Bloody Barça fans, paying off other posters on here to ensure neutrality.
Which is to keep the peace and not because someone isn't what you said they are. Surely you see the difference between that and what you suggested earlier which would be denying reality, someone that commits crimes like for example Barcelona's board, is a criminal. There is no reason to separate the act from the perpetrator, it's a senseless idea that only allows people do behave in any way possible without being held accountable.Guess it was more of a lesson not to insult people. You know to attack the post, not the poster as they say on this forum.
ffsBloody Barça fans, paying off other posters on here to ensure neutrality.
Well the reason I don't call people idiots is not to keep peace but because I don't consider that civilized behavior. And of course they are being held accountable. For example a person who commits crimes and is convicted, goes to jail etc. That doesn't change whether I call them criminals or not. If the act is criminal of course they're being held accountable.Which is to keep the peace and not because someone isn't what you said they are. Surely you see the difference between that and what you suggested earlier which would be denying reality, someone that commits crimes like for example Barcelona's board, is a criminal. There is no reason to separate the act from the perpetrator, it's a senseless idea that only allows people do behave in any way possible without being held accountable.
That's not really the point, you said that people commit criminal acts aren't criminals, which is blatantly false. It's also not an insult, it literally describes them. Now you are free to not call them criminals, you are free to have a high level of decorum but it doesn't make them not criminals, you just chose to not say it.Well the reason I don't call people idiots is not to keep peace but because I don't consider that civilized behavior. And of course they are being held accountable. For example a person who commits crimes and is convicted, goes to jail etc. That doesn't change whether I call them criminals or not. If the act is criminal of course they're being held accountable.
Bloody Barça fans, paying off other posters on here to ensure neutrality.
Of course in some contexts they would be classified as criminals, yes. But I guess this started about what to call a person if you can't call them an idiot. I said there's no need to call them anything. So no, I probably wouldn't call someone who's committed a crime, a criminal to their face. As I wouldn't call anyone an idiot either.That's not really the point, you said that people commit criminal acts aren't criminals, which is blatantly false. It's also not an insult, it literally describes them. Now you are free to not call them criminals, you are free to have a high level of decorum but it doesn't make them not criminals, you just chose to not say it.
This threat is one of the most idiotic on Redcafe, thank you Barça ‘fans’.Do you apply that logic for positive traits? Someone showing overall athleticism isn't athletic, someone demonstrating agility isn't agile, someone repeatedly demonstrating intelligence isn't intelligent?
Poor fella thought Barca valued his ref reports so much that they would love to officially hire him after his dad stopped being the ref VP.
- After his dad lost his job at the CTA, he asked for a meeting with the club to see if they could hire him directly, as they no longer had to hide this relationship. He had a meeting with Grau and Soler who told him he would not be hired because the club was trying to save money, and that he felt the meeting was only held out of courtesy and only lasted 6 minutes or so.
C'mon Campnou,I won't be posting in this disrespectful echo chamber for a long time. There is 0 interest from the posters to know the truth, they already have their conclusions 100% without a any kind of doubt. People only accept one sided information (no matter if it comes from a random Twitter account from fanatics and it embarrassingly false) and the only response are insults.
FC Bribery don't playBloody Barça fans, paying off other posters on here to ensure neutrality.
I’m sorry man, they offered me a Messi jersey, and a couple nights at a air b n b on the beach!Bloody Barça fans, paying off other posters on here to ensure neutrality.
The ref who gave the pen against them must have been fired mid-game surely?---According to this tweet (take it with a grain of salt although the data from this twitter user has been published even on the press):
-Barca had 78 consecutive matchdays (2 full La Ligas plus 2 extra matches) without receiving a pen against them.
-Barca had 107 consecutive matchdays (almost 3 full La Ligas) while receiving only 1 pen against them.
Barça was winning 7-0 and he got orders to create a penalty against Barcelona out of thin air in order for future redcafe posters to say refs were biased against Barcelona.The ref who gave the pen against them must have been fired mid-game surely?
If Benfica had been picking up the tab, I think they would.In Portugal a entrepeneur was accused and facing charges for paying to players of Benfica's oponents to bottle the games, but strangely Benfica isnt being acused.
How are the powerful investors that bought a share of Barca's CL money the coming 25 years feeling right now? Without any doubt, there are many lawyers out there that are working day and night with side questions like that -- right now.This might be the first consequences for Barca for the Negreira affair:
As explained before, Barca are in the middle of a huge infraestructure remodelation called "Espai Barça". Works valued 1.5B€ plus interests. They don't have the funding yet, they planned to close it before 31 of March, proof, but they have already started demolishing part of the Camp Nou. Barca's own pictures
According to this article Laporta said Barca had the finantiation but they were still evaluating the best option between the different alternatives.
At first, Goldman Sachs was the best option to provide the financing but they asked the board for information regarding the impact the official charge and UEFA's investigation could have.
According to this article Goldman Sachs would now be asking for an interest rate not smaller than 10%, while Barca's board are expecting a 6%
This. Though I’d like to add that most manipulation for sports betting is more subtle, as manipulating the outcome of a game is somewhat noticeable. It’s mostly betting on the amount of yellow cards given and stuff like that. Things that can be done without involving too many people and a wrong yellow card doesn’t create that much attention.If Benfica had been picking up the tab, I think they would.
Match rigging without involving the club isn't that unusual. Some pays a ref to ensure that team A will beat team B, that person then bets a lot of money on team A winning. Doesn't have to involve team A.
We agree in that some don't want to know the truth, we probably disagree if who are not interested in the truth because they already made their mind.C'mon Campnou,
we are all interested in the truth, but some do not want to know the truth because it is not what they want it to be.
This is not how it works in real life, they have been caught and now they have to live with the consequences.
Please do not deflect, it almost sounds like a Trump post.
Not "off the books". The reason this is known is because payments are in the books and those services were taxed. The problem is the "nature" of those payments and the services, which is, at least, unclear.Do I want the truth to prevail?
Do I want to laugh for a while at a club that claimed to be the icon of morality in world football, while at the same time paid the VP of referees off the books for almost two decades?
The answer to both is yes.
TBF the situation wouldn't be as hilarious if Barcelona's arguments weren't hilarious as well. From neutrality to video reports to Real Madrid's conspiracy to Villar's conspiracy to them being actually hurt by the referees decissions over time to the VP of referees somehow having no power over referees.
In any case, that's no reason to call anyone an idiot. Plus, Barcelona's defense so far "makes sense" from a legal point of view. Deny, deflect, delay. Then settle while accepting some minor charges and fines and avoid any major sport consequence. If my club had done the same and I worked there I would probably had to do more or less the same.
Are these views common in Spanish football?I'm not against paying for winning, although it is illegal.
Of course not. They cannot defend their innocence anymore so now they are just trying to make it look like paying the ref VP is not as serious as what other teams did and other teams are as guilty as Barca.Are these views common in Spanish football?
They are digging up 100 year old evidence of possible conflicts of interest. Wow.Of course not. They cannot defend their innocence anymore so now they are just trying to make it look like paying the ref VP is not as serious as what other teams did and other teams are as guilty as Barca.
Today, the rage on twitter has been something similar to what CampNou said:
"From 1922 until 1953, 10 of the first 16 presidents of the ref committee were members, ex-executives or ex-players of Real Madrid"
But they do no add the fact that Real Madrid only won 2 of those 22 La Ligas...
By "these views" you mean the part you cited or the rest?Are these views common in Spanish football?
I think from an outsiders point of view, pointing fingers at Real Madrid is the worst possible excuse. Like — what about the 18 other teams in La Liga???
This is a very poor argument.Barcelona went 78 games without a penalty. You will probably know, as some posters here remember on each post. It is actually a total surprise. And it is, because those rallies without penalties usually only happen if your shirt is white...
Real Madrid has been 3 times with at least 78 games in a row without a penalty against them. Athletic was also 80.
https://as.com/opinion/2018/03/02/portada/1519995164_727076.html
You obviously missed the bit where he bought hundreds of cheques for just below the tax reporting limit in Spain during the same period that he was going out for expensive dinners with the referees he was evaluating. I mean, there is no proof but anyone with a functioning brain can tell you whee the money went and what it bought for Barca.I'm going to say for the 1313465th that I do not know where the money went and for what reasons, but I would apply the prudence principle before being very expeditive towards specific charges.
I’m not reading all that.As easy as this:
Rules to remember: no adult images or videos; mind your language; criticise the post not the poster; remain respectful to other posters.
If you are not an idiot you should understand that simple statement. If you do understand it, and you dont't respect it, you should be banned from the forum. Period. Those are the rules, and they should be enforced. It is very typical to see herd bullies on the internet, thinking that they can do whatever and they will be fine (they usually are). It is also typical that these people want respect for them and their opinions but they don't have the same courtesy with the rest.
A person can be an idiot, I don't deny it. But intelligent people do and say idiotic things, all the time. If you think you have never done/said anything idiotic... well... you are an idiot of the highest caliber and you should receive medical attention because you have some mental issues.
You can read a lot of idiotic and hypocrisy things here. For example, you get to see people defending friends of war criminals just because they bought their club. You can see how do even defend that the management was good although they were losing 100M a year for decades. You can read a lot of people who criticized Qatar or Newcastle or City or PSG, super happy with the possible opportunity to be bought by Qatar. You can see people defending the same penalty in one way of another depending on the color or the shirt. And I could go on for centuries. Things are not usually black or white.
People are biased because people are human (me, the first). The only difference is at least TRYING to read the arguments of the other and be respectful. You don't need to believe them, in some cases you don't even to respect them (the opinions), but you should have your mind minimally open. This is a FOOTBALL forum. You are not insulting a killer, you are insulting a regular person.
I don't care that a random guy on the internet insults me, I actually feel bad for him. What is going on in his life? For example, I post an official document from prosecution or official and there are just some people that cites me to insult me. I respond statistics with statistics and I only get cited to be insulted. I respond to a video with another video with higher quality and more angles and all I get are insults. Hmmm... ok??? do you have any argument to counter that or what???
Again... very easy to understand...
Rules to remember: no adult images or videos; mind your language; criticise the post not the poster; remain respectful to other posters.
You are a simple poster, you are not a judge or any kind of authority. It doesn't matter if you have written 3 messages or 30000. Respect the rules of go home.
Of course, you are free to insult me or do whatever you want as some of you have affirmed in this very forum over and over gain. Not only you don't respect them, you say that YOU DON'T HAVE TO. Who do you think you are? hahahaha.
I won't be posting in this disrespectful echo chamber for a long time. There is 0 interest from the posters to know the truth, they already have their conclusions 100% without a any kind of doubt. People only accept one sided information (no matter if it comes from a random Twitter account from fanatics and it embarrassingly false) and the only response are insults.
Good night and good luck!
That far?They are digging up 100 year old evidence of possible conflicts of interest. Wow.
Firstly, hilarious that they had to go that far back for any dirt on other clubs.
Secondly, as you say they won 2/22 titles, while it would be difficult to prove any inconsistency with refereeing individual matches, they certainly didn’t appear to gain an advantage, unlike the overwhelming statistics in favor of Barcelona during the period they paid a VP.
Thirdly, the World is still waiting for Barcelona to show any (if any) proof of their innocence. Instead of these poor attempts at trying to incriminate others and empty ramblings of their cnut President.
It is not poor, it just means that those stats are not unseen.This is a very poor argument.
All the rallies you mention happened from the 1930s to the early 1970s. Then there were no such rallies for almost 50 years, until Barcelona had one while also paying the ref man. So this is just more evidence of how unusual Barcelona's 'no penalty era' was, it was unprecedented in the modern era.
The strangest and funniest thing is that the author focuses a lot on the period "from 1933 to 1940." It is incredibly dishonest to try and frame some seven-year period of infamy, when Spain was in a civil war and there were three years without league competition.
The author points out that it was a guy called Mr. Chip who dug up these stats. That same guy thinks the penalty stat for Barcelona is very suspicious.
You wouldn't probably have any interesting thing to say so it is a win-win for both of us.I’m not reading all that.
I’m happy for you though
Or sorry that happened.
Since I'm a pedantic asshole I'm going to go back to this.- Statistics
Barcelona went 78 games without a penalty. You will probably know, as some posters here remember on each post. It is actually a total surprise. And it is, because those rallies without penalties usually only happen if your shirt is white...
Real Madrid has been 3 times with at least 78 games in a row without a penalty against them. Athletic was also 80.
https://as.com/opinion/2018/03/02/portada/1519995164_727076.html
The author clearly cares, otherwise they would have clarified it.Why would it be strange, funny or dishonest? Even with a war in the middle, it is still 88 games without a single penalty. Who cares if it was in 2 years or 7?
A lot of these insinuations assume people have no sense of history.Secondly, as you say they won 2/22 titles, while it would be difficult to prove any inconsistency with refereeing individual matches, they certainly didn’t appear to gain an advantage, unlike the overwhelming statistics in favor of Barcelona during the period they paid a VP.
Since I'm a pedantic asshole I'm going to go back to this.
I looked at the stats in detail and the explanation is actually quite simple. The average number of penalties per game from 1948 to 1952 is 0.332. Then it drops, to 0.193 the next four years (when Rreal Madrid has a good streak). It remains low the next 14 years, at 0.177. During this period Real Madrid and Athletic both have good streaks. Then the number starts going up again, and over the next 12 years the rate is 0.313 penalties per game.
So it's all quite simple. Penalties as a whole became less likely. This increased the odds of teams going without conceding a penalty for long streams, which then happened multiple times. Once the frequency of penalties increased, we stopped seeing this.
This is, however, not true for Barcelona's streak in the late 2010s. The average number of penalties per game from 2006 to 2022 was 0.307. The average number of penalties during the seasons in which Barcelona did not concede any, was 0.290. Basically no difference.
So this really just supports the idea that there's something very odd about Barcelona's streak!
Ok, I was actually referring to the tweet itself by Mr Chip. but I cannot insert media so I just put an article. I don't care about the article and explanations because he also says some inexactitudes.The author clearly cares, otherwise they would have clarified it.