I mean having a striker who has any attributes beyond the ability to run about might have helped score a goal in the first half. Not doing anything glaringly wrong shouldn't be what's expected from our starting striker. And having our first choice striker be someone who was playing in Turkey earlier this season isn't good enough
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He isn't the reason we lost 7-0 today, but he and our manager who played him out of position and ahead of better players were definitely one of the main reasons why we were losing 3-0 at some point in the game instead of probably leading in the first half.
Playing striker in a number ten position, even though that striker isn't good enough to play even in striker postlition, and let alone take that position from our best attacking player in last few years, and move that same player wide left against defensively one the worst player in the league instead of playing pacy Rashford there, is definitely one of the main reasons we haven't scored goal before Liverpool scored theirs.
Playing striker in midfield instead of attack because you will cover his weaknesses is one of the things we should hold against Ten Hag at some point, because it looks like he wants Weghorst to have good game individually rather than the entire team to have good game.
It's like signing Sabitzer because we have a problem when Fred and Eriksen are out, only to realise he makes less damage as a fullback, so continue to play him as left fullback and move Shaw in midfield, despite being our best player this year in fullback position. And the weirdest thing about this all is that he hardly played players out of position before signing Weghorst, so he is definitely moving others to accommodate him for some reason.
Playing striker in a number ten position, even though that striker isn't good enough to play even in striker postlition, and let alone take that position from our best attacking player in last few years, and move that same player wide left against defensively one the worst player in the league instead of playing pacy Rashford there, is definitely one of the main reasons we haven't scored goal before Liverpool scored theirs.
Playing striker in midfield instead of attack because you will cover his weaknesses is one of the things we should hold against Ten Hag at some point, because it looks like he wants Weghorst to have good game individually rather than the entire team to have good game.
It's like signing Sabitzer because we have a problem when Fred and Eriksen are out, only to realise he makes less damage as a fullback, so continue to play him as left fullback and move Shaw in midfield, despite being our best player this year in fullback position. And the weirdest thing about this all is that he hardly played players out of position before signing Weghorst, so he is definitely moving others to accommodate him for some reason.
I couldn’t give a shit if he was playing in Uzbekistan earlier this season. I watch as much Turkish football as I watch Uzbek football. So I’m going to judge him by how he’s been playing for us and he earned his place in the team today on the basis of two good performances in his last two games. He was less good today but nowhere near as bad as most of his team mates.
Would have been better without him in all honesty
He's not been that good, he's a striker who can't score goals, and for whom running about seems to be his biggest attribute. I'm not denying that he might be the best option we have up front, given that our only other number 9 can't stay fit. Its why he's even an option in the first place, as soon as it was clear we needed a new striker in January we should have bought someone, or at least stumped up the money for felix or someone, rather than literal bargain basement
His biggest problem is not how limited he is, but that he provides so little goal threat that opposing defenders can pretty much forget about him and play their games on the front foot. And that is a big problem for the whole team. You can be sure if we had another striker, any other striker, they would be playing instead of him.
Considering our run of results with him in the team I don’t see it as the huge problem everyone seems to think it is. Our goals per game seems to have increased, if anything, since he was added to the squad. Including 4 goals in two games against the best defence in Europe so far this season.
Now obviously there are much better strikers out there and he is clearly not a long term solution but he definitely hasn’t been the handicap so many of you seem to think he is.
I mean, sure… in the sense that there’s a lot of people who are generously eager to big up any little thing he does as useful, when in fact it’s often the most bargain basement stuff that any semi-useful player would be almost embarrassed to be praised for…
He’s played a 3 yard pass to Rashford for a goal that only went in courtesy of a generous deflection, had a shot blocked that Garnacho collected and scored from a much harder angle, and then harried a very tired West Ham player into spaffing the ball to Fred in the last minute of an already won game…. All of which is fine, but hardly stuff any competent workhorse/large dog couldn’t do, and a particularly baffling thing to earn him cultish status, when players like Antony - who’ve been similarly underwhelming, but just as hardworking and important to the system, and at least actually a goal threat, and scorer in important games! despite not even playing in the one position where being a goal threat is basically the whole thing!! - have been fair game for lambasting…
I mean even Ighalo had a more productive output, whilst also being an otherwise fairly useless workhorse whose enthusiasm for being here was loveable enough to overlook his faults…
And again, I GET the point of him, and what he’s there to do… but I don’t think he’s even been particularly good at that, beyond what simply having a large enthusiastic dog running around the pitch and causing chaos would achieve
“Cultish status” ? Good Lord. I’d struggle to think of another player we’ve signed in the last several years who got such unanimous hostility so early on in his United career.
Oh wait… Is there a typo in the word before “status”?
Against teams we are clearly better than just having a number 9 to hold the ball makes a positive difference, and his pressing is effective. Against teams that can handle pressing and put him under pressure himself, like Barcelona or game raising Liverpool, he offers absolutely nothing. In those games it's like playing with 10 men.
Agreed, I think today there will be too much emotion in the air.
Obviously we all want a better striker but it was him or , well, no one
it’s weird saying his role in the team isn’t to provide the immediate goal threat, his role is to create better chances for rashford and I feel he does that
He's pretty bad, but it's hard for me to get too mad. He's a loan player from Burnley and came from the Turkish league. No reason to expect much from him. Just move on in the summer.
I like Wout but he is shit. Can't beat around the bush.
Even Ighalo was a bigger goal threat.
Even Ighalo was a bigger goal threat.
ETH will soon push Bruno to cb just to accommodate Weghorst.
ETH seemed to favor him for his industrial work rate in "big games". Of course, it was bound to stop being effective at some point as his quality is not up to the standard ( as everyone in the team in this game). It is not his exactly his fault. It is just a bit bizarre to use this tactic for most big games and for a player like him.
He’s the only lanky striker I’ve seen who appears to get smaller as he jumps for a header.
Having a striker who contributes no goal threat at all is a handicap. He doesn't have to be missing sitters or constantly making mistakes, just offering nothing isn't good enough in the Premier league now.
He is an emergency loan, not much of hope of him before he came really. Whats worrying is that the manager prefers that player over Sancho and Garnacho.
Tells you everything about how much the manager rates Sancho
Tells you everything about how much the manager rates Sancho
Just because the two are correlated doesn't mean he was the cause of us scoring more. He's a brutal negative in any attacking sense, his main contributions is that he offers a "defensive" presence up front that might help when the other team has the ball.
Weghorst joining is also in line with Rashford hitting the scoring form of his life, which is more of a coincidence than a reason to give Weghorst credit.
This argument is flawed. The question is whether you believe we would lose those two cup games without Weghorst by playing our starter + Weghorst replacement?
Shoehorning Bruno around just to fit Weghorst in that role, hinder Bruno influence. Weghorst neither good at support Rashford because he's too slow to catch up to Rashford's tempo to give Rashford enough support run; or can help to form an organized midfield against Liverpool direct, fast transition. Weghorst was lost (inconsequential) in the game. Tactically speaking, he's a hinderance for the team against tough opposition with quality.
The game was lost when Liverpool scored the first goal. They're dominating the game and they didn't lack in chances creation. Then Liverpool quickly killed the game earlier in the second half, while we were still hoping Liverpool would be dropping off.
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Liverpool XI turned up. You can point fingers at our best players, too, but to be honest, anyone can see we dig our own grave carrying hinderance.
Shoehorning Weghorst means moving Bruno into unfavored position until Weghorst subbed off. And the game is done and dusted by then. Some nice touch, hold up, pass, and pressing, but ultimately not something worth moving Bruno away from his natural position. Weghorst himself is almost useless attacking wise. He's not a midfielder. When opposition matches his workrate, and they're better at everything else, they had number advantage in midfield.
You only look at result which didn't give the full picture.
It's not like we can play Weghorst with our reserve players, and he carried our team to victory in those run of good result.
In reality, the key players of the team performed and carry Weghorst. Our key players hardly got any rest! Even the West Ham game where Weghorst had a good individual performance, we're losing and required more key players to come to the rescue . The final score covered over the crack that game could have gone into extra time/replay if we had less luck or West Ham made less mistake. Need to throw in key players (Bruno played the whole game), and go into 90th minute to decide the game can be seen as a misstep: too little rest for key players after the hectic schedule and Liverpool game coming up next!
Weghorst can have decent performance because of the platform, not because he's the cornerstone of the system. However, when we met our match and our key players got their hands busy, WW simply stuck out as out of depth. Arsenal easily contained him. Against Leeds 2 times (rivalry when they raise their game), during Weghorst time as forward, we couldn't defeat Leeds high line and high pressing tactic. Cost us 2 point. Against Barcelona first leg, Xavi messed up with starting Alba and Alonso together on the left side of the defense. Rashford terrorized them there tactically which covered over the crack for Weghorst meh performance. Second leg, half time substitution is very self explained. Even against Newcastle where the team had a professional performance, and Weghorst has one of his better game too. We were clinical to make the most out of the chances to kill the game, or the game was just a stalemate. We didn't dominate or create clear more than Newcastle. A quality delivery from Shaw and Casemiro well anticipation (why was it not Weghorst?). Rashford goal is from a very difficult angle.
The rest of the opposition we were expected to get good result from them, and we did, but we rarely made it easy for ourselves in those games too. For example, Leicester game. That first half could have gone wrong on another day, especially the first 20 minutes. Faes disasterclass helped us to decide the game, the dominating performance after 2-0 covered the crack the issue we have with this hipster tactic. And Liverpool may be another wake up call. Even if we had scored in those chances we created this game, Liverpool today looked like they're gonna go at us for the whole 90, so the issue we created ourselves would be exposed one way or another regardless of result. Even if hypothetically the result was only 2-0, 3-0, not 7-0, we're tactically bankrupted playing like that with Weghorst until he got subbed.
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Him playing in the #10 role has worked in some games, in others it hasn't. Today it didn't, and while I understand ETH starting that way he really should have changed it around to put him upfront and Rashford on the left once it was obvious it wasn't working.
I disagree with both scenario.
I am interested in hearing when you think it's the time to move WW up top and Rashford onto left wing because IMO it's obvious from the first minute that WW shouldn't be on the pitch in this game.
Without Rahsford's pace, Liverpool would be even more comfortable at the back. Despite VVD's decline, he won't have issue with someone like WW who is slow, not really good in the air. Without a quality CF to play off, Rashford may beat TAA, but he would run into Konate and stuck in a tactical stalemate again. Playing as CF, Rashford can target VVD side of Liverpool defense, which he did with some positive play.
Klopp had ETH pressing plan beaten. Our midfield was outfought, outnumbered. Our attack lacks creativity and support because Bruno was shifted to unfamiliar position, and Weghorst lag behind the tempo of our faster players in counter attack. We gambled on the fast transition, but unfortunate WW is even slower than Liverpool aging slow midfield. In the opposite end, when Liverpool went direct, quick transition, WW was not there to support our other midfielders. We left too much space in the midfield, that despite the bad rep of recent time, Liverpool midfielders got a good comfortable game to catch a breather and did their job.
Runs about a lot, loads of enthusiasm and willingness...............but enough about my Golden Retriever Harvey
It’s hardly a surprise that a championship level striker masquerading as a #10 for Manchester United looks completely out of his depth. He’s so far away from being good enough it’s laughable. Erik’s obsession with him is utterly bizarre & is actively costing us. You just can’t play sustainable attacking football when a key component of your team is so technically lacking. If he wasn’t Dutch I doubt he’d even be at the club.
This experiment has run its course and the sooner EtH accepts it the better it for us. I know we miss a CF upfront who can hold the ball and bring others into play, but this guy is not the answer. His effort and defensive work does not balance the lack of any cutting edge. For the rest of the season, we need to integrate Sancho/ Garnacho more into the first team and use Weghorst as a bench option.
Yeah didn't have issue with him starting but by half time it was obvious a change was needed.
People are not getting on his back now because we are in the midst of a good run, but when we inevitably don't win/lose a few tight games where your CF is expected to help make a difference in the box you can bet that will change.
Took the words out of my mouth. I don't enjoy shitting on the guy, you can see he absolutely loves playing for us, and he's very likeable. I probably wouldn't have posted in this thread at all, were it not for an alarming number of people who want to sign him on a permanent deal.
I can totally accept that we desperately need a starting CF and can't rely on Martial as back up, so we should should buy a decent one. I refuse to believe there aren't way better options than Weghorst in the £20-25m range. Danny Ings just moved for £12m. If we don't go the route of signing an experienced, proven forward like that, the other option is young prospect in the mould of Julian Alvarez who can deputise for a couple of seasons until they're hopefully ready to push for a starting place.
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Moving Wout upfront is less about him, and more about Rashford and Bruno.
Rashford has improved his form when playing as striker recently, but ultimately he is better on the left. From memory he had one moment where he really got in behind the Liverpool defence and looked dangerous, but otherwise he did very little even in the first half that was mostly an even battle. He has little hold-up or link-up play when playing in that position. Moving him over to the left may have allowed him to get at their defence more often, especially as his most dangerous movement is when he targets the space between the leftback and the left central defender. Meanwhile Bruno has had some games recently when he played well on the right but he was terrible in this match. Whether that was because he was played on the left or if it was just him having a terrible match in general (or a combo of both), we'll never know.
Wout has had some good games in that #10 role where his workrate and positioning has helped us unsettle the opposition and gain control of the match, so it was understandable to go that way again. In hindsight it didn't work, but with him being there I do think we should have tried the obvious rotation of those front three to get Rashford and Bruno back in their strongest positions to see if that would change things. If not, then take Wout off for either Garnacho or Sabitzer depending on whether we wanted to keep Bruno on the left or through the centre.
Like everyone he had a bad game and he isn’t good enough to stay behind this season but he’s done a decent job for us given circumstances.
The real issue is we’ve had to bring him in because we effectively got no centre forward due to years of awful decisions and having no funds to bring anyone else in this January.
We also have too many attacking players who aren’t pulling their weight, Sancho, Anthony and Martial so are completely reliant on him to be a starter.
The real issue is we’ve had to bring him in because we effectively got no centre forward due to years of awful decisions and having no funds to bring anyone else in this January.
We also have too many attacking players who aren’t pulling their weight, Sancho, Anthony and Martial so are completely reliant on him to be a starter.
We must help ETH and NOT sign Wout. In that way ETH will not be tempted to play him on no10. 
Deploying him as AM was something Mourinho would be proud.
Agree to disagree. Anyone on the pitch "plays a part", that's hardly a defence for me. You pick someone from the crowd to play, and you could argue they also played a part.
He is completely inconsequential. He plays as a striker or #10 and apart from pressing and some simple passes he offers nothing else. No goal threat, no creativity, no penetration, no pace, no aerial threat... even his hold up play is nothing to write home about. His contribution is vastly exaggerated. He was coasting on the back of good team performances where individually he offered quite little.
Yup. That’s the bottom line. He’s being picked on merit and that says as much about the alternatives as it does about him.
When we criticise his minimal contribution or the shifting around of better players to shoehorn him into the team after a win, we're labelled either haters or people who don't understand football. His contribution is allegedly visible in the results, we're told. When we criticise him and the selection of him after a defeat, there's too much emotion in the air and we're being irrational.
When's a good time to say that he doesn't offer enough to be starting, never mind shifting other players out of position for him? Can you let us know?
Bang on. If McT was playing as no.9 I think he'd be a bigger goal threat which is scary.
No doubt Hag is looking for that tall striker, maybe in desperation he went for Weghorst. But so far he is just not good enough
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