You just have to laugh at all the journos with their clear anti ME agendas/western washing.
Club Sale | It’s done!
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This is exactly the reason I hope we get bought out by one of the other billionaires.
Hardly! What do you disagree with in that post?
For the record, I am not pushing for the Sheikh Jassim bid - still don't have enough details about either of the bids to make any real conclusions.
However I find some of the fervent antiQatar rhetoric a bit much - absolute fair to ask questions about where the money comes from etc but fact is no one knows the answers
No worries - I realise most probably don't know the history of how we find ourselves here today.
People talk about needing regulations against leveraged buyouts like the Glazers or state ownership but in reality it's too late for that. This door was opened in the 80s and it's been one way traffic since then, hopefully there can still be some push back and the government do talk about an independent regulator but I'm dubious if it will ever happen or make any difference anyway.
So that being the case, I'm just interested in who will be the best custodian of the club going forward.
INESO will still put debt on united under their umbrella. Because they will not pay off the debt when they own only 69% of the club and the other 31% get a free ride.
Within minutes we have people calling Delaney pro Saudi and anti Middle East. This is perfection.
It's way past time to retire the RAWK and Bluemoon threads, we've got them beat.
It’s all the same shit City and Newcastle fans come out with. Everyone knows it’s the state, and even people pretending it isn’t are still operating under the assumption that they’ll have inexhaustible funds somehow (whilst INEOS don’t have enough money, despite SJR being considerably richer than Jassim) because deep down they know the state would be involved and just want to excuse seeming like sell outs. Just be upfront about it FFS.
As for Anti-Qatar rhetoric? Most of us who hate the idea of being state owned, opposed it when it was other clubs, and would genuinely find our achievements lessened going forward operating as the propaganda arm of a county with an anti-competitive advantage, have already dropped out of this thread due to the frankly depressing amount of people gagging for it, gloating over it, and more than willing to accuse anyone who isn’t of racism. Bored of it now tbh. Just as I was during the World Cup. Bad faith bullshit.
Yeah! Redcafe No.1!! MUGA!!!
Newcastle are officially owned by the state though? Nobody is pretending there because they don’t have to pretend.
Edit I’m not even sure anybody has ever pretended City weren’t state owned as well?
PIF were only allowed to buy the club under “legally binding assurances that the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia wouldn’t not have control over the club”
https://www.skysports.com/amp/footb...y-amnesty-international-after-us-court-filing
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.in...-crown-prince-tracey-crouch-b1965123.html?amp
They are pretending, the takeover was approved with them giving the Premier League assurances that they weren't going to be State owned.
But they are state owned, they’re just not supposed to run the club. It was a bullshit way to bow down to Tory pressure but they are officially state owned.
This is the worry. The ones morally against the Qatar purchase are constantly drowned out by fans spamming “buy Mbappe” or that they don’t care about Manchester. It’s just so exhausting wading through the awful posts that the good posters drop out.
Everything you said about the Sheikh came from a Dailymail source. And even the Mail admitted that their source hadn't personally met the Shiekh himself. Everything about this guy is surrounded in secrecy, that you can't even find a proper photo of him.
I don't work for Raine, so I don't know how they think, but I don't see why they would need this guy to exist. All they need is proof of funds, which the delegation can obviously provide, because the bid is most likely state funded.
It's all unknown ain't it?
Half the anti-Qatar people are saying Jassim hasn't got the money so he'll have to borrow and we'll have to pay for it. The other half are saying it's sport-washing by the Qatar state, in which case at least there should be loads of money injected. One side or the other must be wrong whichever it is. Truth is we don't know.
Pro-Ineos folk are saying the existing club debt will be transferred to Ineos so it doesn't matter, which may or may not be true but assuming it is there is nothing to say Ratcliffe won't take money regularly out of the club to cover it. Or indeed take money out for a return on his whole significant investment, or maybe just hope to tick along at minimal cost whilst the club's value increases nicely. There doesn't seem to be any actual evidence to say what his intentions are at all as far as I can see, just journalist and twitterati guesses. Ratciffe could be a Mike Ashley or a genuine fan looking to put his wealth into the club for a retirement hobby, or something inbetween. Nobody knows.
My own first choice would be Ratcliffe being a genuine fan and wanting to spend billions on the club he loves, I think that's unlikely but I'd love it to be the case. Second choice is Qatar state cash, and that I think is very likely. And yes, it is obviously about the money, bring it on.
We'd all love fan ownership are at least some partial ownership by fans.
At this stage I couldn't care about qatar ownership, yes, it is a country with questionable human rights, but we have been strangled by ownership that if it was to continue could actually end the clubs future with the dent they have laden on it.
The club needs billions invested into it, and that is only coming from oil money whether we like it or not.
At this stage I couldn't care about qatar ownership, yes, it is a country with questionable human rights, but we have been strangled by ownership that if it was to continue could actually end the clubs future with the dent they have laden on it.
The club needs billions invested into it, and that is only coming from oil money whether we like it or not.
Actually it will most likely come from the money Jassim’s dad made through selling his Qatar airways shares.
Surely people aren't actually doing the 'none of us really know where the money is coming from' line?
Apparently they are. It should be fairly obvious where the money is coming from.
Daddy is absolutely loaded.
Great article. No lies told. The more we peel back the onion on the moral perils of state ownership, the more we see what a calamitously dangerous idea it is for Man United to be involved with these people.
In your opinion.
How profound. We're all sharing opinions here.
So? Daddy's just going to hand him 5bn without conditions?
His Dad is worth 1.1b according to Forbes. Even if we inflate his net wealth with imaginary numbers (because Middle Eastern rulers are all corrupt and embezzel state funds in some way), he still wouldn't be wealthy enough to buy United. Nevermind that its his much poorer son attempting it. This is a state backed attempt at buying Man United. There is zero way around it.
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Agreed. There is however to much spoken in here as if it’s from the high grounds.. on both sides of the of the argument it has to be said.
I dont agree with that premise in the first place - its certainly possible but no, you do not know that for sure.
And Ive never heard any City or Newcastle fan claim they are anything other than state owned, it is absolutely clear in City's situation since Sheikh Mansour is the Deputy PM of Abu Dhabi. For Newcastle is a bit more of a grey area since the PL asked questions about it, but it is also no secret that PIF (the sovereign wealth fund of SA) are the majority owners.
BTW in case you are unaware, there are no rules against state ownership in the PL (perhaps there should be but thats a different discussion) so there is no actual reason to hide it.
However it is possible that Qatar are doing this to get around any conflict with PSG (who by the way are also quite openly a state owned entity).
It is also entirely possible that the Sheikh Jassim is putting this together as a private individual - his family history and high level connections to various financial institutions would give him easy access to the amount of money needed.
I dont particularly like the gagging or gloating type responses either - I actually do not want us to spend crazy amounts in the transfer market as it would certainly cheapen any success. We dont need oil/gas money to do that anyway - we have already spent (wasted?) ridiculous amounts in recent years as it is. That is the big difference between us and the likes of City, Chelsea, PSG etc - they never spent like that until the sugardaddy arrived so that did cheapen their subsequent success.
This is where they cry “whataboutism” if you point out war crimes committed by democracies are just as bad, and my personal favorite form of hypocrisy, ignoring the fact that the English and American governments struck an oil deal to put said autocracy in power.
My thoughts. You can actually see a lot of my posts and thoughts on the Qatar bid have later on been repeated by journalist as if they are itk when really it’s just logical thoughts based on the information we are getting.
The bid isn’t state sponsored, but state help/assistance will be there should it be needed or should costs spiral out of control. How the state will make funds available should they be needed I don’t know, most likely through interest free loans or via share purchasing/loans of/against different investments the dad owns. Eg hypothetically the dad owns 70% of a business worth £2b and needs £800m in 3 years time, the Qatar government would probably buy 50% of his stake or loan him against his 50% stake.
Because even if they are not directly involved 1) he is highly influential, respected and connected
2) A Qatari owning Man Utd will be a great source of national pride and they will want it to succeed.
Peel it back to the founding of the state. Not to deny their atrocities, but why is it more dangerous to be involved with these people than Ratcliff?
Are you abandoning the "Delaney works for the Saudis and are therefore against Qatar" narrative, in favour of the "Delaney is against the Middle East because he is for the West" narrative? It's hard to keep track, and you're of course not a hypocrite because that's the worst thing in the world, so I just want to make sure.
Sure I read somewhere on here that his dad was moved aside from the Emir because, even for a Qatari, he had too much money, estimated to be $30bn +.
ME rulers are ALL corrupt! Not racist that, no sir. You're sounding just like the Wum now.
I had no idea Delaney works for the Saudis and I’m not really sure what you’re trying to say here it’s a bit frantic.
And why would Forbes know? I really doubt that the Qataris are ringing Forbes and updating them on their bank balance.
Don't disagree with the fact it's state backed though.
Forbes and Bloomberg both run real time billionaires indexes that analyze the net worth of every hi net worth billionaire in the world. If someone wants to claim they are richer than what their known net worth is, they are going to have show it, as well as where they got the extra money from. In most of these cases, its easy to track based on stock option valuations of the likes of Musk. Its more nebulous when you get into Russian oligarchs and Middle Eastern Sheikhs, since they are so rampantly corrupt, often with the support of state power.
Absolutely right - no one knows much and some in here know even less than that!
Sheikh Jassim apparently is also a genuine fan - Ratcliffe meanwhile had admitted to 'split loyalties' with Chelsea where he is a season ticket holder, but that doesnt mean he couldnt be a good owner anyway.
I have big doubts about both bids for different reasons, mostly because there are too many unknowns but am quite ready for a change from the Glazers after too many years of mismanagement
Why would they have to show it to unauthorised 3rd parties?
Exactly - Forbes actually have no idea whatsoever.
Actually quite ridiculous to claim a man of his political and business history who has been involved in so many high level deals is only worth $1bn
Ah, my bad, no conflict, then. You just think the guy working for the Saudis is anti-Saudi, then, yeah?
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