Club Sale | It’s done!

[tenpoless]

If the Glazers are trendy, they would made a cryptocurency for United token, keep flirting with potential owners till the token price goes to the moon then dump it all before selling the club to the highest bidder.

But then again we are talking about people who dont even know if a swimming pool is old.

 

[Samid]

Needs to force these cretins out of the club. Enough is enough.

 

[MegadrivePerson]

Will it?

There has only been 1 meaningful matchday protest against the Glazers and that was the one that got the Liverpool game called off.

Even the ludicrous "stay outside" protest failed last year.

With so much left to play for, I'd hazard a guess that less than 1,000 people will engage in anything.

Exactly!

There's always talk of a major backlash but they've been here for 18 years!

Unless things start to go wrong on the pitch again only a tiny minority of fans will kick off. The majority of match going fans in particular aren't going to kick up too much of a fuss. They never do.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

But then the investment leaves the club?
I just can’t see how it makes any sense

I can only imagine that IF this thing is remotely likely to happen, Avram/Joel plan to overhaul the whole ownership structure once their siblings are gone.

Which would/should mean that Elliott/Carlyle/whoever get (significant) representation on the board, I don't see how it could work otherwise.

 

[Pscholes18]

Percentage of total voting power

Joel Glazer - 19.11%
Darcie Glazer Kassewitz - 18.15%
Bryan Glazer - 17.23%
Avram Glazer - 14.38%
Kevin Glazer - 13.77%
Edward Glazer - 12.99%
Edward Woodward - 0.05%

So, Joel and Avram hold - 33.49%

The rest siblings is around - 62.14%.

So then can't the sibs sell all of their shares to a buyer, and in turn that buyer has control of the club??

 

[horsechoker]

People are encouraging civil disobedience of fans without being prepared to do it themselves.

It's alright for you if local lad Dave Smith gets himself an ASBO and loses his job.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Bring it on, it's the only way now

If they are to stay, they won't announce anything until the season is over. Then they'll expect that a signing or two, coupled with 3 months of acceptance, shuts people up before the new season starts.

People are encouraging civil disobedience of fans without being prepared to do it themselves.

It's alright for you if local lad Dave Smith gets himself an ASBO and loses his job.

I've said the similar previously

I think most saying the protests would "make the super league ones look like a tea party" aren't affiliated with any plans to actually make that happen. There would be protests I'm sure, but I doubt it'll be anything like people expect.

 

[Skills]

The idea the Glazers would sell off some of their own shares for an investment into the club, seems wildly out of character.

 

[Moston Red]

If they do end up staying. I wonder if they’ll receive an invite to the Qatari consulate!

 

[Chesterlestreet]

So then can't the sibs sell all of their shares to a buyer, and in turn that buyer has control of the club??

No, because Joel/Avram's shares will be worth 10x the others in terms of voting rights post-sale: once, say, Darcie sells her shares, they go from being class B to being class A.

35% (or whatever it is - Joel and Avram) is more than enough to keep control of the club.

 

[Telsim]

No. Ogden and Delaney are legitimately shit sources. This isn’t hard.

Yeah, yeah...

I remember when you called me "negative for the sake of it" back in January when I told you it's very unlikely this is getting done in Q1, despite what Raine were saying.

Now I'm telling you it's very unlikely either of Jassim or Ratcliffe will own the club next season.

There's a reason these vultures haven't gone away, but have instead pushed deep into the process. And it's because their instincts are telling them there's a deal to be made. I don't know what their thinking is, but contrary to popular opinion the Glazers aren't divine businessmen who can't make a bad deal. And the parasites' psychopathic greed, and quite possibly narcissism, might just be enough to make them believe they really will sell the club for 10 billion down the line, or that they can outsmart the devil. Probably fancy themselves better than the old man and trying to one up him by making an even better deal, who the feck knows? Whether they will prove right or wrong is for the future to decide, but that matters little presently, if they believe they will succeed. The point is there's nothing stopping them from making a bad deal and wrecking the club and losing money.

Besides, enough reliable journos have repeatedly expressed doubt about a full takeover. And I have yet to see anything to convince me this doubt is unfounded.

 

[Mickeza]

Yeah, yeah...

I remember when you called me "negative for the sake of it" back in January when I told you it's very unlikely this is getting done in Q1, despite what Raine were saying.

Now I'm telling you it's very unlikely either of Jassim or Ratcliffe will own the club next season.

There's a reason these vultures haven't gone away, but have instead pushed deep into the process. And it's because their instincts are telling them there's a deal to be made. I don't know what their thinking is, but contrary to popular opinion the Glazers aren't divine businessmen who can't make a bad deal. And the parasites' psychopathic greed, and quite possibly narcissism, might just be enough to make them believe they really will sell the club for 10 billion down the line, or that they can outsmart the devil. Probably fancy themselves better than the old man and trying to one up him by making an even better deal, who the feck knows? Whether they will prove right or wrong is for the future to decide, but that matters little presently, if they believe they will succeed.

Besides, enough reliable journos have repeatedly expressed doubt about a full takeover. And I have yet to see anything to convince me this doubt is unfounded.

This is a massive wall of text which doesn’t dispute what is being said. They might stay. It won’t change the fact Ogden and Delaney are shit sources

 

[cyberman]

I can only imagine that IF this thing is remotely likely to happen, Avram/Joel plan to overhaul the whole ownership structure once their siblings are gone.

Which would/should mean that Elliott/Carlyle/whoever get (significant) representation on the board, I don't see how it could work otherwise.

You seem you can answer this but wouldn’t the two Glazers lose control of United if the rest sold up? I know they’d still have control as it is but if there was an overhaul why would investors give the two dickheads control when they own more class A shares from a sale(if it is restructured?)

 

[Brophs]

but contrary to popular opinion the Glazers aren't divine businessmen who can't make a bad deal.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a room read more incorrectly.

 

[Roboc7]

Ogden’s article has usual flaw, discusses Glazers seeking investment for new stadium etc and how it will allow siblings to cash out. Unless those siblings are giving up some of their profits then there is no investment and the other siblings own more of the club then Joel and Avram do so none of it adds up.

It’s just churning out the same nonsense with no thought or explanation.

 

[Castia]

If the bidders are serious then they should be paying up. The club would easily double its value in the coming years as suggested with success and future growth.

The club wont be worth between £10B -12B anytime soon mate especially whilst we're nowhere near winning the big trophies

We could just as easily finish 7th next season as 4th lets not kid ourselves then we'd need a massive investment for the stadium/squad on top of that I just don't see it.

Qatar will pay close to 6B for the club....wipe away 700m+ worth of debt and also finance the stadium and facilities so they're willing to invest 9B+ before we even look at signing players. We'll never get a better offer.

Theres 2 serious bidders whilst the club is valued at 5B there wont be anybody paying 10B+

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Yeah, yeah...

I remember when you called me "negative for the sake of it" back in January when I told you it's very unlikely this is getting done in Q1, despite what Raine were saying.

Now I'm telling you it's very unlikely either of Jassim or Ratcliffe will own the club next season.

There's a reason these vultures haven't gone away, but have instead pushed deep into the process. And it's because their instincts are telling them there's a deal to be made. I don't know what their thinking is, but contrary to popular opinion the Glazers aren't divine businessmen who can't make a bad deal. And the parasites' psychopathic greed, and quite possibly narcissism, might just be enough to make them believe they really will sell the club for 10 billion down the line, or that they can outsmart the devil. Probably fancy themselves better than the old man and trying to one up him by making an even better deal, who the feck knows? Whether they will prove right or wrong is for the future to decide, but that matters little presently, if they believe they will succeed. The point is there's nothing stopping them from making a bad deal and wrecking the club and losing money.

Besides, enough reliable journos have repeatedly expressed doubt about a full takeover. And I have yet to see anything to convince me this doubt is unfounded.

If the minority ones are still in it because they feel there is a deal to be made, why are the two full buyout bidders still in it?

If for the same reason, why is it "very unlikely" they'll be in charge?

 

[Telsim]

People are encouraging civil disobedience of fans without being prepared to do it themselves.

It's alright for you if local lad Dave Smith gets himself an ASBO and loses his job.

Precisely. I wonder how many of the revolutionaries are willing to get themselves a lifeban... or worse?

I'm sure protests will take place, but the majority of it will be Twitter outrage. Even if a game or two gets cancelled, and I doubt it, the responsible will be banned and quite possibly arrested, which will quickly see the end of that. And those that got themselves banned will quickly be replaced. What was it, 140 000 on the waitlist? Even if a hundred get banned, it will be a drop in the ocean. And that's before the FA step in.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Ogden’s article has usual flaw, discusses Glazers seeking investment for new stadium etc and how it will allow siblings to cash out. Unless those siblings are giving up some of their profits then there is no investment and the other siblings own more of the club then Joel and Avram do so none of it adds up.

It’s just churning out the same nonsense with no thought or explanation.

Same as what I've been saying. Nobody explains how they realistically expect it to work.

I'm very confident the Glazers won't kindly pass billions onto the club rather than their own pockets

 

[NK86]

If the other 4 want out, can they not rewrite the company charter to allow whoever is buying their shares to have the same voting rights as the current holders, thus ensuring they get maximum dollar value for their shares with the added benefit of shafting the two rats who want to stay and maybe forcing them to compromise too?

 

[Member 125398]

The club wont be worth between £10B -12B anytime soon mate especially whilst we're nowhere near winning the big trophies

We could just as easily finish 7th next season as 4th lets not kid ourselves then we'd need a massive investment for the stadium/squad on top of that I just don't see it.

Qatar will pay close to 6B for the club....wipe away 700m+ worth of debt and also finance the stadium and facilities so they're willing to invest 9B+ before we even look at signing players. We'll never get a better offer.

Theres 2 serious bidders whilst the club is valued at 5B there wont be anybody paying 10B+

I swear this total goes up a few hundred million every time it gets mentioned.

 

[Woziak]

They do, but it's this business with A and B shares again.

I suppose the narrative here is something like this: the other siblings sell their B shares to the likes of Elliott/Carlyle, thus turning them into A shares - while Joel and Avram keep theirs, thus retaining control of the club (in terms of voting rights).

I stress that this isn't my narrative, but what I perceive to be certain media outlets' spin on it.

Yep your pretty much spot on, however the VC will want two things, their own President/CEO on the board plus a say in how future investment will be made. Hypothetically the VC offers £4bn for the club but buy out the 4 siblings at £2Bn, this money only goes to the other 4 glazers not the club, so they would want something for this, no way they are doing that and then adding another £2bn for club investment which is what would be needed for stadium, training complex and squad improvements to own only A shares.

The more likely scenario is that they would gain 49% of new voting B shares with Joel and Avram retaining 51% in a restructure that would completely leave both remaining brothers wide open for a hostile takeover later on. Let’s be clear here, they would also expect the additional £1.5-2bn loan for restructure and stadium improvements to be repaid back all be it at reduce rate or interest free loan. This is structural refinancing of the club and more DEBT which may hopefully result in huge penalties to the Glazers that result in non repayments to the VC resulting in transfer of B share equity from Joel and Avram to the minority stake holder.

The club would be almost dual owned and the VC would want a significant return on their investment. If they invested £4Bn they would want back at least £6bn back in 7 years when all the investment has finished. So the two glazers left theoretically would be able to make £1.5/2bn each rather than £650,000- 750,000k now but neither are hands managers of successful businesses so this just won’t work.

Could they do it ? Yes they could but the problems will be monumental, on the plus side.
1. Only 2 Glazers will be left from the original 6
2. No dividends will be allowed by Vc as part of the agreement unless a serious profit is made after repaying the existing debt.
3. Transfers would be relatively unaffected and still driven by payer sales under FSP
4. Arnold and Murtourgh would stay who seem to have built up a good relationship with ETH
5. I’m pretty confident that a part of the agreement will be the introduction of a new CEO from the VC side who will be put in above Arnold and be more hands on.
6. The contract that The VC make with the two remaining Glazers will completely find them out, they could leave with very little if the debt gets out of control.

7. This maybe true and may force SJ to bid £6 billion now and that might still not enough with these parasites

 

[Chesterlestreet]

You seem you can answer this but wouldn’t the two Glazers lose control of United if the rest sold up? I know they’d still have control as it is but if there was an overhaul why would investors give the two dickheads control when they own more class A shares from a sale(if it is restructured?)

Good question.

But if something like this is indeed a possibility, I would think the basic premise (of the whole thing) would be that the investors (the ones buying out the other siblings) a) share the brothers' optimism with regard to how much the "brand" can keep growing and b) that they will not give them full control (I refuse to believe that they would invest billions of dollars and just leave the brothers to call all the shots).

This is pure speculation, but someone like Carlyle could agree to a) buy out the other siblings and b) agree to provide funds for infrastructural upgrades IF they indeed see the United brand as capable of growing as much as the brothers' seemingly think it can.

Again, though, if this happens, I would expect to see the investors represented on the board: the new structure would effectively replace the likes of Darcie with someone from Carlyle or Elliott (or both), and it would diminish the influence of the Glazer family (as such), even if Joel/Avram would still remain the biggest share holders in terms of voting power.

 

[laughtersassassin]

So then can't the sibs sell all of their shares to a buyer, and in turn that buyer has control of the club??

I guess Joel and Avram will buy some of the siblings shares to maintain majority ownership

 

[devilish]

Yep your pretty much spot on, however the VC will want two things, their own President/CEO on the board plus a say in how future investment will be made. Hypothetically the VC offers £4bn for the club but buy out the 4 siblings at £2Bn, this money only goes to the other 4 glazers not the club, so they would want something for this, no way they are doing that and then adding another £2bn for club investment which is what would be needed for stadium, training complex and squad improvements to own only A shares.

The more likely scenario is that they would gain 49% of new voting B shares with Joel and Avram retaining 51% in a restructure that would completely leave both remaining brothers wide open for a hostile takeover later on. Let’s be clear here, they would also expect the additional £1.5-2bn loan for restructure and stadium improvements to be repaid back all be it at reduce rate or interest free loan. This is structural refinancing of the club and more DEBT which may hopefully result in huge penalties to the Glazers that result in non repayments to the VC resulting in transfer of B share equity from Joel and Avram to the minority stake holder.

The club would be almost dual owned and the VC would want a significant return on their investment. If they invested £4Bn they would want back at least £6bn back in 7 years when all the investment has finished. So the two glazers left theoretically would be able to make £1.5/2bn each rather than £650,000- 750,000k now but neither are hands managers of successful businesses so this just won’t work.

Could they do it ? Yes they could but the problems will be monumental, on the plus side.
1. Only 2 Glazers will be left from the original 6
2. No dividends will be allowed by Vc as part of the agreement unless a serious profit is made after repaying the existing debt.
3. Transfers would be relatively unaffected and still driven by payer sales under FSP
4. Arnold and Murtourgh would stay who seem to have built up a good relationship with ETH
5. I’m pretty confident that a part of the agreement will be the introduction of a new CEO from the VC side who will be put in above Arnold and be more hands on.
6. The contract that The VC make with the two remaining Glazers will completely find them out, they could leave with very little if the debt gets out of control.

7. This maybe true and may force SJ to bid £6 billion now and that might still not enough with these parasites

Joel and Avram are just 2 out of 6 siblings. They also have the least amount of shares. Therefore if the other 4 decide to sell all their shares to a hedge fund then that hedge fund will have control over the club. Then investment will be need to be made to increase the value of the club. Will Joel/Avram put their hands in their pockets to pay their share cause no hedge fund will be putting their money in their pockets just to make the Glazers richer? What happens if that HF decide not to issue any dividends and to invest everything on the infrastructure? Will the Glazers be happy with no say and no money?

The Glazers had been searching for external investment for years and they have failed miserably. Then they placed the club for sale and even though they managed to attract HF they still pushed the third bidding process button. Its evident what's happening here.

 

[Roboc7]

Good question.

But if something like this is indeed a possibility, I would think the basic premise (of the whole thing) would be that the investors (the ones buying out the other siblings) a) share the brothers' optimism with regard to how much the "brand" can keep growing and b) that they will not give them full control (I refuse to believe that they would invest billions of dollars and just leave the brothers to call all the shots).

This is pure speculation, but someone like Carlyle could agree to a) buy out the other siblings and b) agree to provide funds for infrastructural upgrades IF they indeed see the United brand as capable of growing as much as the brothers' seemingly think it can.

Again, though, if this happens, I would expect to see the investors represented on the board: the new structure would effectively replace the likes of Darcie with someone from Carlyle or Elliott (or both), and it would diminish the influence of the Glazer family (as such), even if Joel/Avram would still remain the biggest share holders in terms of voting power.

If someone does buy out the siblings I don’t see any funds for a stadium or anything else being provided. They’d have to share the Glazers belief that the club can fund itself whilst there will be a huge growth in value irrespective of whether or not the club is successful.

There isn’t much incentive for someone to pump billions in after buying shares as the Glazers won’t be matching it.

 

[devilish]

Good question.

But if something like this is indeed a possibility, I would think the basic premise (of the whole thing) would be that the investors (the ones buying out the other siblings) a) share the brothers' optimism with regard to how much the "brand" can keep growing and b) that they will not give them full control (I refuse to believe that they would invest billions of dollars and just leave the brothers to call all the shots).

This is pure speculation, but someone like Carlyle could agree to a) buy out the other siblings and b) agree to provide funds for infrastructural upgrades IF they indeed see the United brand as capable of growing as much as the brothers' seemingly think it can.

Again, though, if this happens, I would expect to see the investors represented on the board: the new structure would effectively replace the likes of Darcie with someone from Carlyle or Elliott (or both), and it would diminish the influence of the Glazer family (as such), even if Joel/Avram would still remain the biggest share holders in terms of voting power.

And what would exactly justify this nearly blind confidence towards Joel and Avram? These leeches had been here for 17 years. Throughout that time

a- United had been transformed from the biggest club in the world/cash making machine with no debt into a debt ridden club running at a loss for 3 years in a row
b- United had lost their top spot not only in the UK but also in Europe.
c- Their main customers (aka the fans) absolutely hate them and things will get way worse if they stay
d- the infrastructure was left rotting

These Hedge funds aren't stupid. They won't throw money into a sinking ship unless they can, to the very least, change its captain. The only way I can see these hedge funds going to bed with the Glazers is for the latter to accept some nasty small print which would see them lose alot if not everything if targets aren't reached

 

[LordSpud]

Fair play HarryP. Stuck to his guns while a lot of folk were giving the whole "it makes no sense for the Glazers to stay".

This is the Glazers. Nothing makes sense with them.

 

[Suedesi]

I guess the market is taking notice... stock was trading at mid 20's a few weeks ago

 

[Castia]

I swear this total goes up a few hundred million every time it gets mentioned.

Well nobody knows the exact figure do they? and tbh when we're talking about figures of 6B+ it's a drop in the ocean

 

[devilish]

People are encouraging civil disobedience of fans without being prepared to do it themselves.

It's alright for you if local lad Dave Smith gets himself an ASBO and loses his job.

well they are superior fans so....

 

[Chesterlestreet]

If someone does buy out the siblings I don’t see any funds for a stadium or anything else being provided. They’d have to share the Glazers belief that the club can find itself whilst there will be a huge growth in value irrespective of whether or not the club is successful.

There isn’t much incentive for someone to pump billions in after buying shares as the Glazers won’t be matching it.

Yes, that sounds about right.

The premise is - has to be - that these investors are indeed very confident that United have a lot to go on in terms of growing the brand.

It seems odd enough to me at first glance.

But then again, unless the interest of Carlyle/Elliott (and possibly others) is just a smoke screen (and why would they agree to be used in this fashion by the Glazers?), they do appear to be interested in bidding...for something.

 

[croadyman]

If the bidders are serious then they should be paying up. The club would easily double its value in the coming years as suggested with success and future growth.

Yeah someone just put up the £6bn,would be horrific seeing Erik struggle because these leeches are greedy beyond words

 

[croadyman]

If this actually has any validity, Manchester United fans need to collectively take a stand and boycott the club until those parasites actually leave. Hit them where it hurts, we cannot keep letting them get away with owning this club as it continues to fall further behind.

Very true but there are many who just can't do that which I understand because football is a release for them from their lives

 

[mu4c_20le]

If we are worth around 5bn right now, imagine how much that would be if we started winning the league again and going deep in the CL.

Glazers would be mugs to take the money now, unless it's a stupid offer.

 

[Castia]

If we are worth around 5bn right now, imagine how much that would be if we started winning the league again and going deep in the CL.

Glazers would be mugs to take the money now, unless it's a stupid offer.

How do they get to that point though? you think we're close to winning leagues and Cl's? we could just as easily finish 7th next season as 4th and then what? suddenly it's a club without CL football (again) and the only 2 potential buyers (Qatar/Jim) are long gone

 

[Telsim]

If the minority ones are still in it because they feel there is a deal to be made, why are the two full buyout bidders still in it?

If for the same reason, why is it "very unlikely" they'll be in charge?

Difference in motivation. The vultures have a singular motivation - profit. They wouldn't be here if they don't sense it. They rely on the Glazers' greed. Both Jassim and Ratcliffe have other additional goals, presumably, which would have them stick around with the hope the parasites will instead be sensible and relent in their crazy demands. This couldn't be more evident in the difference how each of them approached this sale.

When it comes to the Glazers, if I'm forced to choose between their greed and their sensibility, I know which one I will choose. The only chance Jassim and Ratcliffe have is to pay up. They won't.

 

[devilish]

If the bidders are serious then they should be paying up. The club would easily double its value in the coming years as suggested with success and future growth.

The club had attracted just 2 bidders and none of them is interested to spend 6b on it. Meanwhile every business analyst state that United is already ridiculously overpriced at 5b. We are talking of a money losing business whose infrastructure is mush and whose competing in the most competitive league in the world.

Don't you think that if united does have such growth potential then the likes of Jassim, SJR and the many US investors specialising in sports wouldn't notice it?

 

[croadyman]

Yeah, yeah...

I remember when you called me "negative for the sake of it" back in January when I told you it's very unlikely this is getting done in Q1, despite what Raine were saying.

Now I'm telling you it's very unlikely either of Jassim or Ratcliffe will own the club next season.

There's a reason these vultures haven't gone away, but have instead pushed deep into the process. And it's because their instincts are telling them there's a deal to be made. I don't know what their thinking is, but contrary to popular opinion the Glazers aren't divine businessmen who can't make a bad deal. And the parasites' psychopathic greed, and quite possibly narcissism, might just be enough to make them believe they really will sell the club for 10 billion down the line, or that they can outsmart the devil. Probably fancy themselves better than the old man and trying to one up him by making an even better deal, who the feck knows? Whether they will prove right or wrong is for the future to decide, but that matters little presently, if they believe they will succeed. The point is there's nothing stopping them from making a bad deal and wrecking the club and losing money.

Besides, enough reliable journos have repeatedly expressed doubt about a full takeover. And I have yet to see anything to convince me this doubt is unfounded.

They have already wrecked the club and will happily see Erik walk if it saves money too

 

[croadyman]

I guess Joel and Avram will buy some of the siblings shares to maintain majority ownership

Oh yeah that's exactly what they are planning