I'm focusing on his time overall.
Most of the talk is that he’ll be there next season. Most of the injuries will be back by April so his injuries excuses wont be valid if there’s no change in performance
We already saw what we're like when players came back a few weeks ago. We played the exact same way. Chaotic games with chances for both teams. A lack of control.
Pay me 10m a year and I won't give up either
Solskjaer did the exact same thing for large spells of his reign. ten Hag has a 6% better win ratio. However, he has a worse loss ratio.
What is the overall points per game comparing both managers after 2 seasons? Guess Ole has a caretaker stint though.
I think those who are yet blind to his scarily limited abilities as a manager are naive fools.
Hag is having the same stint now.
As you said progress isn’t linear which is exactly why the downward trajectory for EtH should ring alarm bells.
It's not downward though is it? He's bounced back from bad form at various points this season despite having an injury plagued defence. His 2024 form is better than just good in fact.
Can you answer the question?
Imagine taking this season as reflective of his managerial prowess and ignoring everything else he's done
What was his Win% to start the season & what is his win percentage now?
Yeah he can go and learn the ropes of footy management at a club more suited to his level. We are not a sandbox ffs. Anyway since you are one of the "keep" brigade there is no point of this. Read the threads, all excuses have been shredded to bits time and time again.Can you answer the question?
Imagine taking this season as reflective of his managerial prowess and ignoring everything else he's done
By the way, he may well be limited as a top level coach, but he also may not be. For me it's impossible to tell given the cards he's dealt and him needing time to work shit out on his side too. What you cannot argue against however, is he's had us bounce back at various points this season, and when he's had the key players back we did show much better form.
I've already addressed that the progress isn't going to be a linear one. He also had quite an unsustainable win % in year one. My point regarding bouncing back is that he's capable of getting the team on better patches of form to turn things around (results wise, I accept our performances are not convincing). And his 2024 form is actually very good.
You can say a lot of arbitrary things and veer off the point if you like. There was mention of him versus our predecessor on win % and loss %, and I am just asking how his overall points per game or win % stacks up after the same number of games, compared to his predecessor. That's all.
Since SAF left there are a number of fans who like to look at this period as one of martyrdom, if we ‘do it the hard way’ it’ll make up for all the years of glory hunting so there comes some confusion between supporting the club & what in turn that means to support the manager. You get drawn into discussions that sound a lot more like their concerns are with the success of a manager rather than the club.
‘better patches of form’ don’t win leagues &/or compete for them. The biggest red flag is he’s not even being asked to do those things, we finished 3rd last season & his apologists were already making excuses as to why we should finish 4th. We’re now relying on teams to collapse to be in with a shout at 5th.
Wish I saw it as clearly as you, I see a tactical mess every game with teams running through us at will due to midfielders being everywhere but where they’re meant to be and forwards generally refusing to track back. I’m all for inverted fullbacks moving into midfield but when it breaks down we seem to have zero know how of how to defend the counter attack into the gapping hole.
I dont think it's reasonable for any manager to be expected to push for a league with this many defensive injuries, and a youth project spearheading the attack.
I dont care for how much we spent when we have a clown negotiating the fees. That's not a slight on the coach.
Win % last year was quite unsustainable. If our win % was tailing down this season within the year as it progressed then sure. However when the cards are stacked against us, we seem to show some prolonged form to stabilise. Again, our 11 games in 2024 have been good by way of results, and we will be seeing some key players back now too.
Mate, we’ve been on a downward spiral since we beat Barcelona last season but people want to pretend this season has come completely out of the blue.
Which is exactly why I pointed out that expectations have been vastly lowered this season for him & he’s failing to even meet those.
If his high win % last year was unsustainable then his poor win % this year is what exactly? I’d say it’s again, unsustainable.
Given you’ve labelled my post gaslighting I barely think apologist is the worse of the 2 but it wasn’t meant to be offensive, more so descriptive. I’m trying debate reasonably also.
Agreed.
Exactly is ETH getting the most out of the assets at his disposal? Clearly a big no! You also raise another point though. How amazing was SAF? To constantly put out a winning team under the Glazer mess. Look who have tried after him and failed.
My point is the extent of his specific underperformance from a result standpoint is overcooked, for the context already given.
You looked at a win % last season and compared to a win % this season to make a point, but also say progress isn't linear.
Aye he's lost too much this season. He's also been dealt a shit hand in defence that leaks so much on shots, which in part is him and in part a lack of organisation and chemistry from a patched up back 4. I'd prefer to refer to tracking his points per game to see how bad he is this season, apply the context and then see the extent to which he underperformed.
Thats fine, but I don't see a single manager on the market that actually warrants getting a spot over him. I'd rather see what he's capable of with some better support.
Results wise it's fair to say we've been very inconsistent since March last year.
The last paragraph is exactly what’s happened. Even when we’ve had a fully fit squad we haven’t been able to replicate the first few months of Ten Hags tenure.
If the club has any ambition narrowly finishing fifth wont save his job
Who gives a shit about his win percentage we are sixth and don't even deserve to be that high. Generally the football is awful to watch. As for the injuries or hojlund not having the same level of confidence all season, every club gets injuries. If we had been setup competently we would have lost fewer games regardless of the injuries
That's how I see this dynamic with Ratcliffe. I don't think they'll be reactive but pro-active and it's simply a question of can Eth win the league in the next 24-36 months given that would be 4-5 seasons of his entire tenure. It also means he will have been one of the managers with the highest NET spend in the league and also in the club's post SAF history. There's pressure and anticipation, he would need to deliver as a guarantee.
Difficult to actually gauge whether the struggles we have is set up related or personnel related. I'd argue setting up conservatively with the available players would not yield any better results nor would it be any more entertaining.
I mean in that scenario he'd finish probably one place behind where his side would be expected to given the injuries. Don't see it as a major issue, especially if he locks in CL football and ends the season strongly. People tend to remember the latest form and results when extrapolating.
Well, let's hope the "new people" running the sporting side at United will be able to look deeper than that - no matter what they decide.
According to Hirst they are. They seem to be under the impression that the structure is essentially poison for any manager. Ratcliffe has hinted this in his own interview.
I'm sure the structure has not been helpful for anyone, and especially someone like ETH - who came from the Netherlands, which was a huge step up, and then needed to make another step up with the control he was given over players signings instead of having a club sturcture to help identify the players needed for the sort of football he wanted to play. He wouldn't have had the knowledge of the market available to United so it's not surprising he turned to his own personal knowledge regardingf the players he chose, which was a pretty limited market. He needed help and probably didn't get it.
That's such a casual way of looking at things. The season's not been great is an understatement.
In a results business where your performance is paramount I do not see how someone can overcook either. I’m genuinely baffled by that sentence, are you saying underperformance &/or poor results are being overstated?
I highlighted win% in your post, you claimed his win percentage was in some way proof he is doing well & I just delved deeper. I’m not saying progress isn’t linear then criticising the win%. I was critiquing your use of win% without context.
Which is exactly why expectations have been lowered to a 5th place finish which he is currently not on target for. Whilst the team currently in 5th place, Spurs, started the season with a worse set of resources and have had their own injury issues.
It’s not up to you and me to throw names around a forum for the next manager, it just muddies the water and diverts the discussion from the incumbent. No matter who we hire they will have their naysayers so all we can do is assess the current managers performance.
