Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

The sad thing is.... When Garnacho scored on Sunday I was really quite surprised and happy. When we score a goal it's very unexpected and I see it as a bonus, crazy times but we are so so low right now I think we are clinging on to anything.

Amorims seems a smart guy and you can see how stressful he finds the job. He constantly talks about how many problems we have and I feel for him. The system and squad don't work together because the squad is dreadful.
 
Framing the argument with "if he was a fat English bloke..." really does negate the context of his career to date. If there was a fat English manager with a boring English name who had taken over Braga with the success he did, and then moved on to Sporting to resurrect them the way he did, he'd probably be considered the best manager in the world by English commentators.
 
Framing the argument with "if he was a fat English bloke..." really does negate the context of his career to date. If there was a fat English manager with a boring English name who had taken over Braga with the success he did, and then moved on to Sporting to resurrect them the way he did, he'd probably be considered the best manager in the world by English commentators.

It's not exactly a strong league? The quality is poor outside of 3 teams.
 
Why were only 3 of the team that started on Sunday there before he joined then? Why didn't he coach the rest to be good?
Does it change what I said? Why pay managers millions if the only way to improve a team is to sign better players? Are Newcastle more or less than the sum of their parts? Did Newcastle get worse after Howe took over?
 
One of their midfielders is a guy who was a laughing stock as a striker who their manager has developed into a good midfielder. That’s what good coaching can do. Make players better. Make a team more than the sum of its parts. Amorim is failing to do that and that is a managers main responsibility.
Agree with this 100%
When Amorim took over, this was our squad

Altay Bayindir
Tom Heaton
Andre Onana

Victor Lindelof
Noussair Mazraoui
Matthijs de Ligt
Maguire
Lisandro Martinez
Leny Yoro
Luke Shaw
Diogo Dalot
Evans

Mason Mount
Christian Eriksen
Casemiro
Manuel Ugarte
Kobbie Mainoo
Harry Amass
Bruno Fernandes

Antony
Rashford
Sancho
Rasmus Hojlund
Joshua Zirkzee
Amad Diallo
Garnacho
Chido Obi

+1 player in the transfer window

That is not a squad that should be 14th with the lowest points tally in our Premier League history.


He hasn't motivated or made any players better. Many have become worse, though. I would expect a manager that we want to keep for many years to come, to be able to get a tune out of that squad before heavily investing in him. He couldn't.
 
Again, the question is: Is Amorim any better than ETH?

Perhaps it is too early to answer this question with any confidence. However, so far the results say no. We'll see...
It’s way too early but I actually think we’ve looked encouraging at moments this season; last year it was diabolical and I think we were lucky to finish where we did. And of course ETH underachieved with a large number of players that he brought in; Amorim has brought in two players, one of whom was a youth project and the other a raw youngster thrown in at the deep end.
 
Do you think this was apparent at the time? I think we can see in hindsight that he made some pretty awful buys, particularly on long, expensive contracts.

Looking back at it, I don’t think his first year was too bad at first glance. Although that second season does look abysmal. I just can’t remember if it was considered bad at the time, or whether it’s hindsight.
I think we thought his first season was good because the team performed okay. But he fecked up the Sancho situation (Sancho at fault too imho), the Antony buy looked suspect from day one I thought. Casemiro looked good first season, Eriksen okay. But what he tried to install in the second season, plus the decline of Rashford, Casemiro, the Mount fail, the Antony fail, Malacia fail, Onana fail, Hojlund fail, Amrabaat fail… the list goes on. Deligt and Maz are okay, Yoro has potential, Ugarte pretty good, but that’s basically squad fillers.

No difference makers.
 
It's not exactly a strong league? The quality is poor outside of 3 teams.

They had not won the league in 19 years. I could use the same logic and say winning the league with Aberdeen is a piece of piss because the league is shite.

I suspect most of you nay sayers will be disappointed when we start looking like a footballing side next season, and probably livid when we start playing like a big club the season after. Imagine what we could have done instead by milking what we could from the mishmash of average players here by adopting a pragmatic short-termist approach.
 
Agree with this 100%
When Amorim took over, this was our squad

Altay Bayindir
Tom Heaton
Andre Onana

Victor Lindelof
Noussair Mazraoui
Matthijs de Ligt
Maguire
Lisandro Martinez
Leny Yoro
Luke Shaw
Diogo Dalot
Evans

Mason Mount
Christian Eriksen
Casemiro
Manuel Ugarte
Kobbie Mainoo
Harry Amass
Bruno Fernandes

Antony
Rashford
Sancho
Rasmus Hojlund
Joshua Zirkzee
Amad Diallo
Garnacho
Chido Obi

+1 player in the transfer window

That is not a squad that should be 14th with the lowest points tally in our Premier League history.


He hasn't motivated or made any players better. Many have become worse, though. I would expect a manager that we want to keep for many years to come, to be able to get a tune out of that squad before heavily investing in him. He couldn't.

We all know what the squad is, and it’s a shit one. Listing out every player doesn’t make them any better somehow :lol:

We have the worst United attack in living memory, we’re relying on geriatrics for our midfield depth, and we have terrible keepers. The one good attacker we do have got injured, and we’re having to play Bruno in midfield because we don’t have any other creativity there.

You don’t have to over value the squad just to rip into the manager pal
 
Between playing "successful, great football" and losing 4-1, there are many other possibilities.

Right now, the question is not if Amorim is a world class manager, the question is if Amorim is any better than ETH.
That’s fair. He’s more likable than Ten Hag in my opinion, but his record isn’t better so far.

I think his system, in theory, is better than the fecking shite crap Ten Hag system, but this hasn’t manifested itself in actual results. When you look at the transfer record of ETH and see losses of Antony 90m, Sancho 80m (by alienating him, though also Sancho’s fault) Mount 60m, Onana 50m, Malacia 15m, Hojlund 65m, Zirkzee 40m, I don’t see how the club can recover from 400m in pretty much wasted transfer fees.

Amorim hasn’t been great, but many of these players were crap anyway.
 
I think he's better than ETH

not exactly a high bar is it who gives a shit if he's better than shite
 
I"m baffled at people judging him on half a season in which he purposely decimated our attack, changed the way the team will play, and has whole load of players that he is not counting on. Evans, Heaton, Lindelof, Eriksen and it goes on.

People look for short term improvement as a testament to his qualities. It's literally what he said he won't do, playing a formation that is more familiar to the players. It would've been a short term fix, but a longterm problem. I've started to see some kind of structure in the way we play in the last few matches, bar the Newcastle game that was comedy of errors all around.

No matter the tactics or formation, you will never win a match with a goalkeeper that has a shocker every other game, and a goalscorer that has scored 1 goal in the last 26 games, while your main attacking player is injured.

I belive he will improve us, with the right tools for the job. It's no wonder he was on City's radar for the manager job. But people need to calm down a bit and a take it with a bit of context.
 
Again, the question is: Is Amorim any better than ETH?

Perhaps it is too early to answer this question with any confidence. However, so far the results say no. We'll see...
I think he's better than ETH

not exactly a high bar is it who gives a shit if he's better than shite

Amorim lost 1-5 at home to ETH.

Sporting 1 Ajax 5
 
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people comparing him to Eth based on half a season, no summer window, and in the middle of changing the entire system, is frankly laughable. Eth managed the team for multiple seasons, spent over £600m, and still had no discernible way of playing. it’s just such a childish comparison based on duhhh 4 points off 17 duhhh he’s shit. anyone who can’t see progress in the way we’re playing - ignore the fecking results - is either blind, or just too needy to have a moan. we literally just need 4 or 5 players to the squad, particularly in attack, and it will do wonders. will look forward to quoting a whole shitload of posts in here next year.
 
We all know what the squad is, and it’s a shit one. Listing out every player doesn’t make them any better somehow :lol:

We have the worst United attack in living memory, we’re relying on geriatrics for our midfield depth, and we have terrible keepers. The one good attacker we do have got injured, and we’re having to play Bruno in midfield because we don’t have any other creativity there.

You don’t have to over value the squad just to rip into the manager pal
I dont agree. That squad playing a nice 4231 is capable of a hell of a lot more than the shite we have been seeing. Also most players have become worse under Amorim instead of better.
 
Agree with this 100%
When Amorim took over, this was our squad

Altay Bayindir
Tom Heaton
Andre Onana

Victor Lindelof
Noussair Mazraoui
Matthijs de Ligt
Maguire
Lisandro Martinez
Leny Yoro
Luke Shaw
Diogo Dalot
Evans

Mason Mount
Christian Eriksen
Casemiro
Manuel Ugarte
Kobbie Mainoo
Harry Amass
Bruno Fernandes

Antony
Rashford
Sancho
Rasmus Hojlund
Joshua Zirkzee
Amad Diallo
Garnacho
Chido Obi

+1 player in the transfer window

That is not a squad that should be 14th with the lowest points tally in our Premier League history.


He hasn't motivated or made any players better. Many have become worse, though. I would expect a manager that we want to keep for many years to come, to be able to get a tune out of that squad before heavily investing in him. He couldn't.

It’s laughable to post that squad as though that’s what he had to work with. Do you actually follow United or are you just purposefully talking absolute bollocks? The following players have been injured or loaned out for the majority of his time here:

Lindelof
Maguire
Martinez
Shaw
Evans
Mount
Mainoo
Antony
Rashford
Sancho
Diallo

If you told any of us when Ten Hag let that we’d have those injuries and loans, when we were already garbage, I bet many would have predicted a crap season and many were already talking about the prospect of relegation. I think if you want to have a balanced argument and criticise the guy, at least stick to reality.
 
I dont agree. That squad playing a nice 4231 is capable of a hell of a lot more than the shite we have been seeing. Also most players have become worse under Amorim instead of better.

Worse than they were under ETH?

Maguire
Ugarte
Casemiro
Amad
Zirkzee
Bruno
Yoro

All above have improved. Then there’s a few who I would say have at least kept their level such as De Ligt, Mazraoui, Eriksen (bar physical decline), Onana (still shit), Antony whilst he was here was about the same level.

Then there’s a raft of players who have barely played due to loans and injury.

Ten Hag left us in 14th in the league and on our way out in the EL. I don’t know what you envisage when you look back on the team ETH was leaving.
 
It’s laughable to post that squad as though that’s what he had to work with. Do you actually follow United or are you just purposefully talking absolute bollocks? The following players have been injured or loaned out for the majority of his time here:

Lindelof
Maguire
Martinez
Shaw
Evans
Mount
Mainoo
Antony
Rashford
Sancho
Diallo

If you told any of us when Ten Hag let that we’d have those injuries and loans, when we were already garbage, I bet many would have predicted a crap season and many were already talking about the prospect of relegation. I think if you want to have a balanced argument and criticise the guy, at least stick to reality.
I said that's the squad he had when he took over. Injured or loaned out happened later. I don't think he should have loaned out players without a replacement either.
A proper 4231 (not the madness ETH had us playing) with good coaching, wingers and Bruno getting balls into Rasmus I think we would have done a lot better.
 
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Are you having your own worst post competition with yourself? This is even worse than the one about Wolfsburg. Well done I guess.
What's so terrible about it? Amorim lost 5-1 at home to ETH the one time they came up against each other. Havent we used such versus between managers before?
Im not saying who's done a better job at United.
 
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What's so terrible about it? Amorim lost 5-1 at home to ETH the one time they came up against each other. Havent we used such versus between managers before?
Im not saying who's done a better job at United.

Because the question is who is a better manager and you know that one off/two off results are near meaningless when answering that question because squads, form and luck etc all make it insignificant when assessing two manager's abilities. ETH had been there for three full seasons and Amorim one full season too, which surely plays a part. There are just too many variables and not enough games played between them. Better to look at what they both did before coming to United. So far I'd say Amorim's achievements were more impressive but fairly comparable in how dominant ETH had Ajax playing. With United, ETH achieved more obviously but it's too early to say if Amorim will get us playing well and competing.
 
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Amorim has a defined system and playing style.

Eth and ole rely more on star power to save them from time to time but they don't have proper system of playing.
 
I think if we got a manager who shamelessly plays a low block and counter-attack, we would be much higher up the table. Like what Ole did initially. Then we signed Ronaldo who does not have the legs for that style of play and Ole modified his style to the team's detriment. Since we want to play the more progressive possession-based football by Amorim, then we need to buy the players to support this style. There is no other way.
 
Newcastle are currently so much better in terms of players. Compare their midfield to ours, no wonder we lost
yes this gets ignored too easily. The whole team was way more physocal than us and bullied us throughout the whole game, especially in midfield where they have 2-3 top class CMs.
 
They had not won the league in 19 years. I could use the same logic and say winning the league with Aberdeen is a piece of piss because the league is shite.

I suspect most of you nay sayers will be disappointed when we start looking like a footballing side next season, and probably livid when we start playing like a big club the season after. Imagine what we could have done instead by milking what we could from the mishmash of average players here by adopting a pragmatic short-termist approach.

I don't give credence to anything domestically in these lesser leagues until it's replicated in Europe or a stronger league. It's like Steve McClaren winning the Dutch league with Twente. We don't have a league where City, Liverpool and Arsenal basically lose their best players every year.

What has Amorim done in Europe or England? Very little. SAF had European success with Aberdeen. Ten Hag took Ajax to within a minute of the CL final.

It's not being a hater to not have blind belief in a hockey stick improvement next season. There's literally nothing to suggest we are going to improve apart from injury returns & hope on transfers and assuming everyone else stands still.
 
Amorim has a defined system and playing style.

Eth and ole rely more on star power to save them from time to time but they don't have proper system of playing.

Yes.
After many years of Vibes FC, we have a manager who implements a style and culture back in the club, but people on redcafe want him gone because they miss the "we occasionally achieve results on the counter" top 6 struggle.

And no, the manager shouldn't adapt to available players. Players should adapt to what the manager demands.
If not, they can feck off.

Imagine wishing for yet another manager to please and protect the likes of Rashy.
 
Does it change what I said? Why pay managers millions if the only way to improve a team is to sign better players? Are Newcastle more or less than the sum of their parts? Did Newcastle get worse after Howe took over?
When Howe took over they brought in 5 players at the same time.

He joined in November and had 1 win in their first 9 games until the end of January when results improved, coincidentally around the same time of 5 new signings.
 
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When Howe took over they brought in 5 players at the same time.
3 of them were Dan Burn, Matt Targett and Chris Wood. Trippier and Guimaraes certainly were top signings though. Does that mean he didn’t turn Joelinton from a shit striker into a good midfielder? Why can’t you answer the other questions? Do you think a manager can only pick a team?
 
3 of them were Dan Burn, Matt Targett and Chris Wood. Trippier and Guimaraes certainly were top signings though. Does that mean he didn’t turn Joelinton from a shit striker into a good midfielder? Why can’t you answer the other questions? Do you think a manager can only pick a team?
As edited above, they had one win in the first 9 games before 5 new signings. Quality of players makes far more difference than any manager. Yes Joelinton improved under him.
 
Amorim has a defined system and playing style.

Eth and ole rely more on star power to save them from time to time but they don't have proper system of playing.

Understand the sentiment but both Ole and Eth have achieved more domestically then Amorim.

Postecoglu has a defined system at Tottenham, a system stands for very little unless it yields success.
 
I think if we got a manager who shamelessly plays a low block and counter-attack, we would be much higher up the table. Like what Ole did initially. Then we signed Ronaldo who does not have the legs for that style of play and Ole modified his style to the team's detriment. Since we want to play the more progressive possession-based football by Amorim, then we need to buy the players to support this style. There is no other way.
Ole played counter attacking football against the best teams, City, Liverpool, PSG etc. He was realistic enough to understand that we have no chance to dominate those.
Against the worst teams we tried to build and dominate, the tactics weren't always spot on, but we got the results.
 
Understand the sentiment but both Ole and Eth have achieved more domestically then Amorim.

Postecoglu has a defined system at Tottenham, a system stands for very little unless it yields success.

They had longer to achieve more. Both inherited far better squads too. A lot of the problems we currently face is due to the poor signings made under their tenures.
 
As edited above, they had one win in the first 9 games before 5 new signings. Quality of players makes far more difference than any manager. Yes Joelinton improved under him.
Then we might as well hire a manager from the Championship and spend the money elsewhere.
 
They had longer to achieve more. Both inherited far better squads too. A lot of the problems we currently face is due to the poor signings made under their tenures.

Not necessarily, I think squad quality is an oversimplification especially with Erik's first season. Won the cup and finished top four with Fred, Anthony, Weghorst and Sabitzer playing often the only position which had a definitive upgrade was a routinely fit Varane in defence.

Amorim inherited a team that lacked balance but he increased that level of disorder by allowing players to leave. Irrespective of the reasons it weakened the team.
 
Not necessarily, I think squad quality is an oversimplification especially with Erik's first season. Won the cup and finished top four with Fred, Anthony, Weghorst and Sabitzer playing often the only position which had a definitive upgrade was a routinely fit Varane in defence.

Amorim inherited a team that lacked balance but he increased that level of disorder by allowing players to leave. Irrespective of the reasons it weakened the team.
Yeah, this part is overlooked because it doesn’t fit the narrative in his defence. One of the reasons our squad is threadbare is that he decided to get rid of several attacking players, knowing he probably wouldn’t get any replacements. We could have done with Rashford this spring, for instance.
 
The improvements are so minuscule though and in that same period we lost to Forrest (good team i know), and got knocked out of the cup by Fulham.

This is the worrying part for me. What if he doesn't get the players how long do we persist with him? Everything coming out around are transfers is the budgets thin, so say he gets 5/6 out and 3/4 in surely that's not enough? The form he's showing with this squad is near relegation level and surely quite a few of them are going to be here next year and the fact we've seen zero improvement from anyone, barring maybe Bruno that's terrifying to me.

On Arteta he was hardly competing against bums Pep's City was a freak of nature. Don't expect Amorim to be competing with Pep or Slot but surely there's a middle ground and at this moment he's competing with RVN Leicester.
I do agree some of the results are definitely troubling, but I think that also goes with a lack of quality as teams know we cannot break them down so just drop into a low block.

3/4 really good signings can be transformative, we currently have no threat in attack, you add in a ST the opposition CBs have to mark and think about running in behind means they can't compact the pitch as much leaving more space in midfield, this is exactly what Newcastle did to us on Sunday.

A CM who can progress play through passes and carries, look at the difference having Bruno & Mainoo in CM at Anfield looked when we caused them problems, meaning we can beat a press and turn defence into attack quickly.

A CAM who not only creates for others but finishes off chances created for them, how many times this season have we got on a counter and one of our front 3 has made the wrong decision or missed an easy chance piling pressure on us not taking the lead.

Finally a RWB with pace who can beat his man and deliver accurate crosses, such as Amad early on when he was played at RWB.

These would really level up this team and give the opposition something to thing about, as currently we offer no threat or pace in behind so teams can just press high or sit back knowing we cannot cause any problems, this is summed up in the Forest game when Maguire had a better XG than Hojlund, when he played as a ST in the 10 mins he was upfront than Hojlund has all season.

I think we have to recruit players who suit his positions but also not specialists so for all of those bar RWB that can either be a RB or a RW in a 4 ATB system, any new manager would want to upgrade them, we have to give him the summer otherwise, why have we offloaded all out attack and hamstrung him in some ways, made an ultimatum it is now or never to start this process this season so we don't waste next season to then give him the bullet and start it all over again.
 
I'm still a huge believer (because really, what else can you do at this stage) but even Villa last night just seemed to have a much more balanced system. As in - when they attack, there are 4 players around to do something, and when they defend, there are at least 6.

We somehow always seem both light in attacking numbers AND have to few midfielders protecting the defense in transition. It's genuinely bizarre.

PSG on the other hand can just play with 3 men forward because each of them can beat a solo defender - a huge luxury we used to have, but haven't in years.
 
Yeah, this part is overlooked because it doesn’t fit the narrative in his defence. One of the reasons our squad is threadbare is that he decided to get rid of several attacking players, knowing he probably wouldn’t get any replacements. We could have done with Rashford this spring, for instance.
We could do with a profligate and demotivated, unsettled player? One who publicly states he wants out?

If it was Rooney, Cantona or Ronaldo, yeah, I'd agree but Rashford isn't worth appeasing that way.