Club Sale | It’s done!

[bosniamanutd]

when this saga is expected to end ?

 

[DownRiver]

As climate change gets more important in the next 10/20 years, you will see more news about Ratcliff's INEOs on their impact on the environment. You will see Man utd connected to petrochemicals, forever plastics etc

You think Qatar will be bad, you will see...

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Because we live in the real world. Musk was the richest person in the world yet had to borrow $13bn to buy Twitter with reported quarterly debt payments of $300m.

The acquisition of Twitter represented a far smaller percentage of Musks 'net worth' than Manchester United would Jim Ratcliffe's.

The idea we "don't know" Ratcliffe's deal will involve considerable debt is like standing on the runway at Heathrow and saying we don't know for sure the 747 on the tarmac is planning to get to New York by going up in the fecking air

On the flip side I could argue that the Qatar bid is a sham. The money is genuine of course but it isn't coming from Jassim as they claim it is.

How is that any better? We'd be starting off a new relationship under false pretences. Hardly reassuring is it that they have to lie to even get a chance in the process.

 

[Adisa]

Ratcliffe has been the one leaking most to the media during this whole process. You don't need to do that if you think you're ahead in the race

We don’t know this.

 

[stw2022]

As climate change gets more important in the next 10/20 years, you will see more news about Ratcliff's INEOs on their impact on the environment. You will see Man utd connected to petrochemicals, forever plastics etc

You think Qatar will be bad, you will see...

To be fair we were way ahead with the Just Stop Ole campaign

 

[stw2022]

On the flip side I could argue that the Qatar bid is a sham. The money is genuine of course but it isn't coming from Jassim as they claim it is.

How is that any better? We'd be starting off a new relationship under false pretences. Hardly reassuring is it that they have to lie to even get a chance in the process.

The Qatar bid is not relevant to the fact Ratcliffe will need to leverage considerable debt to pay for us.

 

[devilish]

On the flip side I could argue that the Qatar bid is a sham. The money is genuine of course but it isn't coming from Jassim as they claim it is.

How is that any better? We'd be starting off a new relationship under false pretences. Hardly reassuring is it that they have to lie to even get a chance in the process.

I agree but there again if Qatar is behind all this then why aren't they winning? Surely they can outbid SJR if they want to

 

[stw2022]

We don’t know this.

We don't "know" anything beyond that statement the Glazers put out in the autumn of 2022.

 

[Brophs]

If he's intending to buy the other two out, it could take ages. There are just too many questions surrounding his bid. What do you think Brophs?

Aye. There’s no short term realism to that. There’s no sense in them staying on only to accept similar money in a couple of years. If they’re staying on - with little voting power, no less - it’s in the hope of a pot of gold (which is apt, because Big Malc looked like a paedo leprechaun) via the Super League or a fundamental change to the streaming rights negotiation/distribution. They CL reforms won’t cut it. The more likely cycle for changes like that would be 5 years+, if it ever happens.

I’m similarly underwhelmed by him. It feels like the name above the door would be all that changes. I’ve always assumed the Qataris would pony up and I’m still of that view, broadly speaking. They’re trying to squeeze Qatar for every last penny. You can only sell the farm once, after all. A partial sale with the two gimps staying makes little sense from their point of view. They’d be watching a guy run their club and their invest, with no record of success in football club ownership, in the hope he’d increase the value of the asset sufficiently to make having stayed on for a later divestment worthwhile. Which would be tricky, as their votes shares become less relevant once the initial sale has taken place.

 

[Brophs]

True. But he's up against Jassim and his ol'man. With their bank balance it's as if Jim's taking on an oil state.

Sorry. I meant he’ll get the deal done if he can and worry about the clean up later.

 

[DOTA]

The clubs future is literally at stake here. A lot of people who have made their name/wealth via the club have been far too quiet.

I'll start with the biggest of them all. Sir Alex Ferguson.

He an extent he gets a pass considering what he has done for us but even he isn't untouchable. A lot of people won't like his loyalty being questioned as he's taken on almost a holy figure If he truly loves the club/fans that have given him everything he needs to speak up. He can't just show up to games every week, smile and make a passing comment about the squad every now and then.

Can you imagine the impact if SAF spoke out against the Glazers?

Him and a few other "Legends" can't sit around scratching their a** hoping this will all pass and they'll continue to make an income off their history at the club. TOP figures in and around the club need to speak up now. We will remember who fought for our clubs future and who protected their own interests.

What is it you want him to say?

 

[rimaldo]

why are people that upset? even if ratcliffe buys us, there’s nothing stopping us forcing our women back into the kitchen and persecuting the gays.

 

[bludsucker]

Oh shut up playing the race card.

Ineos is one of the largest companies on the planet, that's where their money comes from. The business itself.

Whereas the Qatari money we all know comes from Oil and projects using slave labour.

Oh shut up playing the corporate lick spittle. Ineos is an oil and chemical company. Their money comes from raping the environment.
Whereas “Sheik Jassim’s” money comes from his inheritance.
See two can play at this game.

 

[Giggsyking]

Not really, INEOS biggest problem has been the lack of clarity with the debt and investment and it’s still the same you have to at least ask why? Might be nothing in it but it’s being left open to interpretation for a reason.

Jim did not bring up the debt because he is keeping it. Do you think he would want to miss out on such an important positive information in his pr that put the fans on his side?

There's a reason ge did not do that because british version of the Glazers is not removing the debt or goint to invest heavily in the infrastructure.

There is zero chance he removes the debt while the other 2 Glazers and the 30% class A share holders pay nothing and get it for free.

 

[pascell]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ted-bidders-make-third-attempt-to-clinch-deal

“Sheikh Jassim’s bid consists of the £5 billion sum that will go to the sellers if successful, plus additional amounts for club facilities and other investments, one of the people said.”

So as I said earlier on this is £5 billion for the Glazer’s 69% controlling part of the club therefore is over $1 billion each for each Glazer as £5 billion is $6.3-6.4 billion dollars, the Qataris want 100% of the club but that isn’t owned by the Glazer’s and is shared out by randoms which the Qataris would have to buy up afterwards.

I didn’t believe that the £5 billion offer would include money promised for work on the club in infrastructure and transfer investment as the Glazer’s being the parasitic cnuts they are couldn’t give a feck about the club after they’ve squeezed that last bit out of it, everyone was too busy listening to sports journalists who know nothing about finance.

So it basically comes down to do two parasitic cnuts agree to feck off for over $1 billion along with their siblings or stay on in the hope they’ll be getting dividends each year and pray they get a big sum IF the club was sold in 10-15 years which is highly unlikely.

It'd be £5bn for 100% of the club, so 69% of £5bn would go to the Glazers, no? There's no way £5bn goes to the Glazers and an additional £1.55bn to buy the other 31%, plus debt, infrastructure upgrades and player investment on top, you're looking at a potential £10bn outlay.

The clubs future is literally at stake here. A lot of people who have made their name/wealth via the club have been far too quiet.

I'll start with the biggest of them all. Sir Alex Ferguson.

He an extent he gets a pass considering what he has done for us but even he isn't untouchable. A lot of people won't like his loyalty being questioned as he's taken on almost a holy figure If he truly loves the club/fans that have given him everything he needs to speak up. He can't just show up to games every week, smile and make a passing comment about the squad every now and then.

Can you imagine the impact if SAF spoke out against the Glazers?

Him and a few other "Legends" can't sit around scratching their a** hoping this will all pass and they'll continue to make an income off their history at the club. TOP figures in and around the club need to speak up now. We will remember who fought for our clubs future and who protected their own interests.

I've read it all now and this is up there with the worst, terrible takes and you should be embarrassed at some of things written here about one of the most influential figures in our clubs history.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

The Qatar bid is not relevant to the fact Ratcliffe will need to leverage considerable debt to pay for us.

The debt, if there is any, will be leveraged against INEOS. A company that has turnover of 60bn a year.

I don't think you understand what that means.

As for the existing Glazer debt it hasn't been confirmed what's happening with that yet. It's all guess work.

I'd be amazed if Sir Jim thinks not removing debt and allowing the Glazers to stay in a minority capacity is going to wash with fans which is why I think that's not the plan.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

I agree but there again if Qatar is behind all this then why aren't they winning? Surely they can outbid SJR if they want to

They can but clearly they don't want to overpay.

I still think they might win too even though that's not what I want to see happen. This ain't over yet.

 

[bludsucker]

I don't think anyone would claim that most billionaires are paragons of virtue, but simplifying opposition to racism is facile and seems to be the default last line of defense for the Qatari PR machine here. It totally ignores the real reason that most are against the takeover. When pointed out that it's really because most don't want the club to become a sportswashing vehicle for a state, the default response is then 'well that's just the way the story is going', which is really no counter argument at all.

As opposed to being a sports washing instrument for an oil and chemicals company? If you look closely enough then both the bidders are bot so different at all. If that is the case then i would like to go with one who is the best for the club. And by that i mean investment into the stadium and removing the debt laden onto the club.

 

[DOTA]

Once again, not what greenwashing is.

 

[Cloud7]

Have Todd Boehly and Clearlake made a bid yet?

Glazers rejected Boehly's offer to spread the payments for the club over 100 years

 

[Barthez]

Will Jim actually ‘fix it’ or will he turn out to be an undercover snake?

 

[stw2022]

As bad as plastics are I bet Ineos has spent more money on investment intended to find solutions to the problems they cause than the Qatari government has on initiatives to stop them from persecuting homosexuals

 

[Nou_Camp99]

As bad as plastics are I bet Ineos has spent more money on investment intended to find solutions to the problems they cause than the Qatari government has on initiatives to stop them from persecuting homosexuals

Pretty sure they don't let thousands of their work force die needlessly too to build something they bribed their way in on.

Anyone putting INEOS along side the atrocities of Qatar has already lost the argument. Trying to justify all that so you can have some oil money is just absolute madness. Just shows how easy sportswashing is because a lot of people on here don't care about any of it as long as Utd are successful.

 

[cyberman]

As bad as plastics are I bet Ineos has spent more money on investment intended to find solutions to the problems they cause than the Qatari government has on initiatives to stop them from persecuting homosexuals

Why?

 

[stw2022]

Pretty sure they don't let thousands of their work force die needlessly too to build something they bribed their way in on.

Anyone putting INEOS along side the atrocities of Qatar has already lost the argument. Trying to justify all that so you can have some oil money is just absolute madness. Just shows how easy sportswashing is because a lot of people on here don't care about any of it as long as Utd are successful.

On that we agree

 

[Bosws87]

Once again, not what greenwashing is.

It doesn’t line up with the official definition, but there not wrong.

Anyone that thinks Ineos won’t use the purchase of united to improve there image to the outside world is beyond naive.

 

[devilish]

They can but clearly they don't want to overpay.

I still think they might win too even though that's not what I want to see happen. This ain't over yet.

I believe that they are being victim of their own arrogance TBH. On one hand they are lowballing the Glazers and on the other hand they come out with these huge plans for Manchester United which are making these greedy rats salivating for that money. Its like you having a car on sale for let's say 2k, I offer you 1k and I tell you I'm lowballing you because I am close of buying a villa, a super yacht and I have plans to travel the world this year.

 

[Giggsyking]

why are people that upset? even if ratcliffe buys us, there’s nothing stopping us forcing our women back into the kitchen and persecuting the gays.

What?

 

[DOTA]

It doesn’t line up with the official definition, but there not wrong.

Anyone that thinks Ineos won’t use the purchase of united to improve there image to the outside world is beyond naive.

That's called sportswashing.

 

[Dve]

As opposed to people not asking where INEOS’ owner git his money from. Don’t get this attitude people have towards the middle east. Seems like white people money is somehow cleaner than brown people money. Smacks of racism. No billionaire is going to be completely clean.

Is that the most stupid and uneducated comment of the week? Probably. Qatar is effectively a dictatorship? Oh, you didn't know that?

Well, who cares. They're gonna build us a new stadion.

 

[Spoony]

Aye. There’s no short term realism to that. There’s no sense in them staying on only to accept similar money in a couple of years. If they’re staying on - with little voting power, no less - it’s in the hope of a pot of gold (which is apt, because Big Malc looked like a paedo leprechaun) via the Super League or a fundamental change to the streaming rights negotiation/distribution. They CL reforms won’t cut it. The more likely cycle for changes like that would be 5 years+, if it ever happens.

I’m similarly underwhelmed by him. It feels like the name above the door would be all that changes. I’ve always assumed the Qataris would pony up and I’m still of that view, broadly speaking. They’re trying to squeeze Qatar for every last penny. You can only sell the farm once, after all. A partial sale with the two gimps staying makes little sense from their point of view. They’d be watching a guy run their club and their invest, with no record of success in football club ownership, in the hope he’d increase the value of the asset sufficiently to make having stayed on for a later divestment worthwhile. Which would be tricky, as their votes shares become less relevant once the initial sale has taken place.

If that's true

Aye. There’s no short term realism to that. There’s no sense in them staying on only to accept similar money in a couple of years. If they’re staying on - with little voting power, no less - it’s in the hope of a pot of gold (which is apt, because Big Malc looked like a paedo leprechaun) via the Super League or a fundamental change to the streaming rights negotiation/distribution. They CL reforms won’t cut it. The more likely cycle for changes like that would be 5 years+, if it ever happens.

I’m similarly underwhelmed by him. It feels like the name above the door would be all that changes. I’ve always assumed the Qataris would pony up and I’m still of that view, broadly speaking. They’re trying to squeeze Qatar for every last penny. You can only sell the farm once, after all. A partial sale with the two gimps staying makes little sense from their point of view. They’d be watching a guy run their club and their invest, with no record of success in football club ownership, in the hope he’d increase the value of the asset sufficiently to make having stayed on for a later divestment worthwhile. Which would be tricky, as their votes shares become less relevant once the initial sale has taken place.

If it's true they're partial to a minority stake then they must be sure of a super league or PPV.

 

[stw2022]

If it is Qatar I'd want hand off ownership. Investment that's sensible and targeted not Gemma Collins after a scratchcard win at Cadbury World. I don't want a new team every three years. I don't want to be Disney United. The English PSG. Players with zero affinity to the club and no connection with the fans. No 'project'

Invest in youth, build something that can sustain itself without the owners.

 

[Bosws87]

That's called sportswashing.

They used the wrong word, they are still right.

 

[DOTA]

They used the wrong word, they are still right.

'They' is many different people on many more occasions in the thread. Intervention is clearly required.

 

[devilish]

Both potential owners will be engaged in sportswashing. United as a business is not worth 5b.

 

[Spoony]

Then again, Jim would have total control with 51%, he wouldn't need to buy the remaining Glazer shares. @Brophs. So, the Glazers wouldn't be able to make him to their choon.

 

[Bosws87]

'They' is many different people on many more occasions in the thread. Intervention is clearly required.

I’ve used it in the wrong context myself only after I read into it, did I see it’s explicitly the art of guising products as renewable or sustainable to disguise they are doing less damage, maybe an official definition could be added.

 

[Plant0x84]

So as I said earlier on this is £5 billion for the Glazer’s 69% controlling part of the club therefore is over $1 billion each for each Glazer as £5 billion is $6.3-6.4 billion dollars, the Qataris want 100% of the club but that isn’t owned by the Glazer’s and is shared out by randoms which the Qataris would have to buy up afterwards.

This is wrong. Assuming Jassim has bid 5bn then that is the valuation he places on the whole club, the Glazers only get 69% of that which is roughly 3.4bn between them. The debt and infrastructure investment may well be on top, but those figures are largely irrelevant to the Glazers and probably won’t affect their decision.

 

[Plant0x84]

Not really, INEOS biggest problem has been the lack of clarity with the debt and investment and it’s still the same you have to at least ask why? Might be nothing in it but it’s being left open to interpretation for a reason.

It’s been said before but NDA. Also we have had reports that plans are in place for debt and infrastructure but they are irrelevant to the bid, so are not included. Everybody just assumes that is for negative reasons which are then blown out of proportion by the pro-Qatar lobby.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

This just proves "greenwashing" works as well as "sportswashing".

Exactly!