The vaccines | vaxxed boosted unvaxxed? New poll

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

It’s mad to see the nonsense being posted about vaccines in the football forum when this gets discussed outside the current events echo chamber.

An argument that gets used a lot on there (and I’ve seen on social media elsewhere) is that it isn’t worth getting vaccinated “because we now know that vaccinated people can still transmit the virus”.

This blows my mind for two reasons: a) We always knew vaccinated people could transmit the virus because we always knew vaccines were less than 100% effective and b) Why can’t they understand that even a reduction in the rate of transmission is still beneficial?

It’s weird/fascinating to see legitimately stupid notions taking hold in a diverse range of people. Weird/fascinating/depressing.

Don't forget that you're talking about people who, each for their own reasons, have deliberately decided to ignore all the facts and the advice of the vast majority of experts and they filter everything through their personal biases.

I can only speak for my country. This flimsy argument gained a lot of traction right after the government officials announced certain, let's call them privileges, for the fully vaccinated and, at the same time, played the social obligation card to boost the vaccination campaign. Now, because nobody wants to be labelled a bad citizen, the local anti-vax movement started looking for a response. When all the facts disagree with you, nothing's better than a fallacy: Treat the vaccines like the magic potion in Asterix and then use the hospitalizations and the deaths of the fully vaccinated people to argue that the vaccines are not effective. Then mix it up with some lies, like the "vaccine or no vaccine is one and the same for the Delta variant" argument that's currently very popular.

I admire your efforts (and others') on this forum. Personally, i've given up. Reason and logic have zero effect when you're talking to a wall. After all, this is the age in which the right to an opinion and "winning the fight of opinions" is more important than the truth. I have a colleague who's an avid member of the anti-vax campaign, and he spouts the nonsense you mention on a daily basis. I know him well and i can guarantee you that if the Cuban vaccine was made available and if it was a Commissar the official urging people to get the jabs, he would be the first in line to get vaccinated. Now, all he does is talk and talk about the ineffectiveness of the German and Anglo-Saxon "rubbish". You simply can't fight this and the worst thing is that it makes people who just need a bit more convincing a lot more hesitant.

 

[mav_9me]

Can't find it now but someone had mentioned their friend wasn't sure about vaccination as they had already been infected. This is one reason why it's still a good idea to get vaccinated.


In today’s MMWR, a study of COVID-19 infections in Kentucky among people who were previously infected with SAR-CoV-2 shows that unvaccinated individuals are more than twice as likely to be reinfected with COVID-19 than those who were fully vaccinated after initially contracting the virus

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html

 

[Dan_F]

Finally got my second dose. Quite an eventful morning after one of my car tyres got punctured on the way there.

Weirdly it hurt way more when the nurse put it in this time. First time I genuinely didn’t notice it go in. Just feels good to get it done and looking forward to growing my third arm or something.

 

[Wibble]

if you get the first vaccine but not the second (I missed the appointment)

is it safe to just get the first again?

I'm in a weird spot where it's easy to book a first and second jab again, but struggling to get an appointment for the second jab alone

I've tried calling like 5 times they just keep saying they'll get back to me but don't

What vaccine?

 

[Carolina Red]

 

[Wibble]

It’s mad to see the nonsense being posted about vaccines in the football forum when this gets discussed outside the current events echo chamber.

An argument that gets used a lot on there (and I’ve seen on social media elsewhere) is that it isn’t worth getting vaccinated “because we now know that vaccinated people can still transmit the virus”.

This blows my mind for two reasons: a) We always knew vaccinated people could transmit the virus because we always knew vaccines were less than 100% effective and b) Why can’t they understand that even a reduction in the rate of transmission is still beneficial?

It’s weird/fascinating to see legitimately stupid notions taking hold in a diverse range of people. Weird/fascinating/depressing.

Depressing and enraging in equal parts. It seems that stupidity has an Ro of about 150

 

[Brwned]

It’s mad to see the nonsense being posted about vaccines in the football forum when this gets discussed outside the current events echo chamber.

An argument that gets used a lot on there (and I’ve seen on social media elsewhere) is that it isn’t worth getting vaccinated “because we now know that vaccinated people can still transmit the virus”.

This blows my mind for two reasons: a) We always knew vaccinated people could transmit the virus because we always knew vaccines were less than 100% effective and b) Why can’t they understand that even a reduction in the rate of transmission is still beneficial?

It’s weird/fascinating to see legitimately stupid notions taking hold in a diverse range of people. Weird/fascinating/depressing.

My impression is lots of people only trust the world they can intuit. Probabilities are unintuitive and the virus is practically invisible, so this idea that you’re less likely to transmit this invisible thing just sounds like speculation. It becomes a binary thing. Either you can or you can’t transmit it. We know you can transmit it so keep all that other science talk to yourself.

 

[SoCross]

Finally got my second dose. Quite an eventful morning after one of my car tyres got punctured on the way there.

Weirdly it hurt way more when the nurse put it in this time. First time I genuinely didn’t notice it go in. Just feels good to get it done and looking forward to growing my third arm or something.

Should have used some lube mate.

Which vaccine was it? Same experience here, 2nd shot hurt like a mofo.

 

[Berbasbullet]

It’s mad to see the nonsense being posted about vaccines in the football forum when this gets discussed outside the current events echo chamber.

An argument that gets used a lot on there (and I’ve seen on social media elsewhere) is that it isn’t worth getting vaccinated “because we now know that vaccinated people can still transmit the virus”.

This blows my mind for two reasons: a) We always knew vaccinated people could transmit the virus because we always knew vaccines were less than 100% effective and b) Why can’t they understand that even a reduction in the rate of transmission is still beneficial?

It’s weird/fascinating to see legitimately stupid notions taking hold in a diverse range of people. Weird/fascinating/depressing.

Just had a similar conversation with a good friend who I’d argue is pretty switched on. Telling me that Pfizer is causing mutations or some rubbish.

I genuinely don’t know what to say to them when they somehow try and paint me who has had the vaccine as the idiot.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Interesting way to compare US vs UK vaccination. The US “first come first served” approach has been very effective at getting younger age groups vaccinated but left out a hell of a lot of the people who need it most. This could cause huge problems.

EDIT: Image on tweet below that one is easier to interpret

 

[Balljy]

Interesting way to compare US vs UK vaccination. The US “first come first served” approach has been very effective at getting younger age groups vaccinated but left out a hell of a lot of the people who need it most. This could cause huge problems.

EDIT: Image on tweet below that one is easier to interpret

I don't think the issue in the US is due to the way they rolled out the vaccine, but more they've now unfortunately run out of people who want to vaccinate. Things have really stagnated over there with empty vaccine centres being reported and the percentage increase now being pretty meaningless in terms of uptake.

The (as he calls it) "squished" view to take into account population sizes shows where it may end in terms of percentages if you assume those with a first jab will also get the second.

 

[jojojo]

Interesting way to compare US vs UK vaccination. The US “first come first served” approach has been very effective at getting younger age groups vaccinated but left out a hell of a lot of the people who need it most. This could cause huge problems.

EDIT: Image on tweet below that one is easier to interpret

Some good points being made in those threads, in particular about the difference between numbers like 90% and 95% when it comes to vaccination.

5% difference in take-up looks marginal until you realise that it doubles the numbers of unvaccinated people and hits the cases/hospitalisations accordingly. Of course when it comes to some US states and a comparison v the UK or Israel or even Canada (who started slow but really kicked on once they started) the differences are far more extreme than that.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I don't think the issue in the US is due to the way they rolled out the vaccine, but more they've now unfortunately run out of people who want to vaccinate. Things have really stagnated over there with empty vaccine centres being reported and the percentage increase now being pretty meaningless in terms of uptake.

The (as he calls it) "squished" view to take into account population sizes shows where it may end in terms of percentages if you assume those with a first jab will also get the second.

I think that differences in the roll-out strategy are a big factor here. In Europe we’ve used GPs to go through their lists of elderly/vulnerable patients and proactively reach out to them. Similar approach with vulnerable patients on hospital lists. The privatised system in the US doesn’t lend itself to this approach and they seem to have left much more of an onus on the individual to seek out the vaccine. Obviously I hope that changes now but it won’t be easy for them.

 

[Balljy]

I think that differences in the roll-out strategy are a big factor here. In Europe we’ve used GPs to go through their lists of elderly/vulnerable patients and proactively reach out to them. Similar approach with vulnerable patients on hospital lists. The privatised system in the US doesn’t lend itself to this approach and they seem to have left the onus on the patient to seek the vaccine, rather than the other way round.

Yeah, good point. That will definitely have an influence. I think vaccine hesitancy is low in the UK compared to the US too, but that would definitely help if the GP you trust has reached out to you.

 

[ArjenIsM3]

Had my second jab of Moderna two hours ago. So far my arm is just getting a bit stiff. Be interesting to see if I get a reaction. Most people I know seem to have felt crap for one or two days after the second jab but then those people have had Pfizer.

 

[jojojo]

There's a bizarre Twitter campaign running at the moment with people declaring they don't want a free vaccine because life-saving insulin and chemotherapy have to be paid for.

Weirdly, this isn't the basis of a campaign for free healthcare in the US. It's apparently a gotcha' aimed at the global conspiracy to kill/track/reprogram people with vaccines

 

[Dan_F]

Should have used some lube mate.

Which vaccine was it? Same experience here, 2nd shot hurt like a mofo.

Pfizer. Weirdly my arm didn’t ache for days after this time, and a few people I’ve spoken to had the same experience of the second jab hurting, but then not giving a dead arm.

 

[Carolina Red]

Interesting way to compare US vs UK vaccination. The US “first come first served” approach has been very effective at getting younger age groups vaccinated but left out a hell of a lot of the people who need it most. This could cause huge problems.

EDIT: Image on tweet below that one is easier to interpret

Look at the demographics of Trump supporters and the like. The people have chosen not to get it because they believe the conspiracies.

My wife’s own parents (in their 40s and smoked for nearly 20 years) are refusing to get vaccinated because of right wing conspiracies about it. She calls them every day begging them to get it and telling them about the patients she’s recently seen and they still won’t do it. It’s a snapshot, but this is widespread in the US right now.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Look at the demographics of Trump supporters and the like. The people have chosen not to get it because they believe the conspiracies.

Hasn’t Trump been talking up the vaccine recently? What’s the link between voting Republican and refusing a vaccine? I know that QAnon/conspiracy nutters would be difficult but assumed they’re a small minority (and found all over the world)

 

[berbatrick]

 

[Carolina Red]

Hasn’t Trump been talking up the vaccine recently? What’s the link between voting Republican and refusing a vaccine? I know that QAnon/conspiracy nutters would be difficult but assumed they’re a small minority (and found all over the world)

Gallup did a poll on this back in June.
https://fox59.com/news/coronavirus/...re-unlikely-to-change-their-minds-poll-finds/


A new poll finds that Americans who have chosen to skip the COVID-19 vaccine are unlikely to ever change their mind.

According to the poll published Tuesday by the analytics and advisory company Gallup, 78% say they are unlikely to reconsider their vaccination plans, including 51% who say they are “not likely at all” to change their mind and get vaccinated.

That leaves 1 in 5 vaccine-reluctant adults open to reconsidering, with 2% saying they are very likely and 19% saying they are somewhat likely to change their mind and get vaccinated — equivalent to 5% of all U.S. adults.


The reasons for not getting vaccinated vary among Americans. According to Gallup, some cite wanting to be sure the vaccine is safe (23%), while others believe they wouldn’t get seriously ill if they contracted the virus (20%).

Some expressed concerns about the timeline for developing the vaccine (16%) or mistrust of vaccines in general (16%).

Of the respondents, 10% said they already have immunity because they’ve had COVID-19, while 10% cite allergies or concern about allergies as the reason they do not plan to get vaccinated.

 

[Carolina Red]

To add…

my moms parents are in their late 70s and are refusing to get the vaccine because “well we are just concerned about the side effects”.

Their family doctor has asked them multiple times. We have asked them multiple times. They’re simply refusing to get it.

Well, the side effect if you guys get Covid is dying…
“Well if that happens, it’s just God’s will”

 

[11101]

Had my second jab of Moderna two hours ago. So far my arm is just getting a bit stiff. Be interesting to see if I get a reaction. Most people I know seem to have felt crap for one or two days after the second jab but then those people have had Pfizer.

Good luck! Anecdotally Moderna is the most brutal when it comes to side effects, usually they appear somewhere between 12 and 24 hours after. Just be grateful you've got arguably the best one


Hard to see how to push the last people to get vaccinated now. Here in Italy we have 77% first dose coverage but really struggling to get above that as new vaccination reservations have ground to a halt. Making the Green Pass compulsory has helped and is going to be extended from September but everybody left is pretty entrenched in their views.

 

[Red Panda]

I had the Astra Zeneca vaccine and had a bad reaction to it...I got something called chronic ITP where my immune system started to attack my blood platelets, which meant my blood stopped clotting properly. I guess I'm lucky as it didn't kill me but the blood clot thing got a few people.

 

[Solius]

I had the Astra Zeneca vaccine and had a bad reaction to it...I got something called chronic ITP where my immune system started to attack my blood platelets, which meant my blood stopped clotting properly. I guess I'm lucky as it didn't kill me but the blood clot thing got a few people.

Glad you're ok! How did you know you got that? Did you have symptoms?

 

[Champ]

Had my second jab yesterday, feel like absolute crap this morning but beginning to feel a bit better now.

The nurse who was at the vaccination clinic mentioned downloading an NHS app which was where you download the 'covid passport', does anyone know anything about this as I hvaent heard anything regarding this app?

 

[Solius]

Had my second jab yesterday, feel like absolute crap this morning but beginning to feel a bit better now.

The nurse who was at the vaccination clinic mentioned downloading an NHS app which was where you download the 'covid passport', does anyone know anything about this as I hvaent heard anything regarding this app?

Yeah it's called the NHS app.

 

[Red Panda]

Thanks Solius that's kind of you. It seems I'm on the mend now with some strong meds but I've had so many blood tests over the past months it's not funny. I got massive bruises with no apparent cause and felt completely zonked out all the time. The biggest bruise of many was about 12" round and was all black and purple. It looked like I'd been beaten up or run over.

 

[Bosws87]

Spoiler

 

[jojojo]

Had my second jab yesterday, feel like absolute crap this morning but beginning to feel a bit better now.

The nurse who was at the vaccination clinic mentioned downloading an NHS app which was where you download the 'covid passport', does anyone know anything about this as I hvaent heard anything regarding this app?

As @Solius wisely stated it is indeed the NHS App - which is not the same as the "NHS covid App".

The NHS app needs your details - like NHS number etc. You also need to do an identity check with it - driving licence/passport image upload, and a video of yourself saying a code number. If you pass the ID thing (it gets checked by a human so can take a few hours to approve) the app can get at your vaccination records and then you can "get your covid pass".

You'll see two versions of the pass, for events in England, one for travel. You can also print out a paper version from there.

 

[jojojo]

Thanks Solius that's kind of you. It seems I'm on the mend now with some strong meds but I've had so many blood tests over the past months it's not funny. I got massive bruises with no apparent cause and felt completely zonked out all the time. The biggest bruise of many was about 12" round and was all black and purple. It looked like I'd been beaten up or run over.

Sorry to hear about what happened, but good to hearthat you're on the mend. Can I ask, how long ago did you get the jab? Are you home now?

 

[Champ]

Yeah it's called the NHS app.

As @Solius wisely stated it is indeed the NHS App - which is not the same as the "NHS covid App".

The NHS app needs your details - like NHS number etc. You also need to do an identity check with it - driving licence/passport image upload, and a video of yourself saying a code number. If you pass the ID thing (it gets checked by a human so can take a few hours to approve) the app can get at your vaccination records and then you can "get your covid pass".

You'll see two versions of the pass, for events in England, one for travel. You can also print out a paper version from there.

Thanks both,

I found there to be loads when i searched NHS on google play store,

Including one called Covid Pass Verifier, so wasn't sure which one it was.

 

[Mihai]

Had my second jab yesterday, feel like absolute crap this morning but beginning to feel a bit better now.

The nurse who was at the vaccination clinic mentioned downloading an NHS app which was where you download the 'covid passport', does anyone know anything about this as I hvaent heard anything regarding this app?

Download the NHS app. Register with your details and your gp number. The domestic covid pass will appear 2 weeks after your second dose, the travel pass appears immediately after the second dose.

 

[Red Panda]

Sorry to hear about what happened, but good to hearthat you're on the mend. Can I ask, how long ago did you get the jab? Are you home now?

Thanks Jojojo that's good of you. I had the first jab in mid Feb. The ITP (immune thrombocytopenia purpura) started up about a month later. I looked so bad with the huge bruises, most people swore when they saw them. A journey of loads of blood tests and haematologist appointments started which are still going on now. Btw I went ahead with the second jab.
I'm now on a drug that stimulates my bone marrow to produce more platelets and also a big dose of steroids.

 

[Bratt]

Had my second jab early this morning, don’t feel a thing as of now. Didn’t feel a thing after the first dose either, so hoping it stays this way.

@Pogue Mahone or others who know, what’s your take on mixing vaccines?
My first dose was Pfizer, at june 24th - my second was moderna, given today.
FHI (norwegian health organisation) says it’s just as good as having two shots of one type of vaccine, but I’m curious to what others think.

 

[sullydnl]

Had the second Pfizer jab yesterday afternoon. Woke up feeling like I had an all-time awful hangover and I'd been beaten by a load of lads with sticks.

 

[christy87]

Had the second Pfizer jab yesterday afternoon. Woke up feeling like I had an all-time awful hangover and I'd been beaten by a load of lads with sticks.

That's exactly how I felt as well the day after the 2nd jab

 

[mav_9me]

Had my second jab early this morning, don’t feel a thing as of now. Didn’t feel a thing after the first dose either, so hoping it stays this way.

@Pogue Mahone or others who know, what’s your take on mixing vaccines?
My first dose was Pfizer, at june 24th - my second was moderna, given today.
FHI (norwegian health organisation) says it’s just as good as having two shots of one type of vaccine, but I’m curious to what others think.

As far as I know there is no data on that. In theory I dont see an issue.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Had my second jab early this morning, don’t feel a thing as of now. Didn’t feel a thing after the first dose either, so hoping it stays this way.

@Pogue Mahone or others who know, what’s your take on mixing vaccines?
My first dose was Pfizer, at june 24th - my second was moderna, given today.
FHI (norwegian health organisation) says it’s just as good as having two shots of one type of vaccine, but I’m curious to what others think.

The only data I’ve seen on mixing vacccines has shown, if anything, improved efficacy.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

FAO any Americans with conservative/right leaning vaccine sceptic friends. Sam Harris has become a bit of a darling of the right (even though he would hate to be called that) but this is a superb listen to convince us of the benefits of vaccination. So might be a useful tool in your arsenal to try and get them to see sense.