Westminster Politics

Pexbo

Winner of the 'I'm not reading that' medal.
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
68,716
Location
Brizzle
Supports
Big Days

They're trying to chin him out of there
He won’t be leading them into an election, that much has been clear for ages. He’s devoid of charm, charisma and gravitas and on the contrary he’s actually a whiney little bitch that gets incredibly petulant under even the most minor questioning. He’s got virtually zero political capital left with any faction.

They will do the only thing they have left - elect an empty vessel of a populist charlatan. Honestly would not rule out a return for Johnson, Farage taking the mantle or someone as daft as Rees Mogg.
 

maximus419

Full Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2014
Messages
333
Location
UK
He won’t be leading them into an election, that much has been clear for ages. He’s devoid of charm, charisma and gravitas and on the contrary he’s actually a whiney little bitch that gets incredibly petulant under even the most minor questioning. He’s got virtually zero political capital left with any faction.

They will do the only thing they have left - elect an empty vessel of a populist charlatan. Honestly would not rule out a return for Johnson, Farage taking the mantle or someone as daft as Rees Mogg.
Well it's not possible for them to elect Johnson or Farage as neither are current MPs. Rees Mogg would be even worse than. Sunak as he has nothing but contempt for anyone other than extreme right wing people and his reputation is as bad as anyone in the Tory party.

The only person who could realistically lead the party into a GE campaign and get any kind of boost would be Maudant, but honestly, changing leader now would be political suicide. Everyone can see that it's just desperate to change leader a few months before an election and will be used as a stick to beat them with in the campaign. They may as well simply accept their fate now and get it over with. Prolonging this and talking of changing leader again could finish their chances of being the main opposition party, which may not be a bad thing!
 

TwoSheds

More sheds (and tiles) than you, probably
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
12,978
"For the first time, global warming has exceeded 1.5C across an entire year, according to the EU's climate service."

Only 1 day after "Labour ditches environmental policy". Coincidentally also pretty much the only Labour policy anyone outside the Labour party could name. You couldn't make it up, and yet...compared to the government this party looks like geniuses!
 

Buster15

Go on Didier
Joined
Aug 28, 2018
Messages
13,486
Location
Bristol
Supports
Bristol Rovers
"For the first time, global warming has exceeded 1.5C across an entire year, according to the EU's climate service."

Only 1 day after "Labour ditches environmental policy". Coincidentally also pretty much the only Labour policy anyone outside the Labour party could name. You couldn't make it up, and yet...compared to the government this party looks like geniuses!
Quite agree with you. I am very disappointed in Starmer U turn and it shows how weak he.
 

Superden

Full Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2013
Messages
2,108
There's a chance that wellingborough won't be won by Labour - Even though the bookies have them as 7 to1 on to win, a lot of their core vote is upset with starmers pivot away from the left. . So any votes the tories lose to Reform (that ghoul Ben habib) will be cancelled out. Wonder if that will finally raise alarms with starmers people. The muslim vote is also finally starting to organise, with independent candidates starting campaigns in many so called Labour heartlands...
 

pacifictheme

Full Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2013
Messages
7,739
Good. Teaching labour a lesson will warm my heart whilst every national institution and freedom is further ground down under five more years of Tory government.
 

Pexbo

Winner of the 'I'm not reading that' medal.
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
68,716
Location
Brizzle
Supports
Big Days
There's a chance that wellingborough won't be won by Labour - Even though the bookies have them as 7 to1 on to win, a lot of their core vote is upset with starmers pivot away from the left. . So any votes the tories lose to Reform (that ghoul Ben habib) will be cancelled out. Wonder if that will finally raise alarms with starmers people. The muslim vote is also finally starting to organise, with independent candidates starting campaigns in many so called Labour heartlands...
He will see the Reform vote and think “oh it appears I am in fact not far enough to the right”
 

FireballXL5

Full Member
Joined
May 9, 2015
Messages
10,090
Good. Teaching labour a lesson will warm my heart whilst every national institution and freedom is further ground down under five more years of Tory government.
Well, under Starmer's leadership you're effectively going to get another five years of it anyway.
 

Adisa

likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt
Joined
Nov 28, 2014
Messages
50,385
Location
Birmingham
He won’t be leading them into an election, that much has been clear for ages. He’s devoid of charm, charisma and gravitas and on the contrary he’s actually a whiney little bitch that gets incredibly petulant under even the most minor questioning. He’s got virtually zero political capital left with any faction.

They will do the only thing they have left - elect an empty vessel of a populist charlatan. Honestly would not rule out a return for Johnson, Farage taking the mantle or someone as daft as Rees Mogg.
Well it's not possible for them to elect Johnson or Farage as neither are current MPs. Rees Mogg would be even worse than. Sunak as he has nothing but contempt for anyone other than extreme right wing people and his reputation is as bad as anyone in the Tory party.

The only person who could realistically lead the party into a GE campaign and get any kind of boost would be Maudant, but honestly, changing leader now would be political suicide. Everyone can see that it's just desperate to change leader a few months before an election and will be used as a stick to beat them with in the campaign. They may as well simply accept their fate now and get it over with. Prolonging this and talking of changing leader again could finish their chances of being the main opposition party, which may not be a bad thing!
It will be Penny Maudant or whatever her name is.
I honestly don’t understand why Sunak doesn’t just say feck it and call one now.
 

Mogget

Full Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2013
Messages
6,537
Supports
Arsenal
You're right. Might as well vote Tory while we're at it.
You are. This version of Labour is basically the 2010-2015 Tory party.

It's just that the political landscape has shifted so far right that the current Tories are even worse.
 

Buster15

Go on Didier
Joined
Aug 28, 2018
Messages
13,486
Location
Bristol
Supports
Bristol Rovers
On a day when the news ought to be focusing on Labour Green Agenda U turn, it seems that the narrative is more about Sunak stupid comment yesterday about what a woman is.
Has Starmer got away with it. Hope not because while I support Labour, I am annoyed at the watering down of a clear election pledge.
Especially on the day that we all learnt that our planet has warmed +1.5C.
 

Berbasbullet

Too Boring For A Funny Tagline
Joined
Nov 3, 2011
Messages
20,260
You are. This version of Labour is basically the 2010-2015 Tory party.

It's just that the political landscape has shifted so far right that the current Tories are even worse.
What do we do though?
 

Mr Pigeon

Illiterate Flying Rat
Scout
Joined
Mar 27, 2014
Messages
26,326
Location
bin
You are. This version of Labour is basically the 2010-2015 Tory party.

It's just that the political landscape has shifted so far right that the current Tories are even worse.
Yeah, and I absolutely hate how far we've shifted. I'm just detecting hints, yet again, of "don't vote Labour because they're just as bad" from some folk when we saw how that turned out last time. South Park's douche and turd episode springs to my mind.
 

The Corinthian

I will not take Mad Winger's name in vain
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
11,841
I don't think either come off well here - to politicise and point score over the tragic death of Brianna Ghey just shows how far our politicians and parties have fallen. We're living in truly desperate and pathetic times when we have idiots like Sunak and Starmer as the best representatives of the two biggest political parties. England is finished, man.

Also, what was the jibe (re the 99% bit)? That totally went over my head.
 

Herman Toothrot

Full Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2021
Messages
1,756
Yeah, and I absolutely hate how far we've shifted. I'm just detecting hints, yet again, of "don't vote Labour because they're just as bad" from some folk when we saw how that turned out last time. South Park's douche and turd episode springs to my mind.
Don't worry, they'll be fine this time. They're appealing to the hateful majority of Britons. You can safely vote Green and The Tories won't get it. If enough of us do it, they might even start thinking there's some voter capital in not totally fecking up the world.
 

Herman Toothrot

Full Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2021
Messages
1,756
I don't think either come off well here - to politicise and point score over the tragic death of Brianna Ghey just shows how far our politicians and parties have fallen. We're living in truly desperate and pathetic times when we have idiots like Sunak and Starmer as the best representatives of the two biggest political parties. England is finished, man.

Also, what was the jibe (re the 99% bit)? That totally went over my head.
Is it that trans people are 0.1% of the population?

Does make you wonder. Is it not a strange fate that we should suffer so much fear and doubt for so small a thing?
 

Pexbo

Winner of the 'I'm not reading that' medal.
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
68,716
Location
Brizzle
Supports
Big Days
I don't think either come off well here - to politicise and point score over the tragic death of Brianna Ghey just shows how far our politicians and parties have fallen. We're living in truly desperate and pathetic times when we have idiots like Sunak and Starmer as the best representatives of the two biggest political parties. England is finished, man.

Also, what was the jibe (re the 99% bit)? That totally went over my head.
I heard this argument on the radio earlier. That it was actually Starmer who conflated Sunak’s comments with Brianna Ghey’s mother being in the house and therefore it is Starmer that is political point scoring. I’m no fan of Starmer but honestly that is such a tenuous argument. Flip it on its head and Starmer says nothing and it’s Starmer that is taking all the flack because he let the comment go without highlighting how inappropriate it was. He was right to highlight it and to suggest otherwise it’s both sides bollocks.
 

Maticmaker

Full Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
Messages
4,691
If it's not a priority why does the British media and politicians mention it every single day. You, yourself said the boat people needed to be solved first. They do not want it solved. Distractions everywhere.
It is a priority for the media and politicians, who both crave the spotlight, they raise the issue in ways that attract attention. Yes, they know it cannot be solved quickly, without proper due diligence and a comprehensive migrant policy to back it up and that takes time, so they 'suck it up' with the public, takes peoples minds of energy bills, etc.

Where do you get the impression that wages in the EU are lower than the UK. The Uk were before the referendum( and still are) in the bottom half. Yes some Eastern European countries were below but they're catching up fast and will soon overtake the UK
Of course, remember Farage and his warning of millions of Romanians (under freedom of movement) turning up in the UK, its was this fear that the eastern EU countries will seek higher wages in the UK than they could get in their own country and in so doing affect wage rates in the UK. It was true in some cases but much over blown by Farage and his ilk! This kind of media coverage was the sort that remainers (in government) failed to address properly and it fueled some support for Brexit, especially with those living outside the main UK conurbations.
Paul you make regular comments here and elsewhere about how stupid its was to vote for Brexit, but you fail to also shed light on how weak and ineffective the Remainers were in countering such arguments... and the reason is because at the time, they couldn't. Like all successful lies, somewhere inside is elements of truth, Farage and co. were very successful in ensuring this essential ingredient in the issue of immigration.

How does replacing European workers with agency workers from third world countries increase UK salaries? Those lower waged people did the jobs the British workers refused to do and still refuse to do. So what are the British being trained to do if their better paid jobs will be taken by the newly favoured better trained immigrants.
It doesn't directly, companies in many parts of the UK economy have had to raise salaries in the traditional low paid jobs, especially after Covid and as you say after many people in the UK have been declaring themselves inactive in the labour market. Because of the low numbers available it became a 'rob Peter to pay Paul] (not you of course). EU workers as you rightly say are being paid better in their home countries and wont travel to the UK for work, so workers from the third world are sought. Trades Unions in the UK are at an all time low in their effectiveness, because when they get 'sandbagged' by employers they still tend reach for the 'strike' weapon, to solve all problems, not just pay rates. Consequently it will be up to Starmer to change this mentality, one way he might do it is to get something like the ITB's up and running again... but don't hold your breath!

Strange that the health service, education service , training services , infrastructure, transport etc etc etc are far superior in France than the UK , from personal experience , and yet they're in the EU. And French people moan about it. They really don't realise how lucky they are.
Not at all, as I've said in other posts, it was my experience in the UK that the companies I met who spent more time, trouble and expense getting their recruitment, training and management development right, were inevitably foreign owned. This issue in the UK pre-dates the EEC, let alone the EU, joining the EEC in the 70's did nudge UK employers to up their game, but not as much as it was required. This is an urgent problem for Starmer when he takes power, but I have to admit I doubt if it will get the attention it needs, not in a first term anyway... but we live in hope.
 

NotThatSoph

Full Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2019
Messages
3,784
Your original post was a very Sweet Square take. You don't agree with me, therefore you are bad and I question if you are actually offended. Wtf
...

Welcome to politics. Power, public perception and timing are key.

A comment that is made one day is terrible but not politically damaging but another day it is.. a sincerely held position may be what you want but if the public doesn't accept it you have to time when to push to change the narrative right and get the changes you want etc.

Most people are boomers that don't get trans issues, but most people understand a mother's love, how painful it must be to lose a child, and how objectionable it is to be rude to guests.. but no instead of using the opportunity to push for acceptance and move the needle, let's just be snarky shits, eh
Huh.
 

DavelinaJolie

Full Member
Joined
May 8, 2013
Messages
3,490
Good. Teaching labour a lesson will warm my heart whilst every national institution and freedom is further ground down under five more years of Tory government.
As opposed to voting for them and teaching them they can make promises then change their mind when they feel like grabbing someone else's vote or courting some other lobby.

This should be a moment for self-reflection on their part, not recriminations for people who feel alienated by their politics and bait and switches.
 

The Corinthian

I will not take Mad Winger's name in vain
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
11,841
Is it that trans people are 0.1% of the population?

Does make you wonder. Is it not a strange fate that we should suffer so much fear and doubt for so small a thing?
Is that the joke? What's the punchline - that trans folks make up a small percentage of the UK population? And agree - it's given disproportionate coverage but it's part of the overall culture war taking place. Sunak (and Starmer) know this.
I heard this argument on the radio earlier. That it was actually Starmer who conflated Sunak’s comments with Brianna Ghey’s mother being in the house and therefore it is Starmer that is political point scoring. I’m no fan of Starmer but honestly that is such a tenuous argument. Flip it on its head and Starmer says nothing and it’s Starmer that is taking all the flack because he let the comment go without highlighting how inappropriate it was. He was right to highlight it and to suggest otherwise it’s both sides bollocks.
I think both are cnuts for politicising it.

(Did Sunak know her mother was in the chamber?) If he did - he should have avoided mentioning anything at all about it - there's a litany of U-turns that Starmer's made without even having to use the trans stuff. So that's why he's a cnut (if he knew she was there). If he didn't know she was there, he's still a cnut.

Starmer is obviously going to weaponise that in this charade anyway, despite Labour U-turning on their trans pledges. So that's why he's a cnut.

I just feel bad for the mum - having to sit through this bollocks while these two cnuts, who really don't give a shit about her dead daughter, are going back and forth with barbs and insults. The state of this country is in the gutter.
 

Jericholyte2

Full Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
3,578
As opposed to voting for them and teaching them they can make promises then change their mind when they feel like grabbing someone else's vote or courting some other lobby.

This should be a moment for self-reflection on their part, not recriminations for people who feel alienated by their politics and bait and switches.
So you don't think the economic health of the country has changed at all in this last few years?
 

Pexbo

Winner of the 'I'm not reading that' medal.
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
68,716
Location
Brizzle
Supports
Big Days
Is that the joke? What's the punchline - that trans folks make up a small percentage of the UK population? And agree - it's given disproportionate coverage but it's part of the overall culture war taking place. Sunak (and Starmer) know this.

I think both are cnuts for politicising it.

(Did Sunak know her mother was in the chamber?) If he did - he should have avoided mentioning anything at all about it - there's a litany of U-turns that Starmer's made without even having to use the trans stuff. So that's why he's a cnut (if he knew she was there). If he didn't know she was there, he's still a cnut.

Starmer is obviously going to weaponise that in this charade anyway, despite Labour U-turning on their trans pledges. So that's why he's a cnut.

I just feel bad for the mum - having to sit through this bollocks while these two cnuts, who really don't give a shit about her dead daughter, are going back and forth with barbs and insults. The state of this country is in the gutter.
But you’re ignoring my point. What do you think would have filled the media headlines if Starmer decided not to hold Sunak to account for his comments?
 

DavelinaJolie

Full Member
Joined
May 8, 2013
Messages
3,490
So you don't think the economic health of the country has changed at all in this last few years?
Oh I absolutely do, but I happen to think the climate is a priority issue that can't be put off, I don't want to see my daughter's generation let down, and it will also feed into energy, immigration* and employment. I also feel strongly about Trans rights and they've let me down there.

*Everyone wants to pretend they'll deal with immigration but always on a superficial level, rather than attacking the causes, of which climate change will be a huge driver in the coming decades. I'm less concerned about immigration to be honest, but I'd like to see these point scorers actually admit we have a role to play on a wider scale and contributed to crises that are already occurring.
 
Last edited:

Superden

Full Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2013
Messages
2,108
this argument used by the tories of their opponents 'politicising' things / playing politics, when they criticise tory behaviour is so pathetic, and yet it clearly does resonate with some of the population, as they use it again and again. at the next election, it should a question (after youve shown your ID), do you think the opposition are politicising issues, which is abhorrent and so unfair?, if the person answers yes, then they should be taken out the back and shot.
 

The Corinthian

I will not take Mad Winger's name in vain
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
11,841
But you’re ignoring my point. What do you think would have filled the media headlines if Starmer decided not to hold Sunak to account for his comments?
Sunak would come off looking worse if Starmer hadn’t said anything. The dad has called on Sunak to apologise which I’d assume he would have done anyway, and other political commentators would have picked up on it. (Big if).

You may be right of course and Starmer would have got more flack for not saying anything at all.

I find this whole situation just so callous being done in front of a mum who’s lost their daughter.
 

Pexbo

Winner of the 'I'm not reading that' medal.
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
68,716
Location
Brizzle
Supports
Big Days
How can it not be linked? One of the murderers holds transphobic beliefs.

Rishi Sunak attacks Keir Starmer for linking trans jibe with Brianna Ghey case

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68237826

Why can't we feck Sunak off to Rwanda and Piers can win his bet?
I thought that article read like it had been written by the Tory campaign team so looked up the author Kate Whannel and the first article I found was this wonderful 50p Lee puff piece.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-66998184
 

Drainy

Full Member
Joined
May 5, 2009
Messages
14,825
Location
Dissin' Your Flygirl
I think this Labour party leadership are hyper focused on polling, public perception and winning the next election at all costs, and are running more to the centre than they would naturally be because of public sentiment and the right wing media due to political pragmatism.

I may be delusional though since it's a hope.
 

Paul the Wolf

Full Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
17,818
Location
France - can't win anything with Swedish turnips
It is a priority for the media and politicians, who both crave the spotlight, they raise the issue in ways that attract attention. Yes, they know it cannot be solved quickly, without proper due diligence and a comprehensive migrant policy to back it up and that takes time, so they 'suck it up' with the public, takes peoples minds of energy bills, etc.



Of course, remember Farage and his warning of millions of Romanians (under freedom of movement) turning up in the UK, its was this fear that the eastern EU countries will seek higher wages in the UK than they could get in their own country and in so doing affect wage rates in the UK. It was true in some cases but much over blown by Farage and his ilk! This kind of media coverage was the sort that remainers (in government) failed to address properly and it fueled some support for Brexit, especially with those living outside the main UK conurbations.
Paul you make regular comments here and elsewhere about how stupid its was to vote for Brexit, but you fail to also shed light on how weak and ineffective the Remainers were in countering such arguments... and the reason is because at the time, they couldn't. Like all successful lies, somewhere inside is elements of truth, Farage and co. were very successful in ensuring this essential ingredient in the issue of immigration.



It doesn't directly, companies in many parts of the UK economy have had to raise salaries in the traditional low paid jobs, especially after Covid and as you say after many people in the UK have been declaring themselves inactive in the labour market. Because of the low numbers available it became a 'rob Peter to pay Paul] (not you of course). EU workers as you rightly say are being paid better in their home countries and wont travel to the UK for work, so workers from the third world are sought. Trades Unions in the UK are at an all time low in their effectiveness, because when they get 'sandbagged' by employers they still tend reach for the 'strike' weapon, to solve all problems, not just pay rates. Consequently it will be up to Starmer to change this mentality, one way he might do it is to get something like the ITB's up and running again... but don't hold your breath!



Not at all, as I've said in other posts, it was my experience in the UK that the companies I met who spent more time, trouble and expense getting their recruitment, training and management development right, were inevitably foreign owned. This issue in the UK pre-dates the EEC, let alone the EU, joining the EEC in the 70's did nudge UK employers to up their game, but not as much as it was required. This is an urgent problem for Starmer when he takes power, but I have to admit I doubt if it will get the attention it needs, not in a first term anyway... but we live in hope.
The Remain lobby in the UK was pathetic and still is. Labour were absolutely hopeless. Trying to pretend Corbyn was pro remain was ridiculous and the Tories who supported remain were too. There were just too many lies. Remember when 80 million Turks were going to come.

Meanwhile the UK had all the power to put the minimum wage at whatever level they liked. The levels set by the EU were the absolute minimums.

The biggest problem was that people didn't really understand what they were voting for, only what they were told they were voting for.

Nothing much has changed in that respect and remainers wanting to join the single market and/or the CU without joining the EU obviously still don't fully understand either.

The bottom line is that governments and parties use the flag waving and xenophobia to distract the electorate away from their own incompetence. It works.