FC Bayern München - 22/23 - No levers, no Lewy

[hasanejaz88]

There's such a juxtaposition between Bayern/Bundesliga followers and everybody else's understanding of the situation.

Bayern fans can pinpoint Nagelsmann's faults in team selections, tactics, experimenting and point out Bayern's poor form in Bundesliga. They were leading BVB by 9 points at the start of the year, now they're trailing by 1. Clearly that's a precipitous drop in form.

English fans will just take a cursory look at the table and say well they're still in running for the league why are they jumping the gun? Followed by "Nagelsmann must be going to spurs."

It's just funny man

I mean even Bayern/BL fans would say they are jumping the gun and that it is surprising. Bayerns lack of form is definitely not the only issue continuing to Nagelsmann being fired, a lot would also have to do with his relationship with the board/players, which was already starting to show signs of straining. The previous times Bayern sacked a manager in the middle of a season (Anchelotti and Kovac), they were in much worse positions in the league/UCL, those were much less surprising than this.

That's the issue with managing Bayern, it's not just results on the pitch you have to manage but also the egos of the board and players.

 

[Lemoor]

Not even 2 years after the Leipzig raid and Upamecano is the only one left in the team.

 

[do.ob]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

"takes a skiing trip" has become Bayern's equivalent of "sleeps with the fishes"

 

[B. Munich]

Since Klopps wins. They moved quickly to break up that team.

Really? Who did Bayern get from Dortmund after they won the league twice? Only Götze joined Bayern in 2013 but then Bayern were already champions and far ahead of Dortmund.

As far as I remember it was United who signed Kagawa from that team in 2012.

 

[B. Munich]

And Lewandowski wasn't rated, too, right?

You didn't mentioned Lewandowski in your post didn't you? But Gnabry, Kimmich, Goretzka, Davies. They were all bargains and little known players at the time Bayern signed them.

 

[Strelok]

You didn't mentioned Lewandowski in your post didn't you? But Gnabry, Kimmich, Goretzka, Davies. They were all bargains and little known players at the time Bayern signed them.

Goretzka was already pretty hot back then. Don't know what you guys fed him there though.

 

[B. Munich]

However, how many up and coming German players actually leave Germany, let alone go to the Premier League? Let's be real for a moment and be honest....Bayern's team isn't as good as you think.

The national team isn't as good as it used to be between 2006 and 2016. However, it's better than the results of the last tournaments suggest.
Also Bayern is much less reliant on having the German National team.

Tell me a squad in Europe that is stronger than Bayern!

 

[B. Munich]

Goretzka was already pretty hot back then. Don't know what you guys fed him there though.

He had a good season at Schalke. I don't think any top club was after him as Schalke desperately tried to avoid to get a transfer fee for him.

 

[Strelok]

He had a good season at Schalke. I don't think any top club was after him as Schalke desperately tried to avoid to get a transfer fee for him.

If my memory serves me right he had at least two good seasons at Schalke before moving to Bayern. I still remember the ruckus caused by his announcement to join Bayern on a free in the middle of season back then. That's probably why no top club was after him. He's German, would leave on a free it'd be Bayern anyway.

 

[Real Name]

Tuchel will win the league and CL and then get in argument with all the people there, from the president to the kitman.

 

[redcucumber]

Nah there were definitely reports of Goretzka being linked to other top clubs around Europe before it became clear he was joining Bayern. Certain there were threads and posts about him on here.

 

[Lyng]

I mean even Bayern/BL fans would say they are jumping the gun and that it is surprising. Bayerns lack of form is definitely not the only issue continuing to Nagelsmann being fired, a lot would also have to do with his relationship with the board/players, which was already starting to show signs of straining. The previous times Bayern sacked a manager in the middle of a season (Anchelotti and Kovac), they were in much worse positions in the league/UCL, those were much less surprising than this.

That's the issue with managing Bayern, it's not just results on the pitch you have to manage but also the egos of the board and players.

For me the most surprising one was Flick. Could it be issues between manager and Salihamidzic again?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Just do whatever the feck tou have to, to get past City

 

[bringbackbebe]

Tuchel will win the league and CL and then get in argument with all the people there, from the president to the kitman.

Bayern is the sort of club best suited for Tuchel. He'll focus purely on coaching while leaving recruitment to the experts who will buy Lukaku for him.

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

They also have double the champions league compared to us whilst playing in that farmers league. Some people forget that.

Well when you qualify every year....

 

[Real Name]

Bayern is the sort of club best suited for Tuchel. He'll focus purely on coaching while leaving recruitment to the experts who will buy Lukaku for him.

Yeah, that's true. I guess the board wont meddle with his stuff although Brazzo strikes me as someone who would do that and has done that. Lots of stories about him, maybe Bayern fans can say something about that.

 

[Antarion]

The weird thing is before the 2011/12 season it was a far more competitive league.

It’s a shame as they’ve got everything else correct - fan ownership, cheap tickets, great atmosphere, etc.

I also blame UEFA for ever growing disparity in money distribution. That said, Bayern did a great job and other teams like Schalke went bankrupt bc of bad management.

But football becomes more and more concentrated on some big clubs -> money makes moneay and success breeds success. If you are a player in the bundesliga right now, you know exactly: If you go to Dortmund, you get great education as your next step, but if bayern or another big club from spain or the prem is asking, you abandon ship asap - and because everyone doing so, dortmund can hardly keep their players as players always see the big guns winning it and if you want to win things you have to move there

All these schemes and money makes the sport how it is. Look at other leagues: French league was competitive until 2000 then Olympique Lyon and then PSG took over. I think "weaker" top leagues like ligue1 and Bundesliga have bigger problems with one team running away than Prem

 

[2 man midfield]

Really? Who did Bayern get from Dortmund after they won the league twice? Only Götze joined Bayern in 2013 but then Bayern were already champions and far ahead of Dortmund.

As far as I remember it was United who signed Kagawa from that team in 2012.

Gotze, lewandowski, hummels…

 

[strongwalker]

And Lewandowski wasn't rated, too, right?

Yeah if Bayern hadnt signed him he would have stayed at BVB without a contract and history would be different

 

[JPRouve]

Yeah if Bayern hadnt signed him he would have stayed at BVB without a contract and history would be different

Bayern can't purchase or sign any player that comes from Germany.

 

[red.knight]

Talk about ruthless, tell the papers before the manager. Wow. Bayern paid 25m euro contract compensation to Leipzig to sign him and now will pay the same amount to terminate him. Must be a serious problem outside sporting. I watched the Bayern v PSG the other week and Bayern looked really strong and have a brilliant squad. Daniel Levy should be on the phone with Nagelsman this morning getting him in to replace Conte.

 

[Slevs]

Heaven forbid they have to suffer the indignity of a title race.

Must've been a falling out. I read that long interview Neuer did recently and he was obviously very pissed with how Nagelsmann handled the sacking of the goalkeeping coach.

This tickled me

 

[stefan92]

Must've been a falling out. I read that long interview Neuer did recently and he was obviously very pissed with how Nagelsmann handled the sacking of the goalkeeping coach.

True, but that wasn't Nagelsmann's decision, so this is more like Neuer and Nagelsmann both getting into trouble with the board individually and for different reasons.

 

[Blackwidow]

Talk about ruthless, tell the papers before the manager. Wow. Bayern paid 25m euro contract compensation to Leipzig to sign him and now will pay the same amount to terminate him. Must be a serious problem outside sporting. I watched the Bayern v PSG the other week and Bayern looked really strong and have a brilliant squad. Daniel Levy should be on the phone with Nagelsman this morning getting him in to replace Conte.

Was it tactics of Nagelsmann or the ones the team arranged with him... - for me it looked more like a Jupp-Flick-incarnated version of Bayern. Even with 3 in the back - but the Jupp team had Martinez in front of the defense.

There was a team talk and a team evening some days before that after the loss against Gladbach. After that he changed some of his tunes...

 

[Goldfiessli]

Auba to Bayern in the summer?

 

[B. Munich]

Gotze, lewandowski, hummels…

That was long after they won. In 2012/13 Bayern won the title from Dortmund without stealing any of their players.

Lewandowski joined 2 years later, Hummels 4 years later.

 

[Niemans]

He had a good season at Schalke. I don't think any top club was after him as Schalke desperately tried to avoid to get a transfer fee for him.

Barcelona tried to sign him at that time. He was a player who was very followed that season.

 

[Noot]

Will get my prediction in early: they won't win the league next season with Tuchel. PSG aside, I don't think his style wins leagues in modern football. And regardless, his shelf life is 2.5 years tops.

 

[2ndTouch]

Will get my prediction in early: they won't win the league next season with Tuchel. PSG aside, I don't think his style wins leagues in modern football. And regardless, his shelf life is 2.5 years tops.

Which is a fair amount of time from Bayern perspective

 

[Adisa]

Bayern and firing coaches are like 5&6.

 

[Blackwidow]

Auba to Bayern in the summer?

Bayern already has the Tuchel-striker. Choupo played under him in Mainz and Tuchel got him for PSG... Now again at Bayern.

 

[Lee565]

This is how you run a club, absolutely ruthless and proactive in planning ahead in getting in the replacement manager straight away, no let's wait the end of the season

 

[Cloud7]

Tuchel will win the league and CL and then get in argument with all the people there, from the president to the kitman.

Bayern is the sort of club best suited for Tuchel. He'll focus purely on coaching while leaving recruitment to the experts who will buy Lukaku for him.

 

[Rnd898]

Haven't followed Bayern too closely apart from their results but the sacking definitely seems harsh. Despite being one point off the top they're heavy favorites for the Bundesliga title and also still involved the final stages of the UCL and DFB cup.

It's not like their performances have been bad either, given they've scored by far the most goals and conceded the least in the Bundesliga and also boast a 100% win rate in Europe this season with a goal difference of 21-2 and six of their eight European matches have even been against Barcelona, Inter and PSG. It's fecking baffling but whatever floats their boat, I suppose.

Seems Bayern have an impossible environment for any manager to succeed in the long term because the higher ups at the club like to meddle with on-the-pitch matters and regularly fall out with top coaches who are performing well.

Mount is on less than £100k? That's madness, thought he'd be on at least £180k. Still, he's shite, they might as well give Lingard a bash instead.

We're going a bit off topic here but yeah, Mount earns around £80K a week at the moment. He's still on the same contract he signed back in 2019 when he was promoted to the Chelsea first team squad following the loan spell at Derby. His wage demand for the next contract, be it at Chelsea or elsewhere, seem to be £200K+ though.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Seems like an overreaction.

Someone has to be the one who doesn't win the 10th/11th title in a row or whatever. It's just a natural thing, you really can't win them all.

 

[Blackwidow]

Seems like an overreaction.

Someone has to be the one who doesn't win the 10th/11th title in a row or whatever. It's just a natural thing, you really can't win them all.

Nagelsmann averages even less points than Kovac did. We have less points than a BVB that performs as good as last season. And if you watch Nagelsmann's former second parts of the season it never gets better - even worse...

 

[weetee]

Seems like an overreaction.

Someone has to be the one who doesn't win the 10th/11th title in a row or whatever. It's just a natural thing, you really can't win them all.

But it‘s not like he‘d lose it to some amazingly run club. Dortmund isn‘t playing that good it‘s just that Bayern play extremely inconsistent- and that goes for the whole time under Nagelsmann. Out of the cup and CL in a hilarious fashion (edit: last season) and this season so far is IIRC rhe worst since 2012 - surely the manager should belooked at closely in that case. But I‘d say that Nagelsmann is unlucky that Tuchel is in the market atm and eventually wouldn‘t be anymore come next summer.

Personally I think Nagelsmann comes across like a prick so wouldn‘t be surprised if he lost the locker room quite fast, especially since his achievements at Bayern aren‘t anything notworthy so far either.

 

[united_99]

This is how you run a club, absolutely ruthless and proactive in planning ahead in getting in the replacement manager straight away, no let's wait the end of the season

Not necessarily. Not sure why Bayern should be praised here.
It was clear Nagelsmann was not the finished article when they broke the bank to hire him.
So if they were not prepared for a couple of „below par“ seasons (and again everyone knew they would not be prepared to give him that time) then they should have hired a more experienced coach in the first place.
If anything they should be criticised for paying a record sum to get him only to get rid at the first opportunity.

 

[Champ]

Was never good enough for Bayern in my opinion, which counts for very little admittedly.
But always seemed like it was a step too far

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Nagelsmann averages even less points than Kovac did. We have less points than a BVB that performs as good as last season.

Yes... those are all perfectly consistent with 'not winning the title.' Which is a normal thing when you've won every title for a decade.