SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[2cents]

@Pogue Mahone not looking great with the schools is it?

Have to wonder where the feck we go here.

I live right in city centre Dublin. In normal times it’s pretty much always noisy on my street/out my window with general revelry, shouting, motorists removing clamps with hammers, the odd fight, etc. Obviously for the last year it’s been really quiet. However in the last three weeks or so the noise pollution has been slowly returning to pre-Covid times, despite pubs still being closed. I’m hearing parties in my building, drunken idiots singing and smashing shit on my doorstep, and the ubiquitous late night/early morning screaming which gives life in Dublin 1 so much character (I’m counting the seconds til I can get out of here).

I think we’re pretty much at the end of mass compliance in this city.

 

[McGrathsipan]

I posted a while ago about a house party full of older women in the house behind mine.
Well the woman of the house died last Tuesday.
Her funeral is today. I've counted about 50 people in the yard having a funeral party. I took a photo.
Police just arrived.
Mashed into a small back yard and not a mask in sight

There is no more compliance.
People are done

 

[Wumminator]

Yes thanks for brining these alternative views.

Personally started travelling when the pandemic started last March, worst time to travel for sure, but having the time of my life travelling in Mexico for 6 months now and met loads of like minded people (lot of canadians) who refuse government restrictions and control.

fecking hell. I wonder why you are trying to justify actions of selfish people?

 

[McGrathsipan]

I live right in city centre Dublin. In normal times it’s pretty much always noisy on my street/out my window with general revelry, shouting, motorists removing clamps with hammers, the odd fight, etc. Obviously for the last year it’s been really quiet. However in the last three weeks or so the noise pollution has been slowly returning to pre-Covid times, despite pubs still being closed. I’m hearing parties in my building, drunken idiots singing and smashing shit on my doorstep, and the ubiquitous late night/early morning screaming which gives life in Dublin 1 so much character (I’m counting the seconds til I can get out of here).

I think we’re pretty much at the end of mass compliance in this city.

Its coming to an end everywhere - when the vaccine role out is having zero effect on the cases you have to wonder.

Where do you live ? Is it down by Montpelier Hill or closer to the centre? Our offices are on Ormond Quay and I go in the odd day and can see more activity lately

 

[Port Vale Devil]

I posted a while ago about a house party full of older women in the house behind mine.
Well the woman of the house died last Tuesday.
Her funeral is today. I've counted about 50 people in the yard having a funeral party. I took a photo.
Police just arrived.
Mashed into a small back yard and not a mask in sight

There is no more compliance.
People are done

Well she is definitely done.

 

[Stanley Road]

I posted a while ago about a house party full of older women in the house behind mine.
Well the woman of the house died last Tuesday.
Her funeral is today. I've counted about 50 people in the yard having a funeral party. I took a photo.
Police just arrived.
Mashed into a small back yard and not a mask in sight

There is no more compliance.
People are done

Yeah, I see no point in unpoliced lockdowns anymore. Let everyone get on with it and I'll protect myself.

 

[Ecstatic]

I posted a while ago about a house party full of older women in the house behind mine.
Well the woman of the house died last Tuesday.
Her funeral is today. I've counted about 50 people in the yard having a funeral party. I took a photo.
Police just arrived.
Mashed into a small back yard and not a mask in sight

There is no more compliance.
People are done

Why did you take a photo?

 

[2cents]

Where do you live ? Is it down by Montpelier Hill or closer to the centre? Our offices are on Ormond Quay and I go in the odd day and can see more activity lately

I’m just off Parnell St between O’Connell and Gardiner St.

 

[McGrathsipan]

Why did you take a photo?

to count the amount of people.

Why am i staying in my fecking house for 13 months when this shower are constantly having parties. They have been at it all year. Even at a funeral. Which I hear was Covid related.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I live right in city centre Dublin. In normal times it’s pretty much always noisy on my street/out my window with general revelry, shouting, motorists removing clamps with hammers, the odd fight, etc. Obviously for the last year it’s been really quiet. However in the last three weeks or so the noise pollution has been slowly returning to pre-Covid times, despite pubs still being closed. I’m hearing parties in my building, drunken idiots singing and smashing shit on my doorstep, and the ubiquitous late night/early morning screaming which gives life in Dublin 1 so much character (I’m counting the seconds til I can get out of here).

I think we’re pretty much at the end of mass compliance in this city.

Yeah definitely. But I guess that's what happens after a year of some of Europe's strictest restrictions, a botched vaccine rollout, a total failure to increase ICU capacity, and no clear plan or communication from our shitty government about what is next.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yeah definitely. But I guess that's what happens after a year of some of Europe's strictest restrictions, a botched vaccine rollout, a total failure to increase ICU capacity, and no clear plan or communication from our shitty government about what is next.

Batched roll-out aside (and the UK is the one and only exception in Europe on this) everyone is in the same shit. We’re dealing with a virus that has become nearly twice as contagious and puts a higher % of people in hospital at a time when everyone is sick to the back teeth of lockdowns and large sections of society have basically stopped trying. It’s an absolute nightmare. What do you think have been done differently to prevent us ending up where we are now?

Bear in mind we’ve already seen exactly how quickly this runs away from us if the restrictions are eased even slightly. From lowest cases per capita in the EU to the highest, in the space of a few weeks. All the evidence you need that we don’t have an ounce of cop on between us and can’t be trusted to use our common sense in a less rigorous lockdown.

ICU capacity is a red herring. It can’t be magic’d up out of thin air. It can take years to train the necessary personnel to staff any extra beds. Plus if you have ICUs filled to capacity you basically have to shut down most of your normal hospital services. Which this long lockdown was aiming to avoid.

 

[McGrathsipan]

Batched roll-out aside (and the UK is the one and only exception in Europe on this) everyone is in the same shit. We’re dealing with a virus that has become nearly twice as contagious and puts a higher % of people in hospital at a time when everyone is sick to the back teeth of lockdowns and large sections of society have basically stopped trying. It’s an absolute nightmare. What do you think have been done differently to prevent us ending up where we are now?

Bear in mind we’ve already seen exactly how quickly this runs away from us if the restrictions are eased even slightly. From lowest cases per capita in the EU to the highest, in the space of a few weeks.

ICU capacity is a red herring. It can’t be magic’d up out of thin air. It can take years to train the necessary personnel to staff any extra beds. Plus if you have ICUs filled to capacity you basically have to shut down most of your normal hospital services. Which this long lockdown was aiming to avoid.

So we are in endless lock down then?
Vaccine roll out here will take 2 years at this rate

 

[Pogue Mahone]

So we are in endless lock down then?
Vaccine roll out here will take 2 years at this rate

The vast majority of us will be vaccinated before the end of summer.

I honestly don’t know where we go from here with the lockdown. At this stage I’m mainly furious with selfish pricks who couldn’t defer bags of cans at their friends house for another couple of months. I think we’ll stay with our current level of restrictions for the foreseeable future and our hospitals will still get overwhelmed, with as many people dying from avoidable non-covid deaths as die from the virus.

Shite state of affairs but we reap what we sow.

 

[Ecstatic]

to count the amount of people. Why am i staying in my fecking house for 13 months when this shower are constantly having parties. They have been at it all year. Even at a funeral. Which I hear was Covid related.

I understand your frustration on this.

I hope you take care of your mental health despite the constraints.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Batched roll-out aside (and the UK is the one and only exception in Europe on this) everyone is in the same shit. We’re dealing with a virus that has become nearly twice as contagious and puts a higher % of people in hospital at a time when everyone is sick to the back teeth of lockdowns and large sections of society have basically stopped trying. It’s an absolute nightmare. What do you think have been done differently to prevent us ending up where we are now?

Bear in mind we’ve already seen exactly how quickly this runs away from us if the restrictions are eased even slightly. From lowest cases per capita in the EU to the highest, in the space of a few weeks. All the evidence you need that we don’t have an ounce of cop on between us and can’t be trusted to use our common sense in a less rigorous lockdown.

ICU capacity is a red herring. It can’t be magic’d up out of thin air. It can take years to train the necessary personnel to staff any extra beds. Plus if you have ICUs filled to capacity you basically have to shut down most of your normal hospital services. Which this long lockdown was aiming to avoid.

I think I've already made it quite clear that we are being ridiculously restrictive for the sake of opening the school's up even though it's pretty obvious by now the schools are a worse transmitter than outdoor dining, retail, hairdressers etc. Just look at construction, 10k homes will not be built now this year if it's not opened up which would be an absolute disaster.

I also think that if people are already all breaking the restrictions then what more harm can actually be done by opening up some things within the county limit?

Yes the new variant is a bitch, I totally understand that, but we've spent 3 months in lockdiwn getting hospital admissions way, way down to a good level yet here we still are in the same position so what do we do here? Dublin has been in level 5 for 27 out of the last 29 fecking weeks!

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I think I've already made it quite clear that we are being ridiculously restrictive for the sake of opening the school's up even though it's pretty obvious by now the schools are a worse transmitter than outdoor dining, retail, hairdressers etc. Just look at construction, 10k homes will not be built now this year if it's not opened up which would be an absolute disaster.

Schools closed and construction open? Considering how many people benefit from keeping kids in school vs benefit from construction that’s not a trade off that society is willing to make. Might not be your personal preference but we can’t please everyone. And it’s definitely not obvious that schools are a worse transmitter than dining, retail, hairdressers etc seeing as cases stayed flat for three weeks with half the school years back (and the new variant completely dominant) while we saw exponential growth during/after school Christmas holidays when the pubs/restaurants/shops were at their busiest, with at least half the cases caused by the original much less contagious covid.

I also think that if people are already all breaking the restrictions then what more harm can actually be done by opening up some things within the county limit?

Yes the new variant is a bitch, I totally understand that, but we've spent 3 months in lockdiwn getting hospital admissions way, way down to a good level yet here we still are in the same position so what do we do here? Dublin has been in level 5 for 27 out of the last 29 fecking weeks!

Like I said. It’s a nightmare. I don’t know what to do. I’m all out of ideas. I suspect NPHET/the government are too. I’m still waiting for suggestions about how we could be in a better position than we are now? All you’ve suggested are loosening restrictions which will obviously have accelerated the deterioration.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Schools closed and construction open? Considering how many people benefit from keeping kids in school vs benefit from construction that’s not a trade off that society is willing to make. Might not be your personal preference but we can’t please everyone. And it’s definitely not obvious that schools are a worse transmitter than dining, retail, hairdressers etc seeing as cases stayed flat for three weeks with half the school years back (and the new variant completely dominant) while we saw exponential growth during/after school Christmas holidays when the pubs/restaurants/shops were at their busiest, with at least half the cases caused by the original much less contafcovid.



Like I said. It’s a nightmare. I’m still waiting for suggestions about how we could be in a better position than we are now? All you’ve suggested are loosening restrictions which will obviously have accelerated the deterioration.

Ah come on, you mean in December when they opened up county wide travel and everybody fecked off back home for Christmas, in the middle of freezing weather where the virus is most transmissible? Surely September and October after the schools came back are much better examples seeing as things were relatively under control during the summer before then. I mean cases go up any time the schools go back and down any time they're off so.. what more evidence do we want here?

I'm assuming you have kids which is why you're in the "schools back above all else" stance, grand, that's understandable. I don't so frankly I'd like to see other areas opened up or at least some sort of hybrid. I'm not sure where the obsession which schools being the main priority above everything else came from to be honest. I mean I know plenty of primary teachers and absolutely none of them want to be back there cause they think it's utterly pointless and overly risky.

Look, we could ease restrictions and vases could rise and we could end up in another lockdown when hospitals start coming close to capacity but.. so what? Isn't that essentially what every single other country is doing bar us? They open up so people can live some semblance of a life for at least a while and then lock back down when it becomes too dangerous again, like France and Italy. Why are we perennially locked down even though hospitals are absolutely nowhere near capacity now? It hasn't given us a lower death rate than any of those countries so why are we being so much more restrictive than them all?

Right now the whole media seem to be saying that we'll need to stay in this ineffective lockdown for six months til we're all vaccinated. What the feck like? That's madness. What's the point? Why not open up for a few months if we are going to be back into a lockdown regardless?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Ah come on, you mean in December when they opened up county wide travel and everybody fecked off back home for Christmas, in the middle of freezing weather where the virus is most transmissible? Surely September and October after the schools came back are much better examples seeing as things were relatively under control during the summer before then. I mean cases go up any time the schools go back and down any time they're off so.. what more evidence do we want here?

I'm assuming you have kids which is why you're in the "schools back above all else" stance, grand, that's understandable. I don't so frankly I'd like to see other areas opened up or at least some sort of hybrid. I'm not sure where the obsession which schools being the main priority above everything else came from to be honest. I mean I know plenty of primary teachers and absolutely none of them want to be back there cause they think it's utterly pointless and overly risky.

I’ll tell you where the obsession comes from. It’s because as a society, we should aspire to do what’s best for the most vulnerable. I also have friends who are teachers and the ones who work in underprivileged areas are horrified by what’s happening to the kids they’re supposed teach. Many of them have not engaged at all during lockdown. Literally done no schoolwork for almost a whole academic year. I hate my kids being home from school because I hate them being denied that social interaction but at least I’m privileged enough to be able to make sure they keep on top of their work. Because, believe me, the gap between the haves and have nots gets wider with every week of home-schooling. And that could leave scars on an entire generation.

Look, we could ease restrictions and vases could rise and we could end up in another lockdown when hospitals start coming close to capacity but.. so what? Isn't that essentially what every single other country is doing bar us? They open up so people can live some semblance of a life for at least a while and then lock back down when it becomes too dangerous again, like France and Italy. Why are we perennially locked down even though hospitals are absolutely nowhere near capacity now? It hasn't given us a lower death rate than any of those countries so why are we being so much more restrictive than them all?

The UK variant has only recently started to sweep through mainland Europe. That’s why they’re all heading into lockdown now. Before that, they were like us last autumn. Able to keep a lid on things while keeping society relatively open. We’ve already seen what happens when you do that with the UK variant dominant. Highest cases per capita in the whole of Europe. Our cautious approach now is because of how fecked we were in January/February. The weather won’t save us. It’s been lovely these last two weeks, right?

Right now the whole media seem to be saying that we'll need to stay in this ineffective lockdown for six months til we're all vaccinated. What the feck like? That's madness. What's the point? Why not open up for a few months if we are going to be back into a lockdown regardless?

The reason we can’t “just open up” (and I’m repeating myself here) is because we know what happens if we do that. Our hospitals came damn close to going under just two months ago. We don’t the same (or worse) to happen again. Every avoidable covid death we accept now is even harder to take with a vaccination program already under way (and yes, I know it’s a shit show, although mainly for reasons completely out of our hands)

 

[Massive Spanner]

I’ll tell you where the obsession comes from. It’s because as a society, we should aspire to do what’s best for the most vulnerable. I also have friends who are teachers and the ones who work in underprivileged areas are horrified by what’s happening to the kids they’re supposed teach. Many of them have not engaged at all during lockdown. Literally done no schoolwork for almost a whole academic year. I hate my kids being home from school because I hate them being denied that social interaction but at least I’m privileged enough to be able to make sure they keep on top of their work. Because, believe me, the gap between the haves and have nots gets wider with every week of home-schooling. And that could leave scars on an entire generation.



The UK variant has only recently started to sweep through mainland Europe. That’s why they’re all heading into lockdown now. Before that, they were like us last autumn. Able to keep a lid on things while keeping society relatively open. We’ve already seen what happens when you do that with the UK variant dominant. Highest cases per capita in the whole of Europe. Our cautious approach now is because of how fecked we were in January/February. The weather won’t save us. It’s been lovely these last two weeks, right?



The reason we can’t “just open up” (and I’m repeating myself here) is because we know what happens if we do that. Our hospitals came damn close to going under just two months ago. We don’t the same (or worse) to happen again. Every avoidable covid death we accept now is even harder to take with a vaccination program already under way (and yes, I know it’s a shit show, although mainly for reasons completely out of our hands)

I agree about the most vulnerable completely but.. that's not limited to schools is it? There are plenty of other vulnerable people in society stuck at home right now. My point was that what you want open really is selfish for everyone including you. Schools are the best thing to be open for you. It's all just justifying them being open over other important things in order to make us feel better at the end of the day isn't it?

I think I've already made it clear that I don't expect us to open up like we did in December, if I haven't then sorry but I thought that was obvious. To me opening up means removing county wide (not country wide) restrictions, sending more people back to work and allowing some sort of outdoor dining in the summer months as long as the venue's have good measures in place. I don't think doing that would cause cases to rise as exponentially as they did in winter. If it fails, go back into level 5 and everyone, me included will hopefully then realize that we'll just have to stay here til at least September and so be it.

 

[Steven Seagull]

I’m 33 and live in a mainly rules respecting area in a 50/50 lab-con, 50-50 brexit split. I’d say the mixing has gone up ten fold this month. Mainly elders going to see grandkids etc.

I don’t blame them at all but the increase in cases is inevitable. Unless the vaccines are a preventative measure

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I agree about the most vulnerable completely but.. that's not limited to schools is it? There are plenty of other vulnerable people in society stuck at home right now. My point was that what you want open really is selfish for everyone including you. Schools are the best thing to be open for you. It's all just justifying them being open over other important things in order to make us feel better at the end of the day isn't it?

I’ve literally just explained to you why it’s important for school to stay open for reasons that don’t benefit me at all. Imagine you’re arguing with a sterile robot. The points remain just as valid. Society needs to identify priorities and - unlucky for you but lucky for me - doing our best to stop underprivileged kids falling by the wayside is deemed important enough for us to put up with a few months pause on construction (never mind haircuts, pints or shopping).

I think I've already made it clear that I don't expect us to open up like we did in December, if I haven't then sorry but I thought that was obvious. To me opening up means removing county wide (not country wide) restrictions, sending more people back to work and allowing some sort of outdoor dining in the summer months as long as the venue's have good measures in place. I don't think doing that would cause cases to rise as exponentially as they did in winter. If it fails, go back into level 5 and everyone, me included will hopefully then realize that we'll just have to stay here til at least September and so be it.

Look at the number we have now. Look at how quickly they went south over winter. At the very least you can surely see why loosening restrictions right now would be a hell of a ballsy move, right?

For what it’s worth, I could get on board with getting rid of the 5k limit and getting outdoor sports going again. Everyone is so broken now that giving them something to look forward to, day by day, might actually improve compliance. Whether that’s a game of hurling or tennis or a long walk in the countryside. It’s by no means an obvious call though. In fact it’s a huge risk.

I only got into this back and forth with you because I disagree that our pandemic has somehow been uniquely badly managed. Our location and links to the UK put us at the epicentre of a horrendous epidemic and there hasn’t been any easy decisions. So I can’t get on board with the idea that any of them have been obviously incorrect.

My pet peeves have been how long it’s taken to set up hotel quarantine and the closure of outdoor sports. Other than that, there’s been no obvious terrible calls. We’ve just had a tonne of bad luck with stupid poxy uk variant and our cultural inclination for indoor socialising (i.e. boozing) which is the worst possible national hobby to have during a pandemic!

 

[golden_blunder]

I think I've already made it quite clear that we are being ridiculously restrictive for the sake of opening the school's up even though it's pretty obvious by now the schools are a worse transmitter than outdoor dining, retail, hairdressers etc. Just look at construction, 10k homes will not be built now this year if it's not opened up which would be an absolute disaster.

I also think that if people are already all breaking the restrictions then what more harm can actually be done by opening up some things within the county limit?

Yes the new variant is a bitch, I totally understand that, but we've spent 3 months in lockdiwn getting hospital admissions way, way down to a good level yet here we still are in the same position so what do we do here? Dublin has been in level 5 for 27 out of the last 29 fecking weeks!

I hear ye. I have my 2 kids off. Wasn’t happy with the numbers locally, just not going down. We will have them on our backs soon. I will send them back once it’s safe or once I get my vaccine, whatever’s first. I have a feeling it’ll get closed again after Easter, you know every muppet is going to be doing something.
every day I look out the window and see drunken groups of young ones, as young as 10,11, 12, drunken, girls and boys. You just wanna bash your head off a rock

 

[2cents]

I’ve literally just explained to you why it’s important for school to stay open for reasons that don’t benefit me at all. Imagine you’re arguing with a sterile robot. The points remain just as valid. Society needs to identify priorities and - unlucky for you but lucky for me - doing our best to stop underprivileged kids falling by the wayside is deemed important enough for us to put up with a few months pause on construction (never mind haircuts, pints or shopping).



Look at the number we have now. Look at how quickly they went south over winter. At the very least you can surely see why loosening restrictions right now would be a hell of a ballsy move, right?

For what it’s worth, I could get on board with getting rid of the 5k limit and getting outdoor sports going again. Everyone is so broken now that giving them something to look forward to, day by day, might actually improve compliance. Whether that’s a game of hurling or tennis or a long walk in the countryside. It’s by no means an obvious call though. In fact it’s a huge risk.

I only got into this back and forth with you because I disagree that our pandemic has somehow been uniquely badly managed. Our location and links to the UK put us at the epicentre of a horrendous epidemic and there hasn’t been any easy decisions. So I can’t get on board with the idea that any of them have been obviously incorrect.

My pet peeves have been how long it’s taken to set up hotel quarantine and the closure of outdoor sports. Other than that, there’s been no obvious terrible calls. We’ve just had a tonne of bad luck with stupid poxy uk variant and our cultural inclination for indoor socialising (i.e. boozing) which is the worst possible national hobby to have during a pandemic!

At some stage soon we should have all our over 70s, frontline health-workers, and vulnerable/under-lying conditions population vaccinated. Do you not think that once we reach that stage, it becomes a lot more feasible to begin opening up, whatever the daily case numbers are?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

At some stage soon we should have all our over 70s, frontline health-workers, and vulnerable/under-lying conditions population vaccinated. Do you not think that once we reach that stage, it becomes a lot more feasible to begin opening up, whatever the daily case numbers are?

That could happen within a month. I suspect that’s why April 8th was pencilled in as the date to start easing off restrictions.

It’s such a tough call though. We have many more people aged 30 to 70 than aged 70 plus. So a completely uncontrolled epidemic in the under 70s could presumably still overwhelm the hospitals. I haven’t done the maths but that’s exactly the sort of number crunching that the PH specialists and epidemiologist will be doing to inform NPHET’s decisions.

 

[Sarni]

In my experience too many deaths in multi-generational households has been because of irresponsible family members not following the rules despite knowing they've got a clinically vulnerable and often housebound elderly grandparent, and in many instances not getting tested or taking precautions when symptomatic.

The young ones in those instances are usually fine but the elderly who could've lived a lot longer and didnt want that risk taken with their life effectively had that choice taken from them. The irony is that the young people on marches and those who take more risks, if they get sick, are the ones who get prioritised for the ventilators.

Yeah but the idiots will still be idiots. This way at least we won’t have to admit them to hospital.

 

[Wolverine]

Brilliant message in that video. We have to question everything and think critically. Unfortunately the vast majority of people will believe everything they hear on the news without doing further research.

Joe Rogan says it best there, same as I've been saying for the past few weeks... that one year later we are still treating this virus like from when we first heard about it. Let me remind you that when we first heard about covid, they predicted that 10% of the population would die. Before you say "well yeah it would've if we didn't lockdown", how can you say that when the CDC shows us 0.05% mortality rate!

Rogan says it right there in that video, only 6% of deaths resulted only from pure covid deaths, the other 94% of deaths with 2.6 average co-moborbity. So when we have this data now, you have to ask WHY we are still treating this virus like we did from day 1.

I have a friend who went to get tested with her daughter... they registered to get tested, waited in line....unfortunately it took over 4 hours to wait so they said "screw it we'll come back another day" so they left without getting tested...... the next day they got an email saying they "tested positive" from their test. QUESTION EVERYTHING.

You think this is still about a virus at this point? This seems like governments flexing their power now.

We should definitely think critically. My grandma lived in Toronto, she died of covid. She had high blood pressure, which is a comorbidity. About 70% of older adults - aged above 60 have it - that's a large number of people.

The fact is that the reason we have been able to keep covid deaths to what they are because of an availability of doctors, availability of ventilators. Once you saturate that and if you have an exponential rise in cases/admissions that you run out of oxygen, you run out of beds, of ventilators, of staff to look after you. It's nearly happened in the UK, its happened in other countries and it could happen anywhere.

Joe Rogan is an idiot, that comedian in that clip is a boring, idiot with stupid ideas. The very opposite of critical thinking.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

We should definitely think critically. My grandma lived in Toronto, she died of covid. She had high blood pressure, which is a comorbidity. About 70% of older adults - aged above 60 have it - that's a large number of people.

The fact is that the reason we have been able to keep covid deaths to what they are because of an availability of doctors, availability of ventilators. Once you saturate that and if you have an exponential rise in cases/admissions that you run out of oxygen, you run out of beds, of ventilators, of staff to look after you. It's nearly happened in the UK, its happened in other countries and it could happen anywhere.

Joe Rogan is an idiot, that comedian in that clip is a boring, idiot with stupid ideas. The very opposite of critical thinking.

Not to mention obesity. Another important comorbidity, which affects just under one in two US citizens. Not that Rogan gives a shit. He hates fat people because they’re too lazy to catch, kill and eat elks. Or something.

 

[Sarni]

Brilliant message in that video. We have to question everything and think critically. Unfortunately the vast majority of people will believe everything they hear on the news without doing further research.

Joe Rogan says it best there, same as I've been saying for the past few weeks... that one year later we are still treating this virus like from when we first heard about it. Let me remind you that when we first heard about covid, they predicted that 10% of the population would die. Before you say "well yeah it would've if we didn't lockdown", how can you say that when the CDC shows us 0.05% mortality rate!

Rogan says it right there in that video, only 6% of deaths resulted only from pure covid deaths, the other 94% of deaths with 2.6 average co-moborbity. So when we have this data now, you have to ask WHY we are still treating this virus like we did from day 1.

I have a friend who went to get tested with her daughter... they registered to get tested, waited in line....unfortunately it took over 4 hours to wait so they said "screw it we'll come back another day" so they left without getting tested...... the next day they got an email saying they "tested positive" from their test. QUESTION EVERYTHING.

You think this is still about a virus at this point? This seems like governments flexing their power now.



Ah yes, the curfew argument. Not only have we seen covid tell the flu to take a vacation, tell cancer that it's not important anymore, it also now knows when to come out. So covid is activated past 9pm, but before that if groups congregate it won't be prevalent as much. See what I mean this might not be about the virus anymore?

The decision making of politicians and governments (flip flopping, moving of goal posts, etc) has made rational human thinkers question the RESPONSE to covid.

If anyone believes Covid is NOT real or doesn't exist, they are completely dumb.. we very much know that is real. Questioning the response is fair game.

In Japan for example, more people died from SUICIDE in October alone - which was more people than had died from Covid-19 over the entire 10 months in to date (SOURCE - https://www.forbes.com/sites/jessic...s-what-that-means-for-the-us/?sh=53c2b6de6d75)

In Ontario (my province in canada) more than 85% of deaths came from nursing homes, we have the longest lockdown (toronto) out of anywhere in north america, and suicides went up 4x amongst teenagers. We are now starting to do more harm than good with this virus that has a 0.05% mortality rate (Sourced by CDC).

Watch me be called a conspiracy theorist for bringing alternative views to this thread though... it doesn't fit their narrative of making this virus seem like it's so deadly!

0.05%. where do you even get that figure? Is it just a number of deaths of completely healthy people divided by entire population or what?

It’s not ‘alternative’ views or critical thinking, it’s being wrong about something those people clearly have no clue about. As it’s been pointed out multiple times that co-morbidities can include obesity, hypertension and diabietes, things that are present among vast majority of 50+. It doesn’t make their lives worthless. I am really amazed at how people can discount someone’s live because they are not 100% healthy. It’s just disgusting. It’s like you only have right to live if you are 40 or younger and completely healthy.

It really takes just a little bit of logic to understand the seriousness of this pandemic. For someone to deny it in any way doesn’t suggest critical thinking to me, it suggests ignorance, selfishness and inability to understand what happens around us.

 

[horsechoker]

I’m 33 and live in a mainly rules respecting area in a 50/50 lab-con, 50-50 brexit split. I’d say the mixing has gone up ten fold this month. Mainly elders going to see grandkids etc.

I don’t blame them at all but the increase in cases is inevitable. Unless the vaccines are a preventative measure

Sounds affluent and like-minded

 

[Jippy]

A rare instance of Hancock being right, urging Tory MPs not to remove their whole shirt for the photo op when getting the jab. It's a weird unpleasant trend.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/03/20/keep-shirt-says-hancock-jab-middle-aged-men/

 

[Massive Spanner]

I’ve literally just explained to you why it’s important for school to stay open for reasons that don’t benefit me at all. Imagine you’re arguing with a sterile robot. The points remain just as valid. Society needs to identify priorities and - unlucky for you but lucky for me - doing our best to stop underprivileged kids falling by the wayside is deemed important enough for us to put up with a few months pause on construction (never mind haircuts, pints or shopping).



Look at the number we have now. Look at how quickly they went south over winter. At the very least you can surely see why loosening restrictions right now would be a hell of a ballsy move, right?

For what it’s worth, I could get on board with getting rid of the 5k limit and getting outdoor sports going again. Everyone is so broken now that giving them something to look forward to, day by day, might actually improve compliance. Whether that’s a game of hurling or tennis or a long walk in the countryside. It’s by no means an obvious call though. In fact it’s a huge risk.

I only got into this back and forth with you because I disagree that our pandemic has somehow been uniquely badly managed. Our location and links to the UK put us at the epicentre of a horrendous epidemic and there hasn’t been any easy decisions. So I can’t get on board with the idea that any of them have been obviously incorrect.

My pet peeves have been how long it’s taken to set up hotel quarantine and the closure of outdoor sports. Other than that, there’s been no obvious terrible calls. We’ve just had a tonne of bad luck with stupid poxy uk variant and our cultural inclination for indoor socialising (i.e. boozing) which is the worst possible national hobby to have during a pandemic!

I never said it was uniquely badly managed though did I? Obviously we are not the only country to make a balls of it. I mean you only need look at our deaths and length of our lockdowns to see that we have managed it badly compares to a lot of other similarly sized European countries though, no? I reckon you must be the last person in the country still defending how the government have handled this.

And no obvious terrible calls? What about opening everything up for Christmas when every other country was closing things?

All I want is some sort of idea other than "let's lock down for another six months and hope the vaccines fix everything" while we destroy more jobs and lives and plunge into even more debt. I don't think that's unrealistic. Where's the plan? Seriously, where is it?

 

[Steven Seagull]

Sounds affluent and like-minded

I wish

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I never said it was uniquely badly managed though did I? Obviously we are not the only country to make a balls of it. I mean you only need look at our deaths and length of our lockdowns to see that we have managed it badly compares to a lot of other similarly sized European countries though, no? I reckon you must be the last person in the country still defending how the government have handled this.

And no obvious terrible calls? What about opening everything up for Christmas when every other country was closing things?

All I want is some sort of idea other than "let's lock down for another six months and hope the vaccines fix everything" while we destroy more jobs and lives and plunge into even more debt. I don't think that's unrealistic. Where's the plan? Seriously, where is it?

What do you suggest? Seriously? What would you do? As I keep saying these are all incredibly tough decisions and I’m flat out of ideas, personally.

Opening up for Christmas was a gamble alright. Although the chance for so many elderly people to spend some time with their kids/grandkids at that time of year was huge. So deferring that lockdown for a week or two arguably a gamble worth taking. Plus we’d be probably be in the same situation we are now regardless.

The plan was obviously to lock down like this time last year and have a summer like last summer. While everyone gets vaccinated. Which would have been great. The combination of the uk variant and people being less diligent than they were the first time round has screwed us. Unfortunately, I don’t see any alternative to what we have done so far and need to keep on doing now. If you have any brainwaves I’m all ears.

 

[Wolverine]

Not to mention obesity. Another important comorbidity, which affects just under one in two US citizens. Not that Rogan gives a shit. He hates fat people because they’re too lazy to catch, kill and eat elks. Or something.

"Oh god you're so tough, with your open nose and throat"

 

[Pogue Mahone]

"Oh god you're so tough, with your open nose and throat"

lol: love Bill Burr

 

[Wibble]

All I want is some sort of idea other than "let's lock down for another six months and hope the vaccines fix everything" while we destroy more jobs and lives and plunge into even more debt. I don't think that's unrealistic. Where's the plan? Seriously, where is it?

The UK have been utterly incompetent throughout barring their rapid vaccination program roll out.

However, lock-downs are one of a few weapons that you have to keep infections under control while you vaccinate. You can't make it not so by wishing unfortunately.

The only way to not lockdown before full vaccination is to virtually eradicate (ironically using rapid extreme lock-downs) like NZ and Australia have done and you need to get there in the first place, which might have been close to impossible without fully closed international and internal borders, concrete quarantine arrangements and early extreme lockdown until case of community transmission are zero.

 

[berbatrick]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Wibble]

Well this could be a bit shit for our pets if it proves to be true.

https://www.theguardian.com/science...w-covid-variant-heart-problems-pets-cats-dogs

 

[GloryHunter07]

I’ll tell you where the obsession comes from. It’s because as a society, we should aspire to do what’s best for the most vulnerable. I also have friends who are teachers and the ones who work in underprivileged areas are horrified by what’s happening to the kids they’re supposed teach. Many of them have not engaged at all during lockdown. Literally done no schoolwork for almost a whole academic year. I hate my kids being home from school because I hate them being denied that social interaction but at least I’m privileged enough to be able to make sure they keep on top of their work. Because, believe me, the gap between the haves and have nots gets wider with every week of home-schooling. And that could leave scars on an entire generation.

Well said. There have been studies that show underprivileged kids fall behind during school holidays in normal times. Extrapolate that over 1 year and you have an absolute disaster that these kids will never recover from.

 

[Ecstatic]

Where's the plan? Seriously, where is it?

The plan is deployed as expected as follows:

"let's lock down for another six months and hope the vaccines fix everything" while we destroy more jobs and lives and plunge into even more debt. I don't think that's unrealistic.