This season is the evidence no?
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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This is completely irrelevant to the conversation. You've also horribly misused an ellipsis.
Okay, fair enough
We definitely over performed last season. But this season has been absolutely tragic.
We're in 20th position for goals created and converted. Blame that on the business side of things.
It's all a bit pathetic.
Man is talking like a man who knows his job is safe purely because the club is pathetic and not because he is actually doing anything good.
Disagree.
Don't see why this is the norm and top four an anomaly when Ole qualified twice in his two full seasons.
He didn't do that before Arsenal, which is the direct comparison here.
Emery did those things with Villarreal, who gave him a job after he failed at Arsenal, because they recognised that one managerial failure in a badly run club doesn't necessarily make a bad manager. ETH will be given the same grace, without question. Given his previous success at Ajax, he just needs to replicate that and he'll be miles away from the "irrelevance" that you so childishly suggest.
So I get that things have eventually taken a downturn under other managers but at the end of the day we finished 7th under Moyes, 6th under Rangnick, 5th under LVG when he got sacked etc. I feel like this season will almost make those ones look respectable if we continue as we are, and that is some achievement.
I know what you mean. Like Breaking Bad. Here fishy fishy
What a disappointment he's been this season. It's like watching a tv series that has a great pilot but just gets shitter and shitter with each episode.
He'll be gone once Ratcliffe is settled in.
Always like a good wager
Amazing. You've jumped from "seeing my post is proof you didn't ignore me" to "yes you can see ignored posters posts by clicking a button". At least your inconsistency isn't limited to the manager, you're all over the place in general!When did you invent that?
The only way to view the ignores posters posts is by deliberately hitting the "show ignored content" at the end of the page.
Face it, you didn't actually put me on any list and is just trying to save face at this point.
Again, you are so amusing.
Ellipsis was a typo. Just adding some information about Emery's sacking, wasn't that deep, about how even Arsenal were relatively patient but didn't let it get as bad as it was here. Are you always that grouchy?
Those quotes from him explain why the standard is so low, as player seeing that it justifies the poor results.
I'm actually desperate for to be sacked him now, along with half of this squad
I'm actually desperate for to be sacked him now, along with half of this squad
Statistically this season is already miles worse than any of the previous ones that the others got fired for.
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Taking a player off for having reduced 'energy levels' at half time is absurd, unless the player is literally gassed, which I find it hard to believe that Mainoo was based on his first half performance.
It is half time, Mainoo has fifteen minutes to regroup. Send him out and see how he goes, especially if your only other option is bringing on McTominay as a DM.
I mean, it sounds obvious, doesn't it.
It is half time, Mainoo has fifteen minutes to regroup. Send him out and see how he goes, especially if your only other option is bringing on McTominay as a DM.
I mean, it sounds obvious, doesn't it.
Loser mentality. How exactly do you ETH supporters justify this? If we overperformed last season, (despite Ole finishing top 4 in his first two official seasons with most of the same players), then what IS our level? This Moyes level of reducing expectations.
AmazingWhen did you invent that?
The only way to view the ignores posters posts is by deliberately hitting the "show ignored content" at the end of the page.
Face it, you didn't actually put me on any list and is just trying to save face at this point.
Again, you are so amusing.
Sorry mate, I'm just frustrated. Frankly I really wanted ETH to succeed here, I think there's a lot of good that he's done, and while I understand the calls for him to go the disingenuous nature of them from most posters gets under my skin. There's a rot deep within the club that no amount of new manager bounces will fix.
Fair enough we over-performed on the contrary as we were in all 4 competitions until April. But we were definitely performing much better past season up to a point and deserved the top 4 finish.
We're talking a top 4 finish ffs, this is how low the standards are being set at, that our own manager believes we didn't even deserve top 4 last season!
He's making excuses to save his own back.
Radcliffe has surely been keeping an eye on our performances since the start of the season and I'd be surprised if he didn't have candidates in mind a couple of months ago.
When did you miss the word "deliberately" in what I said? You are blaming the ignore feature for not removing my posts then you are deliberately pressing the button to view the ignored content so that you can see my posts and even quote them. You have been quoting me non-stop since then. How hilarious is that? "Ignored" me indeed.Amazing. You've jumped from "seeing my post is proof you didn't ignore me" to "yes you can see ignored posters posts by clicking a button". At least your inconsistency isn't limited to the manager, you're all over the place in general!
Keep going on. I'm not the one who said I ignored someone yet can't stop reading and quoting their posts.
How have you still not been banned. Just feck off.When did you miss the word "deliberately" in what I said? You are blaming the ignore feature for not removing my posts then you are deliberately pressing the button to view the ignored content so that you can see my posts and even quote them. You have been quoting me nonsense since then. How hilarious is that? "Ignored" me indeed.
Keep going on. I'm not the one who said I ignored someone yet can't stop reading and quoting their posts.
My soul hurts a little when I look at the money he's spunked over the last two years. Coming off the back off Ole spunking £170m on Sancho, Ronaldo and AWB. I genuinely good do better than whoever signs off on these.
Tonight randomly changing the wide forwards after a good game, playing Mctominay in CM again.. unfortunately he has too many flaws
Tonight randomly changing the wide forwards after a good game, playing Mctominay in CM again.. unfortunately he has too many flaws
Loser mentality
It’s called being realistic. Many of these players aren’t good enough.
I have no doubts Gregg Berhalter would if he had these options at a club he were to manage.
Fair enough. I think he did a lot of good stuff in the first season. People act as if it was terrible from the League Cup onwards (it wasn't, won the last 4 games of the season to comfortably finish 3rd and made the FA Cup final, when a collapse could have happened). The Liverpool game last season was awful but it was mostly a one-off and the standard was promising.
But from the very first game this season, the set-up has been a disaster. It was dysfunctional against Wolves with everyone fit and hasn't got better. He's been stubborn and failed to find a fix to his system which clearly doesn't work. There is a rot in the club in recruitment and the board. But also he has to take responsibility for losing so many games. It's been a truly terrible season and the team looks badly coached.
This is - respectfully - incredibly debatable
It'll end up much better than those seasons, no matter where we finish, if we take a long term approach with regards to the replacement. Moyes was awful, so we bounced to an entirely different manager in LVG. That fell apart, so we bounced to an entirely different manager in Mourinho. He ruined the vibes, so we went all in on vibes with Ole. Ole's mid block didn't work out, so we brought in Rangnick to turn us into pressing monsters and then acted surprised when the players couldn't do it.
Throwing a random interim at this may give us a short term bounce, but it's the same long term pattern of failure.
The ridiculous arguing between posters on both side of the fence is getting out of hand, some of ye really need to grow up, some of ye have completely lost the ability to have genuine discussion on this subject and just take childish jabs at each other, it's made the forum unbearable these days.
His previous "success at Ajax" was due to the very talented young squad that Overmars had assembled. As they matured, they would have won the Dutch league, ETH or no ETH.
With us, ETH failed in everything. Recruitment, man-management, in-game management, tactics ... everything. He wasted 400 million for deadwood. He broke dozens of negative records. And he is older than Pep, having won nothing of value. He is not going to manage any good team ever again.
This is silly really, teams know how much of a mess this club is, there's a reason things have gone the same way with basically every manager. ETH won't struggle to find another job
You seem to insult and mock other posters here who don’t agree with you. This is not the first time that you did that after the game today.
The bold parts are where I disagree. In the first half against Spurs we were utterly dominant, in a way I haven't seen us since Fergie, we completely suffocated them and should have been multiple goals to the good. We looked just like Klopp's Liverpool at their best.
It fell apart in the second half, and we haven't had the squad to get near that level of play again, nor will we as it seems like ETH's time is likely up, but I'd like us to bring in someone to continue us down that path, rather than bouncing around various styles and philosophies for another decade.
Emery's reputation was hardly in tatters at Arsenal. It wasn't in a good place but it wasn't in tatters either. The man had 3 European titles before Arsenal. Anyone could have told you he would easily find a job at a big club in Europe again. Ten Hag's claim to fame is a CL semi-final run 4 years ago.
I'll give you the odd incompetent front office at a big club in one of Europe's top 5 leagues that will probably open the way for him to land another big job again but I guarantee you that when he inevitably ballses that up, that will be it for him for a while. He is destined to manage at mid-table club sides in Europe's top 5 leagues for the foreseeable future because he has proven that he is at best a second tier manager and is nowhere near being a top manager in Europe. The only country where he is almost guaranteed a top job if he wants it is the Eredivisie with Ajax and maybe the Dutch National team job. That's it.
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Sure, we overperformed last year and we all expected a less successful campaign this time round. And sure we're underperforming this year due to a lot of very valid reasons - Rashford's goals have dried up, we have about 10 players injured at any point in time (including our key performers from last season in Casemiro, Licha, Shaw, Varane and new signing Mount), Onana decided to single handedly sabotage our CL campaign, the refs have been suspiciously card and decision friendly against us, and Sancho has checked out out of his footballing career. These are reasons most managers would truly struggle with.
But the bare minimum EtH has to show in the face of these adversities is competence with the tools at his disposal, and the ability to use them like a top manager would.
- Why did he stick so long with Rashford instead of understanding that his 'star man' was only make things worse, and more worryingly wasn't showing the body language you'd expect of your best player on the pitch?
- Why did he persist with Onana in every CL game instead of taking him out of the spotlight and trying to salvage something out of the group? In fact, he's not even tried another keeper to see how we'd fare if Onana continue the free fall.
- Is your standard for selection based on quality or effort? If your standard is quality, then Antony should not be given so many starts, and Sancho should be in the squad. If it is effort on the pitch, then Rashford shouldn't have been in the lineup for so long. Which is it?
- When he starts McTominay game after game even when other midfield options are present, the message it sends out is that he trusts more in McT's individual moments than his own tactical reading of what a good midfield looks like. That's inexcusable. The Mainoo sub today was inexcusable. How do you expect others to have faith in you when you don't show faith in yourself?
- He is not getting the best out of any single player who is fit and ready to play. Why did it take so long to see Garnacho on the right, for instance? Why did he buy Hojlund if he can't get his team to create chances for him? Why is it that this is the worst version of Bruno we've seen in a United shirt? Why is our football so shit, and every single United footballer looking so much worse than we know they are?
- He's not shown the mental fortitude to build on good games. Each time we have a false dawn, and each time he does something absurd after it. It is as demoralizing as getting thrased 5-0 or 7-0 by your rivals - the feeling that you can do your best and win a game, and it still won't matter as we will probably lose the next one nonetheless.
- He's not shown the ability to beat top sides away from home. Even keeping aside the 7-0 at Anfield as an aberration, he's not managed to have strong game away. It doesn't get better if you start breaking the wrong sorts of records at home to couple with that as well. You can't beat the likes of City, Liverpool, Arsenal or Spurs away, and now you can't beat Bournemouth and Forest as well? What can you do, then?
I said it before, ETH has had the opposite of the Midas touch, yes we're in dire straits as a club and as a squad - but he's somehow managed to make things even worse.
All this said, when he goes it won't be just his fault. Questions have to be asked of the recruitment team for overspending on such poor fits - Sancho, Antony, Onana, Mount - and making so many wrong decisions in one window. They have to be asked of players like Rashford - who unlike Sancho decided to give up on football on the pitch instead of at his PS5. They have to be asked of our medical team and fitness regimes - why did we have so many injuried in one season? They have to be asked of the management's vision of the club - what are your standards, and what determines whether or not someone meets them? What sort of football do you want to play? They have to be asked of our club's response to the terrible VAR and ref calls that have consistently gone against us this season - why is no one speaking up to call them out and prevent them from happening again?
Just a shitshow on every front.
But the bare minimum EtH has to show in the face of these adversities is competence with the tools at his disposal, and the ability to use them like a top manager would.
- Why did he stick so long with Rashford instead of understanding that his 'star man' was only make things worse, and more worryingly wasn't showing the body language you'd expect of your best player on the pitch?
- Why did he persist with Onana in every CL game instead of taking him out of the spotlight and trying to salvage something out of the group? In fact, he's not even tried another keeper to see how we'd fare if Onana continue the free fall.
- Is your standard for selection based on quality or effort? If your standard is quality, then Antony should not be given so many starts, and Sancho should be in the squad. If it is effort on the pitch, then Rashford shouldn't have been in the lineup for so long. Which is it?
- When he starts McTominay game after game even when other midfield options are present, the message it sends out is that he trusts more in McT's individual moments than his own tactical reading of what a good midfield looks like. That's inexcusable. The Mainoo sub today was inexcusable. How do you expect others to have faith in you when you don't show faith in yourself?
- He is not getting the best out of any single player who is fit and ready to play. Why did it take so long to see Garnacho on the right, for instance? Why did he buy Hojlund if he can't get his team to create chances for him? Why is it that this is the worst version of Bruno we've seen in a United shirt? Why is our football so shit, and every single United footballer looking so much worse than we know they are?
- He's not shown the mental fortitude to build on good games. Each time we have a false dawn, and each time he does something absurd after it. It is as demoralizing as getting thrased 5-0 or 7-0 by your rivals - the feeling that you can do your best and win a game, and it still won't matter as we will probably lose the next one nonetheless.
- He's not shown the ability to beat top sides away from home. Even keeping aside the 7-0 at Anfield as an aberration, he's not managed to have strong game away. It doesn't get better if you start breaking the wrong sorts of records at home to couple with that as well. You can't beat the likes of City, Liverpool, Arsenal or Spurs away, and now you can't beat Bournemouth and Forest as well? What can you do, then?
I said it before, ETH has had the opposite of the Midas touch, yes we're in dire straits as a club and as a squad - but he's somehow managed to make things even worse.
All this said, when he goes it won't be just his fault. Questions have to be asked of the recruitment team for overspending on such poor fits - Sancho, Antony, Onana, Mount - and making so many wrong decisions in one window. They have to be asked of players like Rashford - who unlike Sancho decided to give up on football on the pitch instead of at his PS5. They have to be asked of our medical team and fitness regimes - why did we have so many injuried in one season? They have to be asked of the management's vision of the club - what are your standards, and what determines whether or not someone meets them? What sort of football do you want to play? They have to be asked of our club's response to the terrible VAR and ref calls that have consistently gone against us this season - why is no one speaking up to call them out and prevent them from happening again?
Just a shitshow on every front.
In my eyes, this is another indictment on Ten Hag. The rift in the fanbase exists for a reason. Things will improve once he’s gone
He had success with a good DoF who assembled a talented young squad. He then came here without that kind of support, and things have gone wrong, just as they have with every other manager. In a competently run club, with the support of a good DoF, he'll get another chance to demonstrate his ability to succeed in that setup.