severely impacts the credit rating and currency. Neither are anywhere close to likely because of another lockdown more so Brexit. Rates are low and it's just another war time event where we'll pay it back over the next century along with inflation eroding it.
Further some of the cost of the increased borrowing would be needed regardless of lockdown. The furlough scheme would still be needed as would the PHE budget.
Also I can't believe we still have people saying lockdowns don't work. They cut the infection rate so yes they do work, they stop hospitals becoming overcrowded and stop the societal and economic impact of this sweeping through a country. The economic rebound we had during the summer was a result of lockdown.
Well, I guess the reason people say it is because it only cuts cases temporarily then when you open up after a couple of months you back to square 1.
So you're saying the country can just borrow and borrow, let business close for an extended period, furlough millions of people and pay 80% of their wages, without real long term effect or consequence for people or the country?
Exactly. I think people don't realise that the only reason we did manage to get a bit of control on the virus from June to August was because of the lockdown. The only hope is that we can get a vaccine soon but till then lockdowns have to happen unfortunately. We will soon be having 500+ deaths a day which is incredible for a country the size of UK
Thought this was a really interesting study and echoes a lot of the points I read on here earlier re: how the virus is transmitted.
https://english.elpais.com/society/...he-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html
Really hammers home the importance of masks, ventilation and time especially in an indoor environment.
https://english.elpais.com/society/...he-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html
Really hammers home the importance of masks, ventilation and time especially in an indoor environment.
What you define as "working" is different from the people who designed the approach, and the people who implemented the approach, so surely that would suggest what you define as "working" is not appropriate?
Lockdowns were supposed to suppress the virus for a limited period of time to prevent an uncontrollable rise. Going in and out of lockdowns is still entirely consistent with that approach, if it keeps things under control.
The question to ask is not whether it works - we have evidence from dozens of countries now that it does. And framing it that way is only designed to misinform. The reason you're saying it that way is because the people who planted that original idea and spread it through the media have succeeded. If nothing else you should be asking why they planted that idea in the first place.
Ultimately the question is not whether it succeeds in its goal but whether that goal was appropriate to begin with. That's a hard question to answer that required thoughtful discussion with an open acknowledgement of the things that remain unknowable at this stage, and thus the inherent uncertainty in the efficacy an alternative approach. My personal view is that's a big part of the reason why the question is framed in that misleading context.
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303 dead yesterday here, cases on steep rise too. Read a story about a lady whose husband died at 30 last week, he suffocated at home but wouldn't allow to get himself tested as he did not believe covid-19 existed and didn't want hospital to get extra money for covid diagnosis (tons of money of course), his wife shared those beliefs. She's now suing hospital for putting covid in his death certificate (she doesn't have any proof the did that but she thinks they did it to boost their numbers and get more money). We are doomed. This all feels surreal.
Wow I expect Dido Harding’s husband will come down on this like a tonne of feathers
good old Limmy. I’d still much rather a tonne of feathers was dropped on me than a tonne of steel though.It's in a scientists group, yet it's more like a statement for the masses. It's not a convo.
Even the way it's all worded makes it seem dodgey.
Ignoring the general corona denialism and conspiracy theories for a second, where does the idea come from that hospitals are just making stacks of cash for treating corona patients? Usually there's a grain if truth that people then spin into a grand yarn of a conspiracy but that seems an odd one. I thought most people trusted healthcare professionals anyway?
This is idiotic. Economy is down the drain, people have no income which means less taxes, consumption is at an all time low but yeah, government makes a ton of money from the pandemic. Read a theory that government makes all that money on VAT from sales of sanitary products, this is how idiotic all those theories are.
Nobody trust healthcare professionals here anymore, people think they are all corrupt and only want to make money from covid. Recent poll suggested that more people trust their friends and family about covid-19 than healthcare professionals.
A guy I know recently told me that hospitals are doing great now because they get twice as much money as before while not doing anything as they are all completely empty except for actors pretending to be sick from covid.
True, we have to invest, it is unfortunate that then UK credit rating has recently been downgraded twice due to Brexit. But we can still invest in minimising impact of the virus.
It is a shame we have not been investing in assets as a country over the last 10 years, say social housing for example which would have massively increased in value and reduced outgoings on housing benefit when unemployment peaks due to the killer punch of covid and brexit in the coming years.
Some pretty wild theories alright! That's a shame. You do kind of intuitively assume that when confronted with the reality of a situation, people are able to peek behind the curtain of a conspiracy theory, but invariably a lot of people just decide to double down
No, it's getting worse as situation progresses. The sad reality is we will have thousands of people dying from it with a lot of others denying that it even exists and laughing at all the reports. This pandemic has opened my eyes to how susceptible people are to conspiracy theories (as long as it makes them look 'enlightened') and how little analytical skills an average person here has.Some pretty wild theories alright! That's a shame. You do kind of intuitively assume that when confronted with the reality of a situation, people are able to peek behind the curtain of a conspiracy theory, but invariably a lot of people just decide to double down
Honestly I couldn’t care less if all the covidiots contracted it and died. The world would be a better place. Unfortunately they would also continue to infect lots of other people who may not be covidiots
Good article here about the significant improvement in treatment and recovery rates from hospitalised cases, while still stressing the seriousness of it all.
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Good article with cool graphics (on a phone browser anyway)
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The stats are definatley being 'massaged' lets say.
If you die from any regular death but you have had Covid at some point in the last 28 days - then you are logged as being killed as a Covid death, which is ridiculous.
Lockdowns inevitably take the pressure away from the NHS but having spoke to an ICU nurse, its not even 10% as busy as it was a few months back - despite what stats are being thrown out there.
We are all now well aware of the risks, along with the precautions to take to minimise your own personal risk - I think now is the time for the government to say - ''over to you guys, do as you please'' except those at risk of dying from it, diabetics and so on.... they must be told to shield. Might not seem fair, but the chances of your average Joe needing a ventilator is incredibly slim. He will just be a tad poorly for a week or 2 and in many cases, will be well enough to work from home, whereas an asthmatic will almost certainly need the care.
If you die from any regular death but you have had Covid at some point in the last 28 days - then you are logged as being killed as a Covid death, which is ridiculous.
Lockdowns inevitably take the pressure away from the NHS but having spoke to an ICU nurse, its not even 10% as busy as it was a few months back - despite what stats are being thrown out there.
We are all now well aware of the risks, along with the precautions to take to minimise your own personal risk - I think now is the time for the government to say - ''over to you guys, do as you please'' except those at risk of dying from it, diabetics and so on.... they must be told to shield. Might not seem fair, but the chances of your average Joe needing a ventilator is incredibly slim. He will just be a tad poorly for a week or 2 and in many cases, will be well enough to work from home, whereas an asthmatic will almost certainly need the care.
https://www.businessinsider.com/cov...tourists-holiday-scientists-2020-10?r=US&IR=T
"The majority of new COVID-19 cases in Europe stem from a mutated strain of the coronavirus that has been traced back to Spain and was spread across the continent over the summer by tourists, scientists said in a report Thursday.
The variant most likely originated in farm workers in northeastern Spain, where it was first recorded in June, they said.
The team of scientists from the University of Basel, ETH Zürich in Basel, and SeqCOVID in Spain said a suspected "superspreader" event accounted for early proliferation of the virus, which was then spread abroad by tourists and other travelers."
By mutated strain it just means a slight variant they've traced, it's still the same virus and just as deadly. They change slightly all the time but it's still largely the same. Think of it as an id tag.
"The majority of new COVID-19 cases in Europe stem from a mutated strain of the coronavirus that has been traced back to Spain and was spread across the continent over the summer by tourists, scientists said in a report Thursday.
The variant most likely originated in farm workers in northeastern Spain, where it was first recorded in June, they said.
The team of scientists from the University of Basel, ETH Zürich in Basel, and SeqCOVID in Spain said a suspected "superspreader" event accounted for early proliferation of the virus, which was then spread abroad by tourists and other travelers."
By mutated strain it just means a slight variant they've traced, it's still the same virus and just as deadly. They change slightly all the time but it's still largely the same. Think of it as an id tag.
I think that's a great idea, can't think of any recent scenarios where it's gone horribly wrong for Britain to do that.
EDIT: oops, sorry, I meant.. GREAT Britain.
Is that really true?
In UK? Statuary sick pay unless your company is specifically doing anything different or are still able to work from home. £95/week.
The furlough scheme was to protect against people being made unemployed, not for people falling sick.