Is Rashford better than the likes of Saint Maximin?

[Stadjer]

Pointless statistics goals/assists and clean sheets win games, Marcus and ASM are about the same age and Marcus has outperformed him in both game-winning stats to this point, in fact, Rashford has scored so many more goals, that even if he never scores again there is a high probability ASM will still never reach his goal tally.

ASM playing with better finishers would increase his assists. He does seem to make the key passes for it.

ASM also requires extra attention from the opponent or even double marking which frees up space for other players to have an easier time to score or assist. However that wont show up in stats. Antony has bad stats but also will require extra attention from opponents.

If Newcastle improves over the years the comparison will become a bit more fair although ASM might never really become a fantastic goalscorer. He is a fantastic player though. Fun to watch too. If he played on the right i would prefer him over Antony.

 

[clarkydaz]

No, he moves like Robocop now, by choice. Just so happened to opt to be that way when he came back from said injury.

so you recognise he is crap then. well done

 

[Idxomer]

I actually have no idea what tangent you’ve taken this off on. He is not the same player he was and a fecked back has robbed him of his agility.

But he was fine for 6 months after coming back from his back injury.

The Brighton goal that's always in those highlights of Rashford was after his back injury and so is the hattrick against RBL.

 

[Fortitude]

so you recognise he is crap then. well done

Is your loop now complete?

You could just say you don’t like him no matter what and save yourself some typing.

 

[RedStarUnited]

ASM would be terrible for us. He's a player who fits Newcastle perfectly, because space is given for him to get in behind and to get one on one with a full back. Against two banks of 4, he'd be anonymous I think.

I do like him as a player, but I think he's one of those who fits a lower-mid table team perfectly.

But my god, yes, he's better than Rashford.

Isnt a player who can dribble ultimately more effective against a sitting defence? How exactly is Rashford going to be better at unlocking a super defensive team? Atleast ASM can dribble past people and open space.

 

[Theonas]

Neither have the finesse to be a top, top player. But both have enough qualities to be dangerous and useful players. Saint-Maximin is showing it much more in the present.

 

[TheGame]

There is also dribble stats and key pass stats that are worthy to look at for WF, if we want to look at full picture.

19/20

ASM - 4.7 dribble, 1.7 key pass
Rashford - 1.9 dribble, 1.1 key pass

20/21

ASM - 3.8 dribble, 1.8 key pass
Rashford - 2.2 dribble, 1.2 key pass

21/22

ASM - 4.3 dribble, 1.4 key pass
Rashford - 0.9 dribble, 0.4 key pass

Some huge difference in terms of overall performance on the pitch as in winger role.

What is the point in dribbling if there is no end product? Rashford has played up front and across the wings. His stats would be mixed. ASM has poor end product apart from the occasional goal.

 

[RedRonaldo]

What is the point in dribbling if there is no end product? Rashford has played up front and across the wings. His stats would be mixed. ASM has poor end product apart from the occasional goal.

I didn't follow all his games, but from what I 've seen in his game vs City, he has created all sort of problems at City back and was a constant threat and real headache. and it was indeed a very impressive performance. I never seen Rashford coming close to that level of performance for long time.

 

[clarkydaz]

Is your loop now complete?

You could just say you don’t like him no matter what and save yourself some typing.

give over. its everyone elses fault except his

 

[TheGame]

I didn't follow all his games, but from what I 've seen in his game vs City, he has created all sort of problems at City back and was a constant threat and real headache. and it was indeed a very impressive performance. I never seen Rashford coming close to that level of performance for long time.

He has the occasional exceptional performance here and there but it no where near consistant hence why no big club has gone in for him. Similar to Traore from Wolves.

 

[Boondog]

Had to turn that video off. Unrecognisable.

Yeah it's crazy. Just goes to show that players left to their own devices will see decay in their game.

No idea who ends up surviving ETH. Because it's gonna be carnage on that roster through next year as he upgrades it. But I would love to see the home grown kid make good. Pulling for him and this is his last season/opportunity to make that step.

 

[Someone]

Incredible that once he scored he suddenly can take on players is much more dangerous.

 

[IrishRedDevil]

Yeah it's crazy. Just goes to show that players left to their own devices will see decay in their game.

No idea who ends up surviving ETH. Because it's gonna be carnage on that roster through next year as he upgrades it. But I would love to see the home grown kid make good. Pulling for him and this is his last season/opportunity to make that step.

Feeling a bit emotional

 

[gaffs]

Let's see Rashford do it consistently.

 

[Rightnr]

He needs two season to convince me he's back. Very interesting to see what he does with genuine competition in Antony and Sancho.

 

[troylocker]

This thread

Both born in 1997 with Rashford 7 months younger.
Saint-Maximin has an occasional great game like he had on Sunday, where his "back" (Walker) literally played as a hybrid inverted winger and #8 leaving the entire left side of City's half for ASM to do what he is good at for large periods of the game. This only happens against the likes of City and Liverpool who is leaving great spaces behind for him to flourish in. We've seen Adama have similar impact on matches against them, and Zaha last weekend. Without space they pretty much dissappear. That's why they end up playing for midtable clubs rather than top clubs . ASM has no endproduct. He can dribble all he wants, but it usually ends up with a lost ball in the end.

ASM since he came to Newcastle:
In the PL: 0,15 goals/90 - 0,37 goals+assists/90
In all comps: 0,16 goals/90 - 0,39 goals+assists/90
ASM has never played for France

Rashford since ASM came to Newcastle:
In the PL: 0,42 goals/90 - 0,70 goals+assists/90
In all comps: 0,46 goals/90 - 0,74 goals+assists/90
He played 15 matches for England in this period (was captain in 1 game, where he score the only goal): 0,72 goals/90 - 0,86 goals+assists/90

Even when you compare ASM's stats with Rashford horrible season last season his numbers just looks meh:
ASM in the PL (21/22): 0,16 goals/90 - 0,32 goals+assists/90
Rashyford in the PL (21/22): 0,36 goals/90 - 0,44 goals+assists/90

I hope ETH gives Rashford time, minutes and confidence to get back to or get even better than he was in the 19/20 and first half of 20/21 seasons. Then this thread can be buried for good.

 

[lysglimt]

As much as I like ASM - he can't be mentioned as a top-top player until he improves his goalscoring stats. I don't care if he has played for a crap team for the last 2.5 years, to score 3-5 goals ever season when you on average play 30 games is horrible for a winger whose defensive contribution is limited. ASM turns 26 in march - and in his entire career he has scored 24 league goals in 165 matches.

If ASM can start producing about 10 goals a season at least, then we can start mentioning him as a really good player.

 

[jackal&hyde]

Yes. How good Rashford can be is hard to tell but with his back injury and whatever other problems there were he has been in super poor form for 18 months or so. This should be the season he gets back to his best.

 

[Ema_datsi]

Too bad the club are too stupid to move on from this guy. Form is temporary, class is permanent, and Rashford has shown himself deficient.

 

[MadDogg]

But he was fine for 6 months after coming back from his back injury.

Not really.

When he first came back in the latter part of 19/20 he certainly wasn't playing the way he was before. The good thing was that it actually looked like he'd spent his time working on his passing and playmaking, as he was playing with a level of creativity and vision that he'd never really shown before. The hope that we all had was that with time he'd get back to the explosive individual quality that he'd had before, while maintaining that creativity and become an even better player. Unfortunately neither happened.

In 20/21 he did manage to get a good amount of goals and assists, but he was obviously struggling and didn't look anything like the player he was before the back injury. There were a small handful of individual games here and there where he looked something like he did before, but otherwise he was poor and simply wasn't able to bring the threat that he had before. Being able to get goals and assists even when you are playing poor is a good quality to have (and there were a lot of people who used those stats to refuse to see he was playing poorly), but eventually you either need to kick back into form or they will dry up. Which is of course what happened in 21/22, where his general form got even worse than it was the previous season and he lost the end product as well.

Many of us were worried when Ole kept playing him while Rashford was obviously struggling. There are some injuries you can play through, but a back injury isn't worth the risk. We may never know exactly what happened there but he hasn't been the same since. Is the injury still physically impacting him? Is it mentally impacting him? Did he lose his passion and hunger for the sport while he was off? Is it all just a lack of confidence which was originally knocked from the injury, and he hasn't been able to regain it since?

 

[lex talionis]

Club medics should have ordered Rashford off the pitch once the severity of his back injury was known. He looks to have recovered now, but he was a shell of his former self after delaying the back surgery so that he could play in the Euros and then was rushed back far too soon.

 

[DiMaria]

I like ASM but Rashford is still better. This year now that he looks to be fit again he will remind people why.

 

[Boondog]

This thread

Both born in 1997 with Rashford 7 months younger.
Saint-Maximin has an occasional great game like he had on Sunday, where his "back" (Walker) literally played as a hybrid inverted winger and #8 leaving the entire left side of City's half for ASM to do what he is good at for large periods of the game. This only happens against the likes of City and Liverpool who is leaving great spaces behind for him to flourish in. We've seen Adama have similar impact on matches against them, and Zaha last weekend. Without space they pretty much dissappear. That's why they end up playing for midtable clubs rather than top clubs . ASM has no endproduct. He can dribble all he wants, but it usually ends up with a lost ball in the end.

ASM since he came to Newcastle:
In the PL: 0,15 goals/90 - 0,37 goals+assists/90
In all comps: 0,16 goals/90 - 0,39 goals+assists/90
ASM has never played for France

Rashford since ASM came to Newcastle:
In the PL: 0,42 goals/90 - 0,70 goals+assists/90
In all comps: 0,46 goals/90 - 0,74 goals+assists/90
He played 15 matches for England in this period (was captain in 1 game, where he score the only goal): 0,72 goals/90 - 0,86 goals+assists/90

Even when you compare ASM's stats with Rashford horrible season last season his numbers just looks meh:
ASM in the PL (21/22): 0,16 goals/90 - 0,32 goals+assists/90
Rashyford in the PL (21/22): 0,36 goals/90 - 0,44 goals+assists/90

I hope ETH gives Rashford time, minutes and confidence to get back to or get even better than he was in the 19/20 and first half of 20/21 seasons. Then this thread can be buried for good.

Nice post there Troy.

What's interesting as well is that there are a lot of players whose play stagnated over the past couple years. Generally when that happens the coaching of the players comes into question. And the fact we're already seeing things from some of those young players gives me a lot of hope. Sancho already is showing more aggression out there. So is Rash. Martial seems to be a EtH favorite already and looked great vs Liverpool. Dalot at least in the last game looked like a different player to the dude who's been out there shambling around. And so on.

I find myself wondering if maybe we'll see Maguire turn it around once that ego of his is fully deflated. A hungry Maguire might help us down the line assuming he can be brought back into the fold.

Heavy on optimism right now I realize but I figure the beginning of the season is the best time for that.

 

[shamans]

One game against a high line Liverpool. I would still take ASM over rashford

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Yes, Rashford is better, in my opinion. Highlights of Rashford at his best are a level above St Maxim. Unless that back injury resulted in permanent damage, Rashford will return to form. He’s been not great the last year and change, but it wasn’t all built on speed. Rashford’s problem is between his ears and if anyone can sort him out it’s ETH.

 

[noodlehair]

The main problem with this thread title is I actually really rate Saint Maximin.

Rashford seems to have lost a bit of pace. He's still very fast, but I dunno. There was one point last week where he tried to go round the outside of Arnold and Arnold just about got a challenge in. Two years ago Rashford would have just breezed past...probably then lashed the ball into the side netting or something, but still.

Although I still think he can/should be a very good player, but his type of game is reliant on working hard and constantly being on the move. He ways seems to revert back to standing still with the ball.

 

[Gasolin]

I think ASM is a poorer version of Rashford. Especially if we look at the whole career. One thing I regret with Rashford is that he seems to have lost his sense of goals. When he first started under LVG, it was really his ability to be well positioned to score goals and strike the ball cleanly that was amazing, like against Arsenal and the 3-2 win. That's the first impression of Rashford. But with the time, he has forced a bit too much the shot and sometimes seems to be lacking lucidity.

Hopefully, he can go back to his goal scoring ability. When in confidence, he is unstoppable on the ball but his close control doesn't seem to be the best except when he is in confidence. Let's hope ETH can now build his confidence up.

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

You know marcus is mere useful type of player when comparison with another mere useful player like ASM takes 13 pages of discussion.

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

I think ASM is a poorer version of Rashford. Especially if we look at the whole career. One thing I regret with Rashford is that he seems to have lost his sense of goals. When he first started under LVG, it was really his ability to be well positioned to score goals and strike the ball cleanly that was amazing, like against Arsenal and the 3-2 win. That's the first impression of Rashford. But with the time, he has forced a bit too much the shot and sometimes seems to be lacking lucidity.

Hopefully, he can go back to his goal scoring ability. When in confidence, he is unstoppable on the ball but his close control doesn't seem to be the best except when he is in confidence. Let's hope ETH can now build his confidence up.

Sometimes a lot of then when they breakthrough they are very unknown, oppo players doesn't really know how to handle them. As they get more and more recognized the managers and scouts finds weaknesses and able to nullify their threat. Top top players who have alot in their arsenal find ways to escape that and stay a threat throughout their careers. Players like marcus who almost always run toward defenders into blind alleys then cut-in shoot going to become easy to handle.
His "drubbling" is to hit the ball 10 yards ahead and hoping to out run the fullback eventually going to be handled well. I think thats the actual problem.
Having laid back attitude with a million pound per month with penchant for alot of other off field activities made it worse. We hyped up alot of this players tbf. Sad really.

 

[Gasolin]

Sometimes a lot of then when they breakthrough they are very unknown, oppo players doesn't really know how to handle them. As they get more and more recognized the managers and scouts finds weaknesses and able to nullify their threat. Top top players who have alot in their arsenal find ways to escape that and stay a threat throughout their careers. Players like marcus who almost always run toward defenders into blind alleys then cut-in shoot going to become easy to handle.
His "drubbling" is to hit the ball 10 yards ahead and hoping to out run the fullback eventually going to be handled well. I think thats the actual problem.
Having laid back attitude with a million pound per month with penchant for alot of other off field activities made it worse. We hyped up alot of this players tbf. Sad really.

Marcus Rashford is not a hype, sure he has to improve but he was not a hype. I do think something has slowed down his progress but it's not as caricatural as you make it sound. When in confidence, his close control is amazing and we have seen it time to time so it's a matter of finding back his confidence first, and develop a more intelligent approach to the game after. But if the other players around him were better, Rashford would be scoring left and right because he has the Ronaldo feel in him.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Yes!

 

[Fully Fledged]

The state of this place.

 

[cyberman]

You always wonder about the intentions of the posters who start these threads and then Pocco confirmed it today

I can see through his image, I've heard enough about him to know he's a bit of a c*ck. People are trying to paint last 18 months as poor form, conveniently forgetting the shameless PR/Social Media which made him look a twat, trying to fight fans, not looking arsed untill he's ready for a contract renewal, flirting with PSG and Barca....I don't think I'll ever like him.

 

[Remember the geese]

You always wonder about the intentions of the posters who start these threads and then Pocco confirmed it today

Wow that's a frightening post

 

[M Bison]

You always wonder about the intentions of the posters who start these threads and then Pocco confirmed it today

Disgraceful post, what an utter moron.

 

[DatIrishFella]

You always wonder about the intentions of the posters who start these threads and then Pocco confirmed it today

Wow. @pocco seems like you're a bit of c*ck

 

[Fridge chutney]

You always wonder about the intentions of the posters who start these threads and then Pocco confirmed it today

Yep, clear as day sadly.

 

[pocco]

Wow that's a frightening post

Disgraceful post, what an utter moron.

Wow. @pocco seems like you're a bit of c*ck

Yep, clear as day sadly.

Scores a goal and that means I'm wrong? Everything I said about him was true and was agreed upon by many last year. Just because I'm not a kneejerk clown, doesn't make it wrong.

 

[charlenefan]

Does Saint Maximin even get a game for Newcastle anymore?

 

[JJ12]

Scores a goal and that means I'm wrong? Everything I said about him was true and was agreed upon by many last year. Just because I'm not a kneejerk clown, doesn't make it wrong.

You’re just a clown. Nothing do with scoring goals.