Cavani gets 3 match ban from FA for his social media post

[Andy_Cole]

Just realised the person in question wasn't even black.

So I have a childhood friend. We're all Indian, parents came to Manchester together etc. He's darker skinned than the rest of us. We refer to him (and he refers to himself) as 'Black Ali'. Obviously this is just a thing between friends, but I wouldn't think of it as racist? Or maybe it is. Just a common thing in my community to refer to people from their appearance. Ali is obviously quite a common name. Seems similar to the S American culture.

 

[Rajma]

The FA have made a fair share of boneheaded decisions over the years, buy this isn't one of them. The club was completely right not to appeal as well. Unless people think it would be great for team spirit if Cavani was to go around calling his teammates 'little blackies', United fans should be in agreement with the ban in principle. I don't care for what demeaning words cultures have appropriated as terms of indearment, and certainly latin american societies aren't on any moral high ground in how humans should communicate or treat each other in this age.

Feck off you racist prick.

 

[Manya.para.siempre]

Well thats a shame, I thought it was one of my more nuanced posts. Though I will admit to my massive ignorance on most subjects.

Apologies about the Uraguay and Equador mix up, surprising as I have read more on Uraguay in the last few days than at any other point in my life, even a excerpts of a book on historical and systemic racism. But I haven't been to either country and they are about as familiar to me as Sudan, though I expect thats the same as 90% of posters on this topic.

Anyway I wouldnt worry about the FA (assuming you are not playing football in England?) nor the British, though when in the UK I would abstain from fondly referring to people with dark skin as they would in Uraguay as it may cause confusion, but your call.

It's Uruguay not Uraguay (and Ecuador not Equador). If you're going to try to have a discussion about racism then at least get the spelling of my country correct.

So they agreed he wasn't being racist, but still gave him 3 match ban.

How can anyone take these clowns seriously when they can't even translate a simple sentence in Spanish correctly. Asi te quiero matador does not translate to I love you like a bullfighter. Not even close.

And Negrito is not a word that should be translated directly it's meaning and use goes far beyond it's literal translation into English.

The FA have made a fair share of boneheaded decisions over the years, buy this isn't one of them. The club was completely right not to appeal as well. Unless people think it would be great for team spirit if Cavani was to go around calling his teammates 'little blackies', United fans should be in agreement with the ban in principle. I don't care for what demeaning words cultures have appropriated as terms of indearment, and certainly latin american societies aren't on any moral high ground in how humans should communicate or treat each other in this age.

Your posts are very borderline racist themselves. Seems you have a problem with Latin Americans and how we use our language?

You think you're on some moral high ground to judge how we use our own words and culture?

We didn't invade hundreds of countries, we didn't kill entire indigenous races, we didn't enslave and kill black people, we Uruguay in fact were accused of using African players in the Copa America of 1916 because we were the first country to use black players, our 1950 world cup winning captain was black and nicknamed el Negro jefe (the black chief), our most traditional and cultural music is directly descended from Africa. So spare me the bullcrap about the word Negrito being demeaning. Your society is not in any moral high ground to tell us Latin Americans what is racist or not.

 

[pablo__p]

You gotta admire how FA, while fighting alleged racism, promote chauvinism and xenophobia
Well done.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Después de haber invadido cientos de países y de haberse enriquecido con los despojos ahora se creen que son la reserva moral del mundo.

Son una desgracia.

me gustan las tortugas

 

[Icemav]

Icemav simply likes to argue, guys. Straw man arguments in response is his forte, to be expected I suppose. Details, for example re nuances of language meaning are lost on some, particularly if they’re not familiar with that language or culture.

Another’s view in this thread that the club don’t wish to challenge because they’re afraid of being “tarred with the racist brush if they don’t tow the same line” you deem to be “nonsense”, Icemav? Why so dismissive? You know someone from the club hierarchy and know this not to be true? His rationale seems very plausible, to most I’d have thought. One would be naïve to think otherwise.

Defending the FA’s stance on racism is backed by virtually all, but if you really can’t comprehend the overwhelming reaction of the majority to the FA’s heavy-handed treatment of this particular case and where it might lead (see Kouroux’s comment among others), there’s little point in discussing it further. Maybe we can all join you in a chorus of “The FA always knows best” …I wish you well.

You seem to know a lot about me as a newbie.

There are two sides here, one that disagree with the FA's decision, and another that understand it.

I fall into the later camp. It is not more serious than that. I though personally have a an issue with anyone bemoaning PC culture etc. I am not sinply trying to provoke.

And no I don't just do this to argue. That is incredibly dismissive. I have an alternative point of view to you. Its not like I would say that RRRR just likes to debate and isn't worth listening to. If you dont want to discuss with someone with an alternative opinion then don't engage with them. Its quite simple.

 

[Icemav]

I've read lots of quotes/stances on here and tried to ignore them but can't here.. not sure if you're wumming or straw man - either is poor taste.

You've tried to compare it to Suarez (which shows a complete lack of knowledge of the case), mistakenly said Cavani was talking to someone with "dark skin", got the country wrong, misspelled Uruguay, admitted you've been reading up for a few days (a little knowledge is a dangerous thing), ignored people from the country who (based on first-hand knowledge from ... being born there) have told you what the word means in the context and tried to justify the FAs stance... even though they've charged him with being racist, when he wasn't.

How has my mention of Suarez displayed a complete lack of knowledge of the case? Suarez racially abused a dark skinned opposition player on a football field in Spanish. Cavani did not and sent a post in Spanish on social media to a friend (not dark skinned) affectionately which the FA were worried could be misconstrued by non Spanish speakers.

We have different opinions. Lets leave it at that. I understand the argument that the FA is being xenophobic, culturally insensitive and myopic, punitive, vindictive, counterproductive and perhaps even stupid to the point of causing harm.

Anyway this is not always the best format for discussion. Answering to too many different people on may different arguments. It is also a much more sensitive topic than say what formation Ole used and people are beginning to resort to ad hominems. Probably best to leave it here.

 

[Fridge chutney]

the FA were worried could be misconstrued by non Spanish speakers.

Very dangerous precedent.

Any foreign word that sounds or looks offensive in English should not be spoken or written by foreign players in their native language, even if it doesn't mean what the non-speaker thinks.

Very dystopian.

 

[Sean_RedDevil]

This has maybe nothing to do with Cavani's case at The FA but some people there are keeping their jobs only for a single reason.

 

[HarryRedCrumbs]

Very dangerous precedent.

Any foreign word that sounds or looks offensive in English should not be spoken or written by foreign players in their native language, even if it doesn't mean what the non-speaker thinks.

Very dystopian.

...like when Barthez called Gary Neville a filthy cul-de-sac

 

[SalfordRed18]

Just realised the person in question wasn't even black.

So I have a childhood friend. We're all Indian, parents came to Manchester together etc. He's darker skinned than the rest of us. We refer to him (and he refers to himself) as 'Black Ali'. Obviously this is just a thing between friends, but I wouldn't think of it as racist? Or maybe it is. Just a common thing in my community to refer to people from their appearance. Ali is obviously quite a common name. Seems similar to the S American culture.

I suspect this is the case in many friendship groups. You all have nicknames for eachother which is all fine within your group. If you were a professional footballer with a large public platform on insta, are you calling him black Ali for all to see?

 

[SalfordRed18]

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Precisely what I and others have been saying from day dot. For some reason people are taking this as a personal attack on them.

Getting a bit Rawkish on here

he got a ban let’s move on

Got rawkish a while back.

 

[::sonny::]

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[Icemav]

Very dangerous precedent.

Any foreign word that sounds or looks offensive in English should not be spoken or written by foreign players in their native language, even if it doesn't mean what the non-speaker thinks.

Very dystopian.

I am not thinking in terms of 1984, dystopian and other such concepts and ideas.

I just found this article which excellently captures what I am thinking on this subject https://www.goal.com/en/news/first-...n-footballers-keep/1cd21rta8eh521fqvd7zqn8tnq

As I mentioned in another post this is a very poor medium to express ideas fully without pumping out a 1000 words. A couple of times on the thread I have been accused of straw manning and Wumming. I would never wind people up on this subject and dont WUM on this forum aside from the odd sarcastic post about footy. I ultimately agree with the conclusion of the article that the FA has been harsh on Cavani and he shouldn't probably have receieved the 3 match ban. But who knows, a warning would have may kicked up the same derision. I just find it hard to condemn the FA for their decision on such a complex subject where they are try to draw a clear line in the sand.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Precisely what I and others have been saying from day dot. For some reason people are taking this as a personal attack on them.

Maybe because Simon Stone is talking BS. Cavani was charged and punished under the below rule

A breach of Rule E3 (1) is an “Aggravated Breach” where it includes a reference, whether express or implied, to any one or more of the following :- ethnic origin, colour, race, nationality, religion or belief, gender, gender reassignment, sexual orientation or disability

 

[mazhar13]

I am not thinking in terms of 1984, dystopian and other such concepts and ideas.

I just found this article which excellently captures the ideas I have in my head on this subject https://www.goal.com/en/news/first-...n-footballers-keep/1cd21rta8eh521fqvd7zqn8tnq

As I mentioned in another post this is a very poor medium to express ideas fully without pumping out a 1000 words. A couple of times on the thread I have been accused of straw manning and Wumming. I would never wind people up on this subject and dont WUM on this forum aside from the odd sarcastic post about footy. I ultimately agree with the conclusion of the article that the FA has been harsh on Cavani and he shouldn't probably have receieved the 3 match ban. But who knows, a warning would have may kicked up the same derision. I just find it hard to condemn the FA for their decision on such a complex subject where they are try to draw a clear line in the sand.

I get the approach you're taking here. You're thinking about this from their perspective and giving it some acknowledgement and maybe a tad bit of appreciation. Personally, whilst I do understand where they're coming from, my concern's over the fact that they wanted to punish Cavani from the start even though they acknowledged that he wasn't trying to do anything wrong.

Given that they acknowledged the fact that what Cavani said wasn't racist isn't typically deemed racist, they worst they should have done is warn Cavani. If they really, really wanted to hand down a punishment, they should have punished Manchester United for not educating Cavani over the use of his language. A warning to Cavani, maybe a fine of 1 million Pounds to United (harsh, but I'm trying to translate the 3-match ban to a monetary fine), and a mandatory scheduling of media training would have been more appropriate. That would have been an example set to football clubs to ensure that they don't miss out on any form of media training for new players. Instead, they tried to make an example out of someone who wasn't even attempting to bring the game into disrepute. In the end, they've come out to look worse, and it undermines their quest to be more accepting of others.

 

[Icemav]

I get the approach you're taking here. You're thinking about this from their perspective and giving it some acknowledgement and maybe a tad bit of appreciation. Personally, whilst I do understand where they're coming from, my concern's over the fact that they wanted to punish Cavani from the start even though they acknowledged that he wasn't trying to do anything wrong.

Given that they acknowledged the fact that what Cavani said wasn't racist isn't typically deemed racist, they worst they should have done is warn Cavani. If they really, really wanted to hand down a punishment, they should have punished Manchester United for not educating Cavani over the use of his language. A warning to Cavani, maybe a fine of 1 million Pounds to United (harsh, but I'm trying to translate the 3-match ban to a monetary fine), and a mandatory scheduling of media training would have been more appropriate. That would have been an example set to football clubs to ensure that they don't miss out on any form of media training for new players. Instead, they tried to make an example out of someone who wasn't even attempting to bring the game into disrepute. In the end, they've come out to look worse, and it undermines their quest to be more accepting of others.

The sanction you have suggested does sound more sensible and fair I agree.

 

[Red_toad]

Maybe because Simon Stone is talking BS. Cavani was charged and punished under the below rule

A breach of Rule E3 (1) is an “Aggravated Breach” where it includes a reference, whether express or implied, to any one or more of the following :- ethnic origin, colour, race, nationality, religion or belief, gender, gender reassignment, sexual orientation or disability

How did they define it as aggravated?

 

[el3mel]

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This is ridiculous. Fa are looking like absolute clowns in this issue.

 

[Fridge chutney]

I am not thinking in terms of 1984, dystopian and other such concepts and ideas.

I just found this article which excellently captures what I am thinking on this subject https://www.goal.com/en/news/first-...n-footballers-keep/1cd21rta8eh521fqvd7zqn8tnq

As I mentioned in another post this is a very poor medium to express ideas fully without pumping out a 1000 words. A couple of times on the thread I have been accused of straw manning and Wumming. I would never wind people up on this subject and dont WUM on this forum aside from the odd sarcastic post about footy. I ultimately agree with the conclusion of the article that the FA has been harsh on Cavani and he shouldn't probably have receieved the 3 match ban. But who knows, a warning would have may kicked up the same derision. I just find it hard to condemn the FA for their decision on such a complex subject where they are try to draw a clear line in the sand.

I haven't accused you of wumming.

I think the problem here is that they haven't drawn a clear line at all. They've drawn a very ambiguous line that is open to interpretation.

 

[kouroux]

Maybe because Simon Stone is talking BS. Cavani was charged and punished under the below rule

A breach of Rule E3 (1) is an “Aggravated Breach” where it includes a reference, whether express or implied, to any one or more of the following :- ethnic origin, colour, race, nationality, religion or belief, gender, gender reassignment, sexual orientation or disability

So if someone references to a nationality, it can be fall under this stupid breach ? A player could say something like " I love my Ivory Coast teammate" and he could potentially be banned then ?

 

[Drainy]

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[kouroux]

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This just shows that the FA doesn't give a single guck about fighting racism, it's all about PR and promotion for them. This is actually unbelievable, the way they're trying to shift the blame on the club now

 

[Hoboman]

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Cultural training for a man spent 13 years in Italy and France and speaking Spanish, Italian and French.
Would like FA executives themselves to take some common sence trainings.

 

[Member 101269]

Cultural training for a man spent 13 years in Italy and France and speaking Spanish, Italian and French.
Would like FA executives themselves to take some common sence trainings.

The Lewis model of culture suggests there are differences between those countries and the UK.

 

[Redlyn]

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I made the same point in a previous post. They should get told something. It's a rule very easy to fall prey to as a south American. Imagine this Moises Ecuadorian kid joining and faces a similar issue of social media wording just because he is being himself and talking like how everyone else in his country usually talks. We again go through the same thing and think it's not the club's responsibility to educate the player and just accept another ban? No, as a club we should have learnt from it the first time and try to prevent it.

 

[ASHWIT]

The next time a journalist refers to a "niggling" injury. I hope the same social media warriors will get him banned as its, "a bit close to a word that may possibly trigger people". But then is suppose they'd then get the same abuse for using a word which rhymes with the same bad word and the circle of idiocy would be complete!

 

[SuperiorXI]

The FA are a broken stairlift of an organisation

 

[ZupZup]

It's just such a stupid decision.

If you had 2 Chinese footballers here who didn't speak English. It would now be impossible for them to conversate in Chinese normally with each other because the Chinese word for 'that' or 'umm' sounds too much like the 'N' word and so both players would have to be punished as it could cause offence. 3 match bans all around! Such a dumb precedent to set.

 

[cyberman]

So if someone references to a nationality, it can be fall under this stupid breach ? A player could say something like " I love my Ivory Coast teammate" and he could potentially be banned then ?

He really is the white Pele..

 

[Decomposing In Paris]

I had sympathy with the FA. It was ridiculous to ban him, but until this comment about the club, it felt as though it was somewhat reluctant. I don’t remember any comments about Liverpool telling their players not to bite people.

 

[cyberman]

I suspect this is the case in many friendship groups. You all have nicknames for eachother which is all fine within your group. If you were a professional footballer with a large public platform on insta, are you calling him black Ali for all to see?

But if you are in a pub full of Spanish speakers and you hear Negrito between 2 friends. You take offense and somebody laughs and says its a friendly term in Spanish, it doesnt mean how it sounds and doesnt have an English meaning. They laugh and say Nego is the colour for Black ffs!! Chorkle chorkle..
Do you consider that racist? Do you demand that they stop or does it leave your mind completley?
Because this was in the Spanish section of the app as well.
Just because the FA charged Cavani doesnt mean its unacceptable in England.

 

[No Idea For Nickname]

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[SuperiorXI]

Gary was one of the first to go on about cultural and media training when this came about...

This is not needed in the case of players. If anything, the FA need cultural and media training.

 

[HarryRedCrumbs]

This conversation is a joke. We are discussing banning words from foreign languages because we think they offend us. The FA are feck'tards.

 

[Stacks]

I am not thinking in terms of 1984, dystopian and other such concepts and ideas.

I just found this article which excellently captures what I am thinking on this subject https://www.goal.com/en/news/first-...n-footballers-keep/1cd21rta8eh521fqvd7zqn8tnq

As I mentioned in another post this is a very poor medium to express ideas fully without pumping out a 1000 words. A couple of times on the thread I have been accused of straw manning and Wumming. I would never wind people up on this subject and dont WUM on this forum aside from the odd sarcastic post about footy. I ultimately agree with the conclusion of the article that the FA has been harsh on Cavani and he shouldn't probably have receieved the 3 match ban. But who knows, a warning would have may kicked up the same derision. I just find it hard to condemn the FA for their decision on such a complex subject where they are try to draw a clear line in the sand.

it's hard to disagree with the points made in the link

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

United should be petty and ask the racist FA for a full and exhaustive list of all words that cannot be used.

 

[SuperiorXI]

United should be petty and ask the racist FA for a full and exhaustive list of all words that cannot be used.

Would be great if they did but they won't.

 

[horsechoker]

People think Cavani isn't a racist, but this says otherwise:

Spoiler

otherwise

 

[Drainy]

People think Cavani isn't a racist, but this says otherwise:

Spoiler

otherwise