He doesn't really look a top talent even in the U21s, and I'm sure Ten Hag and all our coaches are well aware of that. It is without question that Antony is the better player right now, and that is without factoring in the nerves etc of a younger player coming into the team. But like I said, if ETH thinks Antony is unstoppable when in form, then starting Forson is an even crazier decision.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
15 losses to teams like Fulham, Forest and Bournemouth is pretty humuliating. Though it sounds like you are already getting used to it, and only get affected by the big hammerings nowadays.
I'm hoping he gets the support and structure needed for any manager to succeed in this day and age. That goes for the next guy too if ETH gets let go, but i personally hope he stays.
I am not getting used to anything, I just don't like extremist clownish behavior.
My thoughts exactly
You can't criticise our recruitment team for identifying good players, who may have been attainable if the finances were right. We spent heavily on other players this summer, the money has been there but we have just used it terribly.
I'm sold, it's dodgy.
I really hate the expected goals stats some of the most overquoted and least useful stats there are, seems like pundits have fallen in love with it and so everyone follows like sheep. A prediction worked out after the fact that either proves itself correct or proves itself wrong, what's not to love
They only got involved this summer and were involved in 3 deals that I can remember - the third you are probably forgetting is the Iqbal move.
I agree with him as well, to be honest. Worth checking out.
Hopefully you are right on that
I'm not forgetting I was just talking about incoming transfers only.
About Iqbal, again they are a really big agency in the Netherlands and we probably just used them due to their ties there to help get us a favorable deal.
Highly doubt there is absolutely anything underhand going. on.
Many agents/agencies has certain influence at clubs, so players most likely are influenced by that. And clubs probably find it easier to work with agencies they know beforehand. In the world of shady business, this is not very shady at all. Unlike with Ole and his best buddy and agent.
Just because new people are in post does not mean that the new systems and structures that they want in place will arrive with them overnight. It will all be a process that will likely take years.
The "best man" is very vague as well. The best man for one set of goals will be very different to the best man for another set. Whether the new manager is going to be hired to win the league as quickly as possible, or to start implementing a style of play that the club want to move forward with will lead to a very different pool of potential coaches.
I was going to make a post on this same thing. If you watch the 2019 Ajax side that lost to Tottenham (there are a bunch of full match videos on youtube) you will see the exact same tactics. Which surprised me a little but effectively our defense and midfield this season build up like the Ajax 2019 team and attack a bit more like his later Ajax teams (e.g. Antony staying out wide rather than the front 3 being narrow and swapping positions like the 2019 team). You'll see the exact same gaps in the midfield and similar patterns.
The difference is in the players. The quartet of Onana, Blind, De Ligt and De Jong are so comfortable with the ball that they are able to hold of presses and just play the ball between themselves. De Jong in particular thrives with that space in the midfield, very often being pressed by 2 attackers and beating the press to surge upfield or playing 1-2s with the CBs. In some of the videos you see VdB and Schone pushed high up but at the right moment Schone drops into the gap in midfield to give De Jong an option. however all across their team every player is comfortable being pressed and interlinking. Neres who I think played left wing for them is not as good as Rashford but my god the way he pressed and interlinks with others is great, the whole front three of that 2019 team switch positions and have great interplay.
At United you've only really got Martinez who can play the ball the way Ten Hag wants from the back (if you watch the 2019 team you'd be forgiven for thinking it was Martinez playing as they play very similarly), add in Casemiro as the CDM and you've got a quartet that is just so far below the level needed to play this way. Add in the ineffective press when Rashford is playing and this team as it is is just not capable of playing the style Ten Hag wants. The question is whether the owners believe in the vision and believe they can get the right players in to fulfill it or whether they lose faith in the tactics.One thing is for certain, the style of play cannot carry players, it cannot carry a Rashford that doesnt press, a Varane who cannot pass between lines or a Casemiro who cannot work in tight spaces.
Of course I can. You didn't need to be a professional scout to work out that Harry Kane would probably improve your team if you have a hundred or so million to hand.
It's one thing recommending Kane as the best option, and another to recommend only Kane, which it seems was the case here.
But surely then the issue is that ETH has no capacity to adapt his tactics to get the best out of the players he actually has, either they fit his system and all is great or they don't and he will set the team up in that way anyway and disaster ensues.
One of the most important qualities of a Manager is being able to judge a player's attributes, either ETH is incapable of doing this or he only has one system and lacks the capacity to recognise when this is failing and change things around.
ETH in or out. I am not sure anymore what is best.
But before we get a new manager we need to fix everything around the manager. And so far I dont see the team will change much.
We might bring in 2-3 players in the summer out of which one will have to be a striker that will not start or will push out Rasmus. That means the we will most likely only bring in one starting CB + maybe a midfielder to the starting 11.
That also means we will still have Rashford and Bruno who cannot do the short passing game.
We have now had 6 managers after Fergie and all have failed to get anything consistently out of these players.
Most of the players have shown their top level at some point but now seems more interested in them selves than in the team.
This season I have seen Mainoo, Ganacho and Rasmus improve over time. Meaning the young players that do not yet have big ego's and most like the ones that still listen to the coach.
Therefore don't change the coach until we have scrapped the players not willing to put the team first.
But before we get a new manager we need to fix everything around the manager. And so far I dont see the team will change much.
We might bring in 2-3 players in the summer out of which one will have to be a striker that will not start or will push out Rasmus. That means the we will most likely only bring in one starting CB + maybe a midfielder to the starting 11.
That also means we will still have Rashford and Bruno who cannot do the short passing game.
We have now had 6 managers after Fergie and all have failed to get anything consistently out of these players.
Most of the players have shown their top level at some point but now seems more interested in them selves than in the team.
This season I have seen Mainoo, Ganacho and Rasmus improve over time. Meaning the young players that do not yet have big ego's and most like the ones that still listen to the coach.
Therefore don't change the coach until we have scrapped the players not willing to put the team first.
We should rename this thread to 'The Hokey-Cokey'
As high as casemiro does not imply as high as Bruno
No I agree, but it was a good punishment to give them at the time as there should be no excuse what so ever to be out run by Brentford and getting battered 4-0 is inexcusable. For one of the biggest clubs in the world, the standards needs to be high and the manager needs to let them know who’s boss.
Ye I agree with that but if you’re going to punish half the team and not the other half then what kind of message does that send? Like ETH has said plenty of times, we win together and lose together… so the team that loses deserves the consequences.
Surely the most important aspect of picking a direction in style of play is to stick to it, let the process weed out those players who aren't capable of doing it and bring in players who are.
Not saying the ETH way is the right way or the wrong way, but at some point you have to make a decision regards where you want to be as a football club, the type of players you want, mentality, style of play etc etc. Within that process tough decisions have to be made and jettisoning players who aren't suitable to where you want to go is all part of sticking to the process.
If you're constantly chopping and changing tactics to suit this group of players you're going to end up going round in circles. This squad of players just isn't good enough to make a serious challenge for any major trophy under any manager and no amount of adapting to their strengths will change that.
It was a good move at the time and it worked. However I dont think they got outworked by Fulham, the tactics were wrong and if there were to be any punishment it would be Erik himself running alone in the rain.
Probably I just don't think that "punishing" anyone is the right move anyway. Give everybody the platform to improve his performance that he needs. If someone needs to be punished to do this, he shouldn't be a professional player anyway (but I guess when I make this statement this opens up a far bigger discussion about the squad
)So I think we should just say, we generally agree and are just not sure about what applies to (which) player at the moment?
They probably do. At this point it's obvious the right to down tools must be written into their contracts.
Bet you anything EtH will leave, join another club, get them playing football similar to his Ajax team and then within a year or two be in demand again.
We've got that kind of luck.
We've got that kind of luck.
I wouldnt worry. True for managers and for players, pretty much all who failed at United have gone on to be colossal failures elsewhere.
Most annoying stat in football.
Why would he reference he knows what's going to happen and then condition it with a but?Are you a body language/speech expert now?
It may or may not be true but thats utter garbage mate.
"Yeah I'm staying on, but we have to work everyday to make sure we win every game."
See how strange that sentence sounds?
I mean, this guy presided over these results:
0-3 Bournemouth
0-3 Newcastle
0-3 Manchester City
3-0 Sevilla
7-0 Liverpool
6-3 Manchester City
4-0 Brentford
I find it tough to be too hard on people for predicting/expecting calamitous results against good opposition.
Well......you say that but he works for a company which pays him, said company doing well, I'm sure will be good for him and increase his standing at the firm.
Secondly, looking at this, we wanted Gakpo and he's a SEG client, Hojlund is an SEG client which probably included a large fee.
I remember the rumours for Malen, he's an SEG client. Kees Vos was also involved in the Amrabat loan deal too.
I mean, I get it, it's not a conspiracy but there's no smoke etc.
Ye I suppose that’s fair enough. He’s mostly to blame but could there be a case of the players not following instructions?
Sounds fairProbably I just don't think that "punishing" anyone is the right move anyway. Give everybody the platform to improve his performance that he needs. If someone needs to be punished to do this, he shouldn't be a professional player anyway (but I guess when I make this statement this opens up a far bigger discussion about the squad
So I think we should just say, we generally agree and are just not sure about what applies to (which) player at the moment?
As good as they were on the ball, let's not forget they threw away a 3-1 lead in 45 minutes.
His son works for SEG also.
Who was playing on the left side against Fulham- Lindelof and ? He seemed very critical in his presser. To be fair Lindelof isn't a left back but he could have switched Dalot to that side.
I doubt it, but even if it happens, good for him. As with any other job, a manager can do well somewhere and not be a good fit somewhere else. Not something I'll ever lose any sleep over.
Yeah his teams were also pretty terrible defending transitions throughout his time there (same theme here as well). No doubt they were more technical and better going forward, although I think that also has to do with the natural tendencies of many of those players. Watch how much they want to link up and pass/move with each other, it's vertical football but the spaces are tighter instead of seeing De Jong slamming 50 yard passes to a hopeful Neres making a run in behind. At our club we have maybe 4 players total that want to play quick/linkup football like that and 3 of them don't even play (DvB, Martial, Amad). It makes a big difference because even if the technical level of some of our starters was higher, the natural tendencies still wouldn't be there for them to play similar to that Ajax team.