Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

[AshRK]

A lot of them aren’t good enough to start for United but who are ‘these players’?

The only consistent starters in Ten Hags team that have played under previous managers are Rashford, Shaw, Varane, Bruno and Dalot. Are we saying ‘these players’ have turned everyone, including the players he’s signed, against him?

Every player. It's not just about the leaks but with their attitude and performances.

Also, the players who you have mentioned doesn't include players like Mctominay Martial Maguire Lindelof who were also present in the previous regime. I am not saying manager has to be completely excused but these players also have to be questioned.

 

[Laurencio]

I wouldn’t mind Ancelotti either. But the recruitment structure is essential, as are about 5 or 6 top players.

I absolutely agree with that. Ancelotti is pointless (well not entirely) if you don't have the recruitment structure to rebuild the squad properly.

 

[Dve]

Apologies, I was agreeing with you. I just wanted to emphasise the point, as the other poster seemed surprised that a random group of players aquired by random managers was an anomaly for a big club.

There are also many examples where the change of manager also comes with a change of style. There is not much Conte or Mourinho left in Tottenham, for instance.

Ten Hag said he wanted to make us the best transitional team in the world, though, which sounds like Ole. If he instead wanted us to play like Ajax, many of his signings make little sense. In the end, I'm a bit confused what Ten Hag actually wants with this team.

 

[crossy1686]

I agree that ETH hasn't shown enough with what he has at his disposal and he's spent poorly. But, I firmly believe it's time to get rid of a large portion of these players that have now been failures under multiple managers.

This likely won't be with ETH, but whoever comes in will need patience. Not blind patience though, obviously. We also need a proper sporting structure in place so that no manager ever again is allowed to handpick 400m worth of players. There honestly aren't very many I would keep, if I had my way.

But ‘these players’ haven’t failed under multiple managers. You don’t have to throw out the baby with the bath water whenever you sack a manager.

Ten Hags first choice 11 includes Rashford, Bruno, Shaw, Dalot and Varane. The rest are his players.

The rest aren’t good enough to start week in week out for United, you could argue, and they look shocking collectively when we have a lot of injuries. The problem is we all know this and yet the system we play doesn’t allow us to at least play to some of their strengths so they just look shit and it makes our good players look shit also. I’m not excusing the application but no matter how much running Rashford does, it won’t make McTomminay a better passer, or Martial’s knees start working.

I’d love 12 new players to come in but we also have to be careful with just exiling and clearing out players because we can end up in a worse position, as we’re finding out now with Ten Hags recruitments.

 

[Robbie Boy]

I absolutely agree with that. Ancelotti is pointless (well not entirely) if you don't have the recruitment structure to rebuild the squad properly.

Yup, we would manage to make an all time great look incompetent unless we sort the club out.

 

[hobbers]

Senior players with experience at other big clubs obviously Casemiro and Varane. No one else has experience at big clubs. Chelsea and Inter are small potatoes.

Obviously the feckless fraternity, Rashford Martial Sancho, were enraged by having to run in training.

Wonder if the other group of doubters are the English lads. Mount, Shaw, Maguire. Be hilarious if Mount or another ETH signing has already turned into another 'sack the manager to save us' roach.

 

[Robbie Boy]

There are also many examples where the change of manager also comes with a change of style. There is not much Conte or Mourinho left in Tottenham, for instance.

Ten Hag said he wanted to make us the best transitional team in the world, though, which sounds like Ole. If he instead wanted us to play like Ajax, many of his signings make little sense. In the end, I'm a bit confused what Ten Hag actually wants with this team.

You're talking about something completely different here. I think ETH needs to go. But, no one is going to have any success here with this random group of players aquired by multiple random managers. It just doesn't happen at successful sides. Should ETH have done better? Yes. Both of these things are true.

 

[Gavinb33]

People talking about Ancellotti being the Manchester United manager in 2023 feck me, we need to look forward not backwards

 

[honirelandboy]

Us signing Casemeiro and Arsenal signing Rice really sums up what’s wrong with the club. Even Ole wanted Rice but the club wouldn’t sign him and he would have been cheaper when Ole was there who also wanted him. You could also say Doku vs Anthony.

Why Scott is till starting for us is absolutely mind boggling after the money spent at the club . Mainoo and Rice would have having us sorted for a long time with Bruno. You could implement Bruno in that midfield like he does for Portugal.

 

[Redstain]

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Not sure I get Mitten, if Erik knows what's needed then why not produce on the basis of that knowledge ? A further transfer window can't signify the solution because some of the newer players are still underperforming and contributing to the teams demise.

So if the manager knows what's needed that's not relative to only signing XYZ new players, surely it's something viable to change now and not in the future.

 

[JagUTD]

Let's sack him and take bets on when the next guy will be sacked for the same reason because do we learn?

Do we feck! We're Man Utd, we haven't a clue!

 

[Manncunian]

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Knows what’s needed but can’t muster up just ONE away win against any team in the top 8 (at the time we play them) during his entire tenure at Manchester United.

Knows what’s needed indeed.

Did he also know what’s needed in the goalkeeping department??

 

[Oranges038]

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Didn't he say a while back the players weren't responding to him?

 

[VP89]

Didn't he say a while back the players weren't responding to him?

Aha no way, where?

 

[Leftback99]

Contracts ending this year:
Lindelof
Martial
Wan Bissaka
Evans
Heaton
Hannibal
Amrabat
Reguilon

All apart from Wan Bissaka (better than Dalot) should be gone this summer if we're going to get serious. Maybe Hannibal purely for numbers.

Then there's the 2025 expiry:
Maguire
McTominay
Varane
Eriksen
Van de beek
Diallo
Pellistri
Greenwood

I'd keep Maguire (we can't sell all of our CBs) and Eriksen for what it's worth. The rest should be going.

Casemiro and Sancho need to go. Same with Antony but we're probably stuck with him.

We're losing very little clearing out that lot other than squad numbers.

 

[crossy1686]

Aha no way, where?

One of the athletic podcasts, I think it’s on the first page of the Andy mitten thread

 

[Robbie Boy]

But ‘these players’ haven’t failed under multiple managers. You don’t have to throw out the baby with the bath water whenever you sack a manager.

Ten Hags first choice 11 includes Rashford, Bruno, Shaw, Dalot and Varane. The rest are his players.

The rest aren’t good enough to start week in week out for United, you could argue, and they look shocking collectively when we have a lot of injuries. The problem is we all know this and yet the system we play doesn’t allow us to at least play to some of their strengths so they just look shit and it makes our good players look shit also. I’m not excusing the application but no matter how much running Rashford does, it won’t make McTomminay a better passer, or Martial’s knees start working.

I’d love 12 new players to come in but we also have to be careful with just exiling and clearing out players because we can end up in a worse position, as we’re finding out now with Ten Hags recruitments.

I mean there's at least 6 players that have been around for 3 or 4 managers now. For a start, the majority of those need to go. On top of that, the likes of Maguire and AWB need to go. That's already a fair few, and there's others too that I would be reticent to keep.

Obviously we can't just annexe a whole squad in one go, nor am I advocating that. The new man will have to work with what he's left with, but over time, yeah I would be binning the majority of these off.

I asked earlier; has there been an instance in modern times where a club was successful with a squad full of random players that were handpicked by random managers? Leicester City. That's probably it. It's just not sustainable unless it's a well run club with a sporting structure who picks players and managers from a specific blueprint.

That doesn't mean that Ole, Jose or ETH shouldn't have played better football with the players at their disposal, but that's the thing, a properly run club wouldn't have picked a plethora of random managers with no commonalities and let them handpick random players that cost hundreds of millions. This isn't excusing ETH whatsoever, but the reality is, we haven't been run in a manner where we'll be successful for a long time now. That also needs to change.

 

[Sarni]

Knows what’s needed but can’t muster up just ONE away win against any team in the top 8 (at the time we play them) during his entire tenure at Manchester United.

Knows what’s needed indeed.

Did he also know what’s needed in the goalkeeping department??

Did you see us in the first 20 mins at Spurs though?

 

[VP89]

One of the athletic podcasts, I think it’s on the first page of the Andy mitten thread

Curious to know what he said. I'm sure he didnt mean it in a racial way

 

[Berbaclass]

Curious to know what he said. I'm sure he didnt mean it in a racial way

 

[DJ_21]

Why is it game over? These players are paid to do a job, loads of people hate their boss but can still put in a good days work.

They could just grow up, or if not then at least remain professional before they find employment elsewhere.

Ye because that’s what’s happened over the last few years when players have constantly thrown managers under the bus.

 

[crossy1686]

Curious to know what he said. I'm sure he didnt mean it in a racial way

Had to go back and read what you quoted because I thought I had got the wrong end of the stick in a massive way but the post seems pretty innocent.

Did you misread it and think he said the ‘black’ players weren’t listening to him?

 

[Robbie Boy]

Curious to know what he said. I'm sure he didnt mean it in a racial way

Racial? What?

 

[Laurencio]

Curious to know what he said. I'm sure he didnt mean it in a racial way

Back mate, not black.

 

[DJ_21]

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Of course he knows what’s needed. We know he’s got football Knowledge. Before he came there was tons of interviews with him speaking about tactics etc. but it’s a whole lot different putting it into action.

 

[Superden]

Of course he knows what’s needed. We know he’s got football Knowledge. Before he came there was tons of interviews with him speaking about tactics etc. but it’s a whole lot different putting it into action.

Proof is in the eating of said pudding. Newcastle game, tactically outwitted first half, didn't change a thing second half and they scored.

 

[Oranges038]

Aha no way, where?

Said it on a podcast a while back, there was a thread on it.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/andy-mitten-the-players-arent-responding-to-the-manager.479632/

Not sure how he can say that the players aren't responding to him, but now also say he knows what's needed.

 

[baskinginthesun]

Contracts ending this year:
Lindelof
Martial
Wan Bissaka
Evans
Heaton
Hannibal
Amrabat
Reguilon

All apart from Wan Bissaka (better than Dalot) should be gone this summer if we're going to get serious. Maybe Hannibal purely for numbers.

Then there's the 2025 expiry:
Maguire
McTominay
Varane
Eriksen
Van de beek
Diallo
Pellistri
Greenwood

I'd keep Maguire (we can't sell all of our CBs) and Eriksen for what it's worth. The rest should be going.

Casemiro and Sancho need to go. Same with Antony but we're probably stuck with him.

We're losing very little clearing out that lot other than squad numbers.

I mean, we could do that. But, then what? It's probably cheaper for the club to renew a contract than to fork out millions for a player and put them on the same wages as the departed player.

The list I agree with. Most of these players need replacing. But, we have to renew some contracts just to keep a squad together.

 

[VP89]

Said it on a podcast a while back, there was a thread on it.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/andy-mitten-the-players-arent-responding-to-the-manager.479632/

Not sure how he can say that the players aren't responding to him, but now also say he knows what's needed.

I dont see it as being mutually exclusive. Everyone can see the players are a problem and their revolut every 18 months needs to be stamped on for once.

 

[Laurencio]

Of course he knows what’s needed. We know he’s got football Knowledge. Before he came there was tons of interviews with him speaking about tactics etc. but it’s a whole lot different putting it into action.

If only we saw evidence of it on the pitch, in man management and in game management. Where is the Erik Ten Hag that made Ajax a real force in the Champions League? A +15 GD and perfect win record in the CL - where is that manager?

 

[VP89]

Racial? What?

Back mate, not black.

Sorry terrible skim read failure from me

 

[AndySmith1990]

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We all know what's needed. Doesn't mean we're capable of getting it done

 

[Oranges038]

I dont see it as being mutually exclusive. Everyone can see the players are a problem and their revolut every 18 months needs to be stamped on for once.

It just seems odd, that he's getting this info on one side but on the other says he talked to the manager and says he knows what's needed.

 

[Lash]

Sorry terrible skim read failure from me

that's given me a good laugh

 

[VP89]

It just seems odd, that he's getting this info on one side but on the other says he talked to the manager and says he knows what's needed.

I didn't like his tone in recent podcasts, he came across more disrespectful than he did with previous managers. It sounds like he's finally seen both sides and made his own evaluation.

I wouldn't be surprised if ETH have a frank observation off the record that included the shit structure above him.

 

[Lash]

It just seems odd, that he's getting this info on one side but on the other says he talked to the manager and says he knows what's needed.

Well if his info is coming from disgruntled players, they'll likely paint a terrible picture of he doesn't know what he's doing, etc. people can not respond to the manager, put it all on the manager and make it very convincing too.

If Mitten can sit down with him and understand his message, he's probably rethinking the information he got previous as probably a bit biased.

It's also fine to change your opinion based on new insight and information!

 

[Lash]

I didn't like his tone in recent podcasts, he came across more disrespectful than he did with previous managers. It sounds like he's finally seen both sides and made his own evaluation.

I wouldn't be surprised if ETH have a frank observation off the record that included the shit structure above him.

Glad it wasn't just me, I felt that too.

 

[morree]

ETH isn't perfect and he might not be the manager for united going forward, but until we get rid of our shit players that don't wanna put in the effort for the badge it won't help sacking him and bringing in someone else. We would just have the same thing happen again in 18 months. Honestly i thought we would have learned by now after sacking 4 managers. We still have players from the Van Gaal era, that says a lot about the club. Player Power FC

 

[USREDEVIL]

Didn't he say a while back the players weren't responding to him?

That's like half the team.

 

[Oranges038]

Well if his info is coming from disgruntled players, they'll likely paint a terrible picture of he doesn't know what he's doing, etc. people can not respond to the manager, put it all on the manager and make it very convincing too.

If Mitten can sit down with him and understand his message, he's probably rethinking the information he got previous as probably a bit biased.

It's also fine to change your opinion based on new insight and information!

I get that.

But if he's taking that info from one or two disgruntled players and putting it out there, people already know how well connected he is and will take it as almost fact. That this is what is happening. Fast forward a few weeks and he talking the managers side. After getting a different point of view.

Almost like painting a balanced view doesn't really come into it when you're striving for clicks on a subscription based platform.