Club Sale | It’s done!

[Nickelodeon]

Genuine question because I’m completely clueless on this stuff. How does the debt we have affect us? We should obviously have never had it in the first place, the way the Glazers took over shouldn’t be allowed.
I just don’t know how it actually affects us, does it hamper our ability to sign players with FFP?

The debt itself is not the major problem. The issue with Glazers and debts is that they bought the club and put the buying amount debt on the club. The debt was supposed to be finished by now but instead it has increased. The club's spending becomes hamstrung because of interest payments. While this isn't so evident in our transfer business, there has been very little infrastructure development. So much so that Old Trafford hasn't been considered in the 10 stadiums for the Euro 2028 bid. Clubs like Spurs and Man City have better stadiums and training facilities than us now. While success on the pitch is dependent on more factors than the owners, from an infrastructure point of view, there is no reason why we are where we are off the pitch. And on top of that, Glazers are picking up massive dividends that the amount have now earned in dividends is more than the initial amount they bought the club for.

From an FFP perspective, debt leads to interest payments which forms a component in our P&L. Ultimately, it would be better from an FFP perspective if we didn't have the debt but its not our biggest problem. Our problem is leeches who have already:

• Earned more money than they initially borrowed to buy the club
• While the club has more debt than ever
• While being behind the other clubs in every footballing and infrastructural metric

So when fans hear the word debt, the PTSD is triggered and all we can think of is Glazer-like.

 

[Blood Mage]

I don't think there's any doubt that Ratcliffe will be a considerably better owner than the Glazers, but this was probably our last shot at acquiring the kind of wealth which would help us to compete with City so it's hard not to feel disappointed. The Qataris will probably turn to another PL club like Spurs next and that will make it even harder to stay competitive.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

The thing with Ratcliffe also is we don't know what his intentions are. He's not short of money whatsoever so we don't know if he's coming to make more money or he's coming to be a bit like Abramovich was.....a multi billionaire who just loves football and wants his team to be the best in the world.

If he does win this let's hope it's the latter.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

The thing with Ratcliffe also is we don't know what his intentions are. He's not short of money whatsoever so we don't know if he's coming to make more money or he's coming to be a bit like Abramovich was.....a multi billionaire who just loves football and wants his team to be the best in the world.

If he does win this let's hope it's the latter.

Let's hope it's the latter, I think even the most pro-SJR folk are just assuming it is the last point. Hoping his desire to takeover United and lead them to glory is a way for him to leave a long lasting legacy.

 

[HarryP]

The thing with Ratcliffe also is we don't know what his intentions are. He's not short of money whatsoever so we don't know if he's coming to make more money or he's coming to be a bit like Abramovich was.....a multi billionaire who just loves football and wants his team to be the best in the world.

If he does win this let's hope it's the latter.

Listen to his interviews from the time he tried to buy Chelsea and the one in the Summer. He was asked if he was looking to buy a club to make money. He laughed and said he has INEOS to make money and doesn't need a football club to do it. He's buying purely for sporting success, there's no question.


You can see the BBC one with Dan Roan here. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61320812

 

[Berbaclass]

I don't think there's any doubt that Ratcliffe will be a considerably better owner than the Glazers, but this was probably our last shot at acquiring the kind of wealth which would help us to compete with City so it's hard not to feel disappointed. The Qataris will probably turn to another PL club like Spurs next and that will make it even harder to stay competitive.

Yeah I have also come round to this opinion. A part of me feels good that whatever success we do achieve from here it will be more ‘organic’ than if we were state backed.

 

[hobbers]

For all we know though he could well be planning on do this. People who badly want Qatar have said he will never pay it off without a shred of evidence.

That’s his own fault though. Why hasn’t he made any mention of debt in his press briefings?

They draft up a statement where they say meaningless soundbites about progressive ownership and returning the club to Manchester. But they know what United fans care most about with ownership is not saddling the club with crippling debts, so why say nothing about it?

 

[sullydnl]

The thing with Ratcliffe also is we don't know what his intentions are. He's not short of money whatsoever so we don't know if he's coming to make more money or he's coming to be a bit like Abramovich was.....a multi billionaire who just loves football and wants his team to be the best in the world.

If he does win this let's hope it's the latter.

Tbh I don't even care if he's coming to make money, just as long as we see investment in the club's infrastructure and sporting success along the way. Good actions > good intentions.

 

[Appletonred]

According to Al Jazeera the offer from Qatar to buy Utd is an undisclosed one, probably best to ignore the British media until this is officially done.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

That’s his own fault though. Why hasn’t he made any mention of debt in his press briefings?

They draft up a statement where they say meaningless soundbites about progressive ownership and returning the club to Manchester. But they know what United fans care most about with ownership is not saddling the club with crippling debts, so why say nothing about it?

Because he's signed an NDA and the vast majority of the things you're reading that are being 'leaked' are in fact total nonsense and made up by journalists trying to get in on the biggest story in football right now.

He's trying to buy the club from the Glazers not the fans ultimately.

We've just got to hope that if he wins he has a desire for us to be the best club in the world again.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Tbh I don't even care if he's coming to make money, just as long as we see investment in the club's infrastructure and sporting success along the way. Good actions > good intentions.

That's fair and I agree.

 

[hobbers]

Because he's signed an NDA and the vast majority of the things you're reading that are being 'leaked' are in fact total nonsense and made up by journalists trying to get in on the biggest story in football right now.

He's trying to buy the club from the Glazers not the fans ultimately.

We've just got to hope that if he wins he has a desire for us to be the best club in the world again.

An NDA doesn't stop him mentioning debt just like it didnt stop him mentioning plans to invest. Jassim's first statement was committing to a no debt purchase. United's current debt is in the public domain, absolutely nothing stopping Ratcliffe saying he would aim to make the club debt free during his tenure.

 

[glazed]

Liverpool ran City close the last few years and Assna but for the choke would have pipped them this year, on smaller budgets than us.
... This nihilistic bullshit about not being able to compete with oil money doesn’t cut it, and we already did it when we were ran by better people.

City are about to win their 5th title in 6 seasons. They may well take the treble. Get a clue.

This doesn’t sound like a business focused on profitability to me…

And yet it is.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

An NDA doesn't stop him mentioning debt just like it didnt stop him mentioning plans to invest. Jassim's first statement was committing to a no debt purchase. United's current debt is in the public domain, absolutely nothing stopping Ratcliffe saying he would aim to make the club debt free during his tenure.

He hasn't said either way though tbf. People only assuming because he hasn't it isn't good news.

Like I have said previously he could well have a plan for the debt. We just don't know.

 

[Plant0x84]

Absolutely embarrassingly juvenile stuff from anyone speaking like this.

Damn! HarryP laying the smack down on your Qatari candy asses!

Spoiler

 

[Plant0x84]

The more I’ve thought about it I’m okay with either outcome. I think both take the club in a better direction.

Wow! You skipped right through bargaining and depression straight to acceptance! Well done, good for you.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

City are about to win their 5th title in 6 seasons. They may well take the treble. Get a clue.

We won 5 titles in 7 seasons, missed out on one by 1 point and another by GD, against oil money teams, when we had the best league manager in the world.

They have the best league manager in the world, when they didn’t, it was 2 titles in 8 years for them.

The ones not having a clue are those who actively twerk for oil money without realizing it won’t solve all your problems.

 

[Denis79]

If after all this the best we can do is Jim teamin up with Glazers, it will be quite a damning set of circumstances.

Haha was thinking the same

 

[Plant0x84]

This is a terrible post, and I cant become a verified user?! You are just assuming they would want to clear the debt over time, they flippin wont.
There is tax deductibles, share holders to please first. Then there is extra debt from sorting out the stadium, or even better building a new one.

Man City have got to where they are by paying for the best of everything, from Cleaning Staff to Manager.

We will be sitting around watching Newcastle, Man City, probably Liverpool and Spurs when they are sold winning everything, whilst we go the same way as Nice.

But hey at least we will have that proper Club status, even though we are owned by a greedy corporation.

Your whole argument fall down at the bolder part. Do some research.

 

[Berbaclass]

Wow! You skipped right through bargaining and depression straight to acceptance! Well done, good for you.

I just want it to be over really so it doesn't impact next season. Would really hate that!

 

[Berbaclass]

Interesting

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[Plant0x84]

IIRC an awful lot of people were pissed off we didn't get Morata.

 

[devilish]

I have a feeling that this might not be over. The way things are being leaked there's a chance that the rats will push for a next round of bidding or else are taunting the sheikh to up his offer.

 

[Plant0x84]

feck the glazers. Hope they catch gonorrhea.

Probably already got it from the hookers on Epstein Island (allegedly)

 

[Spoony]

Damn! HarryP laying the smack down on your Qatari candy asses!

Spoiler

Please tell me you're not a Yank.

 

[Plant0x84]

Why would you feck them if they had gonorrhoea?

My understanding was he has gonorrhoea and is gonna feck the Glazers in the hope of passing it on to them.

Ffs

 

[Berbaclass]

Probably already got it from the hookers on Epstein Island (allegedly)

Them and Mikel Arteta

 

[UnitedSofa]

Please tell me you're not a Yank.

Racist much?

 

[Berbaclass]

Racist much?

It's okay they love being referred to as yanks

 

[HarryP]

Interesting

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We already know that they've offered an undisclosed fee to buy the club and we also know that the undisclosed fee values the club less than the INEOS bid does (credible journalists briefed by RAINE sources)

So it isn't particularly interesting at all.

 

[Syphon Wallet]

Nobody has a clue what's going on , they all seem to be making it up , and vary wildy on supposed facts and figures.

I'm pretty sure the media narrative will switch back to Qatar being in pole position soon, they like to switch this narrative regularly to regenerate the clicks/interest

 

[Berbaclass]

We already know that they've offered an undisclosed fee to buy the club and we also know that the undisclosed fee values the club less than the INEOS bid does (credible journalists briefed by RAINE sources)

So it isn't particularly interesting at all.

Like your thoughts then

 

[Spoony]

Racist much?

Yep. Properly.

 

[Plant0x84]

I thought it was common knowledge that he would be taking on additional debt to fund this purchase. I am not sure if they have 3b+ cash lying around or liquidating any asset for this. Was it not called out in his PR that any additional debt would not be on United's books? Why say that unless there is a debt component to this purchase.

I haven’t seen it reported ANYWHERE that his bid is debt funded. It is reported that he has arranged finance to cover the current debt, and I would assume infrastructure improvement would also be debt financed - again not confirmed. I would be very surprised if the whole lot is borrowed - I love to see this confirmed one way or another.

 

[NWRed]

Can you stop spouting lies.

He never said he'd clear the debt in the first place and he's not using more debt to buy the club.

I never claimed he did say he'd clear the debt.

Here is Adam Crafton in The Athletic:

The Ratcliffe bid made no formal statement about debt but, behind the scenes, it has provided assurances that no “fresh debt” (ie, any money borrowed to acquire United) will be landed onto the club’s balance sheet and will instead be borne by INEOS.

I'll accept your apology anytime you wish.

 

[JagUTD]

Interesting

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Credible isn't the word I'd use for the Qatari Royal family's news outlet when reporting on themselves.

 

[redcucumber]

Racist much?

Americans aren't a race and yank is a relatively innocuous term. There's some very strange behaviours in here of some individuals arbitrarily and baselessly accusing others of racism and of being racist and it largely goes unchecked.

 

[roseguy64]

Devilish is a good poster. Emotions are running high.

He is? Wow. Not from what I've seen over the years but opinions I guess.

 

[Plant0x84]

A behemoth like United who never had any debt and was successful all those years suddenly getting burdened with debt was never an issue.

Yes. That’s exactly what is being argued. Well done.

 

[Chairman Steve]

INEOS will take this more seriously than Nice and Lausanne if they did end up being the owners. The spotlight will be intense on them. It wouldn’t surprise me if those two clubs were just dry runs into a much more ambitious project such as United.

They have been called the biggest company nobody has ever heard of at times, and them owning United would certainly put them on the map in terms of public recognition.They’re not going to continue the Glazer tradition of using us as a cash register. They are going to want to make United a major force in global sport again. It pushes their good public image up significantly and gives them that recognition of people saying ‘It’s that company that runs United. They seem good. I think I‘ll buy one of those Grenadier 4x4s because a lot of the stuff they do is good!’

They are a massively ambitious conglomerate who have seen and followed Red Bull’s strategy of sports marketing, involvement in sports and how they’ve grown as a company due to that.

I don’t think it’ll be a problem that INEOS can stump up the cash to make a good playing squad. It’s what their strategy is for the stadium, training grounds and other infrastructure is going to be, because theyre not an oil state with a lot to spend. They’re a conglomerate who do have the money to do it but they’re not going to plough all of their capital in what will probably be their crown jewel sporting project. They’ve still got to run their main petrochemical business and other businesses too.

It is much easier to tell people your dreams will come true when you have a money pit and no other obligations like the Qatar bid is.