Panorama: Man United - Into the Red, BBC One, Tuesday, 8 June

[andersred]

The point about a full house for Newcastle related just to that game. I'd suspect a decent number of empty seats as the season went on, more if we have a poor season.
As for the relative value of ST certainty vs selling match by match, just look at the increased number of STs and the compulsory ACS and then ask yourself which they prefer!

My argument is very simple. Threaten the level and certainty of the only income stream supporters can influence and this will increase the chances of them selling up.

 

[Rood]

So let me see one the one hand I have ST money which I collect in advance vs an unreliable income stream.

Taking your plan to a logical conclusion then why wouldnt the Glazers just not sell any ST and wait for people to buy on the day. Your logic would dicatte they would earn more.

Seriously its not even an argument more than an exercise in futility. Heck I could make an argument for Greece as a bastion of good governance doesn't mean its true.

What the feck are you talking about? You are starting to piss me off with your clueless comments to be honest.
I have not suggested any plan or logic - just commented on the plan and rationale for not renewing as put forward by Andersred. If you are going to just twist what i said into something completely different then there is no point in wasting my time on discussion with you.

Andersred said that he expected the ground to be full for Newcastle but that ST sales would be down - that means more One United members buying tickets and maybe General Sale tickets if members do not take them all - do you deny this would make the Glazers more money for that particular match?

 

[ciderman9000000]

My argument is very simple.

You can say that again.

 

[Commadus]

What the feck are you talking about? You are starting to piss me off with your clueless comments to be honest.
I have not suggested any plan or logic - just commented on the plan and rationale for not renewing as put forward by Andersred. If you are going to just twist what i said into something completely different then there is no point in wasting my time on discussion with you.

Andersred said that he expected the ground to be full for Newcastle but that ST sales would be down - that means more One United members buying tickets and maybe General Sale tickets if members do not take them all - do you deny this would make the Glazers more money for that particular match?

Mate you talk rubbish. I questioned your logic as it was weak - handle it.

Your argument was weak and now you are backtracking from "over the course of the season" to one match, which is the the first in the season.
Also your assumption is that all ST not sold will be bought.

could actually end up making the Glazers more money over the course of the season.

 

[Rood]

Note the word 'could' - I put it forward as a possibility, I made no argument to say it was probable.
For the specific Newcastle match it is undeniable that it would make the Glazers more money.

The assumption was not mine - it was Andersred's

Keep up 'mate'.

 

[andersred]

You can say that again.

Simple but not one you'll engage with, instead you make weird points about my "right" to make it.

 

[Sir A1ex]

You really do believe everything the papers tell you, don't you? When the biggest story of the last twenty years was Woolworths closing, you really know your country's in the fecking shit! Do you really think the country's in a mess? Have you ever heard of the plight of people from less fortunate parts of the world? Ah, but the Daily Mail says we're fecked though, eh? You're right, fred, it's like bloody Bosnia living here in this dump; i'm sick and tired of all this democracy and freedom!

So you clearly don't agree with the chancellor, who only yesterday evening I saw on TV saying:

'this country faces a very, very serious debt problem.'
'The damage to the economy, the people losing their jobs, will come if we do not sort out our problems in this country'
'The hole in the public finances was so great and the debts were so large, and people at home know, if you have got a debt problem, you have got to deal with it.'

Or did the Daily Heil make that up?

 

[robertsoncrusoe]

You go around reading people's posts and nit-picking them a lot, don't you? You find a minor discrepancy, maybe a suspected misused word or intonation, and you nit-pick at it; it wouldn't be as bad, except whether you're correct seems hit and miss. Have you ever considered adding something original to the forum yourself rather than being content to simply go over everyone else's posts and find little criticisms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by andersred
My argument is very simple.

You can say that again.

 

[GCHQ]

The point about a full house for Newcastle related just to that game. I'd suspect a decent number of empty seats as the season went on, more if we have a poor season.
As for the relative value of ST certainty vs selling match by match, just look at the increased number of STs and the compulsory ACS and then ask yourself which they prefer!

My argument is very simple. Threaten the level and certainty of the only income stream supporters can influence and this will increase the chances of them selling up.

I have a very simple question for you Anders. Would you be satisfied with a very poor season on the pitch if it contributed to putting significantly more pressure on the Glazers to sell?

Your argument is simple and what you're suggesting is an extreme measure. I therefore feel justified in labeling yourself and others of a similar mindset as extremists.

 

[mickthered]

Well, if you suspect that a dog has it in him to kill a baby, you don't then dangle a baby in front of it just to make sure; and if you do, who's to blame for the baby's death, the dog or yourself?

Most sane people would get rid of the dog in the first first place

Not keep feeding it and then hoping it does not get near the baby

 

[Sir A1ex]

I have a very simple question for you Anders. Would you be satisfied with a very poor season on the pitch if it contributed to putting significantly more pressure on the Glazers to sell?

Your argument is simple and what you're suggesting is an extreme measure. I therefore feel justified in labeling yourself and others of a similar mindset as extremists.

One bad season to ensure the long term future of the club? Sounds like a no brainer to all but the most short-sited fool

God knows how I've ended up referencing George Osbourne twice in as many posts but isn't that just what governments around the world are having to do right now to try and avoid worse problems further down the line?

 

[GCHQ]

One bad season to ensure the long term future of the club? Sounds like a no brainer to all but the most short-sited fool

God knows how I've ended up referencing George Osbourne twice in as many posts but isn't that just what governments around the world are having to do right now to try and avoid worse problems further down the line?

Oh for god's sake.

Secure the long term future of the club? The long term future of the club is secure which is why it would be fecking stupid to boycott the club when there are no fundamental problems with the club's/Red Football's finances.

You're obviously never going to accept or admit that though, don't worry I'm well aware of that. So it will be left to the passing of time to ultimately prove you wrong. Five years gone so far. Your MUST boys and girls said in 2005 that it would all be over within three years. They were bullshitters then and they're still bullshitters now. Just like yourself.

 

[Crerand Legend]

Oh for god's sake.

Secure the long term future of the club? The long term future of the club is secure which is why it would be fecking stupid to boycott the club when there are no fundamental problems with the club's/Red Football's finances.

You're obviously never going to accept or admit that though, don't worry I'm well aware of that. So it will be left to the passing of time to ultimately prove you wrong. Five years gone so far. Your MUST boys and girls said in 2005 that it would all be over within three years. They were bullshitters then and they're still bullshitters now. Just like yourself.

Really the totally unbiest BBC who no doubt subjected their info to all sort of scrutiny before broadcasting also disagreed with what you say. The bottom line is the profits of Manchester United including the proceeds of selling our greatest asset have disappeared down the Glazer interest plughole, and the Beeb said so

 

[Bearded but no genius]

One bad season to ensure the long term future of the club? Sounds like a no brainer to all but the most short-sited fool

God knows how I've ended up referencing George Osbourne twice in as many posts but isn't that just what governments around the world are having to do right now to try and avoid worse problems further down the line?

Only short sighted fools would start taking action before they knew exactly what they were getting into.

It seems there's a lot of them about right now on both sides of the argument.

 

[Transfer United Till I Die]

Really the totally unbiest BBC who no doubt subjected their info to all sort of scrutiny before broadcasting also disagreed with what you say. The bottom line is the profits of Manchester United including the proceeds of selling our greatest asset have disappeared down the Glazer interest plughole, and the Beeb said so

Um, no they didn't. They actually didn't say that at all.

 

[Sir A1ex]

The long term future of the club is secure.

So why did you ask the question?

Either you believe everything is OK, in which case of course you wouldn't opt for a poor season, or you don't in which case a bad season is a small price to pay to sort it out.

And we know where you stand on that question and where Andy does, so I ask again what were you getting at with the question?

 

[Transfer United Till I Die]

What about having a shit season and they still don't feck off?

 

[Sir A1ex]

What about having a shit season and they still don't feck off?

And doesn't put them any closer to doing so? Well, no, that wouldn't be very helpful. But that's not what GCHQ asked.

 

[Crerand Legend]

Um, no they didn't. They actually didn't say that at all.

They didnt did they? ok what did they say then? All in the garden rosy perhaps?

 

[andersred]

So why did you ask the question?

Either you believe everything is OK, in which case of course you wouldn't opt for a poor season, or you don't in which case a bad season is a small price to pay to sort it out.

And we know where you stand on that question and where Andy does, so I ask again what were you getting at with the question?

He asked the question in the rather sad attempt to paint me into a corner. He wants to be able to say that people like me would actually like United to lose and that therefore I'm an extremist weirdo, compared to normal, upright fans like him.

Sadly I won't give him the satisfaction. It's impossible to want your team to lose. I'd point him to those who stopped going in 2005, to the dedicated FCers who crowd the pubs of Bury before or after FCUM games if United are on the TV.

I suspect GCHQ has quite firm political views, judging from his "Scargills' children" comment and some weird shit he posted on my blog a while back (under his late lamented Eaststand nom de plume) about my ideological leanings. Labelling people you don't agree with as "extremists" is an old dependable right wing trick!

 

[Crerand Legend]

He asked the question in the rather sad attempt to paint me into a corner. He wants to be able to say that people like me would actually like United to lose and that therefore I'm an extremist weirdo, compared to normal, upright fans like him.

Sadly I won't give him the satisfaction. It's impossible to want your team to lose. I'd point him to those who stopped going in 2005, to the dedicated FCers who crowd the pubs of Bury before or after FCUM games if United are on the TV.

I suspect GCHQ has quite firm political views, judging from his "Scargills' children" comment and some weird shit he posted on my blog a while back (under his late lamented Eaststand nom de plume) about my ideological leanings. Labelling people you don't agree with as "extremists" is an old dependable right wing trick!

To be honest he is close to getting out of order

 

[Sir A1ex]

He asked the question in the rather sad attempt to paint me into a corner. He wants to be able to say that people like me would actually like United to lose and that therefore I'm an extremist weirdo, compared to normal, upright fans like him.

Yup, that's what I was trying to highlight.

The question served no purpose other than to try and push this totally fatuous idea that he is the sane majority, and you are a crazed minority.

 

[Transfer United Till I Die]

They didnt did they? ok what did they say then? All in the garden rosy perhaps?

The programme highlighted the current troubles being experienced by first allied and largely focused on the fact that united will have to pay off the piks, which we already know. To say that "all of our profits are going on glazer interest" is however bollocks and not what was said at all. In fact, as andersred wil tell you, ebitda needs to be twice interest payments, representing a £45-50m clear profit after interest, before the glazers can take their £25m dividend. To say therefore that all of our profits are going on interest is bollocks. A lot yes, all no, not by a long way.

 

[Bearded but no genius]

To be honest he is close to getting out of order

In what way?

In that he doesn't agree with you?

 

[Transfer United Till I Die]

In what way?

In that he doesn't agree with you?

Crerands like the Iranian morality police. It's best not to question.

 

[ciderman9000000]

Simple but not one you'll engage with, instead you make weird points about my "right" to make it.

I'm not questioning your right to give advice, just your decision to when you don't seem able to justify it. I've engaged your argument a number of times and the answers you give are less than satisfactory; you don't seem to know yourself exactly why you advocate boycotts, and you pretend ignorance to any risks involved. I believe your advise to be worthless if you cannot yourself justify it.

 

[andersred]

you don't seem to know yourself exactly why you advocate boycotts

Don't be obtuse.

Threaten the level and certainty of the only income stream supporters can influence and this will increase the chances of them selling up.

You may not agree, but there's my argument (again) in 23 words.

 

[Crerand Legend]

In what way?

In that he doesn't agree with you?

Read some of his post's on the last two pages

 

[Crerand Legend]

The programme highlighted the current troubles being experienced by first allied and largely focused on the fact that united will have to pay off the piks, which we already know. To say that "all of our profits are going on glazer interest" is however bollocks and not what was said at all. In fact, as andersred wil tell you, ebitda needs to be twice interest payments, representing a £45-50m clear profit after interest, before the glazers can take their £25m dividend. To say therefore that all of our profits are going on interest is bollocks. A lot yes, all no, not by a long way.

£430 m is not alot?, you could nearly have bought Liverpool FC and closed them down. Are you telling me that the Panorama progamme was not damning of the Glazer handling of Manchester United then.

 

[Crerand Legend]

Crerands like the Iranian morality police. It's best not to question.

He is your mate I was actually trying to do him a favour by telling him to stick to his financial talk and avoid slagging people off and making false accusation about the Guardian which were totally out of order. The Iranian morality police that is a new one, you defenders of Glazer policy are really letting this all get to you

 

[ciderman9000000]

@ "making false accusation about the Guardian which were totally out of order."

ffs you're a nob, Crerand.

 

[Crerand Legend]

@ "making a false accusation about the Guardian which were totally out of order."

ffs you're a nob, Crerand.

Your nit picking, do you try and insult prople in all your post's Cider, Im sure you can help for that anger. Pick up a pamphlet at your local health centre they can help you. Thank me later

 

[ciderman9000000]

Your nit picking, do you try and insult prople in all your post's Cider, Im sure you can help for that anger. Pick up a pamphlet at your local health centre they can help you. Thank me later

Wanna learn something, Dumbo? Plurals don't have apostrophes in them. You write like a child.

 

[Lynk]

I can't believe we're still talking about this shit documentary almost 3 weeks after it was shown. =p

 

[Crerand Legend]

Wanna learn something, Dumbo? Plurals don't have apostrophes in them. You write like a child.

Sticks and stones Cider. Now why dont you go out and play with the other kids and let the adults talk about how big a mess the Glazers have made of Manchester United which this thread is supposed to be about, backed up by info from the BBC. You really cant take it when you are wrong about things can you?

 

[ciderman9000000]

Sticks and stones Cider. Now why dont you go out and play with the other kids and let the adults talk about how big a mess the Glazers have made of Manchester United which this thread is supposed to be about, backed up by info from the BBC. You really cant take it when you are wrong about things can you?

How old are you?

 

[Crerand Legend]

How old are you?

Old enough to know that it is time we started to ignore each other, other people reading this must be getting fed up, so lets move on and let the thread get back to topic

 

[ciderman9000000]

Old enough to know that it is time we started to ignore each other, other people reading this must be getting fed up, so lets move on and let the thread get back to topic

I'm getting fed up, that's how this started.

Ok, so anyway, what do you think of the Glazers then? Personally i think that MUST have led everyone up the garden path regarding the Glazers, they're nothing like the evil cartoon villains that they've been portrayed to be, but some fans are either too stubborn, too filled with hatred, or just too dumb to realise it.

 

[ralphie88]

I fully expect OT to be full vs. Newcastle

Hmmm... well it certainly won't be full. Probably around 85% bums-on-seats, same as last season for the first match. Loads of ST holders on holiday and not enough interest in viagogo prices from casual fans (which, incidentally, surely suggests that the boycott argument - even though I personally disagree with it - has legs).

I'm not even sure it will be a complete sell-out in terms of tickets sold (I'm sure it will go on general sale). But we'll see soon enough.

 

[Crerand Legend]

If you can find it, there has been alot of threads/posts on these matters, I got called various names for having doubts about MUST/RKs. Hatred is a strong word and I hate the fact the Glazers own the football club, it ends there