You don’t need to worry about developing a long covid like syndrome from the vaccine. If that somehow happened it would fail the phase III trial.
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
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It may be my lack of understanding of how vaccines work. What I'm asking is, could the minor effects of injecting a vaccine (headaches, sore arm, slight temperature, anything else?) become full blown long covid symptoms because of the vaccine itself and no other exposure?
Very encouraging news!
Cool that's good to know. Will there be some medical data to back up that long covid was considered as a pass criteria, and passed? I'm guessing not. However, I will end my questioning here as I can see the thread being derailed.
Still disappointed that press releases for these mRNA vaccines haven't been supplemented with scientific publications that we can go over.
Literally we are trying to procure these vaccines and plan/reorganise healthcare infrastructure without peer-reviewed publication review. Not good science.
Wonder if the delay in Oxford''s publication is down to them wanting to do things more properly. Here's Richard Horton of the Lancet and what he said earlier about Pfizer (note the Lancet published phase I and II RCT results of the Oxford vaccine back in july)
Literally we are trying to procure these vaccines and plan/reorganise healthcare infrastructure without peer-reviewed publication review. Not good science.
Wonder if the delay in Oxford''s publication is down to them wanting to do things more properly. Here's Richard Horton of the Lancet and what he said earlier about Pfizer (note the Lancet published phase I and II RCT results of the Oxford vaccine back in july)
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I guess you're visualising the vaccine triggering a cytokine storm or something similar?
That is the kind of thing a Phase3 trial would see and unless it was experienced in tiny numbers (certainly below 1:10,000 participants) it would spot even a single incident very easily.
Will the trial have been long enough to guarantee that? They seem to have rushed it through.
COVID symptom - I’ve lost my body odour. I thought it was because my scent of smell was gone but it’s back now. I’ve not worn deodorant since getting COVID.
Has anyone heard of this symptom? Pretty cool symptom to have. Hoping this one sticks!
Has anyone heard of this symptom? Pretty cool symptom to have. Hoping this one sticks!
It’s insider trading. Rampant and unchecked because everyone is focused on outcome and not process.
I’m not saying the Science isn’t there. I am saying people are making Fcuk loads of money by buying stock, then selling after a surge linked to PR. I know it’s happening. I know people that are doing it. You can control and influence media messaging. It’s harder with Science literature.
It’s wrong. But nobody cares.
It’s still months long. Long enough to see something like that crop up. Plus by the time most people get vaccinated it will be even longer.
Yeah I read that the Pfizer CEO sold a whole load of stock off after the announcement. Its not a good look and morally wrong in my opinion, erodes trust in the companies. I don’t think it’s entirely motivated by that, there were always points in the trials where they could read the data early. Allows them to apply for early use authorisations and get the vaccines out quicker.
Yes, thanks I guess I was bit too uneducated in this to have understood the message earlier. That's a relief as being with a child still suffering heavily with covid after 8 months (literally has not gone to school!) I'm a sceptic for myself and my other kids until there's full proof.
This is the society that they built for us.
Ironically the COVE trial for moderna regarding this vaccine was actually funded for by Operation Warp Speed (unlike pfizer). Trump could have just waited a bit and would have actually not lied for once with his bragging.
I think long covid or similar symptoms would be identified in the same way as any other side effect or failure. In the Phase 3 trial I'm joining they call you back in for check-ups, two weeks after the second injection, then 3 months after, then 6 months, and then 12 months. Those cover blood tests, basic medical check-up and a face-to-face interview. Plus, there's a reporting app that they ask you to use to report how you're feeling and any symptoms. If you report something alarming (or get covid) that trips another face to face meeting. There's a lot of data feeding the process.
For the group that did Phase1/Phase2 trials on these first Pfizer/Moderna vaccines - they'll be 3/6 months past the second dose date before the drugs go for their emergency review, and the manufacturers will have a couple of months of Phase 3 mass data as well.
Sorry to hear that mate. Can understand your concern about long-COVID.
Sorry to hear about your youngster. I don't think they've actually started looking seriously at the under 18s as possible vaccine recipients. I doubt we'll see any vaccine approved for kids in the next year, and we'll know a lot more about the virus and the vaccine by then. The risk/benefit argument is very different to the calculation that makes sense for older adults.
Jesus, I remember seeing you post at the beginning of all this you were worried your little one might have it, that's awful to hear. What long covid symptoms are they suffering with? I'm in a similar boat where my breathing is still fecked and it's been about 7/8 months for me too, got better over the past 2 months or so to where it comes and goes now and I'm just used to the usual feeling so it's a bit more noticeable when I do have bad days with it but still a far cry from before, gone from being a fit and healthy 24 year old playing football a few times a week to getting out of breath if I walk at a slightly faster pace ffs.
If I remember correctly she never had any fever, cough or loss of smell and never tested positive for covid.
I urged you at the time to get her investigated for an alternative cause for her symptoms. If she’s still not well, 8 months later, you really need to get her properly checked out. Covid is obviously a big worry for all of us but we have to remember that there are plenty of other illnesses out there.
May as well sell your shares when the price is higher.
But maybe not if trust in your company is important for vaccine uptake and “saving the world”. He’s rich enough, could have waited a bit longer.
Apparently these were automatic sales triggered by the price rising above a threshold which was set ages ago. Still, though, not a good look.
Scientific updates via press releases are not ideal but has been standard practice for decades. The companies are obliged to notify the markets of information which might be relevant to their share price, as soon as it becomes available (which is intended, ironically, to prevent the insider trading that @UnrelatedPsuedo is accusing them of) These releases are typically circulated long before the data has been analysed and interpreted to a point that is fit for a formal peer review.
Pogue, this shit is rampant right now. It’s not accusation it’s fact. I suck the corporate teat. I was given ‘advice’ before the Pfizer announcement, albeit second hand.
I kind of know how it should work. It’s not working like that right now. People are making money hand over fist. It’s disgusting.
Is it worth bearing in mind that the Moderna trial protocol only tests for obviously symptomatic COVID-19? To be considered a positive case, the participants must test positive AND have at least two symptoms, at least one of which being a specific type.
Still promising news but seems like this could skew the numbers a bit by veiling potential asymptomatic cases/transmission. Would expect the true effectiveness (disease prevention) to be lower than 94.5%, but I say that based on statistical effects rather than any medical knowledge.
Still promising news but seems like this could skew the numbers a bit by veiling potential asymptomatic cases/transmission. Would expect the true effectiveness (disease prevention) to be lower than 94.5%, but I say that based on statistical effects rather than any medical knowledge.
I’m not denying the existence of insider training. Just pointing out that these press releases are intended to prevent/minimise it. You were giving the impression that they’re specifically released to help insider trading, when the opposite is actually the case.
Feel free to PM me, but I'll reply here for others if they are interested. My daughter was 17 when she caught it, started with a serious chest pain, uncomfortable pins and needles that stop you sleeping at night, headaches, brain fog and fatigue. No breathing issues though. Symptoms would often cycle and you wouldn't get all of them at once. In the summer there were green shots of recovery but it was short lived and all the symptoms are back just as bad except for the chest pain which though still bad is not as excruciating as before.
She had picked up other symptoms too, like loss of smell and taste, etc. Again the symptoms cycle. Went to the hospital in September (cases were very low then so a good time), blood tests, x-ray, etc, done but as expected found nothing. I have spent most of my time on a Long Covid Slack group which I would advise for you to join.
Sorry to hear about your symptoms. It's bad enough to get it in middle age but to affect you in the prime of your life is depressing. Main thing is to reach out to others in your boat, we need to get through this mentally rather than physically, and medical professionals are not currently equipped for that. I've had a few shouting matches with three of my GP footy mates who are still in symptoms denial stages.
Seems as though better portability comes at a cost ....
But a critical question that is going to become ever more important is raised by the Moderna vaccine. It is very expensive.
In the summer, Moderna was pitching for $37 (£28) a dose, which is way above others such as Johnson & Johnson, at $10, and Pfizer, at $20.
This was in smaller quantities, and obviously deals will be done to cut the price for bulk purchases, but Moderna is a commercial company, which has clearly stated its interest in making profits.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-good-news-but-high-price-may-restrict-access
Sounds like the Prince Andrew effect.
With the exeption at restaurants, and still not a word about face masks.
actually, when the prime minister got a question about wearing face masks at public transports, his respons was ”its not illegal to wear a mask”
Ive so far been very pro to how we have handled the pandemic so far, but i feel now they just refuse to change some things out of pride, and it bugs me.
Long covid appeared within a couple of months of covid so they've certainly had long enough to see whether that would appear after the vaccine, especially given the rigorous follow up protocols.
Isn't this better? If you submit it for peer-review, there'll be 200 odd people who have access to the peer review who can do insider trading.
Half true in terms of what I’m saying.
My point is that more people now know about these kinds of releases. The ‘Additional’ folks are profiting. It was always the case, but In a pre-Covid world it was Chinese whispers. It’s far more open now. The Trial results through to full reporting period used to be sensibly long.
With the Pfizer vaccine the stock price started running before the temperature parameters for storage were announced. The lag between a story of success and ‘qualified success’ saw funds make millions.
The whole thing is corrupt. I’m pointing fingers at Executive Boards, not Scientists.
Just tested positive.
They need a minimum number of cases - I believe they've set it to 152 - with the first interim reviews after 66 cases. They think they'll have "some" data in Q1/21.
If I do the usual back of an envelope calculation based on Manchester's current covid rate of around 400/100k/week - then just the initial UK trial group of 10k people (5k placebo, 5k vaccine) could give them that interim review quantity every month. The UK trial is being expanded to 15k and US trials are starting this month . However, the chances are that trial volunteers aren't quite that representative of the general population, plus that Manchester number is falling again. Still some results during Q1 sounds reasonable.
Best of luck mate, any symptoms? Regretting going to that Trump rally now?
Starting last Tuesday ive had a headache, cough, fever, and vomiting but not all at the same time. No headache since Thursday, cough only got bad over the weekend, fever on and off etc.
I'm hoping that since I've apparently had this for a week already its not going to get much worse but I don't really know what to expect.
How`s your breathing? From my understanding that`s the main thing that gets worse after a week of symptoms, apart from that it could be a good sign that it hasn`t gotten worse.
All the best!
This autumnal surge has been a nightmare for everyone but it’s definitely accelerating these phase 3 trials. If we’d kept cases at their summer levels we could have been waiting for preliminary results until the beginning of next year, or longer.