People keep saying this without actually offering suggestions as to who. Who do you think we should be going for in that bracket?
Rasmus Højlund | Signed for United
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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KaNe aNd OsImHeN!!
Kieffer Moore obvs
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For the umpteenth time, it’s a projection of where he’ll get to, not what he is right now!
So with the budget in mind. Who are the better options you speak of?
He's a 20 year old striker who wasnt even a nailed starter last season for Atalanta. He got 9 goals and 2 assists, while he's promising he's not a worldclass talent like Mbappe, Bellingham, Pedri, etc. If we pay anything above 40M will be too much.
No one as such but you can't tell me that we would have ended interest had the takeover been sorted in time for this summer,unfortunately now it may not even happen so need to look at a plan B
Get ready for 3 weeks of updates about edging, negotiating and discussing
So you think world class talents like a younger Mbappé, Bellingham or Pedri go for €60m?
Too much of a flat track bully to risk that much on him. He's more Nunez than Haaland.
I don't think we have enough data to back that type of claim up. Which one could argue is an issue in and of itself.
Right.. but if Hojlund was a wordclass talent as you say Mbappe, Bellingham, Pedri are, how much would he be going for? Because it would be well above 40m, well above 60/70m infact. So I don't really see your point. Bellingham just sold for 133mill Euro's (with addons) and Mbappe if not going for free would I guess in the 150-200 range, Pedri Barcelona won't sell but his release clause is 1 billion..
I'm not really sure i'm seeing your point other than you clearly not understanding the current market we are in
I'd take Haller if possible.
I’m taking out the Austrian league here and I’m seeing 18 goal involvements in 37 games last season so 1 in 2. I say 37 games but it’s 2151 minutes so it’s 18 goal involvements in just under 24 games worth of minutes. Im not even counting his record internationally in that.
If he played for West Ham we would be begging for his signature
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bUt BuT 9 gOaLs iN a SeAsOn!!
That's the thing. At 20 only early bloomers have better records, while there is no guarantee that he turns into a superstar his records over the past couple of years suggest that he is on track to at least be a very good striker. The latest fees are excessive but the profile of the player and his current level are perfectly fine.
and getting closer and closer and really close
Likely true but in the limited data you do have:
Against teams in the top 8 in Serie A (league and cup): 12 appearances, 1 goal and 2 assists.
Against teams in the bottom 12 in Serie A (league and cup): 22 appearances, 9 goals and 2 assists.
Internationally, he has lit up Finland (54th in world FIFA rankings) and Kazakhstan (104th) while not scoring, in very limited minutes, against Croatia and France.
I wouldn't hold any of this too strongly against him (he's very young after all) but there are real questions about his ability to do the business against Premier League defenders, which on the whole are a lot more like those at the top 8 sides in Italy than those in the bottom 12 sides.
From just the replies in this thread by some, I had a mental image of him being another Lukaku like technically poor player, etc. Watched his videos for the first time and I am honestly very impressed.
His playing style reminds me of Rooney a bit - doesn't have the amazing abilities of Rooney the teenager who could legit have been amongst the goats but his potential is similar to the actual career of Rooney, i.e become a tier-1 striker for a period of 5-6 seasons in the world. Hojlund is technically well rounded, physically strong and seems to have a burst of acceleration (not as much as Rooney though). He would gel well with Rashford I feel. The usual caveat applies about his age being a risk in terms of being able to convert potential into actual consistent performance, especially in a more difficult league.
His playing style reminds me of Rooney a bit - doesn't have the amazing abilities of Rooney the teenager who could legit have been amongst the goats but his potential is similar to the actual career of Rooney, i.e become a tier-1 striker for a period of 5-6 seasons in the world. Hojlund is technically well rounded, physically strong and seems to have a burst of acceleration (not as much as Rooney though). He would gel well with Rashford I feel. The usual caveat applies about his age being a risk in terms of being able to convert potential into actual consistent performance, especially in a more difficult league.
This post just came out of a coma. Wham bars aren't 10p anymore.
Beast on FM with the updates applied. Banging them in for fun up front for United. Can’t wait to see him doing the same when he signs.
My only concerns with him are the goal return,however he will have better players around him and maybe his control of the ball
Thats exactly why I think we should move on. We hurt ourselves making these kind of deals we got a reputation of overpaying for every single signing. We need to be taken seriously the way to do it is set a price if the other team doesnt agree with it then move on to the next target.I agree, but Atalanta appear to want 70m eur
Obviously he's not worth half that.
They aren't getting €70m for him
True, but I don't think that means he'll be a flat track bully for the rest of his career. He might score more against lower quality, but most strikers do. Given his age and the obvious qualities he has I think he'd score more here in a better team than he did for Atalanta. Yes, the defenders here might be better in general, but he'll also have better teammates around him. It's not a given that he'll score more but I, for one, hope we'll get to find that out.
I know people will baulk at the fee but given the limited options and his potential I really hope we get this signing done.
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Look up how many goals Cavani scored against the top teams at 20/21 while playing for Palermo.
You could also do the same for Osimhen, who does not have a great record against the top teams either, but for some reason labelled a world class striker.
Atalanta aren't an insanely creative team that they were a couple of years ago, so of course he's going to find it harder to score against teams who dominate Atalanta. Really goes without saying.
Did you also look up how many minutes he played against those top teams, or did you assume he played 90 mins against all of them?
It's the football discussion equivalent of saying "COVID doesn't exist", and when they're asked for evidence they reply with "you can find it on Google, I'm not going to do it for you."
Or "I'm no scout! Ask our scouting team, if it even exists!"
Im not talking about current Mbappe, Bellingham or Pedri. Im talking about them before they made the first move. Pedri moved to barca for 17M, Bellingham moved to Dortmund for 30M. Mbappe was a level above so he was worth much more for PSG clearly.
If he's a flat track bully then he's just what we need.
In the bigger games we already know that Rashford and Antony (and maybe Garnacho) usually deliver.
I'm fed up of holding 1-0 wins at home vs Crystal Palace and company.
In the bigger games we already know that Rashford and Antony (and maybe Garnacho) usually deliver.
I'm fed up of holding 1-0 wins at home vs Crystal Palace and company.
It's true that most strikers run up numbers against poor teams. Your characterization of Atalanta is wrong though, they aren't as good as in the past but still were the third highest scoring side in Serie A and play at a very high tempo. They're not regularly getting dominated by teams in the top 8.
Hojlund is a good young prospect who like many 20-year-old players still has a lot of rough edges, which top level defenders can take advantage of. You can see it in some of his every touch videos. Nothing wrong with that (its going to be normal for any young striker except the truly precocious ones) but important to acknowledge him for what he is.
I think we weren’t involved in the story ala Ferguson in England. We saw him score here and there and show his class so posted about its Ferguson again, where did he come from, etc. He’d come on as a sub and you’d see him change a game and that sticks with you.
In Italy we aren’t seeing that so it’s stats that just leave you cold
Neither Pedri nor Bellingham were world class talents when they moved.
Bellingham is a little younger than Højlund and was recently sold to Real Madrid for a potential €133m deal, so I don't know why you talk about his transfer to Dortmund when he was 16.
Some of the takes here make very little sense. To not be particularly enthused by the signing because we were hoping for a top striker is one thing. I think we have all been hoping for an established, top class 9 in their prime as we have lacked that for so long. So I get that frustration. Hojlund is not that and probably won't develop into that for quite a number of seasons. As people like to say, he is a project - but one we hope can contribute in the short term. There is no world where it can be guaranteed that Hojlund is a major contributor next season. I think the conservative guess would be that he'll offer something Weghorst and an injured Martial can't but beyond that who knows.
But the arguments put forward around the negative aspects of this signing are pretty weak when you actually get into the detail and context of it.
For example, it's too much and we should go for someone else. So who are these various other strikers that are a) more appealing and b) better value? You can go cheap and get what you pay for on some journeyman or totally unheard of prospect, or you can go big and throw your name into an Osimhen hat, but if the budget isn't there it isn't there to do that. There is no "established, cheap" market for a striker. There just ain't. So what I want to know is who are the strikers that fit into our reported budget that people will advocate for ahead of Hojlund? That's a far more useful discussion than simply moaning about price because it frames the discussion within the parameters the club actually works within. Not vague feelings.
On price. Why is it such poor value according to some? He's just turned 20, had a promising season in a major league and scored a goal a game for his national team. It's not like he has been playing in the Latvian league. What are we really expecting to get a player like that for? Buttons? I think the fact Atalanta unearthed him and took the initial risk should be rewarded. That's the way it works in football. Those that go for unheralded players end up making a huge profit if they work, but they'll sign 5 or 6 others that don't ever make it to top clubs and several that are complete duds. Is he being priced like a major superstar? No he's not, they're starting at 70 million euros probably with a view to sealing a deal around 55-60million euros, which is not a fee for a 20 year old that is considered an elite talent in Europe. If Hojlund comes to United and scores 15 league goals, he's probably adding a third to that valuation immediately. So that tells me this fee is very much in the ballpark and gives room for it to go either way, it is not a premium valuation. If he scores 10 league goals in the next couple seasons he is probably not going to be a loss maker for us, and if he becomes what ETH would envisage then he is a rare breed of 9 and you can put any figure on it.
For me it's quite clear that most aspects of this transfer would be a positive. If we can negotiate it down it fits into the budget. He's young, very talented, great physically which prepares him for our league. The manager has shown he can improve players and he is getting raw ingridients for a 9.
But the arguments put forward around the negative aspects of this signing are pretty weak when you actually get into the detail and context of it.
For example, it's too much and we should go for someone else. So who are these various other strikers that are a) more appealing and b) better value? You can go cheap and get what you pay for on some journeyman or totally unheard of prospect, or you can go big and throw your name into an Osimhen hat, but if the budget isn't there it isn't there to do that. There is no "established, cheap" market for a striker. There just ain't. So what I want to know is who are the strikers that fit into our reported budget that people will advocate for ahead of Hojlund? That's a far more useful discussion than simply moaning about price because it frames the discussion within the parameters the club actually works within. Not vague feelings.
On price. Why is it such poor value according to some? He's just turned 20, had a promising season in a major league and scored a goal a game for his national team. It's not like he has been playing in the Latvian league. What are we really expecting to get a player like that for? Buttons? I think the fact Atalanta unearthed him and took the initial risk should be rewarded. That's the way it works in football. Those that go for unheralded players end up making a huge profit if they work, but they'll sign 5 or 6 others that don't ever make it to top clubs and several that are complete duds. Is he being priced like a major superstar? No he's not, they're starting at 70 million euros probably with a view to sealing a deal around 55-60million euros, which is not a fee for a 20 year old that is considered an elite talent in Europe. If Hojlund comes to United and scores 15 league goals, he's probably adding a third to that valuation immediately. So that tells me this fee is very much in the ballpark and gives room for it to go either way, it is not a premium valuation. If he scores 10 league goals in the next couple seasons he is probably not going to be a loss maker for us, and if he becomes what ETH would envisage then he is a rare breed of 9 and you can put any figure on it.
For me it's quite clear that most aspects of this transfer would be a positive. If we can negotiate it down it fits into the budget. He's young, very talented, great physically which prepares him for our league. The manager has shown he can improve players and he is getting raw ingridients for a 9.
I disagree. I think he is worth half thatI agree, but Atalanta appear to want 70m eur
Obviously he's not worth half that.
Neither Hojlund atm.
Superb post,should be pinned
Whilst those questions exist you can also point out that at the same age Osimhen couldn't hit a barn door for Wolfsburg and was shipped out to the Belgian league where he managed 12 goals in a season mostly as a starter. RH has 9 goals in Serie A, primarliy from the bench and so arguably is ahead at this respective stage in his career. Of course nothing is a given but you would expect a 20 year old to get better and a 20 year old who fits the style of play we are working towards and will be coached by ETH should get a lot better.
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