Club Sale | It’s done!

[Chesterlestreet]

Dunno if anything's changed in that regard, but what was stated initially was that Raine only handle the Glazer shares. If hedge funds are buying/trying to buy non-Glazer shares, that has nothing to do with the ongoing bidding process handled by Raine.

Meaning (I would take it) that if the likes of Carlyle are involved in the ongoing process (the one handled by Raine), they are interested in buying Glazer shares (not A type shares with limited voting rights, i.e. the 31%).

 

[Marcelinho87]

This makes no sense. What have Raine been doing for the past few weeks if they're only asking this question now?! Haha. Comical.

One thing everybody should take from this whole shitshow is take nothing the media say at face value.

This is an incredibly large and complex takeover and I am certain Raine Group have kept in constant communication with all prospective buyers.

Just because the media take two weeks to spill their nonsense doesn't mean it's been stood still.

 

[crossy1686]

Why would the parasites sell some of their shares to give it to the club?

There is zero logic in this

They get money for selling their shares and then the minority shareholder also puts up the cash for renovations.

 

[glazed]

Is there some financial formula for calculating that? Or its just plucked out from thin air?

Thin air ngl. But it seems reasonable to say it is large.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

They get money for selling their shares and then the minority shareholder also puts up the cash for renovations.

Why would the minority cnuts put up billions for renovations when their stake in the club wouldn’t even be worth that much?

Also if the minority cnuts are offering X amount, the Glazers will want it all, not just some

 

[Dejaro90]

Perhaps Jassim is buying the 69% and Carlyle the rest.

Jassim wants 100% not only 69%.

 

[Alonzo]

Why would the minority cnuts put up billions for renovations when their stake in the club wouldn’t even be worth that much?

Also if the minority cnuts are offering X amount, the Glazers will want it all, not just some

there is zero sense whatsoever, and it will never happen

 

[crossy1686]

Why would the minority cnuts put up billions for renovations when their stake in the club wouldn’t even be worth that much?

Also if the minority cnuts are offering X amount, the Glazers will want it all, not just some

I'm not saying it will happen but the guys putting up a minority stake are doing it for a reason, just because we can't make sense of it doesn't mean it doesn't make sense to them.

Maybe they're promised first refusal on the rest of the shares? Or they agree to a full sale over the course of the next 5 years. I don't know, no one does, but never rule it out as a possibility.

 

[spwd]

I just thought being that they sound like they have a relationship with Jassims dad that they may have come in alongside Jassims bid.

Surely that’s what these minority bids are for? Raine can then put bidders together to drive up the price. I still don’t understand how minority investment works for the Glazers when 4 of them want out and the money gained would need to be invested in the club. It makes zero sense from their POV.

 

[Adisa]

Perhaps Jassim is buying the 69% and Carlyle the rest.

Surely that’s what these minority bids are for? Raine can then put bidders together to drive up the price. I still don’t understand how minority investment works for the Glazers when 4 of them want out and the money gained would need to be invested in the club. It makes zero sense from their POV.

The 31% is publicly traded and the bids won’t be to the Glazers. Acquiring that 31%is a lengthy process that will take months.

 

[AlexUTD]

Hopefully one of the main 2 bidders can get it over the line. The Glazers and the interested Us funds can feck off

I approve this message

 

[Victorian values]

They can't at the moment, but they might be able to in the future.

I think this will eventually be the business model, with the amount of money involved why would clubs not want to do this?

From memory, I think it would need 14 of the PL "shareholders" to agree to streaming games live.
Unless that was pooled so every club got a share of all the money it would be a non starter, if only because it would give United such a financial advantage it would kill the competition.
The owners of some clubs might rub their hands with glee at a short term money bonanza, and then sell their club at the enhanced price, but within 5 to 10 years, the interest would wane, attendances will drop and the "value" of every club would plummet.
In Spain, Barca and Real get the vast majority of the TV revenue and dominate the league, TV revenue is a relatively small amount compared to the PL.
In Germany Bayern are streets ahead of the competition in terms of finance, TV revenue is a relatively small amount compared to the PL.
Juve were similar in Italy until recently, PSG in France, Celtic and Rangers in Scotland etc.
The reason why the PL is cash rich is because a Brentford or Brighton etc can go head to head with the big clubs on any given day, if United get selling and keeping the money from live streaming they will very soon pull so far ahead of the rest that it will no longer be competitive.

 

[Giggsyking]

They get money for selling their shares and then the minority shareholder also puts up the cash for renovations.

Yeah, that makes no sense at all.

 

[crossy1686]

Yeah, that makes no sense at all.

I know it doesn't but they're doing it for some reason

 

[Giggsyking]

I know it doesn't but they're doing it for some reason

No, they are not doing it. What they are doing, is taking money from selling some of their shares. Giving nothing back to the club.

 

[jm99]

Jassim wants 100% not only 69%.

Jassim wants 100% of the club because it let's them take us private, and be subject to less strict regulation than a publicly traded company, if he cuts a deal with carlyle if they buy the other 31% I'm pretty sure they can still take us private which would be the goal

 

[Herman Toothrot]

From memory, I think it would need 14 of the PL "shareholders" to agree to streaming games live.
Unless that was pooled so every club got a share of all the money it would be a non starter, if only because it would give United such a financial advantage it would kill the competition.
The owners of some clubs might rub their hands with glee at a short term money bonanza, and then sell their club at the enhanced price, but within 5 to 10 years, the interest would wane, attendances will drop and the "value" of every club would plummet.
In Spain, Barca and Real get the vast majority of the TV revenue and dominate the league, TV revenue is a relatively small amount compared to the PL.
In Germany Bayern are streets ahead of the competition in terms of finance, TV revenue is a relatively small amount compared to the PL.
Juve were similar in Italy until recently, PSG in France, Celtic and Rangers in Scotland etc.
The reason why the PL is cash rich is because a Brentford or Brighton etc can go head to head with the big clubs on any given day, if United get selling and keeping the money from live streaming they will very soon pull so far ahead of the rest that it will no longer be competitive.

You've streamed United, now feck off home.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Jassim wants 100% of the club because it let's them take us private, and be subject to less strict regulation than a publicly traded company, if he cuts a deal with carlyle if they buy the other 31% I'm pretty sure they can still take us private which would be the goal

Don't see why the Qataris would need that. If they want 100% (and they probably do, I agree with that), it shouldn't be a big problem to secure that in good time after they've bought out the Glazers.

Anyway, based on what the papers say, Carlyle (like Elliott) apparently want to table a bid for a minority investment as part of the ongoing negotiations handled by Raine. If that is true, they aren't looking at the 31% (the much less valuable A shares), they're interested in buying shares from the Glazers.

 

[Heinzesight]

Can someone confirm this: a mate of mine assures me if we are sold for 5 or 6 billion, it means Chinless gets a serious wedge, around £100 million or something. Please tell me he’s talking shit. Something about the type of shares he owns.

Imagine the shit-eating grin on Woowar’s face as the deal goes through. Sickening.

 

[jm99]

Can someone confirm this: a mate of mine assures me if we are sold for 5 or 6 billion, it means Chinless gets a serious wedge, around £100 million or something. Please tell me he’s talking shit. Something about the type of shares he owns.

Imagine the shit-eating grin on Woowar’s face as the deal goes through. Sickening.

Well, I do remember reading that Woodward is the only non Glazer that holds class B shares, they aren't worth more financially, they just hold much more voting power. I think his stake is something like 0.5%, so that would probably be closer to 30 million, this is based on memory though so might not be entirely accurate

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Can someone confirm this: a mate of mine assures me if we are sold for 5 or 6 billion, it means Chinless gets a serious wedge, around £100 million or something. Please tell me he’s talking shit. Something about the type of shares he owns.

Sounds way too much.

He doesn't own that many shares. He does own B shares (same type the Glazers own) but those aren't necessarily more worth in a purely monetary sense than A shares.

In theory these B shares could be more valuable in a monetary sense: if you're trying to gain control of the club, you obviously want B shares. However, in Ed's case it's a moot point: he only owns a fraction of them - and nobody else besides the Glazers themselves own a single one. In other words, nobody will need his shares (and thus be willing to pay substantially more for them).

Pure speculation but: he's probably got some sort of arrangement with his former bosses, so that he gets whatever they get for their shares. But, again, he simply doesn't own enough of them to rake in 100 mill.

(He'll still make a pretty penny, of course.)

 

[Heinzesight]

Well, I do remember reading that Woodward is the only non Glazer that holds class B shares, they aren't worth more financially, they just hold much more voting power. I think his stake is something like 0.5%, so that would probably be closer to 30 million, this is based on memory though so might not be entirely accurate

Sounds way too much.

He doesn't own that many shares. He does own B shares (same type the Glazers own) but those aren't necessarily more worth in a purely monetary sense than A shares.

Cheers for that. Yeah, he did mention B shares come to think of it.

 

[Plant0x84]

Can someone confirm this: a mate of mine assures me if we are sold for 5 or 6 billion, it means Chinless gets a serious wedge, around £100 million or something. Please tell me he’s talking shit. Something about the type of shares he owns.

Imagine the shit-eating grin on Woowar’s face as the deal goes through. Sickening.

Yup, he has around half a million shares. He’s going to make a good few million off the sale.

edit - about £11.5m by my maths at current price.

 

[clarkydaz]

Yup, he has around half a million shares. He’s going to make a good few million off the sale.

edit - about £11.5m by my maths at current price.

feels like a family mob has been running us, just sickening

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Why would the minority cnuts put up billions for renovations when their stake in the club wouldn’t even be worth that much?

Also if the minority cnuts are offering X amount, the Glazers will want it all, not just some

I don't think we're supposed to call them that anymore

feels like a family mob has been running us, just sickening

Equity is a pretty common component of CEO compensation. Nothing weird about this at all tbh.

 

[jm99]

Sounds way too much.

He doesn't own that many shares. He does own B shares (same type the Glazers own) but those aren't necessarily more worth in a purely monetary sense than A shares.

In theory these B shares could be more valuable in a monetary sense: if you're trying to gain control of the club, you obviously want B shares. However, in Ed's case it's a moot point: he only owns a fraction of them - and nobody else besides the Glazers themselves own a single one. In other words, nobody will need his shares (and thus be willing to pay substantially more for them).

Pure speculation but: he's probably got some sort of arrangement with his former bosses, so that he gets whatever they get for their shares. But, again, he simply doesn't own enough of them to rake in 100 mill.

(He'll still make a pretty penny, of course.)

Also, the B shares are converted to A shares if sold to anyone outside the Glazer family so they aren't more valuable in that sense, they are more valuable sold all at once however, because even holding 9.1% of the club in class B shares gives you total control, that's why the offers are coming in way above the market cap

 

[owlo]

Also, the B shares are converted to A shares if sold to anyone outside the Glazer family so they aren't more valuable in that sense, they are more valuable sold all at once however, because even holding 9.1% of the club in class B shares gives you total control, that's why the offers are coming in way above the market cap

Nah, if any minority shareholder holds 15% it becomes a non issue.

 

[jm99]

Nah, if any minority shareholder holds 15% it becomes a non issue.

How do you mean? The class B shares have 10x the voting rights so comparatively 9.1% ownership is worth 91 compares to the 90.9 that owning the rest of the shares would give you.

Unless there's some hidden clause that changes it, but I think the whole point was to allow the Glazers to maintain total control even if they slowly sold their shares off

 

[croadyman]

Presume if there was a relationship between Carlyle and Sheikh Jassim then it would get picked up on by reliable sources

 

[Widow]

How do you mean? The class B shares have 10x the voting rights so comparatively 9.1% ownership is worth 91 compares to the 90.9 that owning the rest of the shares would give you.

Unless there's some hidden clause that changes it, but I think the whole point was to allow the Glazers to maintain total control even if they slowly sold their shares off

I'm sure I read that the x10 power of the class b shares revert to normal if/when the leaches sell them.

Shares explained

 

[Plant0x84]

I'm sure I read that the x10 power of the class b shares revert to normal if/when the leaches sell them.

Shares explained

Correct. Any B class shares (with 10x voting power) become A class (with 1x voting power) when they are sold outside of the Glazer family.

Each Class A ordinary share is entitled to one vote per share and is not convertible into any other shares of our capital stock. Each Class B ordinary share is entitled to 10 votes per share and is convertible into one Class A ordinary share at any time. In addition, our Class B ordinary shares will automatically convert into shares of our Class A ordinary shares upon certain transfers and other events, including upon the date when holders of all Class B ordinary shares cease to hold Class B ordinary shares representing, in the aggregate, at least 10% of the total number of Class A and Class B ordinary shares outstanding.

 

[jm99]

I'm sure I read that the x10 power of the class b shares revert to normal if/when the leaches sell them.

Shares explained

Yes, exactly that's why even with only around 10% of the shares, the Glazers still maintain control if they only sold a stake and still kept some

 

[Woziak]

Yup, he has around half a million shares. He’s going to make a good few million off the sale.

edit - about £11.5m by my maths at current price.

More than that he has 0.5% voting b shares which is where most of his money will come from if we sell for £5.5bn he’ll get £27.5m plus what ever A shares he has !

 

[Plant0x84]

More than that he has 0.5% voting b shares which is where most of his money will come from if we sell for £5.5bn he’ll get £27.5m plus what ever A shares he has !

What a banker!

 

[owlo]

How do you mean? The class B shares have 10x the voting rights so comparatively 9.1% ownership is worth 91 compares to the 90.9 that owning the rest of the shares would give you.

Unless there's some hidden clause that changes it, but I think the whole point was to allow the Glazers to maintain total control even if they slowly sold their shares off

You can sue for variance once you hold 15% of shares. And will nearly always win. In this case, you'd definitely win as the variance is prejudicice and controlling.

Activist shareholders and hostile takeovers wouldn't exist if the B shares thing was a golden bullet.

 

[Rolaholic]

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Oh feck no...

 

[Mickeza]

Ogden He hasn’t broken a story since Fergie retired!

 

[AltiUn]

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Oh feck no...

Even if true, history tells us with the Glazers in control then ten Hag will crash and burn, as will our stock price.

 

[BluesJr]

Was always going to go this way when a quick sale didn’t materialise.

 

[cyberman]

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Oh feck no...

It’s not 2014, you can disregard what Ogden has to say