F1 2021 Season

From Max's perspective it absolutely is a very low speed crash.

His helmet is bolted into a HANS, he cannot turn and see what's going on at the rear of his car. It's completely impossible for him to know how close Lewis came to having a tyre squash him.
That's not the point is it, low speed in F1 is still quicker than the speed limit on the motorways. He caused an accident that could have cost someone their life.

The fact you've got a former F1 champion question whether he might have done it on purpose (be it "payback" or to stop someone scoring points), plus getting a grid penalty from the FIA says to me Max was completely in the wrong.
 
Ricciardo had it under control. Can't see how Max would have got past him even with a good stop. Lando wouldn't have finished 2nd though most likely.

Not so sure about that because Lando was just holding station and had previously said that Riccardo was too slow.
Anyway, fantastic result for McLaren.
 
For those that think Max is a bit aggressive and not seeing the bigger picture (pulling out of that move) you surely have to appreciate he’s only 23 going for his first title against one of the best drivers and teams of the modern generation. Hamilton has pulled out of moves but that’s his experience and probably why he’s hanging on in the championship.

Except Max and Red Bull raised hell about Lewis not backing out in Silverstone. Max knows he should've backed out at the first corner in Monza, it's incredibly tight, you have to go over the curbs unless you've won the corner beforehand.

It's not so funny to hear Horner's seething reaction at Silverstone about Max getting killed and Lewis should've backed out compared to Monza where it's now just a chirpy relaxed two drivers going for a championship and Lewis needed to leave space, and guess what, Lewis could've been killed without the Halo device and even with it in at slightly different angles or heights can have compression of the neck and spine which could put him in a wheel chair for life.
 
Now the dust has settled and the FIA have pronounced against Max, I am still left with an uncomfortable feeling about his general behaviour toward his rival and other drivers.
Yes he may have thought that Lewis was not badly injured.
And thought that because Lewis was trying to reverse his car from under the RB that it was ok to just walk away.
But he could not have known that Lewis was trying to reverse to get the RB off his head.

How much better would it have been for him to just stop and check that everything was ok.
It is in these type of situations that a persons true character comes out.
 
Now the dust has settled and the FIA have pronounced against Max, I am still left with an uncomfortable feeling about his general behaviour toward his rival and other drivers.
Yes he may have thought that Lewis was not badly injured.
And thought that because Lewis was trying to reverse his car from under the RB that it was ok to just walk away.
But he could not have known that Lewis was trying to reverse to get the RB off his head.

How much better would it have been for him to just stop and check that everything was ok.
It is in these type of situations that a persons true character comes out.
He walked away in anger and true sulk without any regard for his opponent I thought, wasn’t nice to see even if people are providing stills of him glancing over at Lewis, it seemed to me he walked away without a care, amplified by his radio message straight after the incident.

I say that without being a massive fan of either driver.
 
Any objective person would look at how his car bounced up off a sausage curb and figure out pretty easily that it obviously wasn't on purpose, and any suggestion it was says a lot more about the person suggesting it frankly. You can argue about risk vs reward and giving space and bailing out, but the move was a perfectly valid thing to try, which was also the universal opinion of the team principles asked about it including Toto.

The point is that the crash would not have felt like it endangered Lewis' life from Max's perspective, regardless of him bouncing up onto another car. He contributed (along with Lewis) to causing an accident much like Lewis contributed to putting Max's life in far more danger at Silverstone. And I'm not sure why the need for histrionics about 'causing accidents that endanger life'? So what? It's F1. Every tiny error and every risky manoeuvre by every driver falls into that bracket.
That's a ridiculous argument though. His car wheel hit Lewis on the head regardless of whether it felt dangerous to Max or not. That's like saying if I run over an old woman at 70mph I felt perfectly safe so it's fine.

Horner, Red Bull's principal, doesn't have any principles btw.
 
Honestly Wolff and Hamilton are just as bad as Horner and Max. Wolff saying the crash was a "tactical foul" thus deliberate is ridiculous. Disgusting from Mercedes.
 
Easy in hindsight but Max should have just cut the chicane and got on the slipstream
 
Easy in hindsight but Max should have just cut the chicane and got on the slipstream

both could have done something to avoid the contact. Either punish both or none.

This biggest car crash is right here.
 
Didn't want to post yesterday to let things cool down.

So now cool and calm:
Another Crashstappen divebomb masterclass. Kinda annoying how everyone is looking past it because they want someone else to win for once. I really wish there was a Nelson Pique around for this kid.
 
Leclerc was the first to really push back against Max's aggression and I think in fairness he's adapted his driving because of it. Should those two end up in future world championship battles they will collide a lot. Hamilton has met the aggression with his own, something he really did remove from his driving style but if that's the game you have to meet fire with fire.
 
Didn't want to post yesterday to let things cool down.

So now cool and calm:
Another Crashstappen divebomb masterclass. Kinda annoying how everyone is looking past it because they want someone else to win for once. I really wish there was a Nelson Pique around for this kid.

It's pointless to even discuss this guy anymore, i've never seen such blind ignorance and obvious stupidity with some of the posts i see online defending him, it's definitely the new generation of fans i see it from most and mirrors what you see with football twitter at times.

Verstappen knew exactly what he was doing yesterday and knew taking Lewis out would keep him at the front of the championship, dirty tactics and lucky to get away with a 3 place grid pen as punishment, i really wish Max was a likeable guy because he is a brilliant driver for the majority but if he doesn't get his way all hell breaks loose.
 
How many times did lewis and vettel collide when seb was at ferrari? Just saying....
 
Leclerc was the first to really push back against Max's aggression and I think in fairness he's adapted his driving because of it. Should those two end up in future world championship battles they will collide a lot. Hamilton has met the aggression with his own, something he really did remove from his driving style but if that's the game you have to meet fire with fire.
Lando, leclerc and others will be just as aggressive with max when they have cars to match the RB. Max is making a rod for his own back. His sense of entitlement needs to be calmed down by RB, but it won't.
 
Lando, leclerc and others will be just as aggressive with max when they have cars to match the RB. Max is making a rod for his own back. His sense of entitlement needs to be calmed down by RB, but it won't.

Well that's it, he's gained the reputation and the blue print to beat him on level ground is to just match his aggression.

He's genuinely so quick that he doesn't even need to be aggressive like he is, occasionally conceding is an option, win it back later or live to fight another day. I reckon they will come together again this season, major or minor, the championship may just come down to who comes out better off in these collisions and strangely enough I don't think Max even needs that battle but he's started the game again.
 
Lando, leclerc and others will be just as aggressive with max when they have cars to match the RB. Max is making a rod for his own back. His sense of entitlement needs to be calmed down by RB, but it won't.
Yesterday was the first day I really though Verstappen is not going to live up to his potential. Partly, this is related to RB management, Silverstone put a marker down on how aggressive driving is treated and yesterday Verstappen suffered. I personally thought it was a racing incident and would rather it was treated as such, even though Hamilton was penalized at Silverstone because I'd rather see strong competitive racing get back to normal. But RB created this monster with the over the top actions.

Anyway, when I finally watched the race, I can see Verstappen was going to crash out. I will give him the benefit of the doubt and say he didn't choose Hamilton to take out. But after that pit stop, the red mist descended, and a crash seemed inevitable. For all his potential, Verstappen mat be the one preventing him being a multiple WDC, not Hamilton, Leclerc etc. It's very possible he wins this year, but I have serious doubt now that he will. For all the folks whining about Hamilton on the radio, that was some teenage tantrum Verstappen threw out there. He needs stronger leadership and a firm hand right now and he isn't getting it.
 
both could have done something to avoid the contact. Either punish both or none.

This biggest car crash is right here.

I don’t think this is right unfortunately. As I’ve said a few times in this thread, my personal view is it’s a racing incident with no punishment. But this is near enough identical to what happened In Silverstone - which I also thought was a racing incident but the stewards decided to penalise Lewis. Once they set that precedent it was correct to penalise Max here.
 
Yesterday was the first day I really though Verstappen is not going to live up to his potential. Partly, this is related to RB management, Silverstone put a marker down on how aggressive driving is treated and yesterday Verstappen suffered. I personally thought it was a racing incident and would rather it was treated as such, even though Hamilton was penalized at Silverstone because I'd rather see strong competitive racing get back to normal. But RB created this monster with the over the top actions.

Anyway, when I finally watched the race, I can see Verstappen was going to crash out. I will give him the benefit of the doubt and say he didn't choose Hamilton to take out. But after that pit stop, the red mist descended, and a crash seemed inevitable. For all his potential, Verstappen mat be the one preventing him being a multiple WDC, not Hamilton, Leclerc etc. It's very possible he wins this year, but I have serious doubt now that he will. For all the folks whining about Hamilton on the radio, that was some teenage tantrum Verstappen threw out there. He needs stronger leadership and a firm hand right now and he isn't getting it.

I think though it is important to remember Max is relatively young. Hamilton was also quite rash as a young driver although he had much better management by McLaren. I do wonder if how RB enable him will stall his development in the longe run, but I do also expect that in time Max will naturally himself realise that that winning each battle in the race is not what wins a world championship.
 
Max is young and he will mature but he doesn't get a free pass on age or experience for me, he's competed in 133 races at the top level since 2015.
 
Max is young and he will mature but he doesn't get a free pass on age or experience for me, he's competed in 133 races at the top level since 2015.

I don’t think he deserves a free pass. I think the conversation about his development as a driver and how we think it’ll trend, VS whether he should continue to be punished as he makes mistakes as he learns (which he should) are two different things. I don’t think there’s any suggestion he should be treated differently because he is younger.
 
i heard max doesn’t even thank the bus driver when he gets off at his stop.
 
I think though it is important to remember Max is relatively young. Hamilton was also quite rash as a young driver although he had much better management by McLaren. I do wonder if how RB enable him will stall his development in the longe run, but I do also expect that in time Max will naturally himself realise that that winning each battle in the race is not what wins a world championship.

At what point does he pass the "he still young" mark. He is 23. Russel and Leclerc are 23, Norris is 21. I actually believe (probably unpopular opinion) Verstappen was done a disservice by putting him into the F1 seat at such a young age. Fast enough yes very much so, mature enough? Depends on the team I guess who would mentor rather than pander. I guess though Schumacher and Senna were older when they won their first WDC, Hamilton was about same age, Vettel was about same age. Maybe in terms of experience, and not time in F1, he is approaching the point were he should be expected to start to win now?

Your last statement I agree, he will realize what it takes to win a WDC, but after 130+ races though he needs to sort his head out quick or he might be a 1 or 2 time winner rather than 5 or 6.
 
Vettel won his first WDC at RB around 23 I think. I actually can't remember too much as I stopped watching F1 for a year or so as I was relocating to the US, but I remember not liking him too much at the time at first for some reason. Does anyone remember how he was? Young and aggressive? And how did Horner manage him?
 
It's pointless to even discuss this guy anymore, i've never seen such blind ignorance and obvious stupidity with some of the posts i see online defending him, it's definitely the new generation of fans i see it from most and mirrors what you see with football twitter at times.

Verstappen knew exactly what he was doing yesterday and knew taking Lewis out would keep him at the front of the championship, dirty tactics and lucky to get away with a 3 place grid pen as punishment, i really wish Max was a likeable guy because he is a brilliant driver for the majority but if he doesn't get his way all hell breaks loose.
Honestly it's posts like this without any nuance or common sense to them that make it pointless to discuss anything. I get that there's mainly English people on here so Hamilton will get a lot of support and that's fine but some of these posts are so extreme it looks more like blind hatred
 
Could there still be a penalty for Verstappen?
 
He's got a penalty, do you mean the engine penalty that he'll probably take as well in Sochi?

i think he means more along the lines of a criminal charge for attempted murder. though verstappen might claim it was a crime of passion as it happened in italy.
 
Honestly it's posts like this without any nuance or common sense to them that make it pointless to discuss anything. I get that there's mainly English people on here so Hamilton will get a lot of support and that's fine but some of these posts are so extreme it looks more like blind hatred

"Blind Hatred" yet i said "i really wish Max was a likeable guy because he is a brilliant driver for the majority but if he doesn't get his way all hell breaks loose."

Also I am not English so if that's your argument then that's out the window too, i see you are from the Netherlands so i will just go with it's pointless to argue with you also as you'll just defend Max regardless

Bye.
 
Honestly Wolff and Hamilton are just as bad as Horner and Max. Wolff saying the crash was a "tactical foul" thus deliberate is ridiculous. Disgusting from Mercedes.
Let's face it, Max lost his head after the poor pit stop and saw red. Decided either he would bully his way through or cause a collision. Standard behaviour for Max.
 
I wonder if Alex Albon is in the simulator today going through the different lines of turn 1 at Monza.
 
"Blind Hatred" yet i said "i really wish Max was a likeable guy because he is a brilliant driver for the majority but if he doesn't get his way all hell breaks loose."

Also I am not English so if that's your argument then that's out the window too, i see you are from the Netherlands so i will just go with it's pointless to argue with you also as you'll just defend Max regardless

Bye.
Never said you were English (though you do have Old Trafford as your location), I said that the majority on here is so inevitably Hamilton will get a lot of support. And the rest of your post is extremely one sided and lacks any nuance or common sense. Just like you're now disregarding what I said just because I'm Dutch. I always try to be reasonable on here, contrary to you it seems.

Let's face it, Max lost his head after the poor pit stop and saw red. Decided either he would bully his way through or cause a collision. Standard behaviour for Max.

Based on what exactly? Honestly I can't believe so many here seem to believe Max would intentionally crash into Hamilton when it was still all to play for. Ridiculous really. This battle between Max and Hamilton, Wolff and Horner, is really getting out of hand. I had hoped Mercedes would have been more classy in their response to this incident than Red Bull were at Silverstone but they've responded the exact same way and poured more oil on the fire.
 
Based on what exactly? Honestly I can't believe so many here seem to believe Max would intentionally crash into Hamilton when it was still all to play for. Ridiculous really. This battle between Max and Hamilton, Wolff and Horner, is really getting out of hand. I had hoped Mercedes would have been more classy in their response to this incident than Red Bull were at Silverstone but they've responded the exact same way and poured more oil on the fire.
Or that Max has all these crashes all the time. I feel like people are mixing him up with his dad. Max doesn't have a lot of collisions at all (until his current thing with Hamilton, anyway) and has been very level-headed about his racing more generally.
 
Or that Max has all these crashes all the time. I feel like people are mixing him up with his dad. Max doesn't have a lot of collisions at all (until his current thing with Hamilton, anyway) and has been very level-headed about his racing more generally.
Well I'll admit that when he first joined F1 he was young and a bit reckless but he's definitely matured since then. I think it's more his personality that people on here don't like. He wears his heart on his sleeve and always says what he thinks, the polar opposite of Hamilton who seems to have had extensive media training. That's fine, each to their own, but it doesn't mean that one is a saint and the other is the devil
 
It was a stupid move. Like one of those on a video game where you go for a gap you know isn't there. It shows he is missing something mentally though because with Hamilton on cold tyres, if he had stayed behind he would have had a better run out of the chicane and got a great run up to a perfect overtaking spot at the next chicane. A Championship winning driver would know that.
 
Watch youtube channel driver61 breakdown on it, describes it really well. Because Lewis hit the apex on T1 there was enough room for Max to believe he had space and attempt to hang on around the outside. If Lewis was more aggressive and missed the apex Max would have had no doubt in having to cut the chicane.