Report anything you see that is over the line and we will deal with it.
RedCafe has become toxic as feck.
- Thread starter UnitedSofa
- Start date
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How has your witty observation earlier added anything to this discussion or this forum as a whole? It hasn't. It's just another example of a poster slagging of another one, but you don't even have the decency to address the poster directly, or even in the thread you've taken umbrage with. This is exactly what's causing the toxicity on this forum. Opposing views are a natural. What's not is slagging someone off because you disagree with them.
A resounding win next match and we will be back loving one another again. Here's hoping we beat Newcastle 4-0
It's amusing that people can't see that this is just the flip side of the reactionary toxic nonsense they speak about. No willingness to actually debate so the opposing opinion gets reduced to one of a few phrases. Look how many dismissive reductive categorisations have been posted in this thread.
I see very few attempts by posters to put forward arguments against criticism it's nearly always just attacking the concept of being negative. There's a few who provide some decent analysis but that's it.
If you want some more positive threads then create them rather than just moaning about moaning. In the past we had threads explaining the benefit of the coaches tactics/setup, they weren't always right but at least it was debate. I can't remember the last time I witnessed such a thread.
I see very few attempts by posters to put forward arguments against criticism it's nearly always just attacking the concept of being negative. There's a few who provide some decent analysis but that's it.
If you want some more positive threads then create them rather than just moaning about moaning. In the past we had threads explaining the benefit of the coaches tactics/setup, they weren't always right but at least it was debate. I can't remember the last time I witnessed such a thread.
That's not true at all. What argument is there for the Glazers and Woodward staying? There isn't one.
Having different opinions on the manager, the formation, the scouting, transfers.....fine. That's always going to be differing opinions. I just don't see a single positive about the owners or Woodward. Not even one. I'm sorry.
I think that’s where I am, I’m just nowhere near as emotionally invested in football these days, I don’t know if that’s age or what, maybe because we’re shit? I don’t know but I don’t watch any European football anymore either so my football interest as declined rapidly and I can imagine in another 10 years in my fortites I won’t care at all about it, especially the way the game is going.
I feel bad saying this and most likely wrong but I think football is a kids game, for kids to have heroes and to love the sport, of course it continues and evolves through your teens and twenties and then dies off in your thirties when it’s real life and you’ve more important problems, Like I wouldn’t look twice seeing a kid in a kit in tescos, but a fifty year old bloke Wearing it with a 19year olds name on his shirt just seems strange.
When I see massively irate posts wishing death on people or basically making things up I just assume they’re youngsters with a lot of pent up frustration, maybe I’m totally wrong and there’s 60 year olds on here with the most hate, I dont know though and I’ve actively tried and deleted some replies mid typing as it just seems pointless or too condescending.
in short, there’s a lot of young whiny posters
Or thisHe didn’t have the decency to respond to others. Just moved to his next topic. Opposing views are fine if you’re willing to back them up.
And neither do I, but I'm sure there are people out there that can articulate a reason they support them. I wouldn't dismiss them from outset as you would just because I don't share the same view.
A dangerous and narrow minded way to live your life.
I'm not a prolific poster but I have been here for 16 years now so I've seen almost the entire lifespan of this forum and the last few months is the only time I've ever seriously considered walking away. I hope I'm not speaking out of turn here, but for me its a question for the moderators and owners, and that question is 'what type of forum do you want this to be?'
Its a fine line, because there absolutely should be free speech but this is after all supposed to be a pro-Manchester United place to be and its anything but that at the moment. As has been said threads such as 'predict the date of Oles sacking' and multiple others are unnecessary and add nothing other than yet another thread to bash something, anything, everything. Its tiring to read, and yes those individual threads are easy to avoid but they generate negative momentum and it spreads. Positive threads are quickly overrun by those who feel differently.
I get that sport is reactionary and I get that people like to vent sometimes, but there is no need to be so short-sighted. The Ole-backers were labelled deluded, puppets, on the payroll etc etc for most of last season. Then our form turned around and so many of those posters simply disappeared. Nothing to complain about = no point in posting. We mock Glaston for only coming here when Spurs are winning, but a huge section of posters only come here when United are losing. Its unhealthy and there has to be a better balance. The season has barely started and already people are losing their minds, and its not going to get any better until we start to remove some of these threads that are only there to spread the negativity.
Just my opinion
Its a fine line, because there absolutely should be free speech but this is after all supposed to be a pro-Manchester United place to be and its anything but that at the moment. As has been said threads such as 'predict the date of Oles sacking' and multiple others are unnecessary and add nothing other than yet another thread to bash something, anything, everything. Its tiring to read, and yes those individual threads are easy to avoid but they generate negative momentum and it spreads. Positive threads are quickly overrun by those who feel differently.
I get that sport is reactionary and I get that people like to vent sometimes, but there is no need to be so short-sighted. The Ole-backers were labelled deluded, puppets, on the payroll etc etc for most of last season. Then our form turned around and so many of those posters simply disappeared. Nothing to complain about = no point in posting. We mock Glaston for only coming here when Spurs are winning, but a huge section of posters only come here when United are losing. Its unhealthy and there has to be a better balance. The season has barely started and already people are losing their minds, and its not going to get any better until we start to remove some of these threads that are only there to spread the negativity.
Just my opinion
Probably because it wouldn’t make it past the first few posts before it turns into an Ole bashing thread to be fair
Oh look it's the "stop being negative brigade"...
Surely this forum is a place for fans to talk opening about their feelings towards the club, both positive and negative.
There is a massive difference between toxic and negative, saying you think the manager is nearing the sack and guessing when it will happen isn't toxic.
The mood of the forum reflects that of the fanbase and is ultimately driven by the club's results on and off the pitch.
I really irks me when people have an issue around negativity basically not wanting freedom of speech.
Surely this forum is a place for fans to talk opening about their feelings towards the club, both positive and negative.
There is a massive difference between toxic and negative, saying you think the manager is nearing the sack and guessing when it will happen isn't toxic.
The mood of the forum reflects that of the fanbase and is ultimately driven by the club's results on and off the pitch.
I really irks me when people have an issue around negativity basically not wanting freedom of speech.
Great post, and many of us on here feel the same I am sure!
Agreed. I rarely post here anymore. It's just not fun these days.
We've made loads of progress in 12 months and all I see here it's negativity. It's like a United Stand comment section these days.
I'm not even sure what that makes you mate. Definitely not a true fan though.
How can anyone have any sympathy for them? They saddled this club with THEIR debt and have been destroying us ever since. They were just lucky we had Fergie when they took over otherwise it would have turned sour long long before it did. They have put a man at the helm who has no idea what he's doing and they let him continue to embarrass us every single season. They've let OT get into a terrible state. Some parts of the ground are starting to show their age badly now.
Please tell me their redeeming qualities? I must have missed them.
LUHG !!!
I personally think this is something that needs to be reviewed. You need new blood, and you want new posters, but such a high % seem to post absolute crap.
I don’t know what the answer is.
So you want freedom of speech but also want to remove threads you fundamentally disagree with?
Ok, makes perfect sense. If you don't like the thread title just don't go in it maybe?
To be the honest I find the 'always look at the positives' crowd more annoying, even after an awful display. The result never seems to matter to them. They are often the same people who before a big match such as a cup semi final say they are not bothered about the result. Always quick to write off a defeat as irrelevant.
If a pundit even ex Utd player points out a glaringly obvious flaw with the club and where it is going they act like jilted 12 year girls , Scholes is dead to me , Neville is dead to me , Keane is dead to me etc etc etc.
If a pundit even ex Utd player points out a glaringly obvious flaw with the club and where it is going they act like jilted 12 year girls , Scholes is dead to me , Neville is dead to me , Keane is dead to me etc etc etc.
Funny isnt it and if we get Poch one day, we will have to battle with the likes of Amadeus.
Regarding toxicity, personally, there are here or there vile haters but they are not bothering me, you can ignore it, easy to handle, on other hand oppo side of them, now thats not something you can just sit on a side and ignore it. Best part majority of them are fake as feck, at least haters are real about it.
I agree everything you say and sometimes I am too critical but its because of everything I am seeing unfolding in front of my eyes and I am firmly Ole In, I love Ole and always will no matter what may happen but the same things keep happening over and over again like Groundhog Day. This club is making fans toxic not the other way round friend, and with the information that Poch has been approached whilst Ole finished 3rd last season and done overall okay but trying to reinstall what Sir Alex did with Youth and expressive football is exactly what happened with the last 2 managers. I want this to be a fun place to chat and express my love for this club I have supported all my life and spent a lot of money on Season Tickets over the years, I have met many legends too who share these views too. With the way we have conducted ourselves off the pitch and on it this season we are in for a rocky rollercoaster season and the toxic atmosphere generated by that unfortunately will continue. And the Maguire one was my post which if you read properly am berating him for a 30 second clip but his performance this season, off pitch antics of what happened in Greece and the fact we were seriously ripped off by the 80m price tag we had to pay for him. When he can't shout at other players to hold the line, come out and apologise not on camera but on social media and where I compared him to past captains like I did on my post would you rate him as the BEST captain we have had in years no especially when he was given the captaincy with him being here 5 minutes which no club would ever do. Captaincy should be earnt not just given, if my post came out as aggressive and toxic I apologise I truly do I did not intend for it to come out the way it has. I like Maguire as a person but for what I have watched over the past few months, he did well last season but still some goals in the Semi Finals were avoidable but we move on. It's not fair to say I am merely calling him out over a 30 second clip when I outlined other things he did during the game.
Most of the discussion can go in the manager discussion thread though, why the need for ten threads saying how shit people think Ole is.
The old system seemed to weed out the shite, but giving them access to mains, albeit on a limited basis sees a lot of low level posting.
They also tend to fall into the category of relentlessly positive, whether that's because they think that'll get them promoted quicker I don't know but the quality of football discussion has declined massively in recent years.
I've acknowledged your first paragraph in the quoted post.
But you've highlighted the important issue for me in the bolded sections. For me, the reason I read and later joined the caf was because it was a discussion forum where (to an extent) people could put a point of view out there, other posters would engage with it in reasonably good faith and most (at least the good ones) would provide some degree of evidence to back their point of view. Maybe that's mythologising it a bit, but you could have decent, nuanced conversations with people you disagreed with.
At the moment, no-one looking at the football forums could possibly characterise them as a healthy forum for discussion. Its not that people have opposing views, they always did. But the way people express and engage with those views has devolved into the exact same shit-slinging most of us joined to avoid. Ultimately, discussion entails more than just spewing your opinion into the ether and other people agreeing or disagreeing with it. Discussion requires give and take, it requires the willingness to engage and understand another point of view even if you don't agree with it. Discussion is not waiting until we have a bad result to pop up and lambast the manager/a particular player and gloat over those who supported him before disappearing again when results/performances turn round and the other side have their turn. The ability of posters to engage in good faith is the difference between a good forum and a few thousand people standing on soapboxes screaming over (and at) each other.
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What a thread to put this inI think thats unfair. There is a wide difference between saying 'think like I do' and what this thread is aiming to achieve. There has to be a better balance than there is right now.
It's a place to vent the frustration. They want the best for the team and feel they are being let down. The grim reality that the club have no ambition to win the league is getting to people, especially when they seen years of success and thriving to be the best.
You see that’s the problem, there was no need for that last line.
Repetitive threads are a separate topic and I don't disagree on that point. The point of THIS thread though was around posting negative thoughts on the club.
As long as the posts aren't offensive they should be free to say what they want. If we want fewer negative threads maybe fans should do more to pressure the club in to acting right.
Why?
RedCafe is toxic with anything Pogba related, I've have about 5 or 6 Pogba threads on ignore.
Although I disagree with much of what you say, you are entitled to your view.
However on the "pro Manchester United" aspect, do you view anti-Trump and anti-Brexit sentiments as anti USA/UK/national?
Well a thread about tactics would usually lead to some criticisms of the manager, that's not unusual or unexpected.
If people aren't willing to contribute to the debate because they're concerned about negativity then they can't then complain when that absence causes only negative threads.
This was my concern with hiring a legend from the start. Standard managerial discussion becomes unpalatable when it's a club legend that people like.
Football fandom (especially on the internet) is pure tribalism and it brings the absolute worst out in people. The only type of fandom I can compare it to on that level is gaming culture. Super toxic, super aggressive and not a lot of reasoned discourse. Just for contrast (to show not all football culture is like this) I've always found terrace talk far different. Sure, you'll always get one nutter who's had a few too many before a match getting a bit talkative and slagging off everything from the stewards to the tea lady, but on the whole it's a lot more sensible, and far more tongue in cheek.
As for the Caf; I welcome debate and I welcome the expression of different view points. I don't think it's helpful to exist in an echo chamber. I actually got my full membership during the Moyes era, and I like to think even though we were going through a pretty awful period of change in the club's history, I didn't resort to constantly slagging the man off, or saying he's analogous to... I dunno... cancer (I've seen plenty of those type of posts, and they're not cool).
I don't think it's too difficult to be passionate about a subject, or to make an argument, without thinking the person on the other side of your view point is a moron and I've written plenty of posts in the heat of the moment before giving myself a count to 10, and deleted the whole thing before posting. I'd urge other people to do the same thing. Count to 10, reread your post, and think about what you're actually trying to say.
As for the Caf; I welcome debate and I welcome the expression of different view points. I don't think it's helpful to exist in an echo chamber. I actually got my full membership during the Moyes era, and I like to think even though we were going through a pretty awful period of change in the club's history, I didn't resort to constantly slagging the man off, or saying he's analogous to... I dunno... cancer (I've seen plenty of those type of posts, and they're not cool).
I don't think it's too difficult to be passionate about a subject, or to make an argument, without thinking the person on the other side of your view point is a moron and I've written plenty of posts in the heat of the moment before giving myself a count to 10, and deleted the whole thing before posting. I'd urge other people to do the same thing. Count to 10, reread your post, and think about what you're actually trying to say.
Have been critical of some of the posts on here but this has probably been the best place to air views in recent years.
For the most part, there is a balance and people (again for the most part) are quite civil towards each other.
It certainly beats Twitter and the fan cams.
For the most part, there is a balance and people (again for the most part) are quite civil towards each other.
It certainly beats Twitter and the fan cams.
It's not just RedCafe, it's the current generation in general. Social media is thriving on having "teams" on different sides of arguments and showing content that only fits your agenda. That way it becomes a "safe space" where most posts you see are agreeing with your views, making you come back over and over again and just get into a deeper hole. Everything is now either extreme to one side or extreme to another, totally missing that each side has good arguments and truth is nearly always somewhere in the middle. When you leave that social media bubble and see people with different arguments, it's only natural to feel they are surely wrong, because "everyone in my feed agrees with me".
Idiocracy in real life.
Idiocracy in real life.
Yep. Though since I put a few threads on ignore it looks a lot better. I found that some of the worst threads are essentially the same thing but worded differently are made by the same posters.
I tried to address that point in my post. Its not about removing threads as such, its about finding a balance, and I realise that its far from easy to achieve that, but its also important to try. I'm not a sensitive person, and I don't think everything is rosy at the club at the moment, but its also nowhere near as bad as the general tone of this forum would suggest that it is.
I thought it was about the forum being negative, when you click new posts and you see about ten threads calling out tactics, guessing sacking dates, 3 threads for one player and how shit they are . That just paints a totally negative picture, where really those points could have been put in one specific thread and discussed.
so it may not be abuse but the negatives seem to want to shout the loudest.
Depends where the argument comes from. The OP complains about the toxic nature of the forum while he contributes to it. Just did a quick search in his posting history and already in the first 4-5 pages he calls posters babies, fickle, naive and mocks anyone who doesn't hold his opinion.
I don’t disagree with your post, by bashing I meant unrelated things like farmers league coach, championships level coach, no idea, clueless. You know the hyperbole I’m continually reading on here. It makes me laugh when I read that Ole is clueless. He may not be the Best tactical coach and certainly has flaws but I very much doubt he’s clueless. That’s what I meant but I realise we’re discussing a made up thread here, ha