Given the amount of rubs of the green they get in matches it would indeed be stupid to write off their top 4 chances
How much trouble are Liverpool in?
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
- Start date
Top four is doable still but we look miles off the pace right now. We never have any kind of control and everyone looks knackered.
The single biggest issue is VVD.
He was a colossus for the last few years and bailed them out on numerous occasions.
He is now bordering on liability status.
So much of their stability rests on him (remember the season he was out injured)
Seems very unlikely he’ll recover pre injury form.
I’d say they are quite a long way up diaorrhea alley without a paddle.
He was a colossus for the last few years and bailed them out on numerous occasions.
He is now bordering on liability status.
So much of their stability rests on him (remember the season he was out injured)
Seems very unlikely he’ll recover pre injury form.
I’d say they are quite a long way up diaorrhea alley without a paddle.
Big trouble for Liverpool, squads aging and will fall off a cliff if they don't get replenished.
I wouldn’t argue that Liverpool are in trouble, but it’s definitely shaping up as a transition season. No major trophies for pool this season, but they have a management team which knows what’s it’s doing and can put together a squad strong enough next season to compete for major trophies. But this season…more pain lies ahead.
Need to get the military industrial complex to start mass producing inhalers
Judging from tonight's game, which is the only one I've seen of them this season, they're not in BIG trouble. Still look like a proper team, especially in the midfield, but the final third is letting them down. Either the final ball is sloppy, and then they get countered, or they waste chances when they create them. On balance of play though, they should've won easily tonight, even if Darwin is a big drop-down in quality from Mane. One quality forward signing in January, and things can quickly look very different for them. If I cared, I probably wouldn't be too worried.
I think the problem is they’ve now got a squad of key players that are 30 or older (Alisson, VVD, Milner, Thiago, Henderson, Firmino, Salah) and the others (Ox, Keita) are injury prone and have flopped.
Big trouble for Liverpool, squads aging and will fall off a cliff if they don't get replenished.
I’ve genuinely no idea why they thought it was a good idea to spend the transfer budget on Nunez rather than split it over two or three others given the work they need to do. Not only that they allowed arguably their best player, Mane, to leave in the same window for a nominal fee.
Even if they splash out on Bellingham that will be their budget gone again and they’ll still have an old, tired squad. The Salah contract will also make this even more difficult moving forward.
Was surprised looking at it as it’s clear they’ve just ran what they’ve had into the ground. The more you look at it the more it starts to look like United post Sir Alex…
Perhaps the last bit is a bit premature as Klopp is still there but if he disappears they are going to be in an even bigger mess.
VVD - 31
Matip - 31
Fabinho - 29
Thiago - 31
Henderson - 32
Milner - 36
Firmino - 31
Salah - 30
They have players on the wrong side of 30, those positions will take significant investment to the sums of £400m+ and they're competing against financially much better teams.
I don't see it being easy for them, those players will drop off massively.
Salah for example is at an age where any injury and he's out for a month or two, say he gets a hamstring injury, it's not like he's 23.
They have some decent players in there a big younger but some of them just lack character and I don't see them being big players.
Nunez being one, I don't think he will be a top player, a good one yeah. I think Diaz is a good player though and he's 25 but all their other options are "ok" but they won't make Liverpool title contenders.
Jones, Elliott, Gomes for example would not get a game at Spurs, United, Chelsea, City.
Even a squad like Newcastle now under the Saudi regime would not buy those players.
Just posted around similar thoughts 100% agree.
I posted around 3 years ago about their problems, when they were at the peaks of their powers and I said about them all aging at the same time was a massive issue, and they had to think about replenishing their team. Obviously they didn't really bother to and its costing them now.
Fergie knew when to let players go, plan refreshing the squad Klopp doesn't.
Why would they be in transition? What are they transitioning from and into what?
They’ve got the same manager and the same players. They’ve introduced a donkey and young championship level kid. There’s nothing to transition.
Though Liverpool have been a very good team in possession, and still are, it has been their sheer physicality and intensity of which their success has been built on. At this moment in time, their midfield look a little burnt out and they obviously miss Mane who was a big player for them. Because they aren’t over-powering and running teams off the park like they used to it’s causing them problems at the back, some of these players were able to take a few liberties in the past but are being exposed now.
It’s going to be a tough season for them, fortunately for us. I can see a burnt out team with injuries following being a running them for them this year. The situation may improve next season with a few players feeling a little more refreshed, but they also need to get a number of quality replacements in midfield which is going to be difficult for them. They are not screwed but they do need to get it right in the transfer market to rejuvenate the team, but equally I can see Klopp walking if he doesn’t have the fire for the fight anymore.
It’s going to be a tough season for them, fortunately for us. I can see a burnt out team with injuries following being a running them for them this year. The situation may improve next season with a few players feeling a little more refreshed, but they also need to get a number of quality replacements in midfield which is going to be difficult for them. They are not screwed but they do need to get it right in the transfer market to rejuvenate the team, but equally I can see Klopp walking if he doesn’t have the fire for the fight anymore.
They are just so old. Team needs a serious rebuild, and Klopp just doesn't look like the man to do it, he looks ill.
I think one thing for Klopp is, he never seems to do well under pressure.
When he was at Dortmund he literally left, and said well... I've done what I can do, now someone else should manage Dortmund. They deserve better or something along those lines.
Klopp is great coming into a team and having little pressure, like at Liverpool the aim wasn't to win the league, and people were elated obviously when he was challenging, and then won the CL then won the EPL. Nobody expected it, and he did brilliantly.
Now scrutiny is on him, I don't think he will cope honestly.
I actually predicted Liverpool wouldnt do well this year, check my post history if you can. The team is full of veterans and the young players are not as good as the young players at other clubs. Harvey Elliott and Fabio Carvalho are not elite level young players like Saka or Foden. Infact they are not even upper tier young players. I actually think both are very generic and neither would command a big transfer fee (would anyone really bother to offer more than 30m for each)
The dodgy form of VDD, TAA, Roberton and Salah dropping off big time, Keita being isolated and frozen out. Its a cluster F and people keep thinking that Liverpool will 'snap back' and play at the elite levels of the past season, but thats just wishful thinking from Liverpool fans.
Fact is Liverpool need to clear much of the deck and rebuild. Henderson, Milner, Keita, Chamberlain should all be shown the door at a minimum. You get the feeling Firmino, Robertson, Fabinho could end up next in the firing line. Thats not even including the Awkard conversation that need to happen about TAA & VVD whose performances have been rubbish
Klopp is in shock, he thought he was still in the cycle but he must now realise the cycle is over and the squad needs wholesale changes. He is back to where he was when he first became their manager. He is partly to blame too. He wasnt ruthless and didn't refresh the squad and allowed the age bomb to keep ticking.
The dodgy form of VDD, TAA, Roberton and Salah dropping off big time, Keita being isolated and frozen out. Its a cluster F and people keep thinking that Liverpool will 'snap back' and play at the elite levels of the past season, but thats just wishful thinking from Liverpool fans.
Fact is Liverpool need to clear much of the deck and rebuild. Henderson, Milner, Keita, Chamberlain should all be shown the door at a minimum. You get the feeling Firmino, Robertson, Fabinho could end up next in the firing line. Thats not even including the Awkard conversation that need to happen about TAA & VVD whose performances have been rubbish
Klopp is in shock, he thought he was still in the cycle but he must now realise the cycle is over and the squad needs wholesale changes. He is back to where he was when he first became their manager. He is partly to blame too. He wasnt ruthless and didn't refresh the squad and allowed the age bomb to keep ticking.
Said it before, will say it again. As soon as he got eye surgery and lost the specs, he’s been in trouble.
It’ll be like the day Pep wears a toupee, the fire will die a little inside him.
It’ll be like the day Pep wears a toupee, the fire will die a little inside him.
The formula just doesn't work any more. When they were good (and they were) they had a defence that was completed by an excellent VVD, a midfield that had the job of harrying and winning the ball, but could leave the creativity to a very quick front three who could break and swap and score…augmented by two crossing full backs. But now VVD isn't excellent any more, the midfield has lost its bite (possible because Klopp tried to make them more creative to compensate for…) the front line has lost pace and quality and understanding, and the full-backs - especially 'trent' - have forgotten about defensive positioning and think they are creatives. It's that midfield three that is the real problem, though….
The ‘formula’ only worked as 11 players were perfect for what Klopp asked them to do.
Their midfield has aged. Their forward line has been switched out. Their players have got older.
Trent isn’t being covered by a perfect midfield. VVD isn’t bailing out whoever he plays alongside. Robertson is often stick or twist on attack vs defence depending on who’s playing on the left. Salah doesn’t have Mane to cover the few games that he’s not world class. Alison is more exposed because of absolutely everything.
I don’t think anyone can criticise Klopp. Only City can spend with impunity. Liverpool only challenged as they got almost all of their signings right, they were all of the right age, they were exceptional for 3 years, beat a monsterous City side to a title, won a CL. Plenty of cups. That’s a great 7 year stint.
Nothing has truly gone wrong. City and their money just make it really hard, in an already hard league.
If we were to play a Cup Final tomorrow, and could veto opponents, the first would be City. The second would still be Liverpool. They’re not consistent right now but they still have a single great game in them.
Well, not beating Leeds at home means something is going very wrong. Some of their players have gone way down in form this year. Sure, they can't spend as much as City, but they did sign Darwin Nunez and that signing appears to be a gigantic failure thus far. So something is going wrong for sure. I am loving it.
Biggest issue is they fecked up reinforcing the midfield the last few years with more workhorses, and then spunked 75m on Nunez who is extremely mediocre.
So they are relying on aging legs to keep up high intensity while proving chances to a shoddy striker that replaced Mane
So they are relying on aging legs to keep up high intensity while proving chances to a shoddy striker that replaced Mane
Oh I’m celebrating the fact that everything is going wrong. But that’s kind of my point
You could have parachuted Nunez into the team slowly a few seasons back as a better Origi. In a year or two, maybe you can sell Mane. But they simply don’t have the cash to do that.
They need CL football or else they will be in real trouble. Like many said their squad is ageing and look tired. However, I still wouldn't write them off. All they need is 5 to 6 run of good games and they will be in top 4. Their biggest concern should be Newcastle who may strengthen further in January and book the 4th spot.
It will be interesting to see whether Klopp stays or leaves if they miss out on CL football.
It will be interesting to see whether Klopp stays or leaves if they miss out on CL football.
Year on, year off, year on, year off. People still think it's a coincidence?
Wax on, wax off?
what are you suggesting it is?
they hit back-to-back 90+ point seasons in 18/19 and 19/20
They cost me about £190 from an accumulator yesterday, and I couldn’t be happier.
They won’t win the league but they will challenge for top 4, and likely go deep in the CL.Think rather than It being inevitable they’ll win matches consistently, as it had for the last few seasons, they’ll either be awful or outstanding. That lack of consistency rules them out of a title race.
They won’t win the league but they will challenge for top 4, and likely go deep in the CL.Think rather than It being inevitable they’ll win matches consistently, as it had for the last few seasons, they’ll either be awful or outstanding. That lack of consistency rules them out of a title race.
Fair enough I forgot that those were back to back without one in between, but none the less they are super suspicious to me. From the article that talked about their abnormal inhaler usage and accurately predicted their off year in 20/21 and many predicting they would have another off year again and here we are, with Liverpool getting regularly outrun by their opposition which was unheard of in those high point haul seasons.
Football in general is just far too heads in the sand about any doping going on. Particularly as endurance and constant pressing becomes more and more vital in the modern game. Anyway, there's other threads for that and I know it's a controversial topic so I'll leave it there.
Actually whilst 20/21 was an off year, it had little to do with running. This season it does. We’ve been outran by our opponents 11 times this season which is more than the previous three seasons combined.
You could see tonight Leeds were clearly covering more ground and pressuring us into mistakes.
As many posters have said they've an old squad and cannot compete financially.
It's worse, while there is
VVD - 31
Matip - 31
Fabinho - 29
Thiago - 31
Henderson - 32
Milner - 36
Firmino - 31
Salah - 30
there are too many players just under 30 or playing badly that need replacing, or already older
Adrian 35
Robertson 28
Keita 27
Ox 29
They're left with a few underwhelming forwards (Nunez, Diaz and Jota), average midfield (Elliott, Jones Carvalho) and a defence that isn't performaning / needs tearing up.
The cycle/time line and cost to replace that team with world class/performing players just isn't on Liverpools/Klopps side. It's not even an issue the owners can solve easily.
It's worse, while there is
VVD - 31
Matip - 31
Fabinho - 29
Thiago - 31
Henderson - 32
Milner - 36
Firmino - 31
Salah - 30
there are too many players just under 30 or playing badly that need replacing, or already older
Adrian 35
Robertson 28
Keita 27
Ox 29
They're left with a few underwhelming forwards (Nunez, Diaz and Jota), average midfield (Elliott, Jones Carvalho) and a defence that isn't performaning / needs tearing up.
The cycle/time line and cost to replace that team with world class/performing players just isn't on Liverpools/Klopps side. It's not even an issue the owners can solve easily.
This is their turn to go through a transition phase. They aren't in trouble, unless they do nothing to refresh their squad.
Their turn? 1 PL in 33/34 years
i'd say the one title was a blip and they're dropping back down to their level, are they 8/9th now?Hopefully their transition phase lasts 29 more years.Their turn? 1 PL in 33/34 years
More than you believe.
The funny thing is, they think signing Jude Bellingham will solve all their issues!
I'm not sure which is more funny, that they think they can afford him or that he'll solve issues.
Their insane luck has run out and they’re off the gear this season, so we just have to enjoy it before the next on-cycle.
I can’t make my mind up for sure, I know a lots are saying that their squad is ageing, but it’s not THAT old!
Mane is clearly a bigger loss than anyone appreciated it would be, and Salah looks a shadow of his former self, so they’ve essentially lost their 2 best players and as a result it’s put a lot of pressure on their defence as they were very good at pressuring from the front.
The change in system hasn’t worked and there’ll likely have to stick with it due to Darwin.
There’s quality in their squad and it’s not as bad as it seems, although they’re no where near title challengers and top 4 is a big risk. It’ll be interesting to see if they invest in Jan, 1-2 decent signings would make a huge difference.
Mane is clearly a bigger loss than anyone appreciated it would be, and Salah looks a shadow of his former self, so they’ve essentially lost their 2 best players and as a result it’s put a lot of pressure on their defence as they were very good at pressuring from the front.
The change in system hasn’t worked and there’ll likely have to stick with it due to Darwin.
There’s quality in their squad and it’s not as bad as it seems, although they’re no where near title challengers and top 4 is a big risk. It’ll be interesting to see if they invest in Jan, 1-2 decent signings would make a huge difference.
Klopp is a fantastic manager. He has shown that he can come into teams, help build them into top sides with his brand of rock n roll football and get them challenging for the top honours in the game.
If Liverpool are to continue to be a success under him though, he's going to have to do something he's never done before, and replace an aging squad, reinvigorating a team that has clearly lost what made them so good, and picking up and almost starting again, and that arguably is the hardest job for a manager and obviously Fergie was the master at it.
It's one thing to come in with fresh ideas, get your transfers right, and mould a team while it's all fresh and exciting. It's another thing to know when you need to ditch the players that have done so well in the past, get as equally good transfers, and just manage to keep everyone in the dressing room and around the squad hungry and fresh that might have heard the same voices the past 7 or 8 years, and actually to keep that hunger and drive yourself as a manager to actually want to start that cycle again, and just deal with the mental fatigue of that relentless chase of Pep and City.
If Liverpool are to continue to be a success under him though, he's going to have to do something he's never done before, and replace an aging squad, reinvigorating a team that has clearly lost what made them so good, and picking up and almost starting again, and that arguably is the hardest job for a manager and obviously Fergie was the master at it.
It's one thing to come in with fresh ideas, get your transfers right, and mould a team while it's all fresh and exciting. It's another thing to know when you need to ditch the players that have done so well in the past, get as equally good transfers, and just manage to keep everyone in the dressing room and around the squad hungry and fresh that might have heard the same voices the past 7 or 8 years, and actually to keep that hunger and drive yourself as a manager to actually want to start that cycle again, and just deal with the mental fatigue of that relentless chase of Pep and City.
It puts too much strain on the body allegedly, it was suggested that Klopp puts his teams on lots of caffeine supplements amongst other things. Although when I’ve seen it discussed it’s usually a two year on, one year off cycle that is suggested. It fits close’ish’ with pool but not tightly enough. That cycle does seem to fit better with city off the top of my head. City would be due an off year next season if that’s the case, an off year with them is still probably 80+ points though.