F1 2021 Season

mu4c_20le

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Lewis received a penalty for that? :lol:

What more do you want?
10 second penalty for almost kiling Max. He made that up in like four laps :lol:

Those were either racing incidents or were met with penalties - you can argue about the penalties sure but that's within their decision-making process and not something illegal. Referring to Silverstone, Baku, Hungary or whatever is just trying to justify what happened in Abu Dhabi while there is no way to justify how it went down.
I agree, they shouldn't be compared or used to justify separate incidents. I was just pointing out how its never mentioned because those decisions went the way of Hamilton.
 

hellhunter

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10 second penalty for almost kiling Max. He made that up in like four laps :lol:


I agree, they shouldn't be compared or used to justify separate incidents. I was just pointing out how its never mentioned because those decisions went the way of Hamilton.
Remind me of the penatly Max got for driving over Lewis' head?

And as @RobinLFC said it's beside the point, there were no rules invented or ignored for those penalties/incidents.
 

RepardReece

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10 second penalty for almost kiling Max. He made that up in like four laps :lol:


I agree, they shouldn't be compared or used to justify separate incidents. I was just pointing out how its never mentioned because those decisions went the way of Hamilton.
And as hellhunter said, Max would've killed Lewis had the Halo not been there.

Also, Max only got a 10sec penalty for brake checking. Come on man, very bias.
 

RobinLFC

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10 second penalty for almost kiling Max. He made that up in like four laps :lol:


I agree, they shouldn't be compared or used to justify separate incidents. I was just pointing out how its never mentioned because those decisions went the way of Hamilton.
It shouldn't be imo, they were decisions within the legal framework. I bet Lewis fans would find the defeat much easier to digest if he had lost to a penalty, because that's within the discretionary power of the stewards. You can argue about it, even disagree with it, but no rules were violated if that should've happened.

Now it is 100% clear that the rulebook was not followed and the race director just made something up he thought appropriate for the last lap of the title decider. And that's what makes it different, and, imo, farcical and hard to digest (and I'm not even a Lewis fan).
 

WeePat

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Lock this thread, everything that could've been said has been done 3 times over.
It'll just spill over to the 2022 thread. People aren't done talking about it and to be fair, it's only been a couple of days.
 

Fluctuation0161

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Not for us Dutch folk and many others judging by YouTube comments. He won the race on track. Dubious circumstances sure, but for once he had luck and he gets to enjoy it like our whole nation is. Lewis was lucky a couple times this season, let's not forget. This time it -finally - went Verstappen's way. In the UK his title might have an asterisk, but the rest of the world is mostly happy for Max.
It's nothing to do with luck. The result was manipulated in the final race, in a unprecedented way, to decide a championship.
 

hellhunter

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Not for us Dutch folk and many others judging by YouTube comments. He won the race on track. Dubious circumstances sure, but for once he had luck and he gets to enjoy it like our whole nation is. Lewis was lucky a couple times this season, let's not forget. This time it -finally - went Verstappen's way. In the UK his title might have an asterisk, but the rest of the world is mostly happy for Max.
If by rest of the world you mean the Netherlands yes, otherwise no.
 

Fluctuation0161

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Well it's better than a GP ending under SC. Imagine they would've ended last race under SC? Are we fans of racing or what?
:lol:

Real fans of racing would not want a manipulated end with 5 cars being moved out the way for P2, so P2 on fresh tyres can attack P1 on 40 lap old tyres.

This would apply in any motor racing from karting upwards it would be a manipulation, not racing.
 

Fluctuation0161

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Only LH fans would be happy with that. I wonder what you would've said if the roles were reversed.
You need to step back for a minute and look at this differently. Imagine it was 2 drivers and teams you had no feelings for, not LH or MV. As a racing fan would you want that to happen and be allowed to happen every season?
 

Adam-Utd

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And you'd be the same if it were the other way around tbh. Like Lewis fans would care :lol: you'd be like haha, Max got what he deserved.

And the FIA did already try to assist Lewis many times including the beginning of the race to make it more exciting. As expected, incidents like Silverstone are never mentioned by Lewis fans.
Sure you take the good luck, but you can still admit he was completely shafted. We've got max fans in here trying to defend it saying it was the right thing to do.

You can be happy that Max has won it and still be honest.

Silvestone was nowhere near the same situation either - if anything Max should have backed out knowing he was on the outside of a right handed high speed corner. Lewis still got penalised for it.
 

hobbers

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Obviously the likelihood of getting a fair judgement must have weighed in. I don't understand how you, or single journalists, can categorically rule out CAS involvement when CAS has been relied upon to settle disputes in the past. I understand that the teams have signed a waiver to settle things infront if ICA instead, however I don't see why that waiver itself couldn't be challenged infront of CAS. What else would the point of CAS be?

If anything this waiver has made F1, FIA and their race director even more shady to me. Why would you ask your business partners to waive the possibility to challenge your judgements if you weren't planning on using them with impunity?

F1 as a sport is dying. Maybe Max is the first winner of a new era. Net flix.
I'm sure the likelihood of a fair judgement from the FIA court played into it heavily. And Lewis will have probably agreed there's no point taking it to a biased court only to lose.

But CAS was always a red herring, it was never going to happen. CAS hasn't dealt with any major sporting decisions or quality of officiating, pretty much ever.

In its history all CAS deals with are appeals over ban lengths. They get drug cheats, financial dopers and crooked Fifa officials more lenient bans, that is literally all they do.


based on...... ?
Social media. Press coverage anywhere other than the UK.

Not saying everyone is happy with the dodgy safety car calls but the end result is certainly globally popular.
 

sewey89

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10 second penalty for almost kiling Max. He made that up in like four laps :lol:


I agree, they shouldn't be compared or used to justify separate incidents. I was just pointing out how its never mentioned because those decisions went the way of Hamilton.
Christ.
 

spiriticon

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Social media. Press coverage anywhere other than the UK.

Not saying everyone is happy with the dodgy safety car calls but the end result is certainly globally popular.
Actually no.. The FIA themselves have issued a statement saying the fan meltdown is tarnishing the image of the sport.
 

hobbers

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Actually no.. The FIA themselves have issued a statement saying the fan meltdown is tarnishing the image of the sport.
Which is a line you've just made up.

Irrelevant anyway, F1's biggest market is the UK, and like I already said, the reactions to the decision making in those last few laps has been scrutinised everywhere.

Doesn't change the fact the end result is globally more popular. We're not going to have to revisit the England out the Euros thread are we?
 

spiriticon

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Which is a line you've just made up.

Irrelevant anyway, F1's biggest market is the UK, and like I already said, the reactions to the decision making in those last few laps has been scrutinised everywhere.

Doesn't change the fact the end result is globally more popular. We're not going to have to revisit the England out the Euros thread are we?
Its says the 'misunderstanding and reactions of the ... and fans is tarnishing the image of the championship.'

It is not popular.

And btw #IStandwithLewisHamilton was top trending on Twitter the last few days. Twitter is not just a UK thing.
 

Buster15

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Which is a line you've just made up.

Irrelevant anyway, F1's biggest market is the UK, and like I already said, the reactions to the decision making in those last few laps has been scrutinised everywhere.

Doesn't change the fact the end result is globally more popular. We're not going to have to revisit the England out the Euros thread are we?
I was listening to an article about the finances of major sports. And that said that the biggest market for F1 was actually the US. And in fact, that market is so big and growing their it is highly likely that there will be 3 GPs there before the end of the decade. With Miami being the 2nd.
 

hobbers

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Its says the 'misunderstanding and reactions of the ... and fans is tarnishing the image of the championship.'

It is not popular.

And btw #IStandwithLewisHamilton was top trending on Twitter the last few days. Twitter is not just a UK thing.
Why don't you just copy it faithfully?

"generated significant misunderstanding and reactions from Formula 1 teams, drivers and fans, an argument that is currently tarnishing the image of the Championship" It doesn't say ALL fans, and that it's an argument. You need two sides for an argument.

Still not relevant to what I said. The final outcome is more popular. More people in [the world] wanted Max to win on Sunday. That shouldn't be in any way surprising.
 

spiriticon

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Why don't you just copy it faithfully?

"generated significant misunderstanding and reactions from Formula 1 teams, drivers and fans, an argument that is currently tarnishing the image of the Championship" It doesn't say ALL fans, and that it's an argument. You need two sides for an argument.

Still not relevant to what I said. The final outcome is more popular. More people in [the world] wanted Max to win on Sunday. That shouldn't be in any way surprising.
It doesn't say 'only Lewis fans' either. Make of it what you will, that statement is negative, regardless of what wierd narrative you're trying to drive.
 

hobbers

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It doesn't say 'only Lewis fans' either. Make of it what you will, that statement is negative, regardless of what wierd narrative you're trying to drive.
...... The decisions in those last laps were heavily scrutinised and controversial but the end result is globally popular. Is that driving a 'weird narrative' or just stating the bleeding obvious?

A very popular narrative by the Hammy fans in this thread seems to be that it was all a conspiracy and the FIA were plotting to steal the championship from Hamilton all along. Why would they do that if not because most of the world wanted a new champion and therefore wanted Max to win?
 

Mickeza

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...... The decisions in those last laps were heavily scrutinised and controversial but the end result is globally popular. Is that driving a 'weird narrative' or just stating the bleeding obvious?

A very popular narrative by the Hammy fans in this thread seems to be that it was all a conspiracy and the FIA were plotting to steal the championship from Hamilton all along
. Why would they do that if not because most of the world wanted a new champion and therefore wanted Max to win?
That isn’t true at all. The vast majority of this thread are unanimous in the view that screwing Hamilton was merely a byproduct of them breaking their own rules to create a last lap spectacle - they weren’t biased either way - they just wanted a show.
 

spiriticon

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...... The decisions in those last laps were heavily scrutinised and controversial but the end result is globally popular. Is that driving a 'weird narrative' or just stating the bleeding obvious?

A very popular narrative by the Hammy fans in this thread seems to be that it was all a conspiracy and the FIA were plotting to steal the championship from Hamilton all along. Why would they do that if not because most of the world wanted a new champion and therefore wanted Max to win?
I think we're past the point of caring who is the champion. I certainly am.
 

spiriticon

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Anyone seen this yet?

Lewis Hamilton is 'disillusioned' after Abu Dhabi, says Toto Wolff

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59686315
Oh I knew this would be a problem. I've merely tried to put myself in his shoes and I feel torn.

If he were younger, I would have said he'd get over it no problem. But after 7 titles, in the twilight of his career, to convince yourself at age 36 to risk life and limb week in, week out and for what?

He has all the money, all the sponsorships, a knighthood, everything. So much more to life for him to do as well.

Not saying he will definitely retire, but he will think long and hard about it.
 

slyadams

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Yes. That doesn't mean I like to see 2 laps of SC. Can't even imagine what it was like for the fans at the track. Wtf is your point mate.
You're incredible. In two posts you say Spa was a farce and that Max finally got some luck in Abu Dhabi. I would also take a look at this:

At the time I thought Max was lucky to get away with those incidents he did and I still think that.

Max would have understeered into Lewis 5 or 6 times this season if Lewis hadn't taken steps to avoid the collisions. Lewis understeers into Max ONCE where Max doesn't take responsibility to avoid and Lewis "nearly killed Max" and then in Monza literally would have killed Lewis if not for the Halo. In Saudi Max was actually found guilty of brake checking and he gets 10 seconds when a DQ would have been appropriate. But you'll keep going back to Silverstone and calling Max 'unlucky' this season.

Its an asinine, dishonest and ultimately pathetic line of reasoning.
 
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Kanu

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You're incredible. In two posts you say Spa was a farce and that Max finally got some luck in Abu Dhabi. I would also take a look at this:
At the time I thought Max was lucky to get away with those incidents he did and I still think that.

Max would have understeered into Lewis 5 or 6 times this season if Lewis hadn't taken steps to avoid the collisions. Lewis understeers into Max ONCE where Max doesn't take responsibility to avoid and Lewis "nearly killed Max" and then in Monza would literally would have killed Lewis if not for the Halo. In Saudi Max was actually found guilty of brake checking and he gets 10 seconds when a DQ would have been appropriate. But you'll keep going back to Silverstone.

Its an asinine, dishonest and ultimately patethic line of reasoning.
I never said Lewis nearly killed Max, so I'm going to ignore this.
 

WeePat

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You're incredible. In two posts you say Spa was a farce and that Max finally got some luck in Abu Dhabi. I would also take a look at this:
At the time I thought Max was lucky to get away with those incidents he did and I still think that.

Max would have understeered into Lewis 5 or 6 times this season if Lewis hadn't taken steps to avoid the collisions. Lewis understeers into Max ONCE where Max doesn't take responsibility to avoid and Lewis "nearly killed Max" and then in Monza would literally would have killed Lewis if not for the Halo. In Saudi Max was actually found guilty of brake checking and he gets 10 seconds when a DQ would have been appropriate. But you'll keep going back to Silverstone.

Its an asinine, dishonest and ultimately patethic line of reasoning.
Yield or die seems to be his motto. Pretty mental to be honest.
 

slyadams

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I never said Lewis nearly killed Max, so I'm going to ignore this.
Appologies, there are people saying that and I didn't check to make sure I was misattributing it. However, chosing to ignore the entire post because of this feels like a pretty cheap get out. My post attempts to highlight the dishonestly of your "Max was unlucky this season" by pointing out the variety of ways in which Max has been very fortunate. If you don't want to address it, that's fine.
 

Kanu

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Appologies, there are people saying that and I didn't check to make sure I was misattributing it. However, chosing to ignore the entire post because of this feels like a pretty cheap get out. My post attempts to highlight the dishonestly of your "Max was unlucky this season" by pointing out the variety of ways in which Max has been very fortunate. If you don't want to address it, that's fine.
I'm not going to dissect the entire season right now, but even in the last race Lewis got lucky cutting like 400m and not having to give position back. Martin Brundle said surely he has to give it back, but Lewis was allowed to keep going. Everytime something similar happened with Max this season, he had to give position back.

Bottom line: FIA is inconsistent, but Max is not an undeserved WDC. 10 wins, 10 poles, led more laps than every other driver combined. Was 1st or 2nd every race, not counting Hungary and DNF's. People act like Max fans can't be proud or happy to win like this, but those people have no idea what Max has done for F1 in the Netherlands.
 

P-Ro

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Oh I knew this would be a problem. I've merely tried to put myself in his shoes and I feel torn.

If he were younger, I would have said he'd get over it no problem. But after 7 titles, in the twilight of his career, to convince yourself at age 36 to risk life and limb week in, week out and for what?

He has all the money, all the sponsorships, a knighthood, everything. So much more to life for him to do as well.

Not saying he will definitely retire, but he will think long and hard about it.
I think he'll try and do when fergie did in 2012. One more year and go out in a blaze of glory.
 

slyadams

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I'm not going to dissect the entire season right now, but even in the last race Lewis got lucky cutting like 400m and not having to give position back. Martin Brundle said surely he has to give it back, but Lewis was allowed to keep going. Everytime something similar happened with Max this season, he had to give position back.

Bottom line: FIA is inconsistent, but Max is not an undeserved WDC. 10 wins, 10 poles, led more laps than every other driver combined. Was 1st or 2nd every race, not counting Hungary and DNF's. People act like Max fans can't be proud or happy to win like this, but those people have no idea what Max has done for F1 in the Netherlands.
OK, you want to make sweeping statements about how Max was unlucky all season, but not to actually look back at the season and justify your position. Got it. Not dishonest at all. Also just to note: in the video above Max was unpunished for Spain, Imola and Brazil, so your statement is 100% demonstrably false.

Please also quote the message where I said Max was undeserving. I never said that, so by your behavioural standards I could have just ignored your entire post.