I would literally allow people to do whatever the hell they want as long as they signed agreements that waive their right to hospital care if they get it by being idiots.
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
That seems to show a slight increase in the 75-90 year olds in March?
Im not a doctor but why would they triage an elderly patient with brethlessness as non-covid without doing a test? Seems silly to me..
Yep, and let the tested or vaccined people into restaurants and video their enjoyment to people at anti lockdown rallies.
It shows proportion of cases in the coloured area. Absolute numbers (very far right hand side) are still falling.
Ah. Ok. Still hard to interpret as absolute numbers have been falling for all age groups, right?
To be fair, most elderly people would have been vaccinated before this time frame (I think?) so if we could see the data from December through to now it might look more dramatic.
Thats the point, absolute numbers are falling everywhere so its hard to see a vaccine effect with absolute numbers. There is a clear cascade working its way down the age groups as vaccines start to take an effect.
Just to be clear, as this shows proportion of cases, falls in one area necessitate a rise in others.
I get all that. I just don’t think the data they show there demonstrates a “vaccine effect. The most obvious difference between the first and most recent few weeks is a drop in 30 to 50 year olds. Although maybe that’s driven by vaccinated HCWs?
The proportional %s for the elderly are actually higher at the end than they are at the beginning. If you read the numbers anyway. The colour coding is confusing as hell.
What does she think killed him?I am sure most of them would be happy to sign these agreements
There is a huge green blob between mid and end of Feb which you seem to have ignored.
You couldn't be more wrong there Pogue, look again. Baseline week, 90+ are 2.03% of cases. 20th march 90+ are 0.30% of cases.
In my experience too many deaths in multi-generational households has been because of irresponsible family members not following the rules despite knowing they've got a clinically vulnerable and often housebound elderly grandparent, and in many instances not getting tested or taking precautions when symptomatic.
The young ones in those instances are usually fine but the elderly who could've lived a lot longer and didnt want that risk taken with their life effectively had that choice taken from them. The irony is that the young people on marches and those who take more risks, if they get sick, are the ones who get prioritised for the ventilators.
Gotcha. I was being dumb. Reading the % change as the actual %.
I think it'll only get worse in terms of obeying rules and restrictions, and I blame our government for that. People don't take them and their decisions seriously anymore.
I think i made the same mistake when i first looked at it!
Here is another, possibly simpler demonstration of the vaccine effect. @giggs-beckham , @Pogue Mahone see the second tweet. Very high levels of antibodies in older age groups.
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— Twitter API (@user) date
The other interesting element is the increase in detection in 10-19 year olds since beginning of March due to schools returning and increasing lateral flow testing.
It is always interesting to see cultural, regional variations in response to covid. We've got our versions of believers in conspiracy theories too.
There are still a few in my extended family who still believe that the ones who have died from or get severe covid are being punished for past sins. Others who think taking infections precautions is futile because everything is planned by a higher power anyway.
Illustrated below this tweet from recent cancellation of a lucrative cricket tournament due to an inevitable covid outbreak
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— Twitter API (@user) date
Well, actual numbers have fallen if you look at very top and bottom rows.
As ive said, as this shows proportion of cases, falls in one area necessitate a rise in others.
I have to be honest, I've never understood this particular attitude from some in the Muslim community. Its prevalent in my wife's Egyptian in-laws if they're very religious.
Yet they look before crossing the street. Surely if God has ordained that you won't die then, no point taking such precautions when crossing?
Similar with DNACPR discussions. 'We want everything done cos it is only god who can take away life'. I mean....surely your heart stopping beating is God's way of saying I'm taking away your life? And us jumping on top of your poor 90 year old relative and shocking her....is us trying to take that power away?
I'm really struggling to understand this bit of the story.
So she didn't take him to the hospital at any point but is sueing the hospital for not helping him? How on earth were they supposed to help him? Or did she finally take him when he was at death's door basically?
Well she started on Remdesivir immediately. I don't know about Covid treatment, I iust work in A/E, but I presume it was because she was clinically unwell. Also elevated D-Dimers are a predictor of mortality. We discharge most Covid patients.
If she tested negative my guess is we wpuld keep pumping diuretics into her until her blood tests (or something like fever) ventually gave the suggestion of an infection, at which point she would start an antibiotic.
There is an element in my opinion of pseudoreligious reasoning given to cover for selfishness and laziness with regards to the former.
Deeply frustrating, I know people in certain postcodes in inner city who have not observed a single day of lockdown other than not going to work because of furlough. Gatherings have always happened unabated (Eid, celebrations, mourings). Not being able to do it "openly" is their version of obeying lockdown rules.There are many in families who have fallen out as a result because of the inevitable deaths.
Also this peculiar belief that going into hospital makes their condition worse and more likely to die as a result of hospitalisation. Not just the older people believing that but sadly have had few a quite 30-40s as well from flat out refusing hospitalisation until its too late.
Heart failure is by far the most common cause of breathlessness in the elderly here. Given that we have a low number of cases at the moment, and she didn't come from a risk situation, that choice was made. The person who triaged her might get some bollocking though, dyspnea is one of the "hard" criteria to go there (others are cough, fever, smell and taste changes). I suspect they'll play it safer from now on. In general suspected heart failures go to normal ER. Much like fevers in whom a Urinary Tract Infect seems likely. This is adaptable to circumstances, like incidence and which town/area the person comes from.
People leading the Covid teams keep looking for reasons to triage them to the no-Covid area. The workflow is easier, it's more comfortable for patients and doctors, etc. Also triage is a quick process, patients don't always tell the truth (or realize what they are supposed to say).
I've only caught one other Covid case in my area and it was a young woman with pleuritic chest pain, no other symptoms. I only asked for a test because she somehow mentioned she had a cold a few days before. She bollocked me and started to taunt me by implying I was a bad doctor if I thought her symptoms were Covid. From her house spread one of the largest chain of transmissions in my island. I'd love to have confronted her a few days later to see her face.
The more we vaccinate old people, the higher the number of cases amongst children is
Yes. Hospital said they wouldn’t take him without a covid test and they refused a covid test because they did not believe covid existed. So they couldn’t take him and now she’s suing them for denying him help. She also refused to allow him to be treated for covid (because it doesn’t exist, obviously) and is mad that they wouldn’t tell her what was really wrong with him.
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Most here think that you can’t die from this unless you are almost terminally ill anyway because of the way data is reported. They always quote deaths of people with secondary diseases present separately and it’s approx. 80% of deaths mostly. What those morons don’t understand that it can be diabetes or minor heart issues that you could easily live with for years, and also that in the 50+ age group about 70% people have some sort of secondary disease anyway so the proportion is the only possible one.
Reading is hard, isnt it?The more we vaccinate old people, the higher the number of cases amongst children is
Yeah overly hard
Clearly
Brilliant message in that video. We have to question everything and think critically. Unfortunately the vast majority of people will believe everything they hear on the news without doing further research.I like the message of questioning everything, Corona has become like a religion you can't question
Joe Rogan says it best there, same as I've been saying for the past few weeks... that one year later we are still treating this virus like from when we first heard about it. Let me remind you that when we first heard about covid, they predicted that 10% of the population would die. Before you say "well yeah it would've if we didn't lockdown", how can you say that when the CDC shows us 0.05% mortality rate!
Rogan says it right there in that video, only 6% of deaths resulted only from pure covid deaths, the other 94% of deaths with 2.6 average co-moborbity. So when we have this data now, you have to ask WHY we are still treating this virus like we did from day 1.
I have a friend who went to get tested with her daughter... they registered to get tested, waited in line....unfortunately it took over 4 hours to wait so they said "screw it we'll come back another day" so they left without getting tested...... the next day they got an email saying they "tested positive" from their test. QUESTION EVERYTHING.
You think this is still about a virus at this point? This seems like governments flexing their power now.
Ah yes, the curfew argument. Not only have we seen covid tell the flu to take a vacation, tell cancer that it's not important anymore, it also now knows when to come out. So covid is activated past 9pm, but before that if groups congregate it won't be prevalent as much. See what I mean this might not be about the virus anymore?
The decision making of politicians and governments (flip flopping, moving of goal posts, etc) has made rational human thinkers question the RESPONSE to covid.
If anyone believes Covid is NOT real or doesn't exist, they are completely dumb.. we very much know that is real. Questioning the response is fair game.
In Japan for example, more people died from SUICIDE in October alone - which was more people than had died from Covid-19 over the entire 10 months in to date (SOURCE - https://www.forbes.com/sites/jessic...s-what-that-means-for-the-us/?sh=53c2b6de6d75)
In Ontario (my province in canada) more than 85% of deaths came from nursing homes, we have the longest lockdown (toronto) out of anywhere in north america, and suicides went up 4x amongst teenagers. We are now starting to do more harm than good with this virus that has a 0.05% mortality rate (Sourced by CDC).
Watch me be called a conspiracy theorist for bringing alternative views to this thread though... it doesn't fit their narrative of making this virus seem like it's so deadly!
Yes thanks for brining these alternative views.
Personally started travelling when the pandemic started last March, worst time to travel for sure, but having the time of my life travelling in Mexico for 6 months now and met loads of like minded people (lot of canadians) who refuse government restrictions and control.
"like minded people" certainly is one way to describe them.
Would affluent and like minded be the other?
Let me ask you this one thing, in which way do governments, I say plural cos the whole world is at it, benefit from locking people down for a year?
"people believe everything they see in the news but don't do their own research"
Then the research these people do consists of looking at random feckin webpages from nutjobs and Facebook posts.
Then the research these people do consists of looking at random feckin webpages from nutjobs and Facebook posts.
Politicians are incompetent rather than having an evil conspiracy plan. 9 out of 10 politicians are grifters that are in it for their own careers and easy compensation while the country and economy basically runs itself in normal times. During a crisis like Covid-19 they have no clue what to do and why would they? Half the parliament in Germany consists of economists and lawyers. What do they know about science, biology, medicine? They rely on saying and doing what their consultants tell them to do but the "elite" consultant companies that consult parliaments also consist of 100 % careerists that are mostly lawyers and economists. So what we get is this:
1. "No need for masks in private, that's silly, only a correctly applied FFP3 mask helps anyway. Don't take them away from professional healthcare workers."
2. "No, wait, masks for shopping now. And a normal scarf is completely fine as well, just cover your face, everything helps."
3. "Hold on, from today on only a medical mask is allowed, no more scarfs."
4. "Masks outside are silly. There is almost no way you get infected outside."
5. "Masks required outside in certain areas as well."
6. "Total lock down, you can go into the small supermarket where 2 people hardly fit into the same passage but the gigantic hardware store where you barely meet another person within 50 m^2 has to be closed."
7. "Lock down restrictions taken back, numbers looking better, yay."
8. "Wait, maybe not that good of an idea, back into full lock down again, numbers going up!"
9. "Vaccinations? Sure, sure, in 2026 maybe we'll have enough for everyone."
10. "Hmm, AstraZeneca is suspected to cause a rare form of cerebral venous sinus thrombosis. Maybe stop AZ for now until further research."
11. "Whatever, just continue with AZ, just because."
Etc.
1. "No need for masks in private, that's silly, only a correctly applied FFP3 mask helps anyway. Don't take them away from professional healthcare workers."
2. "No, wait, masks for shopping now. And a normal scarf is completely fine as well, just cover your face, everything helps."
3. "Hold on, from today on only a medical mask is allowed, no more scarfs."
4. "Masks outside are silly. There is almost no way you get infected outside."
5. "Masks required outside in certain areas as well."
6. "Total lock down, you can go into the small supermarket where 2 people hardly fit into the same passage but the gigantic hardware store where you barely meet another person within 50 m^2 has to be closed."
7. "Lock down restrictions taken back, numbers looking better, yay."
8. "Wait, maybe not that good of an idea, back into full lock down again, numbers going up!"
9. "Vaccinations? Sure, sure, in 2026 maybe we'll have enough for everyone."
10. "Hmm, AstraZeneca is suspected to cause a rare form of cerebral venous sinus thrombosis. Maybe stop AZ for now until further research."
11. "Whatever, just continue with AZ, just because."
Etc.
Asking questions is very easy, asking good questions is what makes a meaningful contribution to the world. That requires a base understanding of the things you’re enquiring about. Otherwise you’re just doing what toddlers do.I like the message of questioning everything, Corona has become like a religion you can't question
Would you praise someone for asking whether the sun is the centre of the solar system, based on what we know?