Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

Would you allow ETH to manage the cup final before parting ways?

  • Yes

    Votes: 399 46.3%

  • No, get an interim now

    Votes: 462 53.7%
  • Total voters
    861
  • This poll will close: .

rimaldo

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if you ignore all the games liverpool have won against us, i think it’s clear ten hag has klopp’s number.
 

Wednesday at Stoke

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You need defenders much younger and fitter to set up at the halfway line and midfielders like Laimer to make whatever he’s trying to do to work. He also can’t be asking players to press maniacally and then not rotate the squad to keep the legs fresh.
 

KiD MoYeS

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Another absolutely chaotic performance. Nothing new. A mistake, Mainoo being class, and the fans earned us the point today. We won't get fifth and he will be gone. A crazy FA Cup final against City could be a fun end to his tenure.
 

Catalandevil

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ETH is not to blame for any of the last 3 penalties. We were winning with 10 minutes to go, it is normal to make a defensive sub. This year, individual errors have really cost us, both in the league and in Europe.

I still don't think changing the manager will solve our problems. I think we simply need to change our club's culture, and INEOS are the ones who can do that now.
 

Big Ben Foster

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Catalandevil said:
ETH is not to blame for any of the last 3 penalties. We were winning with 10 minutes to go, it is normal to make a defensive sub. This year, individual errors have really cost us, both in the league and in Europe.

I still don't think changing the manager will solve our problems. I think we simply need to change our club's culture, and INEOS are the ones who can do that now.
Click to expand...
But he gets credit for the goals that we scored due to equally chaotic circumstances as the ones we conceded? Hmm...
 

JPRouve

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Wednesday at Stoke said:
You need defenders much younger and fitter to set up at the halfway line and midfielders like Laimer to make whatever he’s trying to do to work. He also can’t be asking players to press maniacally and then not rotate the squad to keep the legs fresh.
Click to expand...
And they say there are no good alternatives to ETH this summer.:drool:
 

Jev

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Catalandevil said:
ETH is not to blame for any of the last 3 penalties.
Click to expand...
When you have a tactical setup that invites the opponents to run unpressured with the ball towards your goal, with your defenders backing off until they reach the penalty area, it’s not exactly a shock that you concede some penalties.
 

RedStarUnited

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Nas-JR said:
I'm likely to be completely wrong here, but seeing klopp's post match got me thinking. Klopp mentioned that he went crazy on the touchline because his back 4 dropped deep, causing a lot of space in the hole which lead to an attack and subsequent panic in his defence. This is essentially our most glaring problem throughout the season in that our front 5 almost ALWAYS press high all game and our back 5 ALWAYS drop. It's the same issue described by klopp but we see it for majority of games.

This lack of compactness between front and back is the root cause of all our problems; the non-existent midfield, the high number of shots conceded, the high number of cutback goals conceded, the high number of corners conceded as our back 4 is isolated in a deep block, causing many one on ones which lead to corners, even the high number of injuries due to recovery runs. I would even argue its the reason why casimero and bruno lose the ball so much because when we do recover the ball we are in our final third making the ball over the top harder to execute.

Pretty much all our regular cbs this year prefer the deep/mid block and are not front foot defenders. This includes varane, maguire, evans, and lindelof. Even if instructed to play a high starting position they'll revert to type as the game progresses. At the same time Ten Hag has clearly doubled down with a high block front 5 instead of compromising like last year because he knows this is how we should play long term and recognises that the players need to learn how to play this way and to get used to the intensity. Combine both these issues and we get this disjointed version that executes a simultaneous low block back 5 and a high block front 5. Add to that how utterly average our defenders are at passing from the back and how lacking in athleticism our midfielders and all the above issues are compounded.

What does all this mean? Well maybe, just maybe, the growing pains this team is going through (VERY Painful ones I might add) will have a positive impact long term? I mean we've played a low to mid block for the longest of times so could we really expect the way our players have been conditioned to play to change overnight? CLEARLY not. This would explain why players like rashford are struggling so badly; he lacks the intensity and intelligence to press and is lazy off the ball, but has importantly always played a different way and can't handle this year's transition.

What if, instead of getting rid of ten hag at the end of the season and start yet another 3 year project, we instead keep him, and supplement the squad with players suitable for this way of playing. I have no doubt ten hag would play the exact same system next year. If, say, we bring in two athletic cms ( as pool did with macallister and zsabozlai), a front foot cb to play along matrinez as rcb, and we get shaw back (or even malacia) and a forward in the mould of tony who can harry and press well, I think the system would come together much better and we would see far more cohesion in how we play. I look back at how badly arteta's arsenal played when the players he had didn't suit the high intensity football they now play and think maybe this applies to our situation too,

This clearly goes against conventional cafe wisdom and could all be wishful thinking but food for thought I guess.
Click to expand...
What you said would make sense if we were good on the ball/going forward. Luton have scored the same as us. So what ETH is doing is bad offensively and defensively, you play to your teams strength not to some future dream state.

And yeah I noticed what Klopp said too, he was talking about the move that lead to Mainoos goal.
 

lysglimt

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Catalandevil said:
ETH is not to blame for any of the last 3 penalties. We were winning with 10 minutes to go, it is normal to make a defensive sub. This year, individual errors have really cost us, both in the league and in Europe.

I still don't think changing the manager will solve our problems. I think we simply need to change our club's culture, and INEOS are the ones who can do that now.
Click to expand...
How convenient that you left out the Brentford-game :)
 

SteveCoppellFan

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I was very ETH in but i am starting to drift away from that opinion.

A proper manager will find a way to get performances out of his squad even when injuries etc kick in.

Just feel with have been awful all season.

I remember going into the first game of the season vrs Wolves full of optimism and thinking we could really kick on this year, I still remember how shocked I was as to how poor we played that day.

We really have not improved since that day.

I do think the squad has way too many average / poor players and that really has hindered him, most of them are just players that we just could not get rid of and he's been stuck with them.

But a top manager needs to find a way to get top performances from average players if needs be and he has not done that at all.

A part of me thinks he should get one more year with better players and see how it goes but a bigger part of me thinks we would be better getting a new manager go with these new players.

He also talks a load of nonsense in his press conferences, sounds like a man talking BS to save his job, its not a good look.
 

Ali Dia

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Nas-JR said:
I'm likely to be completely wrong here, but seeing klopp's post match got me thinking. Klopp mentioned that he went crazy on the touchline because his back 4 dropped deep, causing a lot of space in the hole which lead to an attack and subsequent panic in his defence. This is essentially our most glaring problem throughout the season in that our front 5 almost ALWAYS press high all game and our back 5 ALWAYS drop. It's the same issue described by klopp but we see it for majority of games.

This lack of compactness between front and back is the root cause of all our problems; the non-existent midfield, the high number of shots conceded, the high number of cutback goals conceded, the high number of corners conceded as our back 4 is isolated in a deep block, causing many one on ones which lead to corners, even the high number of injuries due to recovery runs. I would even argue its the reason why casimero and bruno lose the ball so much because when we do recover the ball we are in our final third making the ball over the top harder to execute.

Pretty much all our regular cbs this year prefer the deep/mid block and are not front foot defenders. This includes varane, maguire, evans, and lindelof. Even if instructed to play a high starting position they'll revert to type as the game progresses. At the same time Ten Hag has clearly doubled down with a high block front 5 instead of compromising like last year because he knows this is how we should play long term and recognises that the players need to learn how to play this way and to get used to the intensity. Combine both these issues and we get this disjointed version that executes a simultaneous low block back 5 and a high block front 5. Add to that how utterly average our defenders are at passing from the back and how lacking in athleticism our midfielders and all the above issues are compounded.

What does all this mean? Well maybe, just maybe, the growing pains this team is going through (VERY Painful ones I might add) will have a positive impact long term? I mean we've played a low to mid block for the longest of times so could we really expect the way our players have been conditioned to play to change overnight? CLEARLY not. This would explain why players like rashford are struggling so badly; he lacks the intensity and intelligence to press and is lazy off the ball, but has importantly always played a different way and can't handle this year's transition.

What if, instead of getting rid of ten hag at the end of the season and start yet another 3 year project, we instead keep him, and supplement the squad with players suitable for this way of playing. I have no doubt ten hag would play the exact same system next year. If, say, we bring in two athletic cms ( as pool did with macallister and zsabozlai), a front foot cb to play along matrinez as rcb, and we get shaw back (or even malacia) and a forward in the mould of tony who can harry and press well, I think the system would come together much better and we would see far more cohesion in how we play. I look back at how badly arteta's arsenal played when the players he had didn't suit the high intensity football they now play and think maybe this applies to our situation too,

This clearly goes against conventional cafe wisdom and could all be wishful thinking but food for thought I guess.
Click to expand...
Good post!
 

KiD MoYeS

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VP89 said:
Inverted fullback(s) is proven to work well
Click to expand...
It does have its uses, particularly in defensive setups against forwards that cut in. Ten Hag's setup is pure chaos though and does not make much sense - he is not blameless for situations leading to conceding penalties and late goals.
 

Berbaclass

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Nas-JR said:
I'm likely to be completely wrong here, but seeing klopp's post match got me thinking. Klopp mentioned that he went crazy on the touchline because his back 4 dropped deep, causing a lot of space in the hole which lead to an attack and subsequent panic in his defence. This is essentially our most glaring problem throughout the season in that our front 5 almost ALWAYS press high all game and our back 5 ALWAYS drop. It's the same issue described by klopp but we see it for majority of games.

This lack of compactness between front and back is the root cause of all our problems; the non-existent midfield, the high number of shots conceded, the high number of cutback goals conceded, the high number of corners conceded as our back 4 is isolated in a deep block, causing many one on ones which lead to corners, even the high number of injuries due to recovery runs. I would even argue its the reason why casimero and bruno lose the ball so much because when we do recover the ball we are in our final third making the ball over the top harder to execute.

Pretty much all our regular cbs this year prefer the deep/mid block and are not front foot defenders. This includes varane, maguire, evans, and lindelof. Even if instructed to play a high starting position they'll revert to type as the game progresses. At the same time Ten Hag has clearly doubled down with a high block front 5 instead of compromising like last year because he knows this is how we should play long term and recognises that the players need to learn how to play this way and to get used to the intensity. Combine both these issues and we get this disjointed version that executes a simultaneous low block back 5 and a high block front 5. Add to that how utterly average our defenders are at passing from the back and how lacking in athleticism our midfielders and all the above issues are compounded.

What does all this mean? Well maybe, just maybe, the growing pains this team is going through (VERY Painful ones I might add) will have a positive impact long term? I mean we've played a low to mid block for the longest of times so could we really expect the way our players have been conditioned to play to change overnight? CLEARLY not. This would explain why players like rashford are struggling so badly; he lacks the intensity and intelligence to press and is lazy off the ball, but has importantly always played a different way and can't handle this year's transition.

What if, instead of getting rid of ten hag at the end of the season and start yet another 3 year project, we instead keep him, and supplement the squad with players suitable for this way of playing. I have no doubt ten hag would play the exact same system next year. If, say, we bring in two athletic cms ( as pool did with macallister and zsabozlai), a front foot cb to play along matrinez as rcb, and we get shaw back (or even malacia) and a forward in the mould of tony who can harry and press well, I think the system would come together much better and we would see far more cohesion in how we play. I look back at how badly arteta's arsenal played when the players he had didn't suit the high intensity football they now play and think maybe this applies to our situation too,

This clearly goes against conventional cafe wisdom and could all be wishful thinking but food for thought I guess.
Click to expand...
You've summarised things pretty well. Good post.
 

VP89

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KiD MoYeS said:
It does have its uses, particularly in defensive setups against forwards that cut in. Ten Hag's setup is pure chaos though and does not make much sense - he is not blameless for situations leading to conceding penalties and late goals.
Click to expand...
I think one inverted full back does make a lot of sense against some bigger sides. The penalties that were given away was just bullshit brainfarts. It had nothing to do with the players being in an inverted role. Pure full backs have been in equally compromising positioning and had the common sense to not do daft things like Dalot/AWB did.
 

sglowrider

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Jev said:
When you have a tactical setup that invites the opponents to run unpressured with the ball towards your goal, with your defenders backing off until they reach the penalty area, it’s not exactly a shock that you concede some penalties.
Click to expand...
ETH needs time to twerk this new footballing philosophy.

We had the tiki-taka, geggenpress. -- ETH will be known as the founder of the cream puff philosophy. Hard on the outside, and squishy soft inside.

A setup that invites opponents into the middle to shoot at high volume -- whilst creating low volume opportunities and even lower numbers of goals for yourself.

The high risk, low return football.
 

git_united

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Jev said:
When you have a tactical setup that invites the opponents to run unpressured with the ball towards your goal, with your defenders backing off until they reach the penalty area, it’s not exactly a shock that you concede some penalties.
Click to expand...
Wait what? The manager isn’t playing a video game. Also, he can’t control Casemiro lunging in madly and getting done on a simple 1-2.
 

GreatDane

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0 shots against our biggest rivals after 45 mins.
At home!
feck this and people thinking its ok.
 

stevoc

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wolvored said:
This. Its baffling.
Click to expand...
It shouldn't be at this stage, Ten Hag just takes dislikes to certain players for periods. Varane managed to get on his shit list earlier hin the season, he even spouted bullshit that he couldn't play LCB to justify it. Who knows what's going on behind the scenes with Amad.
 

acid_fuji

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Nas-JR said:
I'm likely to be completely wrong here, but seeing klopp's post match got me thinking. Klopp mentioned that he went crazy on the touchline because his back 4 dropped deep, causing a lot of space in the hole which lead to an attack and subsequent panic in his defence. This is essentially our most glaring problem throughout the season in that our front 5 almost ALWAYS press high all game and our back 5 ALWAYS drop. It's the same issue described by klopp but we see it for majority of games.

This lack of compactness between front and back is the root cause of all our problems; the non-existent midfield, the high number of shots conceded, the high number of cutback goals conceded, the high number of corners conceded as our back 4 is isolated in a deep block, causing many one on ones which lead to corners, even the high number of injuries due to recovery runs. I would even argue its the reason why casimero and bruno lose the ball so much because when we do recover the ball we are in our final third making the ball over the top harder to execute.

Pretty much all our regular cbs this year prefer the deep/mid block and are not front foot defenders. This includes varane, maguire, evans, and lindelof. Even if instructed to play a high starting position they'll revert to type as the game progresses. At the same time Ten Hag has clearly doubled down with a high block front 5 instead of compromising like last year because he knows this is how we should play long term and recognises that the players need to learn how to play this way and to get used to the intensity. Combine both these issues and we get this disjointed version that executes a simultaneous low block back 5 and a high block front 5. Add to that how utterly average our defenders are at passing from the back and how lacking in athleticism our midfielders and all the above issues are compounded.

What does all this mean? Well maybe, just maybe, the growing pains this team is going through (VERY Painful ones I might add) will have a positive impact long term? I mean we've played a low to mid block for the longest of times so could we really expect the way our players have been conditioned to play to change overnight? CLEARLY not. This would explain why players like rashford are struggling so badly; he lacks the intensity and intelligence to press and is lazy off the ball, but has importantly always played a different way and can't handle this year's transition.

What if, instead of getting rid of ten hag at the end of the season and start yet another 3 year project, we instead keep him, and supplement the squad with players suitable for this way of playing. I have no doubt ten hag would play the exact same system next year. If, say, we bring in two athletic cms ( as pool did with macallister and zsabozlai), a front foot cb to play along matrinez as rcb, and we get shaw back (or even malacia) and a forward in the mould of tony who can harry and press well, I think the system would come together much better and we would see far more cohesion in how we play. I look back at how badly arteta's arsenal played when the players he had didn't suit the high intensity football they now play and think maybe this applies to our situation too,

This clearly goes against conventional cafe wisdom and could all be wishful thinking but food for thought I guess.
Click to expand...
This is an excellent analysis. However, one thing I don't understand is why when this (the gap in midfield) was pointed out towards him he didn't try to explain that somehow. I recall I read or heard somewhere (could talk of the devils) that they saw once that Ten Hag was shouting at defenders to not go that deep. What he's saying on the conference baffles me at most. He says the performance was good when this was tragic stuff.
 

SSSSnake

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Any reason Big Sam was in the box with Jim? Maybe a care taker manager job for big Sam until the end of the season?
 

DWelbz19

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Wednesday at Stoke said:
You need defenders much younger and fitter to set up at the halfway line and midfielders like Laimer to make whatever he’s trying to do to work. He also can’t be asking players to press maniacally and then not rotate the squad to keep the legs fresh.
Click to expand...
The style of football he wants to play (from what we are physically seeing from us in front of our eyes, not his weird press conferences where he talks in an alternate universe) just isn’t possible unless we sign an entirely new team. And that includes replacing pretty much all of the players he’s signed too.
 

Longshanks

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Catalandevil said:
ETH is not to blame for any of the last 3 penalties. We were winning with 10 minutes to go, it is normal to make a defensive sub. This year, individual errors have really cost us, both in the league and in Europe.

I still don't think changing the manager will solve our problems. I think we simply need to change our club's culture, and INEOS are the ones who can do that now.
Click to expand...
Not directly no, but if you concede that many shots, that much pressure that many touches in the box. Than you run the risk of those sort of things happening.
 

Big Ben Foster

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SSSSnake said:
Any reason Big Sam was in the box with Jim? Maybe a care taker manager job for big Sam until the end of the season?
Click to expand...
I wouldn't read into it. Big Sam was also seen at a few games with SAF, wasn't he? I believe they're close friends.
 

Donut

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It makes me physically angry reading posts how he’ll come good and he just needs time. The guy is a stubborn moron and we need to get rid of him before Mainoo and others develop PTSD.
 

frostbite

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These chaotic performances will give us wins sometimes, like vs Liverpool in the cup, and sometimes they bring loses, like in the CL games. It is gambling, it is not a style for a team that wants to be consistently at top of the league.
 

BenitoSTARR

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Donut said:
It makes me physically angry reading posts how he’ll come good and he just needs time. The guy is a stubborn moron and we need to get rid of him before Mainoo and others develop PTSD.
Click to expand...
Seek help if this is truly how you feel that’s not a good place to be at.
 

Unam333

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Catalandevil said:
ETH is not to blame for any of the last 3 penalties. We were winning with 10 minutes to go, it is normal to make a defensive sub. This year, individual errors have really cost us, both in the league and in Europe.

I still don't think changing the manager will solve our problems. I think we simply need to change our club's culture, and INEOS are the ones who can do that now.
Click to expand...
I agree. I would stick with Ten Hag and give him the first three months of the new season, but I'm in the minority.
 

Ali Dia

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Wednesday at Stoke said:
You need defenders much younger and fitter to set up at the halfway line and midfielders like Laimer to make whatever he’s trying to do to work. He also can’t be asking players to press maniacally and then not rotate the squad to keep the legs fresh.
Click to expand...
All of this is on the money. A natural LB doesn’t give that peno away either. If we are going to press at least fecking rotate. Also dropping Antony for Rashford was stupid. I don’t get a lot of stuff the manager is trying. He probably should be more pragmatic but there was a good post earlier more or less saying that he is setting us up to play direct pressing football knowing that we are going to have growing pains and we will drop points. It’s a good way to see which players are going to be up for it and who won’t. It’s a years experience of playing in the style he wants even if it doesn’t suit all the players we currently have.
 
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