I can't believe people are still using the "time + patience = SAF" argument
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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Well maybe you have to give time and patience to find out?
Would you be posting on redcafe if you won the lottery?
I used to have full faith in Ten Hag but that is now starting to disappear:
All good managers have a known, well defined, tactical setup that even when key players are missing, the effectiveness is less apparent but the play style is still there and evident.
You have teams like Swansea under Rogers who were able to dominate possession away at Old Trafford through their play style and possession orientated football.
Barcelona for example made players like Javier Mascherano, who was never a great player on the ball, look more than competent under possession because their structure, build up patterns and midfield on the ball and off the ball movements were drilled to a tee.
Right now, we do not have any of that cohesiveness and rely on our best players being available in order to play even anything remotely to the tune of the football we want to play.
All good managers have a known, well defined, tactical setup that even when key players are missing, the effectiveness is less apparent but the play style is still there and evident.
You have teams like Swansea under Rogers who were able to dominate possession away at Old Trafford through their play style and possession orientated football.
Barcelona for example made players like Javier Mascherano, who was never a great player on the ball, look more than competent under possession because their structure, build up patterns and midfield on the ball and off the ball movements were drilled to a tee.
Right now, we do not have any of that cohesiveness and rely on our best players being available in order to play even anything remotely to the tune of the football we want to play.
It is even worse than that. Many have relaxed that equation to "time + patience = Arteta".
2 years is more than 99% of managers would get while delivering what we've seen this season.
That used to be sarcasm
I think there are lot of managers out there who would be doing a lot better by playing to the strengths of the players they have. I also think that slows down evolution towards the team we want to be. This is the pain we have to go through. It's growing pains.
How many are coming in on the back of two decades of embedded root and branch mismanagement by the Glazers?
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...hambles-at-manchester-united-is-unsustainable
Elite-level players are used to being put under pressure, they’re used to being closed down, they’re used to opponents pressing. Space alarms them. It makes them uneasy. It makes them think too much.
Amid the cavernous vaults of United’s midfield, their fears and doubts echo unnervingly. And so they miss. They can’t handle it when it’s too easy for them. Forget positionism, relationism, counter-pressing and the rest: this is the future. Ten Hag has invented inverted pressing.
That's it. He's cooked.
Elite-level players are used to being put under pressure, they’re used to being closed down, they’re used to opponents pressing. Space alarms them. It makes them uneasy. It makes them think too much.
Amid the cavernous vaults of United’s midfield, their fears and doubts echo unnervingly. And so they miss. They can’t handle it when it’s too easy for them. Forget positionism, relationism, counter-pressing and the rest: this is the future. Ten Hag has invented inverted pressing.
That's it. He's cooked.
Had the unfortunate experience of watching the game with an Arsenal fan but this point was raised during the conversation. Arteta for all intents and purpose is firmly coming along as one of the best coaches in world football. Before the the new year the fans were getting vocal against Saka and his lack of output, bemoaning the need for a number 9 and the criticism towards Edu for not reinforcing that position. New year arrives and all of sudden they've scored a plethora of between the front-three, they've now got the best GD in the league.
So it's almost as if Arsenal reinstalled their defense tactically for the first half of the season and then made another adjustment to accommodate the success of their attack last season into the the latter half of this current campaign. Many have assimilated that the example with Mikel is time equivalates success but the reality is in the last 24 months Arteta has created one of the best teams in Europe both in respect of performances and results (something no United manager has accomplished in ten years). It's only his 5th season in management as an inexperienced coach he's demonstrating a far higher level then anything Eth has yet to illustrate in a far more competitive environment.
Goodness
Serious lack of options out there has me feeling like erik might still be here at start of next season. They might give them another go with a proper structure above him. Either way the proper structure needs a defensive midfielder that can get around the park and leave mainoo do his thing.
0 shots at half time playing Liverpool? At home.
Fan for more than 30 years, we are a joke now.
Fan for more than 30 years, we are a joke now.
I just don't know, it's strange. But there is a crazy like "balls out" way we play.
It's like no matter what.. we are man utd, ill die on this sword!
We aren't growing.
This is at best stagnating pains and more than likely regressing pains. We were a much, much better side under Solskjaer. Our 2020 team would batter us.
It's utter chaos ball. It's not sustainable or a winning formula for a team wanting to achieve. It's also oddly not enjoyable? You never know what you're going to get, I don't trust this group to hold on in games or not make game ruining brainless decisions.
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0 shots up until the 50th minute, mate. At home. Then, the first shot comes from a mistake, from the middle of the pitch, and we score, and that's the ETH process we should trust in. And give him another year.. ffs
Admittedly didn't watch the game as it was on too early in the morning here in New Zealand but stats like this is ridiculous especially for a game of this magnitude.
I'm in the 'We need to rip it all up and start fresh with a new manager and get rid of most of these players' camp.
Yes this is true. They were a somewhat badly coached counter attacking side that would never win anything though, no matter how long you waited.
I don't think ETH will survive the summer, for the record. I just wish he would.
Yeah but to be fair we had some really fun vibes for 15 minutes after they made a mistake and we had 2 moments of magic. Stop moaning gosh
Slows down evolution, jesus christ. What freaking evolution are some of you seeing exactly?
Just feels like waiting for a moment, which we got two today so feels pretty good. I'm really surprised we couldn't even counter for the first half though.
That team generally looked like the better team against a lot of teams in the league with Fred and McTominay in midfield, Maguire and Lindelof at centre back and always looked a threat to score. If that side was badly coached then this one must literally sit around and eat cheese strings for 2 hours every training session.
Maybe that's just what it is Chaos Ball, but i also think that it's Balls Outs football really brave - EtH has not given an inch. It's madness..but its throwing brown stuff to a wall and not cleaning it up
So so true, poor Erik
If I walk into a boxing ring against Anthony Joshua with no head guard and keep my hands down to show how tough I am, I am not brave, I am stupid. My chaos boxing doesn't get credit it gets concussions.
If we had, say, Rice and de Jong and a decent CD partner for Martinez and our whole team fit (or strength in depth more realistically), I think we would be title challengers. We're not that far off but a miss is as good as a mile. As long as we leave acres of space to stroll around midfield, give the ball away cheaply and don't press it back, and as long as we defend too deep (because we only have those kind of CDs) and still attack high, we're obviously gonna look like a clown show.
Sacking ETH won't fix any of that.
You can't correlate the two, that is a single player sport.
You could have said - if I went against Djokovic with a wooden spoon.
This is a team sport, I just feel like he is not stupid. He 100% watches the games as we do, it's weird..but he seems to be forcing this team to play this way.
Just watching ESPN "he should be embarrass" - I'm not, EtH has completely put this on our players.
Making the tactical decisions about our team is ultimately not a team decision. It is an individual decision and he is making kamikaze decisions constantly.
It is idiotic and not leading to success over the season. It is not brave.
Mainoo.
No it's not idiotic, it's someone willing to do it. Today you've seen? What?
Player downing tool?
On MOTD why is EtH not punishing lack of desire, because it hasn't worked in the past. See Anthony Martial, Jones or etc..
The guy just needs time... a proper structure above him... more money to buy new players... the players he's already bought to come good... Rashford to not be sad... Our players to not be injured all the time... Opponents to stop taking advantage of all the space in the midfield we give them... Old Trafford to stop leaking... Coaching lessons...
then he'll come good. Fergie did it, Arteta is doing it... Let him cook.
then he'll come good. Fergie did it, Arteta is doing it... Let him cook.
It is idiotic because it is getting less than the sum of a teams parts out of them which is the opposite job of a head coach.
I have no idea what you are talking about re Phil Jones and Match of the day.
His copium is out of this world.
You forgot to mention teams to stop pressing us in defence, sit deep against our attackers but then run forwards when we want to play a ball in behind and for referees to allow us to make fouls in the box. Process.
I think what's important to point out about Ten Hag, is that I do believe he is a good manager, but he isn't a good manager for us.
That is not to say that he won't go on to do good things at another club, and I am in no way discrediting his past achievements at Ajax, but he's just not the guy for us.
Match after match our performances are atrocious, and that's being polite!
For us to have faced the most attempts on our goal across the Top 5 leagues in Europe in 2024 (https://www.90min.com/posts/most-shots-conceded-2024-ten-hag-defends-man-utd-record - and that was before the 28 we faced today against Liverpool), says everything you need to know about what we serve up week after week, month after month.
We only have to look back to the opening game of the season against Wolves when all the warning signs were there, now fast forward eight months to the present day and nothing has changed - our midfield continually gets bypassed game after game and it is totally unacceptable.
The buck stops with the manager.
Simple. As. That.
That is not to say that he won't go on to do good things at another club, and I am in no way discrediting his past achievements at Ajax, but he's just not the guy for us.
Match after match our performances are atrocious, and that's being polite!
For us to have faced the most attempts on our goal across the Top 5 leagues in Europe in 2024 (https://www.90min.com/posts/most-shots-conceded-2024-ten-hag-defends-man-utd-record - and that was before the 28 we faced today against Liverpool), says everything you need to know about what we serve up week after week, month after month.
We only have to look back to the opening game of the season against Wolves when all the warning signs were there, now fast forward eight months to the present day and nothing has changed - our midfield continually gets bypassed game after game and it is totally unacceptable.
The buck stops with the manager.
Simple. As. That.
What's he showing to people like you? We've been shit all season. Moreover, we have been regressing since the league cup. I beseech you, what do you see on the pitch that shows he deserves a chance?
We really do. He has to go now.