Vaccinated Players

awop

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NBA has got it right. No vaccine no playing. I also have a question? Is it compulsory for spectators in the stadium to be fully vaccinated?
I think it's a state by state provision for the NBA.
The order, as clarified by the City and County of San Francisco on September 10, states that fans ages 12 and older are required to show proof of full vaccination to enter the venue for events with more than 1,000 attendees, regardless of any extenuating circumstances.
Andrew Wiggins magically got vaccinated when he finally understood that his little vendetta was going to cost him 15M$ :lol: The same restrictions apply to the whole New York area so Kyrie Irving is the other big name to still not be vaccinated and won't be able to play at home when the season starts.
 

njred

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Agreed, whilst we're at it why don't we just let drunk drivers do what they want. Free will and all. Let them be.
In the US:
Vaccine mandates for child care and schools vary by state. All require vaccines that protect against polio, diphtheria, tetanus, whooping cough, measles and rubella, according to the Immunization Action Coalition (IAC), a vaccine education and advocacy organization. Nearly all states require vaccines that protect against mumps, chickenpox, hepatitis B and pneumococcal disease.
So why on earth why wouldn’t this vaccine be included in every walk of life?It boggles the mind
 

the_cliff

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That'd be fair enough, if it was the case that taking the vaccine or not was something that impacted mainly on yourself. But that is not the case. You don't just run a greater risk of being infected, you also make yourself a much bigger direct risk of infecting others. And most crucially, if you don't reach a certain level of vaccination in the population as a whole, the benefits of the vaccine is drastically reduced for everyone. If you only reach 50-60%, the virus will continue to circulate and grow if unchecked, which means you still need to maintain restrictive measures to control it. Those affect everyone.

Fighting an epidemic is not something that you can meaningfully break down to the level of individual choice. It works collectively, or it doesn't work. And it's a complete illusion to think anyone can make choices for themselves in such a situation that affects only or primarily themselves. Personal choice is limited generally in the way that it does not extend to actions that are clearly harmful to others.
Thank you for the constructive reply instead of the usual Mr. Sarcasm you usually get on here. I was once like you, pro vaccine and all (again I am vaccinated) and would always have the same arguments with people I know that are anti-vaccine. The thing that has made me just pull out of this debate and not care is the fact that for every study you show to prove your point a study can be pulled out to prove the opposite. Literally for every news article you show there's another saying the complete opposite. I was actually one of the early vaccine takers, I took the vaccine in early January. When I took the vaccine I was told it's just a matter of time until the whole covid thing is over, I live in a country that have a high percentage of vaccinated population. In fact, estimates are more than 80% of our population is vaccinated yet recently, we've had the highest number of daily cases ever. (even when we had 0 vaccinations). You only need to look at what's happening in Israel currently to see that they've overestimated the effects and protection of the vaccine. I'm not here to debate I'm just saying that those who do have reservations about taking the vaccine also have points to add to the discussion and not being labelled idiots by all the 'Internet' scientist around.

Anyway to get to the point of the topic, we were all told that we'll need to take a booster soon, so I'm just waiting on that but I'm just tired of it all tbh, tired of the debates, tired of covid just wanna get back to fecking normal.
 

Solius

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Thank you for the constructive reply instead of the usual Mr. Sarcasm you usually get on here. I was once like you, pro vaccine and all (again I am vaccinated) and would always have the same arguments with people I know that are anti-vaccine. The thing that has made me just pull out of this debate and not care is the fact that for every study you show to prove your point a study can be pulled out to prove the opposite. Literally for every news article you show there's another saying the complete opposite. I was actually one of the early vaccine takers, I took the vaccine in early January. When I took the vaccine I was told it's just a matter of time until the whole covid thing is over, I live in a country that have a high percentage of vaccinated population. In fact, estimates are more than 80% of our population is vaccinated yet recently, we've had the highest number of daily cases ever. (even when we had 0 vaccinations). You only need to look at what's happening in Israel currently to see that they've overestimated the effects and protection of the vaccine. I'm not here to debate I'm just saying that those who do have reservations about taking the vaccine also have points to add to the discussion and not being labelled idiots by all the 'Internet' scientist around.

Anyway to get to the point of the topic, we were all told that we'll need to take a booster soon, so I'm just waiting on that but I'm just tired of it all tbh, tired of the debates, tired of covid just wanna get back to fecking normal.
What's the death rate compared to pre-vaccine?
 

calodo2003

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I think it's a state by state provision for the NBA.

Andrew Wiggins magically got vaccinated when he finally understood that his little vendetta was going to cost him 15M$ :lol: The same restrictions apply to the whole New York area so Kyrie Irving is the other big name to still not be vaccinated and won't be able to play at home when the season starts.
Yep, he forgot all about his religious exemption when he considered the cash he was slated to forfeit. Ultimately Kyrie will do the same, but I see him dragging his feet for a good bit of time.
 

calodo2003

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In the US:
Vaccine mandates for child care and schools vary by state. All require vaccines that protect against polio, diphtheria, tetanus, whooping cough, measles and rubella, according to the Immunization Action Coalition (IAC), a vaccine education and advocacy organization. Nearly all states require vaccines that protect against mumps, chickenpox, hepatitis B and pneumococcal disease.
So why on earth why wouldn’t this vaccine be included in every walk of life?It boggles the mind
We’re exceptional.
 

Walters_19_MuFc

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What I don't get is managers coming out and encouraging players to take it. When they're ready, they will have it. If not, it's totally their choice.
 

sparx99

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Something to think about for any footballers put off getting the jab by the reports of very rare cases of myocarditis following vaccination.
Josh Archibald was also tweeting all kinds or nonsense earlier this year. He seems to be a big trump fan, thinks COVID is a conspiracy etc. So kind of leopareatemyface thing for him.
 

sparx99

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What I don't get is managers coming out and encouraging players to take it. When they're ready, they will have it. If not, it's totally their choice.
I imagine they want to be able to select those players. Many leagues have banned athletes who aren’t vaccinated.
 

awop

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What I don't get is managers coming out and encouraging players to take it. When they're ready, they will have it. If not, it's totally their choice.
If a player isn't vaccinated, gets it then infect multiple players, it's not "totally their choice" anymore. You're putting your coworkers, teammates, staff not only in actual health danger but professional too. If they don't want to do it, then stay at home and don't be surprised if your weekly check goes missing.
That's why the idea that the PL will give bonuses to team that are fully vaccinated is a bit stupid. They should not be treated like childrens getting a bonus for behaving correctly.
 

Pogue Mahone

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What I don't get is managers coming out and encouraging players to take it. When they're ready, they will have it. If not, it's totally their choice.
What I don’t get is managers who sit on the fence or refuse to say anything. They are extremely influential people, inside and (importantly) outside the club. So have a duty to take a definite position on this. Klopp showing up the other managers yesterday. Really disappointed that Ole hasn’t yet done the same.
 

Amar__

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What I don’t get is managers who sit on the fence or refuse to say anything. They are extremely influential people, inside and (importantly) outside the club. So have a duty to take a definite position on this. Klopp showing up the other managers yesterday. Really disappointed that Ole hasn’t yet done the same.
He is waiting for 80th minute for his decision per usual.
 

Still ill

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What I don’t get is managers who sit on the fence or refuse to say anything. They are extremely influential people, inside and (importantly) outside the club. So have a duty to take a definite position on this. Klopp showing up the other managers yesterday. Really disappointed that Ole hasn’t yet done the same.
100%. Whether they like it or not, they have influence. Southgate said he got more abuse over his pro vaccine bit than he has for anything else in his career. But he did it. Klopp just gave a common sense take on the whole thing, no tip toeing around people's feelings or whatever. It's a nonsense, the uptake levels in the Premier league. I wish more people would call it out.
 

Walters_19_MuFc

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If a player isn't vaccinated, gets it then infect multiple players, it's not "totally their choice" anymore. You're putting your coworkers, teammates, staff not only in actual health danger but professional too. If they don't want to do it, then stay at home and don't be surprised if your weekly check goes missing.
That's why the idea that the PL will give bonuses to team that are fully vaccinated is a bit stupid. They should not be treated like childrens getting a bonus for behaving correctly.
I've not really followed it closely as some have, so my question is, can an unvaccinated person be a threat to a vaccinated person? Correct me if I'm wrong, but i'm pretty sure I heard on the news a while a go that once you were vaccinated, you were more or less safe. If so, then an unvaccinated player can only be a threat to other unvaccinated players, right?
 

Walters_19_MuFc

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What I don’t get is managers who sit on the fence or refuse to say anything. They are extremely influential people, inside and (importantly) outside the club. So have a duty to take a definite position on this. Klopp showing up the other managers yesterday. Really disappointed that Ole hasn’t yet done the same.
I get that, but these are grown adults who also have their own stance on the vaccine. Therefore, regardless of what Klopp or other managers say, if players refuse to take the vaccine, then surely its their choice (not that I agree or disagree).

It obviously becomes a problem if/when they can't play without a vaccine, but before that becomes actuality - if it does, then I personally believe they should leave the players to get on with football.
 

sparx99

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They have? Which ones?
NBA and NHL have strict protocols for non-vaccinated players. Not sure of any football leagues as such. However, Kelechi Iheanacho couldn’t travel with Leicester due to his paperwork being wrong. I imagine it creates a big headache for clubs if non-vaccinated players need to travel for European games.
 

sparx99

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I've not really followed it closely as some have, so my question is, can an unvaccinated person be a threat to a vaccinated person? Correct me if I'm wrong, but i'm pretty sure I heard on the news a while a go that once you were vaccinated, you were more or less safe. If so, then an unvaccinated player can only be a threat to other unvaccinated players, right?
If enough people remain unvaccinated it increases the chances of a vaccine resistant variant being spread. Although, a senior doctor did suggest we’d reached enough people in the Uk and worldwide to make this less likely now.

The vaccines reduces serious illness AND transmission. It’s the reduction in transmission that can help suppress the virus and stop new variants. The reduction in severity of illness protects people and reduces strain on our healthcare services.
 

Walters_19_MuFc

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If enough people remain unvaccinated it increases the chances of a vaccine resistant variant being spread. Although, a senior doctor did suggest we’d reached enough people in the Uk and worldwide to make this less likely now.

The vaccines reduces serious illness AND transmission. It’s the reduction in transmission that can help suppress the virus and stop new variants. The reduction in severity of illness protects people and reduces strain on our healthcare services.
Thanks.
 

awop

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I've not really followed it closely as some have, so my question is, can an unvaccinated person be a threat to a vaccinated person? Correct me if I'm wrong, but i'm pretty sure I heard on the news a while a go that once you were vaccinated, you were more or less safe. If so, then an unvaccinated player can only be a threat to other unvaccinated players, right?
To my knowledge, getting Covid or the vaccine gives you the antibodies to resist a re-infection for a variable duration (months ?) but i don't think you become immune to it.
You just reduce the possibility and if you do get it, since your body "knows" what is attacking, it can defend against the virus much better.
 

alexthelion

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NBA has got it right. No vaccine no playing. I also have a question? Is it compulsory for spectators in the stadium to be fully vaccinated?
Very similar to NHL.

No jab, no crossing US/Canada border, miss 30+ games.
 

njred

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To my knowledge, getting Covid or the vaccine gives you the antibodies to resist a re-infection for a variable duration (months ?) but i don't think you become immune to it.
You just reduce the possibility and if you do get it, since your body "knows" what is attacking, it can defend against the virus much better.
Meaning that being vaccinated also helps people around you since it’s harder to get the disease. It should be mandatory because not being vaccinated is dangerous to everyone around you. It’s crazy knowing that people deliberately do not take it for political or personal freedom reasons when they are putting populations at risk.
 

justsomebloke

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I've not really followed it closely as some have, so my question is, can an unvaccinated person be a threat to a vaccinated person? Correct me if I'm wrong, but i'm pretty sure I heard on the news a while a go that once you were vaccinated, you were more or less safe. If so, then an unvaccinated player can only be a threat to other unvaccinated players, right?
And to every other unvaccinated person he has contact with. And it's not NO threat. You can still get infected despite being vaccinated, it's just much less likely, and also much less likely that you develop symptoms or pass it on if you are.
 

duffer

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Santos J

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Daily Mail blaming you lot...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/s...e-uptake-seen-problematic-Premier-League.html
"
Manchester United 'are among the top Premier League clubs struggling to convince players to get vaccinated', with rival teams fearing the poor uptake at the country's biggest club will fuel more jab hesitancy in football
Originally from the Times tbf so probably something in it

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...-of-their-players-to-get-vaccinated-g0lx7dzrf

Old Trafford insiders insist they are not among one or two “outliers” who have convinced only 20 per cent of their squad to have the jabs, but The Times understands that they are part of a significant group still some way off matching the likes of Liverpool and Leeds at close to 100 percent
 

justsomebloke

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Thank you for the constructive reply instead of the usual Mr. Sarcasm you usually get on here. I was once like you, pro vaccine and all (again I am vaccinated) and would always have the same arguments with people I know that are anti-vaccine. The thing that has made me just pull out of this debate and not care is the fact that for every study you show to prove your point a study can be pulled out to prove the opposite. Literally for every news article you show there's another saying the complete opposite. I was actually one of the early vaccine takers, I took the vaccine in early January. When I took the vaccine I was told it's just a matter of time until the whole covid thing is over, I live in a country that have a high percentage of vaccinated population. In fact, estimates are more than 80% of our population is vaccinated yet recently, we've had the highest number of daily cases ever. (even when we had 0 vaccinations). You only need to look at what's happening in Israel currently to see that they've overestimated the effects and protection of the vaccine. I'm not here to debate I'm just saying that those who do have reservations about taking the vaccine also have points to add to the discussion and not being labelled idiots by all the 'Internet' scientist around.

Anyway to get to the point of the topic, we were all told that we'll need to take a booster soon, so I'm just waiting on that but I'm just tired of it all tbh, tired of the debates, tired of covid just wanna get back to fecking normal.
Bolded part: That's a description of what it's like to get into discussions with vaccine sceptics on the internet, not a description of the state of scientific knowledge. For the latter, there is a broad and overwhelming consensus that vaccines should be taken, with due regard paid to certain precautions and specific issues for specific groups of people (allergic reactions and so on) - of which health authorities are aware, and act upon. Within that broad consensus, there are legitimate nuances of opinion and questions that cannot be answered yet with finality, because that is only possible with time and more empirical data than we currently have. But you will not find any competent body of creditable scientific standing who advise against taking the vaccine.

Which means that unless you're looking in the wrong places, the answers are clear and unambiguous. Which brings me back to the increasingly indispensable golden rule: Don't get your information about reality from social media.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Daily Mail blaming you lot...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/s...e-uptake-seen-problematic-Premier-League.html
"
Manchester United 'are among the top Premier League clubs struggling to convince players to get vaccinated', with rival teams fearing the poor uptake at the country's biggest club will fuel more jab hesitancy in football
Wouldn’t be a huge surprise. We’ve been a team where players seem to wield more power than the manager ever since Fergie retired.
 

Stack

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Im probably in a minority here but every time I hear a player is unvaccinated I lose all respect for them.
 

ChrisNelson

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It really is time to just throw the gauntlet down to players. No jab, no play.

At domestic and international level.

I don't care if it harms Manchester United, some things are more important.

I really cannot get my head around the mentality of people who are literally travelling around the country/ continent and actually physically bouncing off and brushing up against other humans, but don't want to get vaccinated.

It's a little scratch on the arm which might give you a bit of a dead arm and perhaps make you feel a bit sick for a few hours. Boo hoo! Have it a few days before a match and there's no issue.

For as long as the FA take the light approach these players aren't going to change their mind. I'm glad that at least players won't be able to go to the World Cup unless vaccinated and I hope they stand by it.
 

jojojo

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The most obvious place to start is by using the same national standards on players as are used on the rest of the population. That means mandatory quarantine following foreign travel and no access or quarantine only access to countries where that's standard for the unvaxxed.

Sure, it will hurt the teams, particularly English clubs (not called Liverpool) playing in Europe, and those with international players. I'm not sure on how well the vaccination campaigns on players have done in the other big European leagues. It would be interesting to see if the Spanish and Portuguese clubs (generally high uptake countries) get a boost from it though.

I just don't see why anyone would exclude footballers from national regulations at this stage. Bubbles and tests were all we had last year, but that's no longer true and vaccines are a major component in getting Europe back to normality.
 

the_cliff

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Bolded part: That's a description of what it's like to get into discussions with vaccine sceptics on the internet, not a description of the state of scientific knowledge. For the latter, there is a broad and overwhelming consensus that vaccines should be taken, with due regard paid to certain precautions and specific issues for specific groups of people (allergic reactions and so on) - of which health authorities are aware, and act upon. Within that broad consensus, there are legitimate nuances of opinion and questions that cannot be answered yet with finality, because that is only possible with time and more empirical data than we currently have. But you will not find any competent body of creditable scientific standing who advise against taking the vaccine.

Which means that unless you're looking in the wrong places, the answers are clear and unambiguous. Which brings me back to the increasingly indispensable golden rule: Don't get your information about reality from social media.
Agree completely that vaccines should be taken and they help with the antibodies and so on, I don't think even a sceptic can question that. My point about the studies was in regard to the rate of transmission, for every study that shows the rate of transmission slows with vaccinated compared to the unvaccinated the opposite can be found.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Agree completely that vaccines should be taken and they help with the antibodies and so on, I don't think even a sceptic can question that. My point about the studies was in regard to the rate of transmission, for every study that shows the rate of transmission slows with vaccinated compared to the unvaccinated the opposite can be found.
Completely untrue. Every single study ever done confirms that vaccines slow the rate of transmission. The only variation is regarding exactly how much. The opposite of this would be data showing vaccines increase transmission. No such data exists.

For some weird reason there’s a big school of thought online that unless vaccines are 100% effective at reducing transmission they become pointless. With every piece of data showing that some vaccinated people can catch and pass on the virus trumpeted as “proof” that there’s no point being vaccinated. I honestly don’t know so many people get sucked in by such obvious nonsense but here we are.