what about the boys?
Transgender Athletes
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That part isn't true. The reality of the matter is that we don't know how puberty blockers affect kids and we don't know if the potential effects are reversible. We are using actual kids as guinea pigs.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/treatment/
It's what the kids what, it helps their mental health, and if they decide later on they fecked up, it is reversed. I see no problem in that. These things are followed by professionals, kids don't do it on their living room if they're bored because the wifi is off.
if you really honestly take this mean stream media shit seriously, your lost.
Same thing. I focus on transgender girls because that's normally the focus of these discussions, but all I say applies to both.
My 2 kids want cola ice pops one day and strawberry the next day, I’m their dad, it’s my responsibility to say feck off and leave me alone.
I'm not a doctor, so I won't get into this debate in any serious way. I don't have the knowledge for it. Plenty of places say they are reversible, but anyway.
They work as a treatment that probably saves countless lives.
Where do you get your information from about this topic? Care to share some links?
I'm sure plenty of parents of kids who committed suicide over this are really happy they had your mindset.
So - for argument's sake, you would have no issue if a school authority made a wheelchair bound female basketball team play against an able bodied female team?
Says who?
And again, they might be both women with regard to gender, but not necessarily in a biological sense.
You don't seem to have a firm grasp on school sports then. There is a mix of competitive and recreational sports in schools.
You keep repeating that there will be no options for these children to take part in any sporting activity, but this is blatantly false when recreational sport (and mandatory physical education) will always be there. I'd wager the majority of any cohort do not participate in competitive sports inside or outside of their school environment.
Competitive sports (including those in schools) will always be at least somewhat exclusionary. Interest in a sport is not enough to necessitate an individual's participation in a competitive version of it.
Additionally, there are plenty of schools where, for a variety of reasons (including a lack of numbers), certain sports are simply not on the table for their pupils.
It's not perfect, but these things seldom are.
Anecdotally, my primary school used to beg boys to take part in netball because not enough girls were interested to even run proper practice sessions, let alone play competitively against other schools.
There were also girls (in my opinion, unfairly) "banned" from playing football after a certain age because it was no longer considered safe for them to play with boys, but a severe lack of girls teams in the area meant either quitting or travelling an obscene distance to find a new team, unless they were talented enough to be picked up by a proper academy.
I have a reasonable amount of experience with junior football coaching, and particularly in the younger age groups, almost every club is well oversubscribed in terms of interest versus the number of available spaces on each team, and this includes clubs with as many as six teams in an age category. These clubs will be almost guaranteed to see a fall in interest and participation as the teams progress through the age groups, and despite a wealth of interested parents/children at the start, there will not be a replacement rate of new participants as the years go by. This, coupled with playing-squad numbers increasing through the age categories until they reach 11-a-side will often mean teams "merging" and in a lot of these cases, some children will be "cut" from the team. However, this doesn't stop these children from playing in a recreational capacity.
Simply put, not all school or junior sports are about "inclusion, team spirit and friendship". They will be a core principle behind a lot of junior sports, but will not be at the forefront of competitive junior sports, where fairness of competition will be far more of a concern.
America in particular, feed their kids pills. Bad behaviour, give them a pill.
We are now saying to a boy, *oh u are a girl, ok I will go get the knife*
Can’t concentrate, pill. Our kids are OUR kids, yes I have no doubt mixed up gender is real but surgery at 10 or 11…. feck me it’s barbaric.
What kind of nonsense is this?
So no links then?
Sorry to double quote you, but you've definitely referenced "plenty of studies" without actually providing any sources for these for some of your claims around puberty blockers and other related issues.
I'm interested in seeing these because my understanding is that there is a severe lack of studies on these issues and it's one of the major talking points for those opposed to children being medicalised too soon. One of the biggest criticisms and something that is essentially a scandal surrounding the UK's Tavistock Clinic is a lack of record keeping and a lack of supporting studies for the medical pathways they've been placing children on.
Inappropriate Behavior
Shit they wanted bubblegum?
Do you think excluding a kid because he's not good enough is the same as excluding a kid because of who they are? I mean, that's the crux of the matter.
I'm not arguing a kid banned from the school team will never be able to play sports again, I'm saying it's cruel to ban people based on who they are and it goes against what I believe should be the goals of sports in school.
Links to what? The internet is not god!
Very sad trolling on such a serious topic, especially to a post talking about children killing themselves. Anyway, you're a spurs fan, so I guess you're already being punished.
A question from an obvious troll? Really?
OK I will pretend you're really dumb for a minute. No, mate, having girls in wheelchairs competing against girls who are not on wheelchairs shouldn't happen. Sigh...
That's a really cool point!
They're too young to transition in any way and also if they don't transition that young, their growing advantages will stop them playing competitive sport.
If you have a child you know what they fell, it’s in you, even miles away you know. My kids are happy and if they needed to talk to me i would discuss it openly without any sign or feelinf of shame. You are posting like we shouldn’t have a discussion or understanding. You come across that this should be a normal thing to happen to a child. A kid wanting to transgender isn’t normal, but that doesn’t mean it’s a bad thing, but u need to understand we aren’t talking about changing a car here.
You're trolling, so I'm not replying to you anymore.
An obvious troll? I've literally never interacted with that poster on the forum before so whether he's a troll or not, it'll go over my head.
I'm assuming you're saying no because of the inherent advantage a person has over someone wheelchair bound in a game such as basketball. This same logic can be extrapolated to trans women in women sports re: there are inherent differences you can't get away from.
Im certainly not, if my kid came to me and said I wanna change gender at 11, I said yes it’s on me if he comes back in 5 years and says why did you let me do that? I’m responsible for them till they are 18, you make it sound like an oil change
That's not a point but a question.That's a really cool point!
They're too young to transition in any way and also if they don't transition that young, their growing advantages will stop them playing competitive sport.
Just look at his posts in this last page of this thread. Pretty obvious, but I fell for it at first, so yeah...
I'm saying no because it would be impractical, not only because of the infrastructure necessary but also because the rules of the game are different. It would create a ridiculous scenario on the pitch with two teams playing two different sports.
Including a teenage transgender girl in a basketball team has nothing to do with the scenario you made up in your mind.
Ok, do you have a child?
Silence….
That exclusion is going to have to happen at some point because (in a large number of, if not most sports) biological males cannot compete on a level playing field with biological females.
We can have a separate debate about the ideological framework behind youth sports and whether inclusion should always trump fairness of competition, but as I said, that's a separate debate.
Ultimately, in competitive sports, I will always value fairness of competition over inclusion. In answer to your question, I don't believe excluding a child based on ability (or lack thereof) is the same as excluding them "because of who they are", but based on the more specific meaning of "who they are" in this instance, it being the same isn't relevant.
Anecdotally again, and I don't know if it's changed (or if it was indeed different in other areas), but when I was playing football as a kid, the cut off was U13s, which in our league was the second season of 11-a-side, after which girls were no longer allowed to compete with the boys for safety reasons.
There was a girl in our league who was a supremely talented footballer and did earn a fair number of international caps up to around U19s, and earned a full scholarship to a US university based on our ability. In U11s, the final season of "small" sided football, she stood out as a star player. In U12s she was able to hold her own for the most part, but I wouldn't say she shone in the same way, and by U13s she was just another player. I don't agree with her exclusion because I believe in her instance she'd have still been competitive in U14s, even if she'd had to move to her club's "B" side. However, she went to one of the few academy sides for U14s and found herself to once again be a star player. The flip side of this is if you'd dropped almost any of the boys into the same U14s side, they'd have probably also shone as a star player. This is essentially the crux of the issue and you don't seem to be acknowledging this.
Additionally, as you've since asked someone else for links to support their post(s), I'd like to repeat my request for the studies you referred to earlier.
Have to say much better put than my Cider induced ramble. I think safety is key in the sport debate, my younger boy, about 3 years younger than his older very slim sister, is a bruiser and through no fault of his own puts his sister on her arse. Then laughs after it.
That’s the situation in our local underage league as of this season. There’s been a huge growth in girls teams over the last few years so girls don’t have to play with boys the way they might have had to do in the past. But eventually there comes a point where the physical disadvantage is just too much.
On a side note, a lot of girls coaches encourage the best girls to play with boys as long as possible and not switch to a girls team too early. They think playing with/against boys is great for their development.
That's my experience coaching too. Lost a very talented girl one season because she wanted to try the girls team, but she was back I think two seasons later because she thought it was too easy. She was gone again by the winter though because she got snatched up by an academy and they didn't want her risking injury.
The path to top level football (well, college scholarships anyway) does seem to be a bit easier for girls. Presumably because of the much smaller talent pool. So you can understand why they’d be protective about allowing players who are born male to compete.
Yeah once kids are more developed and mature they would understand the needs of professional sports.
They don't need to be developed or mature to understand puberty blockers though, that's fine at 9 years old..
You're right, kids shouldn't go to doctors at all, since they don't understand the intricacies of medicine. What a great argument, touche.
Yeah I agreed in this thread that eventually there might be a need for that exclusion if we reach a more professionalized environment. It has to be debated, probably sport by sport, but that's a different topic. My point is that point shouldn't be kids in school, that's all. All the bills being passed in the US are banning little kids, it's ridiculous.
If by competitive sports you mean college sports or professional sports I agree, fairness is more important. But in a country like america, where you have 300.000 kids aged 13-17 who are transgender, a general ban is unacceptable in my view, even if we have to relegate fairness to second place.
If she won so consistently why was she ranked only #44 in the 2021/22 season for example? Did she not participate in other events and so didn’t score enough points? Genuine question.
https://www.swimcloud.com/country/usa/swimmers/?rank=5826386&gender=F&season_id=25&page=2
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