He's an arrogant tosser, comes across it on the pitch and in that interview. I'd be happy to see an offer come in for him in the summer and part ways.
10
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 40
- Goals
- 8
- Assists
- 5
- Yellow cards
- 2
- Red cards
- 1
Again, I don't know what you're talking about. This is a direct quote from you:
read that paragraph again and count the leaps of logic you've made. I don't know what's not registering to you - what I'm saying is fairly simple. You're grouping Rashford and Berba together - when my statement is that players are not all the same, have the same instructions, nor play with the same perceived level of intensity. My mention of Berbatov was to emphasize that, in fact. Direct quote "players have different styles and instructions. Similar stuff about running and effort used to be said about Berbatov."
Somehow you entrenched yourself in a discussion of suggestion of similar styles and that the same people doing criticizing ABC were doing XYZ. Positions never taken. Rest
Brother, the sentence you quoted explicitly states this "if Bruno becomes lazy, I'll be in his thread calling personal attacks thrown at him unhinged, whilst saying he should be dropped or sold for not doing enough. That is the polar opposite of believing effort is not worth criticizing. Your reading comprehension failed you, and your disposition to assume positions that were never taken exacerbated that, unfortunately, that's not my damage, it is yours.
I would've honestly sat him down to the many clips where he is not going to challenge for the ball, does not track back, pulls out of 50/50's, does not run after his man after he gives the ball away, and I would honestly ask him to explain his thought process, why is he deciding not to fight for his hometown team?
I don't despise that sort of player. I'm a United fan - our fortunes have been pretty low recently, so I appreciated a badge thumping cardio specialist. I just know not all players play the game like that and it isn't/shouldn't necessarily turn into an indictment of their characters with personal attacks and some of the madness in this thread. I do think Rashford should be dropped or even sold.
There are multiple reports of Rashford playing through injury for Ole (some stating he did so for 11 months). Rashford is on record saying so. Ole is on record saying so.
They should do it to him mind experiment style. Forced to watch it all and then watch players in the same position who actually give a shit for the same length of time after. Argh! We are back to this emotional blackmail PR to make everyone feel kind of bad for calling it out. This has all happened before.
Yeah, I have a feeling that they are afraid to do it, as he wont react and see this as positive criticism. This is something that Van Gaal used to do with players.
Why the feck would they do this shite right before the Citeh match?
Everybody and their dog knows that the context that you brought up is that intensity isn't the same for all players. This is why you brought up Berba. Nobody misunderstands this. This is you relating Berba and Rashford by invoking Berba. It's not me. It's you bringing up the relation, even if they are not identical. But that's not the point of the discussion, nor is it my intention to show that the two players are exactly alike or that you somehow believe that, even if there is a relation, hence you bringing up Berba in the first place.
The two can be different, but your point was that perceived level of intensity by fans is an invalid way of judging the players because "players are not all the same, have the same instructions, nor play with the same perceived level of intensity." In this way, Rashford has his own instructions, plays with an intensity that fans perceive as lacking compared to others, and is not the same as others. This is what I meant by Rashford not being the same as Berba. It was not about as you said" Rashford is the same player now as he was then. In fact, one of my biggest criticisms of Rashford is that his game has not evolved from when he broke into the team, I'd even argue he has regressed in key aspects like dribbling, but stylistically he's the same player. " This is irrelevant to the context of you responding about intensity levels to another poster. Why would I be talking about how Rashford dribbled?
As for intensity, Rashford has history of putting way more effort off the ball. It's only recently (last 2.5-3 years) that he has changed his effort levels. It's not his style to play like that always. Berba was the same from the start. As was Martial. How can you use Rashford being different from others as an excuse for Rashford's effort levels? Martial I can understand. He's always played the way he has played, even when he first got here, and fans were criticizing him even over his celebrations.
Instructions? Hojlund puts in more effort in the press when up top. He fights for more balls. Garnacho plays with more intensity when played on the left. Any of our attackers plays with more intensity. Surely the instructions must be the same for his attackers that replace him or that he replaces? Surely the pressing works better with all players participating in more intense effort levels? He doesn't have to run as much as Bruno or Hannibal. We're asking for what the average player does. It's the bare minimum of what he used to do.
Playing through injuries for Ole, was something he did. The effort levels after that are what people are complaining about. That can no longer be used as evidence of today's Rashford's effort levels.
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Absolutely worth it as he loves Utd.
You’re writing a lot trying to tell me what my point is, when I’ve told you multiple times what my point is. Please rest or I'm just going to ignore you
Rashford is the same player now as he was then. In fact, one of my biggest criticisms of Rashford is that his game has not evolved from when he broke into the team, I'd even argue he has regressed in key aspects like dribbling, but stylistically he's the same player. [add comment about him not doing/being good enough and should be dropped or even sold here]
Clearly I’m not talking about intensity levels as I emphasised stylistically, and mentioned he regressed in key aspects, citing dribbling as an example, and clearly I’m not saying that “perceived level of intensity is an invalid way of judging players” seeing as the last sentence in that paragraph is [“add comment about him not doing enough here”], and the fact that I’ve criticised him throughout this thread
Myth. these are Rashford's defensive contributions in the league from 17/18 to now:
I don't know what Rashford's instructions are. I do know that sometimes managers will try to extract different things from different players, even for those that play in the same position. Fact of the matter is, the manager keeps playing Rashford despite whatever shortcomings he has, that suggests a few things to me. More importantly, I don't know why you keep trying to position this argument as me having an issue with people criticising Rashford's application and effort or lack thereof. I don't. In fact, I've criticised him for it throughout the thread, even suggesting he should be dropped or sold. You simply misunderstood what my issues with some of the replies and tone in this thread are, and went off arguing against positions I've never taken.
Mentioning him playing through injury for Ole was not an attempt to use it as evidence or corroboration of his effort levels currently - that doesn't even make sense, and wasn't said in response to you/our exchange. Someone called him a dickhead and said he's one of the worst we've ever had - and I can't fathom saying that about a player that played through pain for damn near a year [as well as contributed as much as he has up til now]
The majority of homegrown players would have come from families near, at or below the breadline. Football is a working class sport. It's arguably the most impressive element of his PR machine, the fact this has been spun as some kind of unique background that justifies cutting him more slack than anyone else. Most of his peers use their roots and their disadvantage to work harder, not as a constant shield to deflect criticism for their laziness.
He gets a lot of attention in the media of course (Maybe more than others), which is part of being the most paid United player, he's also the easier target compared to Case and Varane who are on the same wages, because those two have won everything there is (Although they too get their fair share of criticism) - I think most of our fans don't have a problem with the person he is, I personally couldn't be fussed if he went on a night out and got punished for it, but I'd want him to do his talking on the pitch and consistently put at least 8/10 performances in. He doesn't have to be an in-form world beater every game, just a player that plays for the team is more than enough, and this for me is what separates Rashford from the truly world class players - for example when you have a Ribery, or a Robben or a Vini Jr on your team, you know they're capable of magic, but you also know they will absolutely run their socks off and put a stint in for the team on their off days.
He's unfortunately not a team player when he plays out wide or through the middle, the way he wants to play just reminds me a lot of how Neymar or Mbappe played at PSG - it's fine if he wants to play that way, but United is just not the team for him to do that with (And I don't think the PL is a league where you can get away with that play style), which is where the criticism stems from. It might be best for him to find a team that suits him then, and for United to find a player that suits us more.
He's come out with this feature now and he's clearly annoyed at how the press are reacting to him - fine, now I'd very much like to see how he responds to it on the pitch, that's all I'm keen to see.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with being arrogant, some of you just like to get upset over nothing...
Let's come together as fans to help him get out of this rot by signing a new song to his name, reminding him how much we love to see him score goals, hopefully they might help him get better on the field.
We need his goals more than ever not all this moaning, blaming and finger pointing we come on here to read.
Nothing wrong with arrogance, but arrogance mixed with being crap is a deadly combination.
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If he wants to knuckle down, play for the team and stop throwing his hands in the air every time he loses the ball then I can see him being a squad player here. Not a regular starter though. He's not shown enough consistency in his career up until this point and it's not exactly going to suddenly start now.
Unfortunately I think he's too big a name to just be a bench option though. The press would make a huge thing of it every time, so I think we either have to start him regularly or sell. For me it's still sell.
It's a nice story and I've never really doubted his commitment to the club. He throws his hands up and doesn't track back out of frustration and stubbornness imo. He cares. He just channels it in completely the wrong way sometimes. But if we want to get where we want to be I don't believe we can have him as a main attacker. Just adoring the club and being here since you were a kid isn't enough if you aren't at the level required.
Unfortunately I think he's too big a name to just be a bench option though. The press would make a huge thing of it every time, so I think we either have to start him regularly or sell. For me it's still sell.
It's a nice story and I've never really doubted his commitment to the club. He throws his hands up and doesn't track back out of frustration and stubbornness imo. He cares. He just channels it in completely the wrong way sometimes. But if we want to get where we want to be I don't believe we can have him as a main attacker. Just adoring the club and being here since you were a kid isn't enough if you aren't at the level required.
His overall stats:
391 matches, 128 goals and 74 assists.
In the Premier League;
264 matches, 81 goals and 47 assists.
Past 3 seasons:
120 matches, 40 goals, 19 assists.
Past 3 seasons in the Premier League,
85 matches, 26 goals, 10 assists.
Now, the stats overall are surprisingly consistent, however....Last season he scored 30 goals for us, 11 assists. That's 75% of his total tally for the past 3 seasons, almost 60% of his total assist tally for the past 3 seasons.
So, last season he played a total of 35 matches for us, so 75% of his total goal tally within 29% his total number of played matches.
Last season he scored 10 league goals within a period of around 2 months). Almost 60% of his league goals that season. 17 goals in total during this period (21st dec-26st feb), essentially almost 60% of his total goal tally that season, within 2 months. 42,5% of his total goal tally for the past 3 seasons was scored in a 2 month period, 38% of his total league goals for the past 3 seasons during a 2 month period where he played 12 PL matches. Essentially, in 14% of the total amount of league matches he's played in the past season, he scored almost 40% of his goals.
19 matches was played in this 2 month period, so around 16% of his total matches in this 3 season period. 42,5% of his total goal tally for the past 3 seasons scored within 16% of his total matches. Almost 0,9 goals per match
Outside of this period, he played 37 matches. 0,35 goals per match
391 matches, 128 goals and 74 assists.
In the Premier League;
264 matches, 81 goals and 47 assists.
Past 3 seasons:
120 matches, 40 goals, 19 assists.
Past 3 seasons in the Premier League,
85 matches, 26 goals, 10 assists.
Now, the stats overall are surprisingly consistent, however....Last season he scored 30 goals for us, 11 assists. That's 75% of his total tally for the past 3 seasons, almost 60% of his total assist tally for the past 3 seasons.
So, last season he played a total of 35 matches for us, so 75% of his total goal tally within 29% his total number of played matches.
Last season he scored 10 league goals within a period of around 2 months). Almost 60% of his league goals that season. 17 goals in total during this period (21st dec-26st feb), essentially almost 60% of his total goal tally that season, within 2 months. 42,5% of his total goal tally for the past 3 seasons was scored in a 2 month period, 38% of his total league goals for the past 3 seasons during a 2 month period where he played 12 PL matches. Essentially, in 14% of the total amount of league matches he's played in the past season, he scored almost 40% of his goals.
19 matches was played in this 2 month period, so around 16% of his total matches in this 3 season period. 42,5% of his total goal tally for the past 3 seasons scored within 16% of his total matches. Almost 0,9 goals per match
Outside of this period, he played 37 matches. 0,35 goals per match
Empathy was yesterday Marcus. Today you're wasting our motherfecking time.
Seriously though, this kind of PR move would've worked a few years ago, but it seems people are fed up now. Performances on the pitch is all that matters.
Seriously though, this kind of PR move would've worked a few years ago, but it seems people are fed up now. Performances on the pitch is all that matters.
His little PR campaigns whenever he is showing nothing on the pitch have become tired and predictable.
I'm starting to think that nonsense like this isn't necessarily cynical brand-building PR, I think it comes from a place of insecurity and fear. He's struggling to prove himself with his actions on the pitch and therefore feels like he has to prove himself with his words.
If he had decent PR people around him they would have advised him away from doing shit like this, but instead his main advisor is his brother. Just another lad from Northern Moor who is learning on the job.
I actually believe him when he says he loves United, but he needs someone in his circle to say prove it and keep your mouth shut in the meantime.
If he had decent PR people around him they would have advised him away from doing shit like this, but instead his main advisor is his brother. Just another lad from Northern Moor who is learning on the job.
I actually believe him when he says he loves United, but he needs someone in his circle to say prove it and keep your mouth shut in the meantime.
At this moment and time, I really dont care if something is happening to him in his private life, so that he can use that as an excuse to not put the effort in.
I know depression and mental health are big nowadays and they have to be taken seriously, but this seems like the easy way out for many underperforming players, just say they are struggling mentally, and everything is forgotten. Take lazy Sancho as an example.
Rashford would've never lasted as long as he did in United, if he was at Bayern, Real Madrid or City. They dont allow this half-arsed playing.
His season under Ragnick was an orange flag. I dont care if you dont agree with the coach or not, what you dont do is stop putting in the effort. You dont play for Ragnick, you play for Manchester United. Same with his position. He has now done it under another manager. If I dont play a left winger, I will sulk throughout the complete game.
Nah, its too much drama, PR and no results on the field. He needs a change, and so do we.
I know depression and mental health are big nowadays and they have to be taken seriously, but this seems like the easy way out for many underperforming players, just say they are struggling mentally, and everything is forgotten. Take lazy Sancho as an example.
Rashford would've never lasted as long as he did in United, if he was at Bayern, Real Madrid or City. They dont allow this half-arsed playing.
His season under Ragnick was an orange flag. I dont care if you dont agree with the coach or not, what you dont do is stop putting in the effort. You dont play for Ragnick, you play for Manchester United. Same with his position. He has now done it under another manager. If I dont play a left winger, I will sulk throughout the complete game.
Nah, its too much drama, PR and no results on the field. He needs a change, and so do we.
I think the only time I've seen him smile this season was immediately after he got sent off vs Copenhagen.
Scott mentioned it in an interview that Erik was so demanding, and you get the feeling he is, if you are not putting in the proper effort or follow the rules, you are out. Like Sancho, a young talent on high wages, cost a fortune. Doesn`t matter, if you are not doing it right, you are out. The way it always should be in a teamsport.
But Marcus has been meh all sesson, putting in the bare minimum levels of effort and passion, at the best of times. He haven`t even managed to reach that level a few times this season. But still gets to start games week in week out. It is going to be really hard to change anything really when some players seem to get a very different treatment. And we`ve seen it before as well. Rooney was painful to watch towards the end with us but still started, regardless. Genuine 3/10 performance? No problem, you are still first name on the team sheet buddy. My captain always plays.
Like the board gives directions on what player is currently untouchable.
Just put him to the side until it feels like he is ready again.
But Marcus has been meh all sesson, putting in the bare minimum levels of effort and passion, at the best of times. He haven`t even managed to reach that level a few times this season. But still gets to start games week in week out. It is going to be really hard to change anything really when some players seem to get a very different treatment. And we`ve seen it before as well. Rooney was painful to watch towards the end with us but still started, regardless. Genuine 3/10 performance? No problem, you are still first name on the team sheet buddy. My captain always plays.
Like the board gives directions on what player is currently untouchable.
Just put him to the side until it feels like he is ready again.
Then again, what are/have been the other (fit) options? Antony on the right and Garna on the left? At the moment there are basically no alternatives for a striker.
Compared to Antony at least he contributes a bit in terms of goals and assists. His minutes per g/a is better than Garna’s too.
Not defending his performances, they’ve been poor and lacklustre at times. Just pointing out the lack of viable options.
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I truly wonder whether United provides any kind of counseling for our players. We all go through ups and downs in our lives — girlfriend dramas and so on — and these highly paid employees who are still young adults need help coping with an emotionally hard life. I don’t feel sorry for them, but they do face challenges like the rest of us and other challenges none of us ever face. That Marcus needs emotional support is evident to me. Maybe he’s getting it, but maybe not.
We struggle score goals and our star forward is only scoring 5 goals, but yes we have bigger issues. This place at times leaves me speechless.
Every time I hear Marcus complain or people say he is getting too much abuse I remind myself that Beckham was 23 in 98/99. Rashford might have done something crazy to himself if he faced the abuse Beckham faced then. And for all the glitz and glamour Beckham had in his life, not a single United fan can ever say he was lazy and questioned his attitude on the pitch.
I’m sure they do. Ten Hag appointed performance psychologist Rainier Koers to the team in 2022. Not sure if he still does some work for United but I’m pretty sure most top clubs at least hire some type of consultants to help with the mental side of the game. Some players even pay for psychologist services themselves.
Im sure they do provide support. But at the end of the day, if this is the case and you are not in the right frame of mind to play, you shouldnt be on the pitch. End of.
if you go out there with your head in the clouds, thinking about other things with a defeatist attitude, your a detriment to your team mates.
At times this is what i see with Rashford.. this season alot of the time he looks like a kid that doesn't even like football, but is being forced to play by his football loving parent,
We don`t have great options, but my personal view here is that it doesn`t really matter. If you want to reset culture and standards you need to put players that look half arsed on the pitch to the side. I think the message should be, fight if you wanna keep your spot in the team. The message it sends out when people see Rashford basically walking when the team needs proper pressing is not a good one.
If there is something eating him not sure if it benefits anyone to keep him as a starter regardless.
Antonys lack of end product is frustrating but he always fights at least.
Bruno can take a more attacking position. Amad hasn`t set the world a light in the few minutes he had but he is an exciting talent. Haven`t seen much of Forson but he must be doing something right to get a start. Could get more minutes.
The fundamental problem, aside from a perceived lack of workrate, is that you have a forward on mega money and superstar status that went from a terrible season under Ole/Ralf with just 5 goals, to a great season where he scored 30 goals and got us top 4 and now he's back to 5 goals again this season and will probably finish the season with around 10 if we're lucky. I'd love him to acknowledge this and say it hasn't been good enough but somehow I get the feeling he thinks it's other people's fault.
And it's not just Rashford either, we've had this problem with Shaw and Martial where you might get one really good season and then it just crashes the following year. How can you build a title challenging team around such inconsistency? As Keane said a few years ago there's been a culture of bluffers at the club for way too long and it really feels like some players just pass the buck and absolve themselves instead of getting on with it.
I mean, just as fans (nothing personal, no abuse, cruelty aimed at the player etc.) it's really hard to put your faith in players like this where you just know it's never going to be as good as it should be. I get the feeling if he stays at the club and we get yet another new manager we might find ourselves in the same situation again in a few years time which shouldn't surprise anyone.
And it's not just Rashford either, we've had this problem with Shaw and Martial where you might get one really good season and then it just crashes the following year. How can you build a title challenging team around such inconsistency? As Keane said a few years ago there's been a culture of bluffers at the club for way too long and it really feels like some players just pass the buck and absolve themselves instead of getting on with it.
I mean, just as fans (nothing personal, no abuse, cruelty aimed at the player etc.) it's really hard to put your faith in players like this where you just know it's never going to be as good as it should be. I get the feeling if he stays at the club and we get yet another new manager we might find ourselves in the same situation again in a few years time which shouldn't surprise anyone.
He does fight, that is true. The question is though whether the team would’ve done better with him in the side instead of Rashford. Not sure we would’ve. We haven’t had many fit midfielders either, so playing Bruno higher hasn’t really been an option in my opinion.
I do agree that Rashford should’ve been dropped more often and he needs to give more, just not sure we would’ve been able to this season, due to all the injuries. It would have resulted more minutes for youth players, but neither am I sure playing in this dysfunctional team would be healthy for their development.
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I think part of the dysfunctionality comes from us having stars on ridiculous wages that doesn`t shine like the stars they are, or at least we think they are. And some of them also seem to get the benefit of doubt far more than other players.
I think it creates groups within the team. Something that i think is absolutely necessary to solve and create a feeling that everyone is important and treated the same.
If you have players on ridiculous wages they absolutely need to back it up on the pitch.
Our constant injury problems doesn`t help of course. The younger players shouldn`t have to be thrown in the deep end like this either. A bit of catch 22 perhaps.
I can't find the stats for pressure but I was going to highlight the same thing. Rashford isn't great defensively and never has been as evidenced by the stats, the big difference is that he's not contributing effectively from an attacking point of view now.You’re writing a lot trying to tell me what my point is, when I’ve told you multiple times what my point is. Please rest or I'm just going to ignore you
Rashford is the same player now as he was then. In fact, one of my biggest criticisms of Rashford is that his game has not evolved from when he broke into the team, I'd even argue he has regressed in key aspects like dribbling, but stylistically he's the same player. [add comment about him not doing/being good enough and should be dropped or even sold here]
Clearly I’m not talking about intensity levels as I emphasised stylistically, and mentioned he regressed in key aspects, citing dribbling as an example, and clearly I’m not saying that “perceived level of intensity is an invalid way of judging players” seeing as the last sentence in that paragraph is [“add comment about him not doing enough here”], and the fact that I’ve criticised him throughout this thread
Myth. these are Rashford's defensive contributions in the league from 17/18 to now:
I think it's fair to criticise him generally for his work rate but as you've highlights it's also not true that he's gone from a relatively hard working winger to a lazy one.
I'm sure the club provides some kind of psychological counseling but I'm wondering whether it's effective. Playing for United puts one under a global microscope in a way that isn't even the case for Liverpool players, let alone everyone else. I live in the US and come across reporting on United all the time even on business channels. I can't even imagine what like in the UK itself. When I was last in Manchester in February a year ago no one talked about City...it was all United, all the time.
Phil Foden, the better footballer all the way around compared to Marcus Rashford, gets to live a relatively anonymous life. Yes, he's known around the world but because hardly anyone gives a shit about City he can live with his life with the ordinary costs of the kind of fame that most other top footballers live deal with fairly comfortably. But if you're Rashford, or Maguire or before them Rooney, Ronaldo, Rio, Beckham or whoever your every move in analyzed on every square inch on the planet.
Not everyone can cope with this and it seems to me, yes from my armchair, that Rashford is not coping well with the kind of fame and expectations that a top paid Manchester United footballer has to deal with.
Except Rashford was dropped when he was playing badly. He then returned to the team and has been consistently playing well at LW since around Xmas.
Even taking the whole season into account, he’s been consistently considerably better than Garnacho (our other option to play in that position), who has had a poor season when asked to play LW.
The disaster of this season has a lot of blame to pass around and Rashford shares some of it, as I don’t think he’s coped well with the team being a mess, but he’s pretty low on the issues as far as I’m concerned. If we started to look a coherent team, I’m confident he would start to show the world class level that he’s clearly capable of.
Interesting take. There's room for disagreement, but apart from injuries and poor signings by ETH (apart from Martinez) Rashford is at least to me clearly the top reason why our season has been in free fall. We all knew it would take time for Hojlund and Onana to adapt to the PL so fair play to them for finally hitting top gear in February. But Rashford has no excuses for being as poor as he's been this season and unlike Maguire and Wan-Bissaka we had every reason to have high expectations of Rashford this season. Antony has been a disastrous signing but we already knew that at the end of last season. Garnacho is still a teenager. We needed and expected Rashford to perform like a footballer in his prime and he's been anything but that. We can blame his performances on other, but at the end of the day footballers have to be held accountable for their performances and we can't start excusing players because of other players performing poorly.
When Rashford is 1v2 and tries to drive through them and fails instead of looking for the pass that failure is on him and not on Maguire or Bruno or Casemiro.
yeah id agree with you. Rashford is our supposed "world class player" (also bruno, but that is for the bruno thread). Clearly his expectations should be more than garnacho or hojund-which of the two, hojlund has accomplished more than rashford easily this season.
Ill be curious to see how new ownership deals with this, just dont see a way in which we take a step forward with both rashford and bruno here again next season.
Has he at any point been good this season? I only ask because I’m really having trouble thinking of any game where I’ve genuinely thought he was good. There have been games where I think he has improved, but yeah can’t think of any games where I’ve thought stand out performance there.
And had to take the bus as a kid, poor guy
[/QUOTE]
Rashford is one of the highest paid player in the Premier League at the age of 26, he's got 4 goals in open play and 6 assists, and we're grateful he's been better than Garnacho, a 19 year old.
Consistently well? Compared to what standards has he been playing consistently well since christmas?
Rashford is one of the highest paid player in the Premier League at the age of 26, he's got 4 goals in open play and 6 assists, and we're grateful he's been better than Garnacho, a 19 year old.
The first lad wasn't lying