Feedingseagulls
Full Member
I'm very glad the world is not filled by Nomes, Brads, peters etc.I'm just glad Old Trafford isn't filled with 76,000 FeedingSeagulls.
Warms the cockels that does.
It makes daily life bearable for most.
I'm very glad the world is not filled by Nomes, Brads, peters etc.I'm just glad Old Trafford isn't filled with 76,000 FeedingSeagulls.
Warms the cockels that does.
Stupidest thing I've ever read. I hope you're just using that to back up your current argument rather than actually believing it.The club would exist without the fans.
They would not be able to afford these great players that you mention...but there would still be players and some people would still continue to watch.
There would still be a club - maybe one languishing in the lower leagues...but there would still be a club.It'd be gone within a year, if 50% (possibly less) of the fans fecked off.
£600M+ debt + half of income from fans = no club.
Hope this helps.
Attitude to the fans, get it?How is it nail on the head when you have no fecking idea what his attitude is??
Not sure if you read the interview with Evra in the Guardian - he rates Ronaldo as one of his closest friends at United.
But I guess he fails to spot Ronaldo's attitude...
Their loyalty was not betrayed - their desperate clinging emotions maybe.In our current position they are. They disappear, the club disappears.
But thats a different argument.
The fans pay for their right to express themselves as they see fit, when their loyalty is betrayed, did you really think the majority would sit there and let it slip by unnoticed?
In fairness having attended games with two off that list, I'd happily have a stadium full of them, at least then we may get a few decent songs going...I'm very glad the world is not filled by Nomes, Brads, peters etc.
It makes daily life bearable for most.
A club with no stadium, no players and no fans?There would still be a club - maybe one languishing in the lower leagues...but there would still be a club.
Well said (whole post).Since I live in The Netherlands now, I did indeed watch it on tv.
As for his attitude on the pitch...I'm not sure if you're mistaking him waving his hands around if he's been fouled for demonstrations of his attitude?
I saw someone who is short of fitness, but didn't stop running to try and create opportunities (either for himself, or through his movement, for others). Granted, he did not chase back as much as Rooney...but then he never did.
With regard to his (lack of) celebration, it is pretty apparent that that he never overtly celebrates when he is either disappointed with his own performance, or when he feels it is not a significant accomplishment - you only had to witness that last season.
No all he needed to do was state his intentions at the start of the summer.Their loyalty was not betrayed - their desperate clinging emotions maybe.
I take it he was on the money then?You've got a classic middle class perspective on it all - it's a spectacle that you pay to view or purchase as an entertainment not an experience that you are part of.
You can gauge his attitude by the way he acts on the pitch, which we have 5 years experience of now. To be fair I'm glad he is keeping low profile, maybe he realises the error of his ways, or maybe he's biding his time till the summer. I would be well pissed off if he was walking around with that cocky arrogant smug look on his face he had last season.How is it nail on the head when you have no fecking idea what his attitude is??
Not sure if you read the interview with Evra in the Guardian - he rates Ronaldo as one of his closest friends at United.
But I guess he fails to spot Ronaldo's attitude...
The match day attendance in Italian league has been falling for the last 15 years, yet the revenues of the top clubs grow. The English league has more money and has been more popular over the last few years because its been marketed better and the fact that the best foreign talent like Ronaldo, Fabregas, Torres are now playing for English clubs.It'd be gone within a year, if 50% (possibly less) of the fans fecked off.
£600M+ debt + half of income from fans = no club.
Hope this helps.
Actually no - the club in terms of its structure and teams reflecting the fans and its culture are the life and soul of the club.How would the club exist without the fans?
How would the club buy these great players without the fans?
The fans are the lifeblood and the soul of the club, but that is the thing you don't understand, to you it's just a day out at the theatre
If a club had no fans there would be no club. It's not rocket science.There would still be a club - maybe one languishing in the lower leagues...but there would still be a club.
I know that, it was said in a hypothetical situation.50% of the fans are unlikely to feck off overnight. Even if there is a gradual decline in match going attendance, clubs will continue to grow.
I think it runs deeper than that. Where I sit there is definately an anti-ronaldo vibe. The people round me were reluctant to join in.One of the reasons people aren't singing Viva Ronaldo as much as last season because he hasn't been as good as last season. When he scored people did sing Viva Ronaldo.
And it's that attitude that will be the eventual demise of football as we know it and into the souless charade that you seem to want it to become.Actually no - the club in terms of its structure and teams reflecting the fans and its culture are the life and soul of the club.
The fans are a much smaller part in creating that culture than you would like to imagine.
They do not play no part - but they play a much smaller part than you want to believe. Fans are essentially followers - others start the trends they follow. Having followed those trends for a bit (together with the rest of the club) it establishes a 'history'.
Thinking of fans as really important is just a form of self-delusion.
That's because I don't think like a 'normal' fan - facts and sensible motivation are more important to me than over-emotional one-eyed judgement.I do like reading your post FS. Now and again I understand some of the big words and part understand what your babeling on about.
I do think your views on this situation are a bit strange and not what I would expect a normal football fan.
Except it would be perfectly possible for a club to have different sorts of fans - maybe even a theatre crowd that you would hate - they wouldn't make the demands you do on the club so wouldn't be 'fans' in your sense - but they'd contribute to the coffers.But then the club would have fans
What if no one went to watch?
What would the club be then?
A sausage fest I would imagine
Fantastic post...well done.A club with no stadium, no players and no fans?
fecking hell...
I couldn't see what was wrong with the goal and now I've watched the MOTD highlights I'm still non-the wiser.That's because I don't think like a 'normal' fan - facts and sensible motivation are more important to me than over-emotional one-eyed judgement.
Doesn't stop me from being passionate at the game though. (Have to say I used the word c*nt for the first time in many moons over the disallowed Rooney goal - at the ref obviously!)
That assumes, erroneously, that Ronaldo had definitely decided at some early point rather than making probable decisions which depended on the actions of others ('not up to him' remember).No all he needed to do was state his intentions at the start of the summer.
We thought he had done this with the 'I stay' in Moscow, but no we had a roller coaster of a ride over the summer, where nobody new where he was going to be playing come august.
A club is not formed to attract fans...it is about combining like-minded individuals.If a club had no fans there would be no club. It's not rocket science.
I agree with this, and most of what else you say here to be fair.Fantastic post...well done.
I did not propose that there would be no players - my use of the word "club" would seem to suggest that players would be in presence.
I just really wanted to counter some of the grandiose statements made by some people who feel that they are the real lifeblood of the team.
To me, the players are the lifeblood.
What attracted me to Manchester United was not the the thousands of fans who sung their lungs out every game they saw, it was the players. My favorite player when I was younger was Bryan Robson - to me he was United.
The reason I have got myself involved in this debate regarding Ronaldo is that he is a player who gets me on the edge of my seat every time he gets the ball.
As mentioned in a previous post - I watch every United game on TV now that I live abroad. Even from across the channel, you can still hear the whole of OT take a breath when the ball gets passed to him.
As it should be.
As it was with Giggs.
As it was with Best (from what I've heard - unfortunately never saw him in person).
One of my favourite quotes from George Best is when he said that over the years there are many players that have been compared to him... but with Ronaldo it is the first time he's taken that as a compliment.
That's why Ronaldo has my support.
If he said I stay then, why did he change this response so many times over the summer?That assumes, erroneously, that Ronaldo had definitely decided at some early point rather than making probable decisions which depended on the actions of others ('not up to him' remember).
Given that there were a number of unknowns, was there anything he could say that was more accurate than what he did?
I suggest not!
Your desire for more definite information would have required a lie or a guess - and then you'd have howled like a demented hound if events turned out otherwise.
Do you really think united would attact 75,000 from the theatre set?Except it would be perfectly possible for a club to have different sorts of fans - maybe even a theatre crowd that you would hate - they wouldn't make the demands you do on the club so wouldn't be 'fans' in your sense - but they'd contribute to the coffers.
Somewhere between these extremes exist many possibilities with people you may not classify as 'fans'.
If we were lower league then a wealthy benefactor could obviate (look it up) the need for any such fans as you would recognise.
Looking back I could have worded my post a bit better.A club is not formed to attract fans...it is about combining like-minded individuals.
The fans come later...if at all.
It may not be rocket science, but the concept seems to have launched over your head.
Fair dues and nice post.I agree with this, and most of what else you say here to be fair.
But if we had a serious reduction in fans, we'd loose everything we know at our club now.
I can understand why people do support Ronaldo, and don't get me wrong I love watching him with the ball, theres no one better, and I wish he'd of taken a leaf out of Wayne's book and just got on with the football, and not worry about this 'dream move' and go on about it all summer. It will happen we've known that for a few years, however, he should of respected he has a contract and this was not up for negotiation over the past summer.
I replied to the substantive point not the personal accusation.I see you didn't reply to Peter here Feeding,
I take it he was on the money then?
Which is, as usual, wrong.ps said:You've got a classic middle class perspective on it all - it's a spectacle that you pay to view or purchase as an entertainment not an experience that you are part of.
Thats fair enough, this is why I love football, so much to debate, and so many different opinions.Fair dues and nice post.
I love my job...and could not be enticed to make an equivalent switch for life nor money.
However, I do not and cannot hold everyone I work with to the same standard (how can I pretend to accurately know exactly what motivates them?).
So in my eyes, while my loyalty may be G Neville-like, I do not hold everyone else to the same standard. However, I would expect that they give their all while in their current position.
As long as Ronaldo does this then I will continue to support him and look forward to his creativity on the pitch.
Fair enough - can't argue with your revised statement!Looking back I could have worded my post a bit better.
How about:
If our club had no fans then it would cease to exist as we know it.
Where have I said I want it to be soul-less? I just want people not to turn off their rationality circuits when it comes to this subject.And it's that attitude that will be the eventual demise of football as we know it and into the souless charade that you seem to want it to become.
It's refreshing to be able to have a rationale debate about these matters too - even at this time on a Sunday!Thats fair enough, this is why I love football, so much to debate, and so many different opinions.
It's refreshing to be able to have a rationale debate about these matters too - even at this time on a Sunday!
I'm not comfortable with comparing a footballers employment with that of an average joe working monday-friday 9 till 5.Fair dues and nice post.
I love my job...and could not be enticed to make an equivalent switch for life nor money.
However, I do not and cannot hold everyone I work with to the same standard (how can I pretend to accurately know exactly what motivates them?).
So in my eyes, while my loyalty may be G Neville-like, I do not hold everyone else to the same standard. However, I would expect that they give their all while in their current position.
As long as Ronaldo does this then I will continue to support him and look forward to his creativity on the pitch.
I'm not to sure about that...the Glazer's decision making as they'd like.
But this is entirely down to your inability to examine the facts as facts as opposed to undiagnosed stimuli to your emotions.I couldn't see what was wrong with the goal and now I've watched the MOTD highlights I'm still non-the wiser.
I think it's evident you don't think like the average football fan, each to their own and all that. The fact is thousands of united fans like me, brad, manx, etc, are not as forensic as you when looking at the situation and Ronaldo would be extremely naive to think he could run around OT this season smelling of roses after his summer shenanigans.
See earlier posts tbh - all responses were entirely consistent with different expectations at diffferent times that rely on decisions by others.If he said I stay then, why did he change this response so many times over the summer?