There are so many things to unpick. I would just sit back and counter attack. Win some games and get the confidence back.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
I think many United fans just overrated the guy. Don't get me wrong, he's a good/decent manager with potential to be a top one but he has a long long way to go and everything to prove; the posts on here claiming he should "just walk away" as if he's bigger than the club with multiple league titles and CLs under his belt was ludicrous.
I really like the guy and was hoping Barca would hire him ahead of Xavi, hope he can turn it around at United.
I really like the guy and was hoping Barca would hire him ahead of Xavi, hope he can turn it around at United.
No. We really were. We were absolute bobbins after the penalty that shouldn’t have been given - but we were the better side for large parts before it including the opening 10 minutes of the second half.
Only a 12 year old extrapolates a season from 6 games in, without looking at any context or managerial goodwill build up prior.
Well that or someone with the logic of a 12 year old. You can take the latter if it makes you feel better.
5 games give or take to turn this around. Otherwise the writing will be on the wall.
Atleast there were a few positives tonight. Maybe with players returning from injury we can start to improve.
Though my biggest concern is his signings seem very bad more times than not. Can't build a team if that's the case
Atleast there were a few positives tonight. Maybe with players returning from injury we can start to improve.
Though my biggest concern is his signings seem very bad more times than not. Can't build a team if that's the case
I think we have been starved of success that any positivity is going to be jumped on.
He is the coach that most fans wanted and was the first sensible or logical decision the board has made since who knows when???
He needs to be given time and a working structure like he had at Ajax and what most modern football clubs have at present.
Congratulations to Ten Hag for winning the 20 minutes performance trophy. The other 70 minutes don't matter.
What? I mean we have a fecking budget. Mount was considered his first priority: so we got him. FDJ never wanted to come but we chased him all summer anyways. Todibo to replace Maguire sure but Maguire refused to leave.
Pretending like he DOESNT have full control over targets is just strange. But even then he can’t have every fecking player he wants no matter the price.
Who has done that though? The horrendous away record extends into last season. The terrible start to the season is the second time he has done it. The heavy goal conceding away from home and the lightweight midfield setup were massive issues last season too. Some of the results last season and the drop off after the cup final were really, really bad. There were some historical lows in there.
Your arguments about me being 12 doesn’t excuse any of that, and inventing that I am claiming that issues have only been present in the first 6 games of this season is a strawman argument.
There were clear and serious reasons to be concerned last season. The summer and this start have just added to them and confirmed doubts that were already present.
He needed to have a strong start after the problems last season and anyone arguing that this start is anything better than awful, are kidding themselves.
Mate he finished 3rd, won a cup and had the most clean sheets last season. Anyone doubting his pedigree 6 games into this when he has a plethora of injuries has the logic of a 12 year old.
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This is while playing in the Europa a whole season. Utterly embarrassing.
No Kane, no Cucurella, no Kim, no RB. Don't act like he gets what he wants either is my point.
We concede too many goals and chances. We couldn't even control the game at home to Wolves. This will continue until ETH, who apparently is a good coach according to some, can shore up our CM which is too weak defensively. Then we have Shaw out injured and Rashford who does not always track back. I doubt Mount is the solution so are we pinning our hopes on a last day loan signing? How befitting of our club.
At least West Ham has a worse record, so we don't have to hear from that guy who wants us to bring back Moyes.
I don't think we're there yet as we're losing on xg too but recall some of those excuses for Potter at Brighton and also Chelsea. There eventually gets to a point where being unlucky a lot of the time probably indicates something is fundamentally wrong.
I still hope and thing he can lead us to a good season but think the angle of us being unlucky in games is getting overstated.
He should be given time at least until the end of the season. I think he could be the final victim of the Glazer Apocalypse, before the sale is done, because he doesn't have a proper football structure above him and arrived at an utter mess of a club, on and off the pitch. ETH is facing too many problems now(Sancho, Antony, Injuries, lack of general quality of the squad...), but he's not helped himself with his poor talent evaluation and recruitment.
That will be his undoing, even though it isn't really his fault, for the most part(lack of competent scouts and Director of Football).
That will be his undoing, even though it isn't really his fault, for the most part(lack of competent scouts and Director of Football).
We've been poor since the league cup final so since Feb. That's a long time now with various players in the first team. There is no real excuse to be consistently this defensively naive since then. I can't help but think many managers would've sorted this out by now. Are his systems and tactics too complicated for them? Or are the players simply not good enough? Whatever is is, I'm baffled by how long this poor form is dragging on. If he can drag us out of this I'll be amazed. Not really much to base hope on though. He's not Pep is he. That Ajax team a few years ago was very good to watch. That's all I wanted! Even something slightly resembling it!
Somehow?
Three of our first choice centre halves (one of them being our first-choice left back to boot) are injured. One of our starting central midfielders is injured and the guy replacing him doesn't have the stamina to track back and cover the gaping hole from which we've conceded four goals over the past two games. Our starting right winger has been accused of crimes which has forced us to send him away due to media pressure, and our only striker who we think we can depend on hasn't been ready to play a full 90 minute game yet, which has forced us to play our best winger as a striker for a couple of games, while another of our wingers thinks he can arrive whenever he wants to team meetings, and then when ending up banished from the team he, instead on knuckling down, is seen playing FIFA while his teammates are playing a big game. Not to mention that out of the six games we've played, four have been against very strong opponents.
I really do wonder why we've had a poor start to the season.
Maybe Murtough read the list upside down
You keep saying 12 year old. Just because someone doesn’t agree with your assessment , doesn’t mean you are the mature one in the room. It doesn’t make the criticisms any less valid.
He has no pedigree at a top club in a top league, so not sure where that comes from.
He had some good points last season, but a lot of questions about certain decisions and insisting on certain players and setting up his team in certain ways.
Its been a horrendous start and the majority of fans will now have more questions than answers, to varying degrees.
I have seen enough to believe that he is tactically naive, can’t get and keep players fit and has made several serious mistakes in building his squad.
I don’t have confidence in him, and it’s fine to have serious doubts. He has provided more than enough evidence to have them.
It's more the general logic you've used to get to your conclusion. I genuinely think it's broken and child like.
Shhhhhhh, don’t post stats like that! Are you 12 years old trying to use logic and valid information to make justified criticisms?
Wouldn't say worse but we're definitely just as bad. Rangnick era was the worst I've seen us we're not that bad yet.
It's just injuries and bad luck, probably
I don’t really care what you think about me. You have no arguments apart from infantil jibes about age that I last heard in school. One of those people who genuinely think they are more intelligent than they are. Sad.
Maybe he isn't that good after all. feck.
No idea why the mods constantly let him get away with insulting posters and the pathetic strawman arguments. Everyone who doesn't think ETH is the best thing since sliced bread is a 12 year old.It’s frustrating. I am genuinely worried about the club/team, and the direction things are going. There are so many questions now, but apparently, we are immature for asking them.
It is starting to feel like Ole all over again.
Do you believe the bolded or is it just what you think the club will do? Sacking a manager after what, 11 games(?) while factoring in all the extenuating circumstances is insane to me.
I have no arguments? I said he won a cup and got top 3 wirh the most clean sheets in the league. I said that earns him goodwill to set things right beyond just the first 6 games when most his team is injured.
Your reply is some knee jerk bullshit talking about how he made a bad start, as though that somehow vindicates your basis over mine, which is evaluating him as a whole.
You want to look at fragments and cry over it, be my guest. But it's broken logic and I'm just calling it out.
Not expecting the best from the team that has almost whole team of injured players doesn't mean having low standards, it means having common sense. So yeah, he was right. A "car crash" of a post.
You are not any more mature mate just because you choose to believe, despite ever increasing evidence to the contrary.
The car crash are the fans who don’t hold the club to a greater standard and let us lurch forward with no direction and the wrong people in key positions.
All summer to prepare and not one good performance in the first 6 games. It’s genuinely shocking.
It is madness how some people don't want to see some things, and when they get mentioned, it is called out as "excuses". Fecking clown fiesta.
I said it earlier but we are getting 2,3,4 goals stuffed past us every game. We cant just lose most weeks and ‘give the manager more time’. Relegation fodder dont even do that.
I dont know atm - the ‘injuries’ excuse doesnt explain how the injured players that will in hypothesis ‘come to the rescue’ were pony in the first few games. We’ve got a Mason Greenwood 2.0 and he's defintely lost several players in the dressing room - likely Martial, Maguire, Mctominay who we said have no future at the club but didnt let go and Sancho.
if he can salvage anything out of the season from here thats an achievement
I was pretty disappointed not to see Hannibal today. I can’t see how he would have brought less than McT. He can do all the ugly stuff but he’s gifted on top of that. He’s a bit of a powder keg but there was nothing to lose.
I am sure you feel like you are doing God’s work. Also, saying “he got top 3 and had clean sheets” is not a logical argument. It is two positive points against a plethora of questions. It doesn’t answer any of them.
I think it’s you that lacks the ability to do any sort of critical analysis, and as such, there isn’t much point replying to you any further.
Ignoring the worrying statistical trends and repetitive nature of the teams issues isn’t logical. Shouting “but he finished 3rd” isn’t an argument. You probably need to work on that.
Is it too much for some to acknowledge that our away form is a worry that ETH really needs sort out AND we've been hit hard with injuries and been very unlucky when it comes to 50/50 decisions since the Onana one on the first game of the season.
Try to see the whole picture not just whatever suits your agenda.
I’m with the other guy on this.
I mean, getting top three, winning the cup, clean sheets. These are all logical observations based in fact. Saying that they're not just makes you look a bit silly.
How do we know he can do that ? Are you basing it off his 70 minutes in total he's played for us in competitive games ?
Look there's nothing more I'd like to see than our youth players be important players for us. Unfortunately, in this forum and our fanbase as a whole seem to overrate them to no end, with no basis or proof other than a 10-20 min cameo or performances in the championship or the u23s. I'm sure if it was Mainoo and he was available he would've played a part, like Garnacho did. Unfortunately not every youth player in our ranks have the ability of a Mainoo or a Garnacho.
Why are the players so unfit? Why are the injuries happening so regularly?Not expecting the best from the team that has almost whole team of injured players doesn't mean having low standards, it means having common sense. So yeah, he was right. A "car crash" of a post.
It is madness how some people don't want to see some things, and when they get mentioned, it is called out as "excuses". Fecking clown fiesta.
Again, stop with the insults, it doesn’t make your argument any better or make you sound any more mature.
Try and open your mind and consider that issues like the ones you mentioned can easily be leveled at a coach who has us going into the season, for a second time, running significantly less than the opposition.
We aren’t fit and it’s his fault.
I mean, it's not really true. We were better for the first 20 minutes but as usual we couldn't take advantage. Onana threw one in his own net to give them momentum, and then the ref gave a soft pen to gift Bayern momentum.
xG figures I'm seeing are 2.54 vs 1.89 in Bayern's favour.
Criminal losses of possession from Eriksen and Bruno for 3rd and 4th goal are just typical of our team, just basic errors in retaining possession cost us.