Aside from throwing away yet another season?
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
That should be sufficient then. Promote a few of the young lads and be smart with our spending.
Same result only they were at home. We beat Brentford at home.
2 games in hand. Could be 6?
Jk we’re shit
Bad start to the season = another write off
I know, I answered a question about whether a new context would see you change your opinion.
Sell sell sell to make up the money
I refuse to believe that the wage bill and transfer kitty couldn't be significantly improved by shifting a few of these players, some of whom aren't even first choice when everyone is fit anyway. Martial and likely Varane are leaving anyway, Casemiro and Eriksen too. That's a big chunk of wages going right there. Whether or not you'd trust the club and EtH to use money wisely and find bargains is another matter that's probably quite doubtful but you never know.
I don’t understand this logic.
You’ll rather we stick with Ten Hag who we know has no future and is tactically not fit for the PL than gamble on some young manager to save cash?
Two seasons down the drain to save money is mad
Well what we could lose is another season wasted on mediocrity.
What do we gain by keeping him?
That pay off is nothing compared to the tens of millions it would cost the club in CL money, match day revenue and sponsorship deals from missing out on Champions League football again next year.
With the minimum perfromance clauses United put in managers contracts, it's likely United could probably sack him for £4-6m this summer. You don't risk wasting another season just to avoid paying that out, especially when in the process of keeping him the club will have to pay him another £9m next year in wages anyway if he stays.
Funny thing is ETH might be better dealing with players who have potential. In Netherlands they don't sign big money players it is players who could move onto bigger clubs. He might actually be happier doing that than us keep signing players who used to be good and still think they are. If we finish outside CL, which looks likely, it restricts who we may get. A lot want the CL to boost their profiles, so hopefully we will go for ambitious players who have sense to know they aren't quite CL level yet, but want to achieve that eventually. Don't want us paying ridiculous wages to compensate some has been.Sell sell sell to make up the money
Whether or not you'd trust the club and EtH to use money wisely and find bargains is another matter that's probably quite doubtful but you never know.
Mate, most people would say that City and Liverpool have a great footballing structure and have done exceedingly well in the transfer market. But they also have maybe the second best manager of all time (Pep) and an all time great (Klopp). To have a club that challenges year after year for the league and CL trophies, you need it all: money (we have), structure, manager and players. Pep only just won his first CL without Messi last season after 10 years of futility (Bayern and City). To win major trophies at this level and this league, you can’t really have a mediocre manager — like Ten Hag — and expect to win much because the squads at the top are pretty equal in talent.
I keep reading this but I am unaware of all the appointments they have made. Can you please update me? That Berrada is the only one I know.
They also haven't changed manager while their structure has been built.
Berrada as CEO, Dan Ashworth as DOF and Jason Wilcox as head of recruitment seems to be their plan.
Southgate would be an improvement on Ten Hag.
The football wouldn't be great but he'd most likely get better results. He wouldn't be filling the squad full of average players from the Dutch league either.
So did City only start building their current structure in the summer of 2016 and Liverpool theirs in late 2015?
It's literally the only thing i can think of that would possibly make me want him to stay next season: if he can keep the progress going of some of the players we've seen improving this season and if he can develop some more of the young players then that's something to work with.
People might argue that a new manager would still work to improve those players but as we saw with Jose it doesn't always work out; I got the feeling he didn't like Martial or Blind as a defender and wanted to get rid of them from the off, despite them being some of the few bright sparks the season before. A new manager might decide Martinez is not dominant enough or Onana is not what he wants in a goalkeeper etc.
They built it in anticipation of hiring Guardiola. Hence hiring guys like Txiki and Sorriano.
Liverpool built their model around Klopp and the demands he puts on the team.
Spending £9m to sack him (and it'll almost certainly be less than that as we normally put a clause into their contract if they miss out on CL qualification) but finishing in a CL spot next season will be a very significant net gain, compared to keeping him and missing out for a second year in a row. Especially as at least some of our sponsorship deals reduce dramatically if we miss out on CL qualification for two years in a row. Between the difference in prizemoney, television and sponsorship, not finishing in a CL qualifying spot next season will cost us a minimum of £40m (probably closer to £50m).
The only question is whether we think we've got a better chance of finishing in a top 4 or 5 spot next season with a different manager. If the answer to that is yes, it's utterly ridiculous to stick with ETH.
That's fine but it's just a projection. It's not based on anything at the moment whereas you can quantify the cost of sacking him.
My point is that you can't put a figure on keeping him, it would be arbitrary.
It's 100% cult of manager logic.
I dont know how long it'll take but you'd hope eventually United fans will wise up a bit and stop giving unearned loyalty to managers, like fans of every other club.
They're just another employee and when they fail, that's it. They get a huge payoff, the club moves on to the next one.
It's a bit more nuanced than that.
It's a momentum game and when a manager loses enough momentum at a club, they virtually never get it back. Definitely not at big clubs anyway.
The scary thing is, when you think about it, our standards are so low that had Jose/Ole/Ten Hag kept getting top four finishes, regardless of anything else, they would never get sacked.
Not based on anything? It's based on the last 12 months, and especially the tactical decisions that ETH has made this season, making it increasingly likely that this mess we're seeing on the field would continue next season and cost us CL qualification again.
Is it a guarantee? No, nobody knows the future. All you can do is go by probability, and I don't see any reason to think it's more likely under ETH next season than it would have been if we'd kept Rangnick for another season (in fact I would have had more confidence in him at least sorting out the squad).
That's true but this club is unusual in the fact that we had one manager for 26 years so to most of us I think the manager is more than 'just an employee'.
But he would be filling the squad with ‘Average’ players.
What about the 12 months prior to that? Does that not count for anything now?
He's had one good season and one bad season.
And it’s all based on because one guy did it, and that one guy was a really good manager before he even came to United and he ended up being arguably the greatest club manager ever. He was the exception to the rule.
Yeah I mean I understand the reasons fans over a certain age might still feel like that. But eventually if you spend enough time following football you have to realise that even the modern day Fergie equivalents are just employees, by far the most changeable part of any football club. Klopp's 9 years is unprecedented enough in modern times.
Yeah he's playing as though de Jong signed for us and Casemiro was 25. There's some logic to this. Play the way you want to play long term, as near as you can, and see which players can adapt. Then gradually get rid of the ones who cannot and replace with ones who can.
Yes it will hurt. Yes of course you can expect to lose quite a few games and players that way. But it has a Darwinian appeal. It really won't work if the fans or club don't accept the process though. If you want instant results you will never build anything that lasts.
Arteta was a nobody and he is fast becoming a WC manager as well. Everybody has to start somewhere. Took Liverpool 25 years to find Klopp.
I really think its just pride at this point, no one with a normal state of mind could possibly think he could become like that one guy.
So you’re saying that structure is the only factor in winning trophies?
Well, Brighton has a great structure and they’ve won nothing.
Leicester has/had a great structure and they are in the Championship.
The reason they haven’t changed managers is because their managers deliver trophies. Real and Bayern have great structures and are constantly changing managers…
NopeSo you’re saying that structure is the only factor in winning trophies?
Well, Brighton has a great structure and they’ve won nothing.
Leicester has/had a great structure and they are in the Championship.
The reason they haven’t changed managers is because their managers deliver trophies. Real and Bayern have great structures and are constantly changing managers…
Yes, and Arteta is a very good manager. If we assume that Arsenal had a good structure from when Wenger left until now, what happened with Unai Emery? Why didn’t he challenge for major trophies?
If anyone could give me a proper standout contender then I'd be on board.
If we just make a side way shift, or take a wild punt on someone then we could easily be no better off, in fact we'll be worse off as they're likely to be given at least another season come what may.
Liverpool wouldn’t have been this good no matter what structure if they hadn’t hired klopp.So you’re saying that structure is the only factor in winning trophies?
Well, Brighton has a great structure and they’ve won nothing.
Leicester has/had a great structure and they are in the Championship.
The reason they haven’t changed managers is because their managers deliver trophies. Real and Bayern have great structures and are constantly changing managers…
honestly fed up Of reading structure. As if it’s some magical thing that will get us winning again and somehow improve ten hag. It’s going to help no doubt and hopefully these guys in charge will find us the manager and players to compete at the top but the amount of emphasis put on it and reading things like let’s see ten hag with a structure is mind frazzling. It’s like the new in word for defence of crapness
That's just sheer conjecture though. We will never know.
The issue is that his one decent season was largely built on what he inherited. The style of play wasn't really much different than what came before. For his second season he decided to make changes to play more like how he obviously wants, and things have gotten significantly worse. Obviously injuries have played their part in that, but the question has to be asked whether our chaotic playstyle is contributing to those injuries. And even if not, it's not just the injuries that are causing the issues.
I agree yes, I think it probably is linked somewhat.
Injuries are constantly used as an excuse for him but it’s worth considering how the ridiculously chaotic style of play that he goes with exposes a lot of players (especially in defense) to situations (last ditch tackles) where they can get injured. This is part of the game but if we’re getting dominated for vast parts of games, these moments are just way more in number. Even with no midweek games, this utterly chaotic approach is a recipe for disaster from a fitness perspective.