Won't know until he fights a live body. The two guys he's fought so far have been absolute jokes, both turned up to fold as soon as a punch even half-landed. Don't think we can say he has 'frightening power' based off that. Even Itauma looked embarrassed last night, shrugging his shoulders and saying 'how?' at the fact the guy couldn't (wouldn't) get back up.
The RedCafe Boxing Thread
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Won't know until he fights a live body. The two guys he's fought so far have been absolute jokes, both turned up to fold as soon as a punch even half-landed. Don't think we can say he has 'frightening power' based off that. Even Itauma looked embarrassed last night, shrugging his shoulders and saying 'how?' at the fact the guy couldn't (wouldn't) get back up.
Watch some of his amateur bouts against some of the World’s best and most experienced amateur heavy weight fighters. The guy was only 16-17 and was schooling and overpowering all in his wake. Frightening! In 2 years time this thread will mostly be about Moses Ituama…
I normally hate overhype of young fighters but I think this one may be worthy of it.
Brickhead will step up the quality of opponents soon enough but may struggle to find too many prepared to get their bell rung for not much reward.
Yeah, there’s a bit of the young Mike Tyson about him isn’t there. He looks a lump, but he has incredible speed and slick footwork for such a big fella. And his power is scary.
I’m saying, in general, the guys a liar. Like when he said he didn’t care about money, and when he said he was gonna give all his Wilder purse to the homeless. When he said he’d only fight for free. When he said he ate Wild boat meat was the reason he was dirty, when he claimed he was depressed and the worst day of his life when he beat Klitschcko but fairly recently said it was the best day of his life. He’s said so much that he’s contradicting himself constantly.
So Fury offers Usyk 70/30 knowing that Usyk would probably reject it. Usyk doesn't reject it and laughably Fury finds an out. 
I think Fury's antics are about both money and mental health; in terms of 'fear' in the ring, I don't believe that for a second.
By mental health, I'm not talking about depressive states or anything of the sort, rather, him always being unstable, volatile and predictably unpredictable in his antics, behaviour and patterns to get practically any fight made. It's not exclusive to Usyk, and come and gone, he'll be the same further down the road until he retires. It's part and parcel of what he is.
The money part should be obvious. Since the Middle East got involved in boxing, nothing has been the same; if you can procure the bag there, you're making 3-4 times what you will anywhere else, morals be damned. Fighter splits and the rest of it are immaterial compared to what the pursuit is really about, which is getting the fight made and going ahead there. Take them out of the equation and everything falls back in line. If Fury can get a fight in the M.E. he'll take it over the noble, traditions of going elsewhere, unless someone else is willing to put the same kind of package forth, which they aren't.
Usyk is the fall guy in all of this, but not because of actual boxing as opposed to what Fury is and what he's in pursuit of; you can put <insert name> of any other opponent whom he believes he should be getting obscene money for and nothing would be different to what we're seeing.
Ultimately, like football, 'legacy' is meaning less and less to these athletes over acquiring eye-watering (even for them relative to what they previously earned) amounts of money.
By mental health, I'm not talking about depressive states or anything of the sort, rather, him always being unstable, volatile and predictably unpredictable in his antics, behaviour and patterns to get practically any fight made. It's not exclusive to Usyk, and come and gone, he'll be the same further down the road until he retires. It's part and parcel of what he is.
The money part should be obvious. Since the Middle East got involved in boxing, nothing has been the same; if you can procure the bag there, you're making 3-4 times what you will anywhere else, morals be damned. Fighter splits and the rest of it are immaterial compared to what the pursuit is really about, which is getting the fight made and going ahead there. Take them out of the equation and everything falls back in line. If Fury can get a fight in the M.E. he'll take it over the noble, traditions of going elsewhere, unless someone else is willing to put the same kind of package forth, which they aren't.
Usyk is the fall guy in all of this, but not because of actual boxing as opposed to what Fury is and what he's in pursuit of; you can put <insert name> of any other opponent whom he believes he should be getting obscene money for and nothing would be different to what we're seeing.
Ultimately, like football, 'legacy' is meaning less and less to these athletes over acquiring eye-watering (even for them relative to what they previously earned) amounts of money.
Strikes me as probably a good take on it. I think it's a particular shame with someone like AJ who used to have genuine broad appeal and an interesting view on the world outside boxing as well as within, to see him chase immoral money that he doesn't need, talk as if money is his sole objective, and lack the drive to go down as a genuinely great fighter. Perhaps there's more to it than meets the eye e.g. brain injuries, fear etc, but that perverse faux hip hop Money Mayweather vibe he's got going on just sounds like a fragile masculinity that wasn't there in him as a young man. He's like inverse Lewis Hamilton personality wise.
The money makes a cynic out of most, I think. Don't know if they can be blamed because they are using a new resource against a system that has always looked to exploit fighters wherever it can and then discard them at the end of the process, sometimes with lifelong damage to their health; they want to be recompensed accordingly and are in pursuit of the biggest slice of the pie they can get.
Boxing did this to itself over years and years and this is the new culmination manifest (M.E. money), which we're likely to see more and more fighters who are a big enough draw, pursue. Unless you're a massive global PPV draw or have a fight contract/package that pays handsomely (Canelo like), you're likely going to see these one-off bouts from infrequent boxers hosted where the money on offer is astronomical rather than simply good or satisfactory, like how it used to be.
Going by Fury, I think he's got maybe 3 or 4 fights left in him before he retires. The 'fear' being spoken of, I see more about missing out on the immense earnings he could secure than losing a fight or his belts, and if you think about that from his perspective, you could be talking about the difference between 8-figures and maybe 9 or even 10, if he plays his cards right and gets the fights that are the biggest possible draw after drumming up interest.
There's a lot more on the line than simply fighting Usyk to prove who is the best - that's not particularly high on the list of priorities for Fury, I'm guessing.
I know what you're saying, but don't you think it just comes with the turf? Most of them talk crap for whatever reason, mind games maybe, whatever. Fury gets held to his word though when others don't, which is what bugs me. I have my favourite fighters that I want to see do well, and some I dislike, but the words they say leading up to fights just go in one ear and out the other.
I usually find the truest words they speak are after they've battered eachother for 12 rounds and are stood with their arm over the other guys shoulder at the end.
I could get behind that. Anybody that gets bent out if shape at these guys chasing the best pay are hypocrites really. They're putting their lives on the line, of course they want as much money as possible. It's a short career for most. I don't even think Fury feels like he has much to prove with the opponents left out there, it probably takes a good pay day to get the juices flowing and get the focus he needs.
But like you alluded to, quite often these days, these fights are created over longer periods now. It's like a soap opera, the "will they, won't they" builds the fight. This, people getting bent out of shape that it didn't get agreed smoothly straight away, gets people built up for it. It's all a marketing ploy. I thought everyone knew that. You're probably right, they'll face some bums first and then after their fights, one of them will be ringside and they'll be in each others faces again for the cameras.
This, pretty much. Although I do think Fury knows this fight will happen barring a shock loss for either of them first, and he also knows that he will be building his legacy when the fight does happen. Why not get more money for the same fights and build a legacy? I'm sure he is confident in his ability to beat Usyk, so the next detail to consider is the money.
But yeah, you've summed Fury up well. Whether you admire his approach or not, he is just predictably unpredictable, as you put it. How often do you hear fans, pundits and promoters talking about good fighters needing that "star quality" or the charisma to push them up a level and draw in the fans. This is just Fury's schtick.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-65091581
Interesting. Would love to see AJ become self confident again and see if he can't take his game to the next level. He has such natural gifts in terms of stature and power and if the real him is still in there then you can't help but root for him.
I find it difficult to root for him in all honesty, lots of murmurings that hes an arsehole and billy big bollocks when the cameras arent around. One of the more overrated fighters in recent years too.
Well that's the thing, he didn't used to come across like that. He's gone down this sort of dirty money black hole and he genuinely used to come across as an interesting, thoughtful guy. Maybe he was always a cock, who knows, but he didn't seem that way. Everyone loses their way sometimes I suppose and as somebody said above, perhaps the money can make a cynic of anyone if they're not careful. I won't be holding my breath but would love a personality comeback, even if the boxing stays a bit average.
I think the comments above about Felix Trinidad show that it is possible to be a superstar, but stay humble. Can't be helping joshua that hes surrounded by uk boxing promoters, who are up there with the biggest scum anywhere in sports.
All boxers could be dodgeball champions.
It seems that way sometimes but there's quite a few who travel the world providing valuable experience to up and coming fighters or guys like French Heavyweight Carlos Takam and Britain's Dereck Chisora who'll take on anyone if the money's there and give them a test.
Fury
Usyk
AJ
Wilder
Joyce
These 5 should all be fighting it out between them regularly too bring life too the Heavyweight division
So far all we’ve seen is Fury/Wilder AJ/Usyk
not good enough, boxing in the HW division is an utter disgrace
Usyk
AJ
Wilder
Joyce
These 5 should all be fighting it out between them regularly too bring life too the Heavyweight division
So far all we’ve seen is Fury/Wilder AJ/Usyk
not good enough, boxing in the HW division is an utter disgrace
Usyk is a warrior and will fight pretty much anyone as long as the opposite camp aren't taking the piss.
Joshua and Joyce aren't averse to taking anyone on no matter if the opponent is at the peak of their powers or not.
Fury and Wilder are the worst of them. They want everything their own way and have very little regard for the game or their fans. It's all about the money and their ego for them.
AJ tomorrow night then. Hoping to see him get some confidence back, get a big knockout
That's the problem with boxing and how it is run. No one central authority that can mandate fights. Should just be a clearly defined ladder.
That's more like it. Fight was made remarkably quickly after Inoue decided to move up a weight class, got postponed about a week ago due to Inoue getting injured, and they've already rescheduled it. No drama, just two top fighters acting like grown ups.
Inoue is class in every sense of the word. My favourite fighter ever.
Quite a big swing in weights since their last Flight with AJ 11 pound heavier and Franklin nearly 2 stone lighter when he leaves at to White
This is a quality fight, like both guys but favour Inoue as he has the power as an equaliser.
Also a big positive for AJ is Derrick James who's an excellent trainer. He's levels above anyone who has coached Joshua. He's the best in the business by a landslide. Especially in observing Spence who started boxing late at 17 he's the most fundamentally sound fighter at welterweight. He has a consistent jab, lateral movement, picks his shots, pivots well, can fight off the back foot (shown vs Porter). It's almost unheard of for a fighter to exhibit that level of completeness having missed the teething period despite him having a golden gloves. Charlo (Mel) is also another great example very technical fighter but like Spence can step on the gas if they identify an opportunity.
I think Joshua fits this profile of trainer but just has to learn when it's appropriate to box in spots and then when he has to up the intensity. Something hopefully he learns from James that is a typical characteristic of his stable they know how to go up through the gears progressively as the fight moves on. It's a strong testament to the conditioning they are doing in Texas.
I think Joshua fits this profile of trainer but just has to learn when it's appropriate to box in spots and then when he has to up the intensity. Something hopefully he learns from James that is a typical characteristic of his stable they know how to go up through the gears progressively as the fight moves on. It's a strong testament to the conditioning they are doing in Texas.
If he can teach AJ when to box and when to bang, that’d go a long way to sorting him out
Harlem Eubank is fecking dreadful.
Channel 5 fight on now
Channel 5 fight on now
This Barnum circus >>> Klitschkos’ one-way-sludgefest era
I think Franklin will win tonight.
Joshua mentality just isn't there to handle the pressure in an individual sport like boxing. His style has changed since Ruiz and he's had two damaging losses since.
You can tell he bought into his own hype and seemed very insecure in interviews with a fake persona when he was unbeaten. The Ruiz fight rocked him massively, he was almost begging the ref to stop it. He lost to Usyk the first fight but he thought it was him that lost the fight rather than Usyk that won it. Second fight, he seemed confident that his game plan would work and then absolutely lost it when he lost the fight, his post fight antics were terrible. Now his persona has changed and it's coming across that way into interviews.
When he beat Klit & Whyte, he probably thought he would fight 1-2 times a year, win every belt and every fight and retire unbeaten. now he's not going to achieve that and he's not top dog I think he struggles to comprehend that. He also struggles against smaller guys and Franklin can cause him trouble.
The boxing casuals have totally written of Franklin too saying he's just a bum and that he's the equivalent of opponent as one of AJ's earlier fights. He's actually a very decent fighter and would give any of the top heavyweights a decent fight. You only have to watch the Whyte to see that.
Joshua mentality just isn't there to handle the pressure in an individual sport like boxing. His style has changed since Ruiz and he's had two damaging losses since.
You can tell he bought into his own hype and seemed very insecure in interviews with a fake persona when he was unbeaten. The Ruiz fight rocked him massively, he was almost begging the ref to stop it. He lost to Usyk the first fight but he thought it was him that lost the fight rather than Usyk that won it. Second fight, he seemed confident that his game plan would work and then absolutely lost it when he lost the fight, his post fight antics were terrible. Now his persona has changed and it's coming across that way into interviews.
When he beat Klit & Whyte, he probably thought he would fight 1-2 times a year, win every belt and every fight and retire unbeaten. now he's not going to achieve that and he's not top dog I think he struggles to comprehend that. He also struggles against smaller guys and Franklin can cause him trouble.
The boxing casuals have totally written of Franklin too saying he's just a bum and that he's the equivalent of opponent as one of AJ's earlier fights. He's actually a very decent fighter and would give any of the top heavyweights a decent fight. You only have to watch the Whyte to see that.
Money to be made if you think Franklin has a decent shot, he’s 1/8
Joshua’s downfall was trying be a boxer instead of using his biggest asset, heavy hands. I think it was Frampton who wrote about it recently, he just needs to get back to what he was before and stop trying to prove he’s some marvellous boxer, he isn’t, never looks good when he does it, just start throwing bombs again.
New trainer was essential, heavier weight again essential, if he can’t win this one then he’s done.
New trainer was essential, heavier weight again essential, if he can’t win this one then he’s done.
It will be interesting to see how the fight pans out if Joshua can’t get rid of Franklin early. Franklin looked to have decent hand speed and feet against Whyte and has dropped 20lb since then.
I have no issue with this fight for Joshua coming off 2 losses and a longish layoff but I think it’s nailed on Hearn will try and make the Whyte fight in the summer. No need to fight both IMO.
I have no issue with this fight for Joshua coming off 2 losses and a longish layoff but I think it’s nailed on Hearn will try and make the Whyte fight in the summer. No need to fight both IMO.
This Joshua narrative isn't making any sense. Ostensibly, the last fight he had was the best performance of his career in terms of technical boxing, output and also heart. It's just that he came up against a far superior technician with more know-how, stamina/output and heart. He'll only have that again if he matches up with Fury.
Rounding on Joshua for what he's not is rooted in how he's come up, but picking at that right now, at the time he's shown the most growth and development in his entire career, is very odd.
I should also add, from Joshua's camp, why the hell have they had him put on all that weight and lose the tank he'd only just developed at a weight that is far better for him? If he doesn't get control of the fight and is forced to work at a higher output than all that mass can handle, he'll be gassed inside 6, as was his previous M.O. and something he needed to get away from in the first place. It'll be immaterial if he gets the job done early, but if not, it'll be something that has the potential to cost him the fight.
Rounding on Joshua for what he's not is rooted in how he's come up, but picking at that right now, at the time he's shown the most growth and development in his entire career, is very odd.
I should also add, from Joshua's camp, why the hell have they had him put on all that weight and lose the tank he'd only just developed at a weight that is far better for him? If he doesn't get control of the fight and is forced to work at a higher output than all that mass can handle, he'll be gassed inside 6, as was his previous M.O. and something he needed to get away from in the first place. It'll be immaterial if he gets the job done early, but if not, it'll be something that has the potential to cost him the fight.
Anyone know what the cheapest way to watch this fight is?
Can I sign up to the 9.99 dazn monthly subscription and cancel before the end of the month?
Cba paying anymore to watch Joshua and struggling to find a reliable channel.
Can I sign up to the 9.99 dazn monthly subscription and cancel before the end of the month?
Cba paying anymore to watch Joshua and struggling to find a reliable channel.
Looks like you need to pay £19.99 for a monthly sub, £9.99 is monthly if you commit for a year.
Cheers. Yeah it seems the 9.99 is a 12 month commitment.
feck paying 19.99 to watch it. I'm not even that fussed about it but one of my inlaws wants to watch it.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/65148580
A good read. Scotland’s 1st ever undisputed world champion & arguably greatest ever Scottish boxer.
Sadly passed away earlier today. R.I.P.
A good read. Scotland’s 1st ever undisputed world champion & arguably greatest ever Scottish boxer.
Sadly passed away earlier today. R.I.P.
Dazn used to be 2 quid, it's 20 quid now, greedy bastards