Club Sale | It’s done!

[StiffTackle]

But its not like the Raine Group will publically announce who has made it to the final cut of potential bidders/buyers. So how do you suggest fans 'pressure' potential winner?

Besides they could intentionally leak some rumour to encourage a different outcome or nudge a higher price.

The process for Chelsea was that they encouraged bids by a certain deadline and then announced which of those bids made their final “preferred bids” list. This is how Chelsea fans were able to hound that other guy out of the running because of comments he had made.

Of course there is no guarantee they will do it this time, but the suggestions in the media are that they’ve set the deadline for mid February and plan to announce their preferred bidders then. It makes sense to publicly announce it in the hope you can get the finalists into a bidding war against each other.

But yes agreed, if there is someone who insists on privacy and massively outbids all the others before things even get started, fans wont be able to have any influence.

 

[sglowrider]

The process for Chelsea was that they encouraged bids by a certain deadline and then announced which of those bids made their final “preferred bids” list. This is how Chelsea fans were able to hound that other guy out of the running because of comments he had made.

Of course there is no guarantee they will do it this time, but the suggestions in the media are that they’ve set the deadline for mid February and plan to announce their preferred bidders then. It makes sense to publicly announce it in the hope you can get the finalists into a bidding war against each other.

But yes agreed, if there is someone who insists on privacy and massively outbids all the others before things even get started, fans wont be able to have any influence.

Glazers have a habit of being silent and stealthy for everything they do.

 

[Red in STL]

The only way for us to guarantee good ownership is for fan groups to identify what good ownership for Manchester United looks like and apply enough pressure publicly for any prospective bidders to have to commit to things they demand.

Sorry mate you're living in cloud cuckoo if you think fan groups will have any influence, especially on a non-state entity.

These are hard-nosed business men, they're not looking at the money they may make from the likes of us, they're targeting the millions upon millions of potential fans in Asia and to a lesser extent in Africa and the Americas

There are potentially more fans in a single Chinese or Indian city than there are in the whole of the UK, that's where their interests are

 

[BarstoolProphet]

Is this good news or bad new?
Jim isn't that rich. How do we know hes not a "profit first" owner?

This is quite remarkable. He owns ⅔ of a worldwide company with a £60bn revenue among other things. Estimation of his net worth varies from everything from 6bn to 20bn USD, depending on the source. Let's go with the figure of $15,5bn which usually is doing the round. That would put him 2nd behind Newcastle (who doesn't even have PIF as their official owners!) and more than most of other owners (including Boehly, Glazers, Kroenke) combined.

KSA's PIF being involved in Newcastle has really distorted the view among average football fans what being 'rich enough' really means. I mean we even have someone questioning being owned by Dubai ICD fund is enough, because they have an estimated net worth of a paltry $300bn+, which is roughly half of PIF. In that case being fully owned by Norway's NBIM fund is the only way to compete with Newcastle and make sure noone can catch us.

As for how SJR would run United, it's hard to tell. I don't think you can compare it to running Nice at all. He just turned 70 years old and being a lifelong United fan (despite having a Chelsea season ticket due to residing in London), maybe he wants to bring United back to being the state-of-the-art football club as his legacy move?

 

[StiffTackle]

Sorry mate you're living in cloud cuckoo if you think fan groups will have any influence, especially on a non-state entity.

These are hard-nosed business men, they're not looking at the money they may make from the likes of us, they're targeting the millions upon millions of potential fans in Asia and to a lesser extent in Africa and the Americas

There are potentially more fans in a single Chinese or Indian city than there are in the whole of the UK, that's where their interests are

Well after the Ricketts family were announced as one of the preferred idders they didnt take ownership of Chelsea. Their fans heavily protested the idea because of their past racist comments. They put pressure on the relevant parties and the Ricketts bid wasnt taken any further.

You might think the idea of fan influence on the outcome is cloud cuckoo land but that’s how it was reported at the time.

In my opinion, no new owner is going to want to spend £5bn+ and immediately start on the same poor footing as the Glazers. If one bidder is willing to publicly engage with fans others are likely to follow suit.

Given the club is going to cost 4bn+, the debt needs clearing and we need multi billion pound investments in the stadium I think its highly unlikely that a person/group that could afford to do any of that would be buying Manchester United to make money from fans. When the glazers used £200m of their own money to buy us - collecting £20m a year for almost 20 years was worth while. With the numbers we’re talking about now you’d barely get the job done even if every Chinese person on the planet gave you a fiver.

We’re being purchased for appearances, prestige and eventual growth of the premier league product and the football club as an asset. None of those things are made easier by inciting the fans.

 

[dal]

The Glazers are forced to sell us because they are cash strapped.

I really really really hope they are forced to sell at a cut price. If they didnt sell there would be hardly any money for transfers in the summer and the media storm would be nuts.

 

[Loon]

I imagine one of the reasons Jim Ratcliffe has announced his interest first is that hes hoping to get the fans onside and use that fan pressure to help sway the process in his favour. If it comes to a straight bidding war he knows he wont be able to compete with an oil state.

I'm not so sure if that's the tactic, or a feasible one. An oil state would be more than capable of putting on a charm offensive which would likely blow him away. Once they start submitting plans for a OT upgrade/replacement, all the lovely shiny players they will lavish on the club, etc.

Basically what the neighbours did.

 

[Suv666]

What an oddly specific reference Poor Fred

I meant Fred the Red by the way not our midfield maestro.

 

[georgipep]

Talksport sources

The pinnacle of truth

 

[redcucumber]

Sorry mate you're living in cloud cuckoo if you think fan groups will have any influence, especially on a non-state entity.

These are hard-nosed business men, they're not looking at the money they may make from the likes of us, they're targeting the millions upon millions of potential fans in Asia and to a lesser extent in Africa and the Americas

There are potentially more fans in a single Chinese or Indian city than there are in the whole of the UK, that's where their interests are

I don't agree with this. Don't teams make a similar amount from domestic TV deals as overseas deals? The difference isn't that much (could have changed more recently). Then when you factor in local fans are at the games, are able to influence media narratives through protests and visible discontent (and storm the ground in extreme circumstances - it was domestic fans which killed the Super League), have supporters groups which meet with executives etc., these are the lot the owners very much want onside. It can quickly become toxic if and when they turn.

 

[stw2022]

Five minutes after he claimed the Glazers told him the club wasn't for sale, they put the club up for sale. Looking beyond the 'wanting to believe this story is true' syndrome it's littered with red flags

Almost like that Comical Ali character from the Iraq war, claiming he's tried his best but has been told categorically the Glazers aren't selling as behind him Joel and Avram are up the ladder to pin up the giant 'For sale' sign.

Only doubt for me is his motivation for doing this. But I'm convinced he isn't actually serious about buying us

 

[Ciddy]

can you imagine the protests if they didn’t fully sell up. The new “joint” owners surely wouldn’t want that on their first day of ownership. Socials exploding with boycotts and bad mouthing. I just don’t see them not going for 100% sales now that it has been announced.

 

[Tarrou]

Five minutes after he claimed the Glazers told him the club wasn't for sale, they put the club up for sale. Looking beyond the 'wanting to believe this story is true' syndrome it's littered with red flags

this is basically meaningless

if they told him they were selling but had not yet announced they were selling, what do you think he should say when asked at a public event?

if he says no comment or similar it just fans the flames and makes it look like they're selling

if he says yes they are selling then he is announcing it for them, which is obviously bad

I'm not actually sure what else makes sense for him to say in that situation?

but certainly, you are reading way too much into a non-statement

 

[phelans shorts]

this is basically meaningless

if they told him they were selling but had not yet announced they were selling, what do you think he should say when asked at a public event?

if he says no comment or similar it just fans the flames and makes it look like they're selling

if he says yes they are selling then he is announcing it for them, which is obviously bad

I'm not actually sure what else makes sense for him to say in that situation?

but certainly, you are reading way too much into a non-statement

They got worked up into such a tizz that Glazers weren’t selling and that Ratcliffe wouldn’t even bid that now they’re just throwing shit at the wall to eventually say “see I was right!”

It’s pretty tiring to be honest

 

[Plant0x84]

The Premier League introduced an ‘owner’s charter’ and ‘owners test’ that requires ownership models to follow a set of rules: https://resources.premierleague.com...a4e95f2/PL_Handbook_2022-23_DIGITAL_13.12.pdf

Also, the Raine group negotiated ‘anti glazer clauses’ in the sale of Chelsea, so they will likely include similar with us while selecting the best potential ownership from a future investment and sustainability perspective.

Basically, with the premier league’s new rules on fit and proper ownership, the Raine group will have to select an owner who adheres to that. It won’t be just about the highest bidder, but that will obviously play a part.

Hopefully they include anti-Boehly clauses too!

 

[whitbyviking]

The narrative that INEOS and Ratcliffe are paupers and would ruin United is baffling

Gave me a chuckle there, agree fully. Some people on this thread are almost as whiny and entitled as the Scousers

 

[TheReligion]

Gave me a chuckle there, agree fully. Some people on this thread are almost as whiny and entitled as the Scousers

I’m 100% that there’s also a number of trolls who camp in the United forum to wind people up.

I’m not having they are that thick. Simply can’t be.

 

[Lyng]

Reading the NICE forums....INEOS sound like a dire prospect.
Dont understand why so many United fans are so keen on them. The whole "he is a fan" seems like cheap PR honestly.

 

[whitbyviking]

I’m 100% that there’s also a number of trolls who camp in the United forum to wind people up.

I’m not having they are that thick. Simply can’t be.

I agree, although I do think some are that thick.

What a lot of people screaming for sovereign wealth fund level backing are missing is that once the sale, debt and facilities are concluded as part of the deal if you have someone willing to put £20bn or £1bn in it is (in theory) basically the same due to FFP. You cannot pump enormous amounts of unearned wealth into the club and no sensible club is spending £1bn in less than 4 seasons I should think.

If someone such as Ratcliffe comes in (after buying the club, settling the debt, upgrading the facilities) and then provides the level of spending we've seen from the club during the Glazer tenure then that would be running the club properly, within his specific means, and most importantly about all they are allowed to do. Unless things change having Dubai and their "£300bn" available vs having a "normal" billionaire is largely irrelevant, other than some sort of obscene security blanket of unlimited money.

Key thing for me is having someone takeover who can minimise the purchase price and wrap up the debt plus the facilities into the overall package. This is what I would hope the figures of $6-8bn that were bandied around. $4bn for the club shares, $750m for the debt and then $1bn for the facilities. The some money for transfers, other costs etc.

 

[TheReligion]

I agree, although I do think some are that thick.

What a lot of people screaming for sovereign wealth fund level backing are missing is that once the sale, debt and facilities are concluded as part of the deal if you have someone willing to put £20bn or £1bn in it is (in theory) basically the same due to FFP. You cannot pump enormous amounts of unearned wealth into the club and no sensible club is spending £1bn in less than 4 seasons I should think.

If someone such as Ratcliffe comes in (after buying the club, settling the debt, upgrading the facilities) and then provides the level of spending we've seen from the club during the Glazer tenure then that would be running the club properly, within his specific means, and most importantly about all they are allowed to do. Unless things change having Dubai and their "£300bn" available vs having a "normal" billionaire is largely irrelevant, other than some sort of obscene security blanket of unlimited money.

Key thing for me is having someone takeover who can minimise the purchase price and wrap up the debt plus the facilities into the overall package. This is what I would hope the figures of $6-8bn that were bandied around. $4bn for the club shares, $750m for the debt and then $1bn for the facilities. The some money for transfers, other costs etc.

Good post. Totally agree.

 

[Newtonius]

Why would facfilities etc matter vis a vis owner wealth when it comes to FFP? It even says it in the regulations that money spent on infrastructure and facilities will not be included. IE stadium.

The reason United would be restricted by FFP is because of the loan debt and the vast amount of money still owed on current transfers, if all that is paid off any owner could put Boehly to shame.

 

[Member 101269]

This is quite remarkable. He owns ⅔ of a worldwide company with a £60bn revenue among other things. Estimation of his net worth varies from everything from 6bn to 20bn USD, depending on the source. Let's go with the figure of $15,5bn which usually is doing the round. That would put him 2nd behind Newcastle (who doesn't even have PIF as their official owners!) and more than most of other owners (including Boehly, Glazers, Kroenke) combined.

KSA's PIF being involved in Newcastle has really distorted the view among average football fans what being 'rich enough' really means. I mean we even have someone questioning being owned by Dubai ICD fund is enough, because they have an estimated net worth of a paltry $300bn+, which is roughly half of PIF. In that case being fully owned by Norway's NBIM fund is the only way to compete with Newcastle and make sure noone can catch us.

As for how SJR would run United, it's hard to tell. I don't think you can compare it to running Nice at all. He just turned 70 years old and being a lifelong United fan (despite having a Chelsea season ticket due to residing in London), maybe he wants to bring United back to being the state-of-the-art football club as his legacy move?

The timing of the INEOS announcement is interesting, they moved first and media are playing up his association with the Manchester area and United. I don't believe that has happened by accident. Yes, I am aware it's speculation. I'm more of the belief that the INEOS bid will not be as financially beneficial to the Glaziers so they're trying to drive the bid through fan support.

This is going to be interesting to watch

 

[cyberman]

The timing of the INEOS announcement is interesting, they moved first and media are playing up his association with the Manchester area and United. I don't believe that has happened by accident. Yes, I am aware it's speculation. I'm more of the belief that the INEOS bid will not be as financially beneficial to the Glaziers so they're trying to drive the bid through fan support.

This is going to be interesting to watch

If they’re relying on fan support they aren’t getting anywhere. I’m not even sure they have that support in the first place

 

[TheReligion]

If they’re relying on fan support they aren’t getting anywhere. I’m not even sure they have that support in the first place

Why don’t they have support?

 

[Green Arrow]

The timing of the INEOS announcement is interesting, they moved first and media are playing up his association with the Manchester area and United. I don't believe that has happened by accident. Yes, I am aware it's speculation. I'm more of the belief that the INEOS bid will not be as financially beneficial to the Glaziers so they're trying to drive the bid through fan support.

This is going to be interesting to watch

I personally don't think the Glazers care about fans, they won't take notice of what we want as next owner. You are right the INEOS bid might not be enough for them hence they want a bidding war and will sell to the highest bidder whether they are right for us or not.

 

[cyberman]

Why don’t they have support?

I think we’re being told he has support without there being any proof. Even in this thread there’s enough dissenting voices that makes that much clear

 

[Hughes35]

We need to be careful what we wish for here. Fans are so desperate to get rid of the Glazers they don't seem to care who buys us.

How would being owned by a company actually work? Who would make the business and football decisions? How much investment capital would they have available etc etc?

 

[TheReligion]

I think we’re being told he has support without there being any proof. Even in this thread there’s enough dissenting voices that makes that much clear

I mean I wouldn’t base what’s posted here as being reflective of the match going fanbase at all. As I mentioned I’m positive this sub forum is full of trolls as whilst I’m no massive pro Jim fan it’s quite obvious he has the finance to operate United comfortably and at a better level than the Glazers.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

I see this thread woke up. 24 hours ago I was thinking how dead it was becoming and then boom.

Reading the NICE forums....INEOS sound like a dire prospect.
Dont understand why so many United fans are so keen on them. The whole "he is a fan" seems like cheap PR honestly.

As I've said previously, although it is definitely a valid concern, I warn against comparing how they'd run Nice to how they'd run United

Nice is always going to be more of a long-term project in need of heavy investment, whereas United just need the key to their Glazer-imposed shackles to begin to compete with Europe's elite again

Ineos have also clearly had their eye on English clubs for years too, and that has always seemed like their main footballing focus. If they can only have one CL club, it'll be United and not Nice

I'd want assurances that Ten Hag will be backed, football people rather than Ineos people will be in charge of the football decisions, fans will be taken seriously and have a genuine voice and on-field success will be prioritised ahead of profits

 

[The Boy]

no sensible club is spending £1bn in less than 4 seasons I should think.

Chelsea: Hold my pint!

 

[Nori-]

Thank You Sir Ratcliffe for putting pressure on the Glazers in the last few years but there are better options now. (As far as we know)

As much as he says he loves the club, his family will always come first and I can't see him blowing billions of his children's inheritance on Man Utd.

On the other hand this would be a vanity project for most Middle East investors and a few billion on a stadium/transfers over the next decade wouldn't dent their fortune.

I'd still take Ratcliffe over a US buyer though. The only thing on their mind would be profits.

 

[Godfather]

Nice get absolutely blown out of the water by the likes of PSG when it comes to funding. That's a simple fact. INEOS are either not capable or simply not willing to invest heavily into that club. I fear they'd do the same here. There's zero evidence out there they'd handle United differently.

Not that I think they will actually be the ones buying us. They'll be outbid hopefully.

 

[Smores]

Hopefully he wins out over the scumbags. It seems like some of our fans will be disappointed if he does win though as we wouldn't be able to play football manager with cheat codes on basically.

 

[Spoony]

I suspect Ratcliffe'd do a better job at United than Nice. And didn't the Qatar do a shite job Malaga before turning PSG into a major club?

 

[sglowrider]

I suspect Ratcliffe'd do a better job at United than Nice. And didn't the Qatar do a shite job Malaga before turning PSG into a major club?

Past is prologue

 

[RkkMan]

Nice get absolutely blown out of the water by the likes of PSG when it comes to funding. That's a simple fact. INEOS are either not capable or simply not willing to invest heavily into that club. I fear they'd do the same here. There's zero evidence out there they'd handle United differently.

Not that I think they will actually be the ones buying us. They'll be outbid hopefully.

Nice don't generate revenues anywhere near Utd or other big shot clubs
Utd also don't need bottomless oil money. It needs competent owners with pockets deep enough to pay off the club's debt and allow it to be more self sustainable and owners who won't take billions out for selfish reasons. Utd makes more than enough money on its own without outside investment. It needs better financial management not City/PSG level financing which INEOS can do

 

[dinostar77]

Nice don't generate revenues anywhere near Utd or other big shot clubs
Utd also don't need bottomless oil money. It needs competent owners with pockets deep enough to pay off the club's debt and allow it to be more self sustainable and owners who won't take billions out for selfish reasons. Utd makes more than enough money on its own without outside investment. It needs better financial management not City/PSG level financing which INEOS can do

Agreed, we need the debt paid off and the stadium redeveloped. After that we should be like Real Madrid and be self sufficient. Just need to get the glazers out and not have new owners saddle the club with debt of a stadum rebuild.

 

[devilish]

I suspect Ratcliffe'd do a better job at United than Nice. And didn't the Qatar do a shite job Malaga before turning PSG into a major club?

Did they? PSG has yet to win the CL despite the millions spent on it. The local pool is unimportant in a league that is similar to the German league but with the difference that their Bayern is being pumped with petro dollars

 

[Judas]

I’d be gobsmacked if Ratcliffe ends up owning us, so I don’t really get the worrying.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Agreed, we need the debt paid off and the stadium redeveloped. After that we should be like Real Madrid and be self sufficient. Just need to get the glazers out and not have new owners saddle the club with debt of a stadum rebuild.

They need to find the money the Glazers want, then pay off the debt and the money for the stadium, training ground etc. The club can then sustain itself regarding transfers. It is the initial layout that is huge.