Solskjaer is third best United manager in history for some. The level of delusion regarding Ole is amazing
Is Jose Mourinho still our best manager post Fergie?
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He didn't get players which he wanted for his style. But he was through and through United manager. Attacking style, promoting youth, tactically one of the best in the world. He was the one who should have got "full backing" and third season
By some you mean probably about 4 people. Yes.
LVG had problems with signings since his time at Barca. He needed a DOF more than anyone post-Fergie, he got Woodward instead.
Both sides are unbearable to be honest. We win a game “ha! I told you I was right about Ole!” We lose a game “ha! I told you I was right about Ole!” I hate the tribalism of it all.
Im “Ole out” because I want us to be challenging on all fronts again & just don’t think he was what it takes. But despite what the “ole in” lot think I take zero pleasure in being right about him. I want to be wrong, I want him to be as great as these lot think he is. I’ll back him because I have to because let’s be honest, he’s going nowhere. So I just really really hope I’m wrong, but I know I’m not.
Definitely, there were some awful performances i cant lie, but things were starting to come together towards the end. I always liked the way he set us up in big games we never got dominated.
How perfectly apt. Someone trying to defend Ole has decided that AC Milan of this season are as good as the AC powerhouse of old because of their league position. I couldn’t have wished for a better reply.
Now you are arguing about 2nd rate teams being better than other 2nd rate teams…even though I disagree re the two Spanish clubs you can have it all. Let’s say Ole did beat better EL teams…they are still EL teams!!
Mou wins. Accept it, own it and just move on. It shouldnt to matter to you if you believe in Ole long term anyway as Mou is a short term coach by nature.
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That’s fair enough. Can’t argue with how you feel.
I just disagree to the fact that although we look happier. We are still a pile of rubbish, being lead by a follower. He’s in no way shape or form a leader. Out of all of our managers after SAF I’d put him bottom of the list of who I’d want instructing me into battle. I’d rather instruct myself which is what it feels like watching United atm.
Someone that knows their History. I like it.
That was Jose's team. Not the players as a large proportion of the ones who collapsed in both Jose's last 6 months and at the end of Ole's first season have been improved as players once Ole's man management has got to work on them. Luke Shaw being a prime example.
At the end of the day we need the Glazers to stump up the money we are making the club to improve the quality of the squad. We also need better coaches as the man management of the manager can only take a team so far.
Folk won't like this but yes he is.
That's the thing people who are big Ole supporters have blamed Ole. It's that each person have their own way of criticizing, some like to go over the top and some don't. I don't think any Ole supporter will tell you he has been successful in cup competition. But the issue starts when we start asking why Jose wasn;t protected or why Jose didn't get more time or how Ole has not made any progress. You could see some posters do that here in this thread. Mock Ole and be happy that they are being proven right. I feel both the sides have to take blame for that.
I completely agree with your last para. Yes there are better options and I feel an ambitious board would have said bye bye to Ole and hired a Zidane or Conte. But that's how we are run as a club. They are happy with these top 4 position and Ole gives them that. Having said that I feel there will be more pressure on Ole to win a trophy next season. Surely he can't hind behind the Progress tag line.
We came 6th in the league when we won the two trophies under Jose.
Jose will always be a mystery here. You hire him, he wins you a couple of trophies and then gets an 81 point finish and suddenly we thought, could this be us back in a real title race? Then we don’t back him he leaves and then we end up signing the players he wanted for his replacement.
crazy thing is I actually agree with Woodward not backing him - he was such a pain to listen to and suffer through. He was never right for us. The weird thing though is why didn’t we just sack him then? We wasted 6 months just watching him wait to be sacked and be more and more provocative.
Agree re next season. Excuses for me have worn out (can you tell!! Jeez I think I aged 5 years watching that peno shoot out) but for the rational ones who are still giving Ole benefit of the doubt he surely will have to challenge for something next season.
Jose's tenure is viewed with the benefit of hindsight.
As someone who hates his guts, I'd say up to the midway point of his 2nd season, he was by far the best manager of the four. The Sanchez transfer was the beginning of the end, and events like the Lukaku, Shaw, Pogba, and Martial debacles are what really sealed people's hatred for him.
I'd say objectively speaking, he's still been the best so far. Doubly so if we assume Ole will crash and burn and be sacked like the others. If we assume Ole will maintain an upward trajectory, then Ole can be potentially seem as having the better approach which will eventually translate into him having the better long term effects on the club.
All that said, I personally can't bring myself to say that he's been the best cause I just hate his guts. So the "honour" goes to Ole for me.
As someone who hates his guts, I'd say up to the midway point of his 2nd season, he was by far the best manager of the four. The Sanchez transfer was the beginning of the end, and events like the Lukaku, Shaw, Pogba, and Martial debacles are what really sealed people's hatred for him.
I'd say objectively speaking, he's still been the best so far. Doubly so if we assume Ole will crash and burn and be sacked like the others. If we assume Ole will maintain an upward trajectory, then Ole can be potentially seem as having the better approach which will eventually translate into him having the better long term effects on the club.
All that said, I personally can't bring myself to say that he's been the best cause I just hate his guts. So the "honour" goes to Ole for me.
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Ole is a perfect Glazer's manager a yes man, high demanding manager's like Mourinho and Conte for example will not fit their narrative because they want to buy better players which costs more money. I don't like Mourinho as a manager because his defensive mind but something happened between him and Ed which probably was a broken verbal agreement in buying players. This team needs players for some positions and if they don't buy them then City will win the league again and United will extend their gap without a title to 9 years.
I feel more positive about this team now that finished 2nd and lost the Europa league final than Jose's team that finished 2nd and won. With Jose, that felt like we were at our peak. With Ole, it feels like we are still improving and moving in the right direction...
Who gives a shit about our best manager in a shitty period like the post Fergie era one?
This discussion is honestly pointless.
This discussion is honestly pointless.
Nope, Jose’s football was atrocious and he had no future planning. Even when winning trophies you could see the sticky tape peeling off, it was inevitable it was going to collapse. God knows where we’d be now if we’d stuck with him, still have Fellaini starting no doubt. Ole’s team has a future, it’s been getting better and better. Progression is not a straight line. I actually love watching this team 99% of the time, I can’t wait for each game. Jose was so bad I started to fall out of love with the club. I’d rather win nothing and enjoy each game than win tinpot trophies with the toxic one.
Did we get Willian and Perisic after Jose left?
Do you wish we had?
He wanted to turn us into Dad's Army, and we'd be looking at an even bigger rebuild, a couple of years down the line.
Trophies, yes he is! However would I choose him over OGS? NO, OGS might not be good enough, but he can make the football tolerable to watch and he does get us far in cups. Think that is more due to the fact that the Bruno signing as kicked some of the players up the backside.
Jose won a couple of second-tier pots, and did so via a fairly easy route to the final in both cases. Then he left us with an expensive, ageing, unhappy mess of a team that played shit football. He did not do a good job.
As for Ole, it depends on what comes next. He's tried to build a new team and a new culture. If that leads to sustained success - even if he isn't the manager - then you would say he was successful in his first three seasons. If this rebuild turns out to be a mirage and in 12 months time we're facing another manager and another expensive rebuild, then clearly he was no better than Jose. At the moment its hard to know.
As for Ole, it depends on what comes next. He's tried to build a new team and a new culture. If that leads to sustained success - even if he isn't the manager - then you would say he was successful in his first three seasons. If this rebuild turns out to be a mirage and in 12 months time we're facing another manager and another expensive rebuild, then clearly he was no better than Jose. At the moment its hard to know.
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Read the post. I agreed with Woodward not backing him. I hate almost everything about Mou’s style but he was successful here.
Re Mou, my point is why did Woodward sign up to the Mou train and bail out midway. It’s not like we didn’t have the money because we’ve spent heavily since Ole came on the very players Mou wanted.
Every discussion on here is Pointless, nothing comes from any of it so don’t see much difference with this thread
People who are still salty about Jose leaving.
He won some trophies, so based on that yes. But people weren't happy with the football, plus the media circus he brings doesn't work at all with the extra focus and extra scrutiny we get. A match made in hell, and he seems a spent force in football these days.
Also worth remembering that it's not Ole's fault we haven't won anything in that long, Mourinho was in charge to 2 of those seasons post the trophy wins. He was sacked part way through that last season as the football was terrible and the results were bad too. As a match-goer, it felt a bit like you'd accept a bit of a trade off that if the football wasn't that great that at least the results would be there, but we had neither.
People want United to play on the front foot, exciting, attacking, the "United way" - what we got under Mourhinho was often overly defensive & rarely exciting. I wasn't happy to see him arrive (right manager, wrong time - he'd have been better to follow Sir Alex) & was glad to see him go. But I felt that he had to come in and work with what he had and be pragmatic. Pragmatic often meant over-defensive & nobody was that into the football we played. Clearly it was going to take multiple transfer windows for him to reshape the team and I suspect that in the end, as the football wasn't great, that the club just thought we can't back this guy fully. With every failure, the following manager's jobs got harder, plus the poor period dragged on further, thus adding even more to that pressure. After that initial peak, we'd regressed massively under Mourhino, getting the club back on track and back into a place where players want to come to has been a big task.
So I'd say Jose causing us to regress and crash and burn is a black mark on his record.
We just lost a Europa League to a ridiculously fine margin. Yes we should have won it in normal time, or course. But we were beaten by a team who play in a way that we struggle to break down. A pragmatic, defensive and Mourinho-esque performance from Villareal, ironically. It's 100% clear to me that investment is what we need, some of which can be funded by sales. In retrospect, Ole was slow to make subs in the final, but we have a thin squad, we'd played 61 games 2nd only to City, as as we know City has the most expensive sports squad in the world (featuring zero youth players aside from Foden). City literally have 2 teams
Tiny margin
We are indeed lucky he wasn’t sold and Danny rose brought in
In terms of success? Yes
In terms of how the football was played? No
In terms of the squad being in a good place? No
In terms of the atmosphere around the place? God no
It can be true that he is our most succesful manager since Ferguson and that getting rid of him when we did was the right decision as well, we should have just been smarter and appointed better after him
In terms of how the football was played? No
In terms of the squad being in a good place? No
In terms of the atmosphere around the place? God no
It can be true that he is our most succesful manager since Ferguson and that getting rid of him when we did was the right decision as well, we should have just been smarter and appointed better after him
Nah it’s more Ole bashing. Forum is full of it since losing a final
No, he was ultimately a failure and left the club in a complete mess.
It's toxic is what it is. We lost on a penalty taken by a goalkeeper. I know that people don't rate Villa real but the Spanish league has been among the best for the past decade or so.
At the end of the day the people who are moaning would have downplayed the EL as a nothing tournament if we had won it. They want a tier 1 manager and can't see that Ole can get there. I believe that we need to give him time to finish his rebuild and see where we are then.
If we keep getting CL qualification and the style of football keeps getting better then let's see where it goes. When we fail to qualify for the CL we can start pointing fingers at the manager. If we want to get past that we need better investment.
Exactly.
He is totally toxic.
It all comes down to what you want from all this. I'm fortunate enough to have seen us win everything multiple times over and ultimately a United manager will always be judged on how many trophies he delivers so nobody can really question that Jose has been the most successful.
Like I said though its what you want from all this, and speaking from a personal perspective I'd become very blasé about this club during LVG and Jose's time here. The football wasn't enjoyable, I couldn't really identify with the team and I didn't like the managers - particularly Jose who should have been sacked the morning after the Sevilla post-match interview. The fact that he wasn't was depressing. I'd been raised on a manager that clearly lived for the club and that's more important to me than many other things. I still never missed a game of course but I'd stopped going to Old Trafford.
Ole changed that. Yes being a former player helped but that wasn't the half of it. He bleeds United and expects nothing less from the players too. I like this team. I like what we are trying to do here. People are too quick to throw accusations of sentiment at Ole-backers, and maybe that is true for some, but it also belittles the progress that he has made as manager. One final defeat doesn't change that. I've always been prepared to say his time is up when it feels like we've peaked, but I don't feel that way at all. Even if he doesn't get much further than this, failing at doing something the right way is better at succeeding the wrong way.
This clubs identity is the best thing about it by far and Ole gets that. Its a shame that so many of you don't.
Like I said though its what you want from all this, and speaking from a personal perspective I'd become very blasé about this club during LVG and Jose's time here. The football wasn't enjoyable, I couldn't really identify with the team and I didn't like the managers - particularly Jose who should have been sacked the morning after the Sevilla post-match interview. The fact that he wasn't was depressing. I'd been raised on a manager that clearly lived for the club and that's more important to me than many other things. I still never missed a game of course but I'd stopped going to Old Trafford.
Ole changed that. Yes being a former player helped but that wasn't the half of it. He bleeds United and expects nothing less from the players too. I like this team. I like what we are trying to do here. People are too quick to throw accusations of sentiment at Ole-backers, and maybe that is true for some, but it also belittles the progress that he has made as manager. One final defeat doesn't change that. I've always been prepared to say his time is up when it feels like we've peaked, but I don't feel that way at all. Even if he doesn't get much further than this, failing at doing something the right way is better at succeeding the wrong way.
This clubs identity is the best thing about it by far and Ole gets that. Its a shame that so many of you don't.
I feel it is easy to rate them based on trophies and overall quality as managers.
1 Mourinho (3 trophies, 2 CL qualifications)
2 LVG (1 trophy, 1 CL qualification)
3 Moyes (1 trophy)
4 Ole (2 CL qualifcations)
1 Mourinho (3 trophies, 2 CL qualifications)
2 LVG (1 trophy, 1 CL qualification)
3 Moyes (1 trophy)
4 Ole (2 CL qualifcations)
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Stupid post. Ole was one penalty away from bettering him.
Totally agree.
Are we counting charity shields for moyes?
Seriously get a grip. Moyes over Ole ffs
You are right should be 3 for Mourinho. It is a minor title, but better than nothing. Right now I dream for the days we could win the shield.
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