[Lee565]

At some point eth has to try him in a different position, why persist with something that is clearly not working and ultimately devaluing him with every passing game.

This is what I can't get with some managers when they act stubborn or play it safe with trying to reinvent a player when there are so many successful examples of it, I mean who would have thought griezmann would turn out to be a fantastic midfielder after years of his career looking to be going downhill for barca and atletico as a striker/winger.

 

[kouroux]

At some point eth has to try him in a different position, why persist with something that is clearly not working and ultimately devaluing him with every passing game.

This is what I can't get with some managers when they act stubborn or play it safe with trying to reinvent a player when there are so many successful examples of it, I mean who would have thought griezmann would turn out to be a fantastic midfielder after years of his career looking to be going downhill for barca and atletico as a striker/winger.

Anywhere else could be a lot worse. He can't pass between the lines so as a 10 is impossible and he can't cross so as a conventional LW, he'd also be bland.

 

[Jippy]

Jaap Stam on The Overlap (47:50-49:20) spoke about Antony. He said he wasn’t exactly the best player in the Eredivisie, questioned the fee and whether he can play at this level and noted how it’s easy to standout in a league full of mediocre players.

I would trust Stam‘s judgement on this. Personally, I wasn’t moved by Antony’s compilations. It’s always a red flag when they are mostly pieces of skill and not many great crosses or passes. And that is exactly what we have got. Nice moments of flashiness from time to time but a dearth of decisive plays

He wasn't bad, but nowhere near a key player. His stats weren't special, his play was fun to watch most of the time but barely effective.

Thanks, so no regression as such, just the realities of moving to a tougher league. The fee paid is up obviously up there with Sancho's insane salary leap from Dortmund to United in the pantheon of baffling management decisions.

 

[Borys]

Agree. And the whole point of an inverted winger is he can cut in and shoot with his stronger foot. Which Antony is also crap at. Tbh I can't even remember a single moment where he even remotely threat the opponent keeper in the last months. He used to try that a lot but his shooting is simply too weak to beat the PL keepers who all are very tall and have excellent reflex. If it can hit the target. Big if.

Anyway good thing he has cut that shit off recently. Used to do my head when he tried that and hit the stand. But there is no point to play an inverted winger if he can't dribble past a defender, can't cut in and shoot, can't cross. Even his passing is quite crap. Dalot is actually faster, a better passer and can cross a bit. And obviously much better defensively.

And has more goal contributions. It might seem like it's not important, but I don't think the next manager will be such a fan of Antony as Ten Hag is.

 

[Lee565]

Anywhere else could be a lot worse. He can't pass between the lines so as a 10 is impossible and he can't cross so as a conventional LW, he'd also be bland.

But we have nothing to lose, try it in a fa cup game or when we have a comfortable lead in the league

 

[THE ZOL]

Thanks, so no regression as such, just the realities of moving to a tougher league. The fee paid is up obviously up there with Sancho's insane salary leap from Dortmund to United in the pantheon of baffling management decisions.

Sancho was genuinely one of the best youngsters. He dominated the Bundesliga and he was dropping masterclasses in the UCL knockout rounds. Perhaps he hasn’t been value for money as of yet but no eyebrows were raised at the fee back then.

It is nowhere near as baffling as the Antony signing. £100m for 17 goals and 12 assists in 55 Eredivisie games (across two seasons) is crazy. He didn’t even dominate the Eredivisie.

 

[kouroux]

But we have nothing to lose, try it in a fa cup game or when we have a comfortable lead in the league

That scenario is unlikely to happen

 

[Jippy]

Sancho was genuinely one of the best youngsters. He dominated the Bundesliga and he was dropping masterclasses in the UCL knockout rounds. Perhaps he hasn’t been value for money as of yet but no eyebrows were raised at the fee back then.

It is nowhere near as baffling as the Antony signing. £100m for 17 goals and 12 assists in 55 Eredivisie games (across two seasons) is crazy. He didn’t even dominate the Eredivisie.

I was more musing aloud tbh on the club's financial mismanagement tbh than comparing the players.

Sancho looked quality, I agree, and most of us wanted him, particularly when we got him cheaper than the price quoted the previous year. There was no bidding war though, so why we hiked his salary to such an extent is baffling...and is biting us now we're trying to offload him.

 

[Giggsyking]

His best position is out of the club in the summer.

 

[FerociousCorgis]

has some positive qualities for sure, so not like he is a total waste of a player out there. But yeah...that fee looking insane now. A well run club would prob bite the bullet and move him for whatever they could get to minimize the loss at this point. Maybe he will find his way at some point. Anytime that he does something besides the stupid curling attempt to the far post it does seem like something good comes from it at the end. Just trying to look for some of the positives.

 

[DJ Jeff]

Anywhere else could be a lot worse. He can't pass between the lines so as a 10 is impossible and he can't cross so as a conventional LW, he'd also be bland.

That and he doesn't have the pace to beat a man on the outside to get a cross in (which he's shit at anyway) as a LW.

Sell in the summer for whatever we can recoup. He's young so at least that might tack an extra 10m on the 30m offers we'd probably get at best.

 

[El Jefe]

The limitations in his game are laughable. He’s only able to do about three things well and is absolutely rotten at the rest.

The only pass he’s able to make to an attacker in the final third is the through ball along the ground in behind to the striker making the diagonal run from left to right with loads of space in behind. Any other pass be it a near post cross, far post cross, chipped ball over the top etc he’s totally incapable of pulling it off.

Has he ever made a successful pass that wasn’t along the ground? The right hand side is a creative black hole with him there.

As I guessed last season his shooting has also gone to shit now. His attempts this season have been so dreadful because teams now make it difficult to give him the opening for the only shot he’s capable of making.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

The limitations in his game are laughable. He’s only able to do about three things well and is absolutely rotten at the rest.

The only pass he’s able to make to an attacker in the final third is the through ball along the ground in behind to the striker making the diagonal run from left to right with loads of space in behind. Any other pass be it a near post cross, far post cross, chipped ball over the top etc he’s totally incapable of pulling it off.

Has he ever made a successful pass that wasn’t along the ground? The right hand side is a creative black hole with him there.

As I guessed last season his shooting has also gone to shit now. His attempts this season have been so dreadful because teams now make it difficult to give him the opening for the only shot he’s capable of making.

Yeah it's baffling how few people were able to notice this early on when many thought he just "needed time" or were more concerned with him not taking players on the outside. He 's a complete 0 creatively which was alarming for me as it was obvious his finishing was pretty lackluster and one sided as well. There just wasn't even any tools to work with where you could say "okay if he can improve X he can be a great player"

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

I've brought it up before but I think the only chance he would have of salvaging his career is to try and convert to a Fred style energetic 8. His best qualities seem to be his close control/retention of the ball and his defensive instincts, so why not utilize them in a place where he's not asked to really contribute in the final third?

If he doesn't want to do that, shit him back to Vitesse and forget about him.

 

[The Hilton]

If he had a speed of Salah, he would have gotten several chances yesterday. That’s his weakness - he is slow and can’t outrun defenders And unlike some other qualities, running speed can’t be trained

Yeah I've said this a few times before on here, but the best description I have of Antony is that he has the game of a top class pacey winger, only without the pace or acceleration. It's a shame really, as the rest of his game has a lot to it.

 

[tomaldinho1]

has some positive qualities for sure, so not like he is a total waste of a player out there. But yeah...that fee looking insane now. A well run club would prob bite the bullet and move him for whatever they could get to minimize the loss at this point. Maybe he will find his way at some point. Anytime that he does something besides the stupid curling attempt to the far post it does seem like something good comes from it at the end. Just trying to look for some of the positives.

Forget the fee though, our whole team is full of insane fee players on huge salaries and most of them are playing poorly. I do think with Antony he's been better recently, he's had this spell after coming back where people appreciate the workrate and he's been very unlucky (he scores but Maguire runs off side, Silva flukes blocking his shot with a dangling foot, our team can't finish from simple passes where he should really have a few assists - he's played Rashford and McT in one on one in the penalty area off the top of my head).

We have compounded things by making him our senior attacking player though, if we'd bought in a top striker with pace and who would run that channel/hold the ball up well it would have made a big difference but Hojlund is so raw. i do like him but we're a few seasons off seeing him at his best most likely and by then we'll probably have a near enough new team.

 

[Roboc7]

The limitations in his game are laughable. He’s only able to do about three things well and is absolutely rotten at the rest.

The only pass he’s able to make to an attacker in the final third is the through ball along the ground in behind to the striker making the diagonal run from left to right with loads of space in behind. Any other pass be it a near post cross, far post cross, chipped ball over the top etc he’s totally incapable of pulling it off.

Has he ever made a successful pass that wasn’t along the ground? The right hand side is a creative black hole with him there.

As I guessed last season his shooting has also gone to shit now. His attempts this season have been so dreadful because teams now make it difficult to give him the opening for the only shot he’s capable of making.

Unfortunately we have lots of players who are only good at a few things. For some reason at Utd doing a few things well, even inconsistently, seems to be acceptable and outweighs all the essential things people can’t do.

 

[Lynty]

We truly got robbed of 80m.

I like the guy, he works hard - but I think Dan James had more output and threat.

 

[MadMike]

He's clearly not a good enough RW so I can see why people are tempted to try him elsewhere. But the problem is, the whole midfield formation with 1 CM and 2 AMs, doesn't work. Once you switch to 2 CMs + 1AM where does Antony play? He ain't a CM, nor a ST and he's failed as a winger. Does he get the single AM position ahead of Bruno, Mount or Eriksen? I just don't see it.

I think we have to accept after 2 seasons that he has been a failure. Sticking with him and trying him in different positions won't magically improve things. It didn't for work Van Der Beek, neither for Sancho (who we also tried as #10 and both winger roles to get some form out of him) nor for any player I remember from recent memory. You might find that a player is better fit for a slightly different position and get improved average performances, but it won't magically elevate performance levels from the gutter to the stars. He just isn't good enough and everything else is pure hopium and just delaying the inevitable.

Bite the bullet, like Arsenal did with Pepe, sell him and move on.

 

[golden_blunder]

I've brought it up before but I think the only chance he would have of salvaging his career is to try and convert to a Fred style energetic 8. His best qualities seem to be his close control/retention of the ball and his defensive instincts, so why not utilize them in a place where he's not asked to really contribute in the final third?

If he doesn't want to do that, shit him back to Vitesse and forget about him.

That’s what I think too, he could be good if utilised where he is not expected to cross the ball. He’s got decent passing, a huge work rate, good presser and good at retaining the ball. Some sort of central midfield role would be interesting

 

[Stacks]

He§s still one of the players the next manager can make player out of. Hes got tools, but obviously if we have 30% of the ball and are pressed so much its impossible for any attacking player to get in the game. Simple as that.

he has been like this since he got there and Eth has had him before. What tools does he possess?

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

That’s what I think too, he could be good if utilised where he is not expected to cross the ball. He’s got decent passing, a huge work rate, good presser and good at retaining the ball. Some sort of central midfield role would be interesting

I do not rate his passing and he is too small/slow to play CM. I rate Mount higher.

 

[MadMike]

I do not rate his passing and he is too small/slow to play CM. I rate Mount higher.

Essentially both are AMs and not CMs, but I also rate Mount higher for the latter role.

Yet neither of them should be a CM for us. There's better players who've been training in those positions for years. Just play Case and Mainoo in CM. This whole experiment with one #6 and two #10s is pants.

 

[lex talionis]

We truly got robbed of 80m.

I like the guy, he works hard - but I think Dan James had more output and threat.

I seriously doubt Jesse James stole as much money in his lifetime as Ajax stole from us when they sold us Antony -- who in my book hasn't earned the right to go by a single name, but at least he doesn't go by Antonyinho!

According to Sky Sports, Ajax robbed us of £80.5m plus £4.25m in add-ons, not the £70m that I and others ordinally refer to. You gotta hand it to the Dutch masters for bitchslapping United when we were at our most desperate state of delusion.

 

[criticalanalysis]

That’s what I think too, he could be good if utilised where he is not expected to cross the ball. He’s got decent passing, a huge work rate, good presser and good at retaining the ball. Some sort of central midfield role would be interesting

Shades of Di Maria under Ancelotti

It seems a bit mad but Antony as a 10 might work. His close control, awareness when being pressed and ball carrying in the middle of the park could translate...

 

[Lexicon Red Devil]

That and he doesn't have the pace to beat a man on the outside to get a cross in (which he's shit at anyway) as a LW.

Sell in the summer for whatever we can recoup. He's young so at least that might tack an extra 10m on the 30m offers we'd probably get at best.

But playing on the left would mean he could play balls in first time which negates the need for blistering pace to some degree. His crossing is usually bad because it is overhit which again isn't as bad when it's an outswinger as it gives our players on the far side a chance to retrieve the ball and keep it alive.

He really can't be any worse on the left, because on the right he is completely ineffective. The whole point of inverted wingers is to provide a goal threat and to help feed overlapping fullbacks. He does neither and is hardly ever able to play balls into the middle because he has no right foot.

 

[kouroux]

That and he doesn't have the pace to beat a man on the outside to get a cross in (which he's shit at anyway) as a LW.

Sell in the summer for whatever we can recoup. He's young so at least that might tack an extra 10m on the 30m offers we'd probably get at best.

Or keep him as a sub

 

[aeh1991]

Stop that nonsense about converting Antony to a CM, wingback or whatever. He's just a poor winger and doesn't have the quality to play on a different position better than what we already have. Also, before we even start experimenting and losing his already massively decreasing value, it's the best to ship him off asap.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

That’s what I think too, he could be good if utilised where he is not expected to cross the ball. He’s got decent passing, a huge work rate, good presser and good at retaining the ball. Some sort of central midfield role would be interesting

Yeah in my head I'm thinking a version of Fred that's also excellent in tight spaces and plays less boneheaded passes. Both will pop up with the occasional goal or assist as a welcome surprise, but in general you just unleash them to harass the opposition in the middle of the park as their main goal. Fred was pretty one footed as well but it's not as big of an issue if you aren't a primary creator/attacker.

 

[USREDEVIL]

How's his goalkeeping?

 

[golden_blunder]

How's his goalkeeping?

Probably better than our Turkish chap

 

[USREDEVIL]

Probably better than our Turkish chap

Alright, warm him up for west ham. Onana on the right wing. Turkish guy supplies the morning coffee. That is all.

 

[VivaRonaldo85]

Please don’t say we bought an £80 million plus Brazilian winger to convert him into the new Fred. His limitations are massive on the wing so you either see if he can offer anything centrally in an attacking outlet (the new Van Persie!!) given how lightweight we are there or get rid next summer and accept the club got this one wrong.

 

[The Irish Connection]

A right winger who can score and assist is hugely important for us still.
Sell Antony and keep Amad as back up.

 

[Cloud7]

But we have nothing to lose, try it in a fa cup game or when we have a comfortable lead in the league

When we what?

 

[Castia]

He’s no better than somebody like Elanga is he. Ajax must look at the receipts from this deal when they want a laugh I bet they can’t believe it

 

[FrankDrebin]

Jaap Stam was perplexed by our move for him and that was before we even put down the £80 million.

£80 million...with add-ons

....jfc.

 

[kouroux]

At some point eth has to try him in a different position, why persist with something that is clearly not working and ultimately devaluing him with every passing game.

This is what I can't get with some managers when they act stubborn or play it safe with trying to reinvent a player when there are so many successful examples of it, I mean who would have thought griezmann would turn out to be a fantastic midfielder after years of his career looking to be going downhill for barca and atletico as a striker/winger.

What ? Looking downhill at Atletico before his Barca move ?

 

[redNATION]

He’s no better than somebody like Elanga is he. Ajax must look at the receipts from this deal when they want a laugh I bet they can’t believe it

That’s a theme throughout Europe when it comes to us - Real with Di Maria, Casemiro and Varane, Chelsea with Mount, Dortmund with Sancho, Atalanta with Hjolund, Inter with Onana and the list goes on. If you want someone to overpay for your players, just call our management and they’ll sort you out.

Antony really is a shocking player, he would genuinely struggle in the Championship or SPL. He struts around on the pitch like he’s Salah, but isn’t even as good as Ashley Young.

 

[CannibalSpectre]

He’s no better than somebody like Elanga is he. Ajax must look at the receipts from this deal when they want a laugh I bet they can’t believe it

Elanga has three goals and three assists in the PL this season against the likes of Arsenal, Brighton, West Ham and Chelsea and is always a direct threat. He's a better player than Antony in all honesty. Antony is yet to convince me he belongs at this level