I'd say they wish they could have our beautiful bald egg.
FC Bayern München - 22/23 - No levers, no Lewy
- Thread starter Acrobat7
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Is it really?
Hire a promising coach who is clearly not the finished article, wins the Bundesliga and is challenging for another Bundesliga this season.
Beat PSG in the RO16 in the CL and a tie against City to come.
But apparently this is how you run a club, make a decision to sack someone without telling them, hire another manager whilst the other manager is on holiday, so he finds out via media that he is sacked?
Yep, a model way to run a club.
The loyalty of the board is not to the coach. We've wasted 7 years between LVG, Mou and Ole - clearly we're not the model either. At least Bayern win, turn a profit and play good football...
Oh so should Ten Hag be sacked if Manutd are 3rd and in CL next season this time?
Let me ask you a question? What part of my post, or any post has suggested Manutd is the model club?
Do you think they are sacking their coaches the minute they fall a point behind first place? There was obviously something going on behind the scenes, to ignore that in order to make some worthless point is just stupid.
Some context is needed here:
- Bayern were leading by 9 points at the beginning of the year, and now trail an average BVB by a point - so they've dropped 10 points in two months!
- The football has been dire - yes they beat PSG, but that was a tumescent performance and beating a dysfunctional team like PSG is not that special.
- Julian came in with a lot of fanfare, but he hasn't delivered. It happens, marriages can end up in divorce, and that's ok.
- On top of it, Bayern wanted to close the deal with Tuchel before he made a deal with Madrid - he's a German coach they've long admired (since Mainz), who's available, living in Bavaria, and who has the pedigree to kickstart their season.
- Bayern have prior of hiring a coach midseason leading them to win the lot (Flick) and Tuchel has taken over a club midseason to win the lot (Chelsea).
I agree. PSG are the definition of dysfunctional.
Bayern have won 1 CL (2 if you include 2013) and 10 or whatever league titles in the last decade. Whereas in the same period we have barely qualified for the CL and more often than not not even that.
So the basis on which Bayern makes a decision compared to United is very different (and this is before you even consider that the PL is more competitive than the Bundesliga).
But where I agree with you is that the Nagelsmann case (all the way from his record transfer fee hiring until now) is hardly a reason to have a dig at United or to see it as the way a club should be run.
I'm not saying any of the above isn't true, but Nagelsmann is 35. Surely they knew it wasn't going to be a straightforward fairy tale appointment from start to finish and that he'd need some time to find to properly find his feet? Sacking him at the first sign of trouble (be it problems with the board or whatever) sort of goes against the idea of hiring someone with a long-term vision in mind.
Best summary so far. I still don't know if I'm a fan of this decision, especially at this point in the season, but I'm not vehemently opposed, either. The football has been lacking this and last season, that's hard to deny.
I get all of that but when you hire such a young manager, its not going to be easy. Initially, he done very well at Leipzig and then it because average, nothing special as Leipzig still get CL places.
A 35 year old coach will have to learn on the job, how to deal with certain personalities, egos, etc...
I do remember last season there being issues with Lewandowski but when you hire a manager like him, you back him and you give him time.
Its not like he has them outside the CL places and out the CL.
It doesn't matter for Bayern that he is 35. The expectation (rightfully so) is that any manager that signs for Bayern is ready to be contender for the treble every season. Bayern is the third club he manages in the CL - which makes him the youngest manager to do so, but it also does mean that he has experience from top to bottom of the league table (he took over Hoffenheim and saved them from relegation) and is internationally experienced. Bayern is also the second club he manages that has the ambition to win titles (he failed to do so at Leipzig)
You deliver success and progress or you are gone, that's the simple reality of managing Bayern. Nagelsmann now simply looks like someone who reached his ceiling and it's not managing a top-level club, but probably a tier below that. More Pochettino than Guardiola if you like to make such a comparison.
I remember saying at the time that it was a bad move for him. He should've stayed where he was and waited for the Madrid job, which seemed earmarked for him. Bayern was a no-win situation, expectations are crazy high and even if he does the treble, he would only have... been as good as Flick.
Pep didnt win the treble and didnt get sacked at Bayern. So why was he given the seasons he was?
He definitely hasn't done his stock any good though, I dont see Madrid coming for him now.
He might need to go to Spurs or a club like that to rebuild that reputation before a big club comes back in for him.
It's a two-way street, Bayern had to show patience and give him time, but Nagelsmann also had to adapt to Bayern and its personalities (players who've won everything) and by all accounts it sounds like he was a prickly character.
Anyways, it's a moot point because it's a results based business. Results sucked, so he's gone.
Pep did come close to it every season, did never have an embarassing cup exit like the 0-5 last season in Gladbach and he always won the league in a convincing way while getting close to point records.
And on top of it his style of play always looked convincing, you rarely had doubts about that. He lost some games due to overthinking or simply being unlucky in the CL, but I can't remember a match under Pep were I would say "they well deserved to be beaten this clearly". I remember several of such matches under Nagelsmann.
And believe me I would remember if Pep had many such matches because I truly dislike him and would cherish such memories.
1.5 seasons isn't exactly patience and to your point, seems like Bayern's executive board and some older players (which I'm not always in agreement with because they have to be phased out like Neuer, Muller) have too much say compared to their dwindling performances. So the tension that arose has been similar to that of a Kovac or Flick. The Bayern team Nagelsmann has inherited and selected and formed by said Bayern executives, is not as good as they think. Talent and personality wise, it's not as it once was.
So the Bayern executives are also at fault here. Incompatible manager with players they primarily selected and aren't as good or consistent as they demand.
And it's telling how they were able to easily and directly weaken a direct rival by taking their manager, then just as easily discard him less than 2 seasons because they are pretty much the only team in the Bundesliga to do this with intent. Poach the best upcoming manager from the rival team, see if it works for us, and if not discard them and go from strength to strength.
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So it seems they’ve binned him because the team aren’t playing good football, the first team and reserve players haven’t improved under him and he went on a skiing holiday while the rest of the team were training at the club. Not really a good look, but I’m not surprised by anything this guy does anymore, I don’t think he ‘gets’ management at this level.
The 'rest of the team'? It's international break and not everyone at Bayern is training. And Austria is so far from Munich....
The public spat with Neuer made everything untentable and then the dip in form made it an easy out for Bayern, which they took. As a manager who needs to assert their rules and demands, he was underminded by Bayern and they took the side of Neuer, even after Neuer went against his own contract and went skiing himself when he wasn't supposed to.
Yeah well it wasn’t all going to happen in the same summer. The OP said you soon broke that team up, and you did.
You're factually wrong in your assertion
feck me Bayern are ruthless. I expect Naglesmann to rock up into the PL in the summer
That's just not true. The current Bayern squad is considered the best squad Bayern ever had.
Well then United is as guilty and to blame as you guys got Kagawa and Mkhitaryan.
Mhki wasn't part of the title winning team and we gave back Kagawa
What, by who?
I never claimed otherwise. That Dortmund side got plundered by a few teams, although Mkhitaryan wasn’t part of it.
Please tell me you're joking, I'm not good at German humor since it is lacking most of the time.
And? He's on holiday in the middle of the season while some players are still training at the club. How is that a good look for a manager of Bayern Munich?
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That's what I thought.
I give him a max of 1 1/" - 2 years before he has a big falling out with everyone and their mother at the club.
Because he had them play great football and they were absolutely dominating the league at will.
Tuchel will be Bayern’s 6th coach in the last 7 years. That’s even more than Chelsea.
They dominated the league because BVB were a circus back then. Pep saw 2 of their most embarassing CL exits I can remember. And he still was offered a third shot... Results alone can’t explain Nagelsmann’s dismissal. In this season alone he has 6/6 CL wins against clubs from the top leagues. That’s likely to be as much as Pep managed over three seasons in double the games...
Bayern are within their right to sack Nagelsman but how they did it is very cnutish
David Squires had this great comic when Tuchel became Chelsea manager, with Abramovich sighing to himself 'it's gonna be a looong 8 months' ^^
What i really, really find despicable is how it was all over the media before they even talked to him in person. Scummy way of doing things.