Lingard to join West Ham on loan

[Paul_Scholes18]

Another alternative. Here we go:

Fans were toxic and turned or broked him down.
If supported by United fans they decline

Players have to take responsibility for their own situation, and I’m glad Lingard finally did.

I think you may be on to something there. Hopefully noone did read the CAF.

Could be a huge factor for Martials form this season and I guess he could be a world star in another club.

 

[kouroux]

It's not that complicated, some players are meant for some teams, some managers and some systems. If they're playing well elsewhere after having poor at United, it doesn't mean getting them back will turn around their fortunes.

 

[McTerminator]

He’s got a point that Jesse is a cnut? Wow!

I did not see him use that word?

He made the point that Jesse stunk the place out for two years and is all of a sudden better now he’s left. This is factual, if somewhat harsh in its terminology.

Jesse was poor for us for a long time in a number of systems, for a number of managers.

I wish him every success at West Ham, but I really really do not want to see him in a United shirt again. However good his purple patch for the hammers may be.

Surely that’s fair?

 

[GazTheLegend]

You are wrong he was quality when we got second place under Mourinho and played for England. Before that a decent backup player.
He was only pure shit under Ole.

The revisionism on this forum is astounding at times. Can you guys not think further than 3 games back?

 

[Abraxas]

It's certainly looking a bit odd to have a player in his late twenties out on loan performing nicely when we have issues in a few of the positions he can play.

There are a lot of explanations of course - different teams, maybe he needed a change, he was poor for us for a while, he can't really play centrally for us. But it certainly would be nice if he was here performing well rather than at West Ham and with a few performances we've seen from our striker and right sided players, even more so.

 

[wolvored]

Alternatively, without the immense pressure of fans who wont accept anything less than a win in every game, a player like Lingard is more free to play his game.

Go to a West Ham forum and read their match thread for yesterdays game and see the difference between that and anything you'd read on here. They were 3-0 up and didnt get a win, and their fans largely are ok with the result, some citing their injury problems, others accepting the fact that on the day the opposition was better than them. Of course they are disappointed with the manner of the result to lose a 3 goal lead, but arent necessarily disappointed with the result itself.

Now compare that to what this place would have been like if we were to throw away a 3-0 lead. Within minutes of the final whistle we'd have multiple new threads saying how our players arent good enough, are complete bottlers, the manager is shit, and bumping of every other negative thread.

Its not hard to see why players might struggle to enjoy playing for our club when we have one of the most toxic, self entitled fanbases in the world.

The thing with that is our expectations are far greater even though we haven't challenged for the title in 8 years, due to being the best team for 20 years. People still haven't adapted, me included, and still think we should be winning if we go 2-3 goals in front.

 

[EvilChuck]

The thing with that is our expectations are far greater even though we haven't challenged for the title in 8 years, due to being the best team for 20 years. People still haven't adapted, me included, and still think we should be winning if we go 2-3 goals in front.

I think we'd all be disappointed if we'd had the same result from the position West Ham were in sunday, but thats the point. West Ham fans are talking about how well they did, so the likes of Lingard get a free pass from their fans even though he was part of a team that dropped points from such a strong position. Our fanbase wouldnt accept that (rightly so) and so if a player doesnt have the pressure from fans that its not acceptable to lose from that position, they feel more relaxed.

The solution isnt to lower our expectations, but to improve the mentality of our squad. If that means getting rid of the likes of Lingard, and replacing them with Bruno type players, who want to drag the whole team by the scruff of the neck, then thats what we do. The poster i initially replied to seemed to suggest that Lingard was doing well because of coaching, however the coach involved is Moyes and we all know how that went when he came here as well.

 

[Stacks]

I think we'd all be disappointed if we'd had the same result from the position West Ham were in sunday, but thats the point. West Ham fans are talking about how well they did, so the likes of Lingard get a free pass from their fans even though he was part of a team that dropped points from such a strong position. Our fanbase wouldnt accept that (rightly so) and so if a player doesnt have the pressure from fans that its not acceptable to lose from that position, they feel more relaxed.

The solution isnt to lower our expectations, but to improve the mentality of our squad. If that means getting rid of the likes of Lingard, and replacing them with Bruno type players, who want to drag the whole team by the scruff of the neck, then thats what we do. The poster i initially replied to seemed to suggest that Lingard was doing well because of coaching, however the coach involved is Moyes and we all know how that went when he came here as well.

United fans are hilarious. So Moyes is a great coach now. He could just as easily be in the relegation zone next season.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

So Moyes is a great coach now.

He never was.

But he clearly isn't quite as clueless as some claimed he was.

Football (bloody hell) is a bit of an up-and-down business, who knew?

 

[MadDogg]

I did not see him use that word?

He made the point that Jesse stunk the place out for two years and is all of a sudden better now he’s left. This is factual, if somewhat harsh in its terminology.

Jesse was poor for us for a long time in a number of systems, for a number of managers.

I wish him every success at West Ham, but I really really do not want to see him in a United shirt again. However good his purple patch for the hammers may be.

Surely that’s fair?

Lingard may not have scored a great deal but his general performances were decent up until the start of last season. Up until that time we almost always played better as a team with Lingard in there than we did with whoever some fans wanted to play instead, even if they were more individually talented in theory.

He then had an absolutely terrible first half of the 19/20 season, probably related to the personal issues he was having off the field. He followed that with 12 months where he basically didn't play at all (he had a total of 6 matches worth of minutes in all competitions) before going to West Ham.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Lingard may not have scored a great deal but his general performances were decent up until the start of last season. Up until that time we almost always played better as a team with Lingard in there than we did with whoever some fans wanted to play instead, even if they were more individually talented in theory.

He then had an absolutely terrible first half of the 19/20 season, probably related to the personal issues he was having off the field. He followed that with 12 months where he basically didn't play at all (he had a total of 6 matches worth of minutes in all competitions) before going to West Ham.

Agree he had one really good season under Mourinho when we ended second and a really good world cup for England. Before that he was pretty good in big games like cup finals and a decent squad player in general. Under LVG he was not great under the way we played, but the players around him was not much better to be fair. I rather have him than Rooney at the time.

After Ole took over he was fine under the honey moon period although not a standout player like Pogba or Rashford. He ended the season really poorly after his injury if I remember it right.

 

[Ekeke]

If we ever play against San Marino we'd better start him

 

[adexkola]

Nominated for PL Player of the month.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Nominated for PL Player of the month.

He probably deserves the award. Not sure how many games that counts?

I think Shaw would be my pick though since it includes the derby right?

Iheanacho as well for a hattrick, but a good game vs Sheffield is not as impressive as beating Man City.

 

[adexkola]

He probably deserves the award. Not sure how many games that counts?

I think Shaw would be my pick though since it includes the derby right?

Iheanacho as well for a hattrick, but a good game vs Sheffield is not as impressive as beating Man City.

Shaw would be my pick as well, just think the nomination alone is an indication of how well he has done for West Ham. Long may it continue

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Just in case you've all forgotten.


That said, good for Jesse, he's very clearly better being a big fish in a small pond than a small fish in a big pond. He will not replicate his West Ham form back at United, the pressure is too great here.

 

[Dante]

Nominated for PL Player of the month.

Best player in the league. He's found his level.

 

[AgentSmith]

Just in case you've all forgotten.


That said, good for Jesse, he's very clearly better being a big fish in a small pond than a small fish in a big pond. He will not replicate his West Ham form back at United, the pressure is too great here.

That's a nice contrast to the affable persona Ole employs in interviews and press conferences. The ability to be brutal in the dressing room counter balanced by the restraint to never be brutal in the press seems a good division to have. Obviously reading too much into it from one 10 second clip but it was still enjoyable to see a glimpse of it.

It's difficult to say definitively but I have a feeling Ole is as frustrated and angry watching some of the performances from our attackers and midfielders this season as us; he just doesn't have viable alternatives to bring in as replacements and won't throw the underperforming players under the bus as a result.

Agree on Lingard. West Ham is the perfect platform for him to shine while the demands of United are too much.

 

[MattofManchester]

Agree on Lingard. West Ham is the perfect platform for him to shine while the demands of United are too much

Was it though? Lingard was a decent squad option for us under Mourinho.

He had a lot of personal issues. I think it's underestimated how much that can affect a person.

West Ham was probably a fresh start where he could get regular game time to find his feet.

I don't think it had anything to do with the status of the club.

 

[AgentSmith]

Was it though? Lingard was a decent squad option for us under Mourinho.

He had a lot of personal issues. I think it's underestimated how much that can affect a person.

West Ham was probably a fresh start where he could get regular game time to find his feet.

I don't think it had anything to do with the status of the club.

The way the opposition set up against West Ham and the amount of space Lingard gets as a result, compared to United, is one of the main reasons for his return to form imo.

He’s also playing as the definite starting no.10 with the whole system geared towards his strengths. At United he’d be on the bench behind Bruno or shoved out on the wing; either way he wouldn’t be playing the way he is now.

I agree the change of scenery has helped but it’s the space, system, and main man status that Lingard enjoys at West Ham that have been the major factors. He wouldn’t be afforded those same benefits at United.

 

[Blueman]

I shit you not.... Whats the common theme between Lingard, Lukaku, Di'Maria. They were all brilliant before they joined United, at Utd they came under the media scrutiny and spotlight where every single mistake is amplified... They leave United and they were actually good after-all. Too much pressure.

United get a rough ride in the media right now because they're not winning. The media highlight this player or that player being the problem - for the clicks and views, the fans believe it

It's true I tell ya, been watching United for years, it was the same for SAF at the beginning, but he was a phenomenom, he stuck to his guns and believed (For example) that "kids" can win the PL, or that Ronaldo was going to be as good as he was, despite what the media say.

It's happening with Maguire right now, I expect him to be the next expensive fall guy but he's probably the most important rock at the back who fights for the club, thats a rare commodity nowadays, but one or two mistakes under the spotlight and he's "shit". I dont believe it tbh

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

I shit you not.... Whats the common theme between Lingard, Lukaku, Di'Maria. They were all brilliant before they joined United, at Utd they came under the media scrutiny and spotlight where every single mistake is amplified... They leave United and they were actually good after-all. Too much pressure.

United get a rough ride in the media right now because they're not winning. The media highlight this player or that player being the problem - for the clicks and views, the fans believe it

It's true I tell ya, been watching United for years, it was the same for SAF at the beginning, but he was a phenomenom, he stuck to his guns and believed (For example) that "kids" can win the PL, or that Ronaldo was going to be as good as he was, despite what the media say.

It's happening with Maguire right now, I expect him to be the next expensive fall guy but he's probably the most important rock at the back who fights for the club, thats a rare commodity nowadays, but one or two mistakes under the spotlight and he's "shit". I dont believe it tbh

I agree the media pressure do not really help. We need a manager that can absorb that pressure and reduce it for the players. Ole is dealing with media fairly well, but he is not big enough to be able to deflect pressure away from the players. Mourinho blamed them and LVG not sure what he did. Moyes was not able to deal with the pressure himself.

 

[McTerminator]

Lingard may not have scored a great deal but his general performances were decent up until the start of last season. Up until that time we almost always played better as a team with Lingard in there than we did with whoever some fans wanted to play instead, even if they were more individually talented in theory.

He then had an absolutely terrible first half of the 19/20 season, probably related to the personal issues he was having off the field. He followed that with 12 months where he basically didn't play at all (he had a total of 6 matches worth of minutes in all competitions) before going to West Ham.

Couldn’t disagree more.

excluding his one good season Lingard was generally incredibly poor even ignoring his lack of goals and assists.

His link up play was generally abysmal along with his ball retention and decision making. He was truly awful for us for a very long time.

Before that he was decent I will admit culminating in that one good season for mourinho, but then he became what I have described above and those poor performances lasted for bear enough three to four years!

 

[sugar_kane]

Can anyone remember what Lingard had been doing prior to Ole going sick at him there? It's so out of character it must have been something pretty bad. He was subbed about 5 minutes after.

If memory serves correct Lingard had been given lots of chances up until that point and been repeatedly fairly dire - he certainly was in the first leg. Everyone was pretty awful that game but Lingard spent the entire game hiding from the ball, really frustrating stuff. He was subbed at half time then too.

edit: going back through the results/line ups up til that point it seems Lingard had been dropped since the Arsenal loss on 1st Jan (when he was subbed off at 58 minutes) and then brought back in for the two City games, so potentially frustration at being given another chance and not delivering.

Also Ole would have been feeling the pressure at that point as Jan 2020 was the month where we went on that terrible run just before we signed Bruno, with defeats against Burnley, Liverpool and Arsenal. Unbelievable that was only just over a year ago! Seems like a lifetime.

 

[Rightnr]

Nominated for PL Player of the month.

Voted for him since we're not looking to sell Shaw in the summer.

 

[Bilbo]

I shit you not.... Whats the common theme between Lingard, Lukaku, Di'Maria. They were all brilliant before they joined United, at Utd they came under the media scrutiny and spotlight where every single mistake is amplified... They leave United and they were actually good after-all. Too much pressure.

United get a rough ride in the media right now because they're not winning. The media highlight this player or that player being the problem - for the clicks and views, the fans believe it

It's true I tell ya, been watching United for years, it was the same for SAF at the beginning, but he was a phenomenom, he stuck to his guns and believed (For example) that "kids" can win the PL, or that Ronaldo was going to be as good as he was, despite what the media say.

It's happening with Maguire right now, I expect him to be the next expensive fall guy but he's probably the most important rock at the back who fights for the club, thats a rare commodity nowadays, but one or two mistakes under the spotlight and he's "shit". I dont believe it tbh

Totally agree that the spotlight this club are under often proves too much for certain players, but I'm not sure that applies to Lingard. He has shone here in the past. I think he's been a little unfortunate in that his time to prove himself (pre-Bruno under Ole) was probably his worst period of form for the club, and since Bruno signed he hasn't had a look in for obvious reasons.

I'm pleased for him. He's always been a likeable person and to see him playing well now is a win for him and a win for United. I can see a lot of clubs wanting to sign him this summer.

 

[FerociousCorgis]

Been shown to not be good enough here. Hopefully he plays decently well with west ham rest of year and we can maximize transfer value for him. Be just like us to not strike when the value is highest and try and bring him back just to repeat past mistakes and lose all value. Plenty of holes to fill and keeping lingard wont solve any of them

 

[Marwood]

The way the opposition set up against West Ham and the amount of space Lingard gets as a result, compared to United, is one of the main reasons for his return to form imo.

He’s also playing as the definite starting no.10 with the whole system geared towards his strengths. At United he’d be on the bench behind Bruno or shoved out on the wing; either way he wouldn’t be playing the way he is now.

I agree the change of scenery has helped but it’s the space, system, and main man status that Lingard enjoys at West Ham that have been the major factors. He wouldn’t be afforded those same benefits at United.

Yeah agree with that.

If he gets the ball centrally with space he's very good at quickly turning and progressing up the pitch. He can shoot from distance as well.

But if you watch his West Ham games the same problems are there, choice of pass, weight of pass, basic retention. All the stuff you need to ge good at if you're playing for a team that dominates the ball. Which hopefully is what we'll soon be.

 

[GazTheLegend]

United fans are hilarious. So Moyes is a great coach now. He could just as easily be in the relegation zone next season.

This forums lost its shit honestly I don't know what's going on anymore

 

[adexkola]

United fans are hilarious. So Moyes is a great coach now. He could just as easily be in the relegation zone next season.

He's always been a good coach to be honest. I know this place likes to pretend his Everton stint doesn't exist, but still.

 

[48 hours]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Sensational return? Players do have to go back to their clubs when loans end

 

[R'hllor]

Now that would be funny.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Sensational return? Players do have to go back to their clubs when loans end

I wouldn’t be against him returning if he keeps this form up but he’s only going to be a squad player here now we’ve got Bruno. I think the best option for both Jesse and us would be to move permanently, less pressure and regular football and we’re seeing him flourish. If we could do some kind of deal involving him and cash for Rice that would be the ideal scenario for me.

 

[Idxomer]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Sensational return? Players do have to go back to their clubs when loans end

Knee-jerk amd brainless if it happens.

 

[FireballXL5]

Giving Ole a new contract and Lingard coming back...they're spoiling us.

 

[Carl]

If he keeps up this form we'd be stupid to not welcome him back as a part of the squad. I'd rather bring Jesse back than persist with VDB in the 10.

 

[James35]

I'm choosing to believe this is just a bullshit story.

If true, the club will continue going nowhere fast.

 

[DWelbz19]

Sell him and Van De Beek (whilst he still holds value) and we should be looking at about £40m between the two of them.

 

[elmo]

I shit you not.... Whats the common theme between Lingard, Lukaku, Di'Maria. They were all brilliant before they joined United, at Utd they came under the media scrutiny and spotlight where every single mistake is amplified... They leave United and they were actually good after-all. Too much pressure.

United get a rough ride in the media right now because they're not winning. The media highlight this player or that player being the problem - for the clicks and views, the fans believe it

It's true I tell ya, been watching United for years, it was the same for SAF at the beginning, but he was a phenomenom, he stuck to his guns and believed (For example) that "kids" can win the PL, or that Ronaldo was going to be as good as he was, despite what the media say.

It's happening with Maguire right now, I expect him to be the next expensive fall guy but he's probably the most important rock at the back who fights for the club, thats a rare commodity nowadays, but one or two mistakes under the spotlight and he's "shit". I dont believe it tbh

Di maria didn't perform because he never wanted to be here. He did well playing for real madrid and they probably have more media spotlight on them than us.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

United fans are hilarious. So Moyes is a great coach now. He could just as easily be in the relegation zone next season.

anyone who says that man is a great manager/ coach is frankly not a Man Utd fan.

biggest fraud of a manager I’ve seen.

any manager can have some limited success given enough seasons and enough clubs. Which is exactly what he’s done.

I would walk across the street to avoid him if I ever saw him, as I’m not sure I could trust myself to tell him exactly what I think of him.